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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:28 am Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Unfortunate as it is to say, if we didn't have LeBron and had kept the roster we had last year, it probably would be. |
And be another lottery team?
The real "problem" is not that we got LBJ, but that we couldn't get a 2nd star next to him. PG13 alongside LBJ would have been fantastic, and even if LBJ went down, our current young core + PG13 would be better than 4-7. |
We wouldn't have been a lotto team... maybe PG comes if LBJ wasn't here...
Maybe we resign Brook and Julius.
We would have been the young core plus 76 million worth of FAs... which would be much better than 4-7 |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
It isn’t fair to Ingram to compare the two _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:36 am Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | Quote: | Unfortunate as it is to say, if we didn't have LeBron and had kept the roster we had last year, it probably would be. |
And be another lottery team?
The real "problem" is not that we got LBJ, but that we couldn't get a 2nd star next to him. PG13 alongside LBJ would have been fantastic, and even if LBJ went down, our current young core + PG13 would be better than 4-7. |
We wouldn't have been a lotto team... maybe PG comes if LBJ wasn't here...
Maybe we resign Brook and Julius.
We would have been the young core plus 76 million worth of FAs... which would be much better than 4-7 |
But PG didn't. And we didn't re-sign those guys. There's no guarantees that we just punt 2 more max deals. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Sentient Meat Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014 Posts: 12978
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
It isn’t fair to Ingram to compare the two |
No one's saying that Ingram is going to be Giannis.
We're saying he might be a good player worth keeping.
He can't help it if his stats compare favorably to a 21 year old version of Giannis.
Ingram will never have his athleticism.
But maybe Giannis will never be able to shoot from distance.
If Ingram can narrow the distance of efficiency at the rim... he can become more of a Duncan type to Giannis's Shaq. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:41 am Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | After a 4-7 stretch, pretty incredible that folks are still assigning LBJ the blame.
He plays "PF" at the end of most games. He just seems to not want to start there. Why is that such a point of contention? |
Ingram>Lakers |
Kinda crazy but it seems like some feel this way in this thread |
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awntawn Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016 Posts: 953
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:52 am Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | After a 4-7 stretch, