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h2omike
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Joined: 24 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:03 am Post subject: |
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| Brandon will be fine, his floor is a good defensive role player and ceiling a very good starter to possible star. Depends on if he can learn to shoot in game situations at or near a Kuzma level. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| awntawn wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | epak wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Depends. In that scenario do the Lakers win by ~30? |
It won’t matter in this thread |
That would be pretty haterish then.
If your team wins by 30, and BI was a +30 on a night he goes 2-8 I would think most logical people wouldn't be too upset. Especially since 2 of his teammates got triple doubles.
I disagree with your premise. I think it would matter. |
Literally every game the Lakers have won this year, if BI had less than 20 points and/or shot less than 50% from the field, this thread was still calling him a terrible fit with Lebron who should be benched and/or traded.
It's been so toxic and unbearable to the point where even after wins, I'm hesitant to check this thread this year
Hell it's so toxic that if BI has a good game, but Kuz doesn't, they're saying BI and Kuz can't play together and so BI needs to be benched because he's playing well at the expense of Kuz.
The bottom line is that Laker fans need a scapegoat, plain and simple. Every year. Last few years it was Julius and DLo. In the Kobe/Pau days, it was Pau, and before the Pau trade, it was LO.
Laker fans always feel that the team should be at a championship level regardless of the talent on the roster, and the fact that it isn't is always "someone's fault". The solution that dumb fans always resort to is getting rid of the guy who isn't performing up to the level of being the "missing piece" to a championship level, no matter how unrealistic that expectation may be. Despite having the first winning season in god knows how long, the Lakers are still a bonafide 2nd all-NBA player away from being a championship contender. Since Ingram isn't that, apparently he's the "reason" for all of the team's problems, and so he's gotta go. It's stupid. |
We are 18-11. People are really looking for a scapegoat?
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| AirTupac wrote: | | Seeing Hart get abused just reminds me how much we need BI back in the starting lineup |
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AY2043
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Unrelated, but holy crap has Tyson been huge for us |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Overreliance on points and FG% is the argument for Ingram, not against him. |
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PHILosophize
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: |
Unrelated, but holy crap has Tyson been huge for us |
He's basically doing what JaVale's done, but better. Guys like him never win the award, but he's one of the best 6th men in the league. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: |
Unrelated, but holy crap has Tyson been huge for us |
Tyson is a monster without the highlights.
Hart didn't even have the greatest game yesterday, but having just a floor spacer in that starting lineup that plays solid defense goes miles. It's kind of weird watching Hart tone down his drives to the hoop (because LeBron, Kuzma, and even Lonzo are doing that now) and settle for more perimeter shots. He's had to reign it a lot of offensive aggression attacking the hoop.
I do wonder if that adds to his frustration. He's starting, but his fit isn't as seamless, even if it is wonderfully positive.
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Overreliance on points and FG% is the argument for Ingram, not against him. |
What about defense, strength of schedule, sample size for a kid still building chemistry with the starting lineup. All I know is this thread would’ve been unbearable if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field and you just proved my point. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Overreliance on points and FG% is the argument for Ingram, not against him. |
What about defense, strength of schedule, sample size for a kid still building chemistry with the starting lineup. All I know is this thread would’ve been unbearable if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field and you just proved my point. |
He’s not the only one who is having to develop chemistry. They all are and he’s consistently looked like he’s having more trouble than the others. |
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Overreliance on points and FG% is the argument for Ingram, not against him. |
What about defense, strength of schedule, sample size for a kid still building chemistry with the starting lineup. All I know is this thread would’ve been unbearable if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field and you just proved my point. |
He’s not the only one who is having to develop chemistry. They all are and he’s consistently looked like he’s having more trouble than the others. |
If you say that about BI then I can’t imagine what you thought of Ball before the last game. And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:22 am Post subject: |
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^What about it?
I love Ingram, but that net rating spread.... includes defense as a unit too. The Lakers DRtg has been going up, without him on the floor.
In December, the Lakers have the #4 best net rating at 7.9.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Overreliance on points and FG% is the argument for Ingram, not against him. |
What about defense, strength of schedule, sample size for a kid still building chemistry with the starting lineup. All I know is this thread would’ve been unbearable if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field and you just proved my point. |
He’s not the only one who is having to develop chemistry. They all are and he’s consistently looked like he’s having more trouble than the others. |
If you say that about BI then I can’t imagine what you thought of Ball before the last game. And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
And if you compare the 5 man lineups it’s obvious. I think Ball has fit much better although he is also taking some time to adjust. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
The bolded statement is entirely false.
Actually, even with the suspension, he's had THE MOST minutes with the starting lineup, and even the 3rd most minutes played together when switched out McGee for Chandler.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612747
+100 minutes of gametime man.
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | ^What about it?
I love Ingram, but that net rating spread.... includes defense as a unit too. The Lakers DRtg has been going up, without him on the floor.
In December, the Lakers have the #4 best net rating at 7.9. |
Net rating spread?
BI had the best rating among the starters before he went down to injury. We’ve played mediocre teams since he’s gone down so yes the point differential will be up since we’ve had a couple of blowouts. My point was BI wouldn’t have gotten a pass going 2 for 8 from the field no matter how well the team played. It’s just the truth.
Some folks even went to the extent of rooting for the team to lose in order to get him out of the starting lineup lol I for one can’t wait until he comes and gets his spot back. We have the whole season for them to incorporate BI into how the team wants to play, maybe Luke should have him set more screens for Lebron like Lonzo I order to get those two going from there. Other tactics can be utilized besides sending him to the bench, including staggering their minutes, which Luke started doing before he got injured. |
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
The bolded statement is entirely false.
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You probably need to get your eyes checked. I said GAMES not mins. |
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: |
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I haven't been seeing net ratings shoved down our throats for the last 30 pages, can someone continue to post it on every page so we never forget.
Maybe give us a pop quiz on it so we never forget
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | ^What about it?
I love Ingram, but that net rating spread.... includes defense as a unit too. The Lakers DRtg has been going up, without him on the floor.
In December, the Lakers have the #4 best net rating at 7.9. |
Net rating spread?
BI had the best rating among the starters before he went down to injury. We’ve played mediocre teams since he’s gone down so yes the point differential will be up since we’ve had a couple of blowouts. My point was BI wouldn’t have gotten a pass going 2 for 8 from the field no matter how well the team played. It’s just the truth.
Some folks even went to the extent of rooting for the team to lose in order to get him out of the starting lineup lol I for one can’t wait until he comes and gets his spot back. We have the whole season for them to incorporate BI into how the team wants to play, maybe Luke should have him set more screens for Lebron like Lonzo I order to get those two going from there. Other tactics can be utilized besides sending him to the bench, including staggering their minutes, which Luke started doing before he got injured. |
Depends on how you define mediocre man. The only bad team is Phoenix. I'd consider Houston and San Antonio playoff teams even though they're not in it. They're still veteran playoff teams.
Memphis? Playoffs.
Miami? #9 in the Eastern Conference
Charlotte? Playoffs.
And no, I don't think you need to play BI a full season for integration. Everyone keeps trying to change him one way or another since he became a Laker. But it's not a guarantee that simplifying his game is what's best for the team.
Even when Josh Hart has a bad game, like yesterday, the Lakers rolled Charlotte and it wasn't close. Did defense suffer? No. That was arguably the best defensive quarter of the season. Did you miss Ingram then? I didn't.
Some guys fit more naturally than others. So what. Pau was seamless when he was a Laker. Kobe needed to be fit into what the Lakers had to do within the context of the triangle. The difference is, that's Kobe.
There will be a point when the Lakers will need Ingram's defensive length and Iso abilities And/Or he changes his shot selection and approach to the game. In the mean time, there's absolutely nothing wrong in saying that BI doesn't fit with the starting lineup AND that BI is a highly talented player worth waiting for.
Both can be true. But there's no need to spread false information about BI playing less time with the starting lineup. Dude had 100+ minutes over the #2 lineup. That's practically 3 games worth, even with the suspensions.
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
The bolded statement is entirely false.
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You probably need to get your eyes checked. I said GAMES not mins. |
Funny.
Link says 18 games. That's the most.
Not 15 games. That's second most.
But sure, I need to get my eyes checked. Thanks for clicking.
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
The bolded statement is entirely false.
Actually, even with the suspension, he's had THE MOST minutes with the starting lineup, and even the 3rd most minutes played together when switched out McGee for Chandler.
https://stats.nba.com/lineups/advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612747
+100 minutes of gametime man. |
I don't see how this proves jack (bleep). Ball and Kuzma are in both those lineups, and also in the 2nd most, 4th most, 5th most, 6th most and 7th most minutes played.
and if you're just talking bout starting lineups then why mention the third one? Both McGee, Kuzma and Lonzo are in the most played lineups right there with Ingram but also in the 2nd most minutes played lineups.
So out of the group, Ingram has played the least minutes next to Lebron. He wasn't lying or trying to make up anything, you just didnt understand him.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:45 am Post subject: |
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| BigBoi wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | ^What about it?
I love Ingram, but that net rating spread.... includes defense as a unit too. The Lakers DRtg has been going up, without him on the floor.
In December, the Lakers have the #4 best net rating at 7.9. |
Net rating spread?
BI had the best rating among the starters before he went down to injury. We’ve played mediocre teams since he’s gone down so yes the point differential will be up since we’ve had a couple of blowouts. My point was BI wouldn’t have gotten a pass going 2 for 8 from the field no matter how well the team played. It’s just the truth.
Some folks even went to the extent of rooting for the team to lose in order to get him out of the starting lineup lol I for one can’t wait until he comes and gets his spot back. We have the whole season for them to incorporate BI into how the team wants to play, maybe Luke should have him set more screens for Lebron like Lonzo I order to get those two going from there. Other tactics can be utilized besides sending him to the bench, including staggering their minutes, which Luke started doing before he got injured. |
And people here definitely aren't rooting for the team to lose so they can post "this is why we need Ingram back", right?
We do need Ingram back and getting minutes, but our best starting lineup doesn't include him. |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Quote: | | And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
The bolded statement is entirely false.
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You probably need to get your eyes checked. I said GAMES not mins. |
Funny.
Link says 18 games. That's the most.
Not 15 games. That's second most.
But sure, I need to get my eyes checked. Thanks for clicking. |
not your eyes but maybe something else.
He said BI is playing the least amount with Lebron James, so if all of McGee/Kuzma/Ball are in the most played while Ingram is only in one of the two, what does that say about who played the least next to Lebron?
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Villain6Activated
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | ^What about it?
I love Ingram, but that net rating spread.... includes defense as a unit too. The Lakers DRtg has been going up, without him on the floor.
In December, the Lakers have the #4 best net rating at 7.9. |
Net rating spread?
BI had the best rating among the starters before he went down to injury. We’ve played mediocre teams since he’s gone down so yes the point differential will be up since we’ve had a couple of blowouts. My point was BI wouldn’t have gotten a pass going 2 for 8 from the field no matter how well the team played. It’s just the truth.
Some folks even went to the extent of rooting for the team to lose in order to get him out of the starting lineup lol I for one can’t wait until he comes and gets his spot back. We have the whole season for them to incorporate BI into how the team wants to play, maybe Luke should have him set more screens for Lebron like Lonzo I order to get those two going from there. Other tactics can be utilized besides sending him to the bench, including staggering their minutes, which Luke started doing before he got injured. |
And people here definitely aren't rooting for the team to lose so they can post "this is why we need Ingram back", right?
We do need Ingram back and getting minutes, but our best starting lineup doesn't include him. |
show me the people that are rooting for the team to lose to prove we need Ingram, because I can provide direct quotes from this thread in the last 5 games that prove the opposite.
Go ahead, please.
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BigBoi
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | BigBoi wrote: | | h2omike wrote: | | I think the answer is BI is the better defensive fit at sg and Hart is mostly better as the offensive sg. |
Can you imagine what this thread would be like if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field? |
Overreliance on points and FG% is the argument for Ingram, not against him. |
What about defense, strength of schedule, sample size for a kid still building chemistry with the starting lineup. All I know is this thread would’ve been unbearable if BI had gone 2 for 8 from the field and you just proved my point. |
He’s not the only one who is having to develop chemistry. They all are and he’s consistently looked like he’s having more trouble than the others. |
If you say that about BI then I can’t imagine what you thought of Ball before the last game. And btw BI has played the least amount of games with the starting lineup/ Lebron James. Fact is if you compare the 2 man lineups with the starters he is not having anymore trouble than others, that’s just false. |
And if you compare the 5 man lineups it’s obvious. I think Ball has fit much better although he is also taking some time to adjust. |
I’ll wait for a much larger sample size after they’ve worked out the kinks of their offense and with more games under their belt before I jump into any conclusions.
The lineup of Chandler, Kuzma, Lebron, Ingram and Hart has a NetRtg of 52.9 for example, you don’t hear anyone saying bench Lonzo and start that lineup. How about McGee who is a net negative with almost any 2 man combination you pair him with, no one is saying he should be benched. And here you have people clamoring for BI to lose his starting spot while he’s out due to injury, that is just bush league in my opinion totally classless. |
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Mike@LG
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| Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | So out of the group, Ingram has played the least minutes next to Lebron. He wasn't lying or trying to make up anything, you just didnt understand him.
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Maybe he should clarify that he's 5th in minutes next to LeBron and not include the starting lineup too. Because that's what makes it false.
This isn't a chemistry issue. It's a decision-making/shot selection issue.
His replacement, Josh Hart, played 110 less minutes next to LeBron James right up until Ingram got hurt.
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Last edited by Mike@LG on Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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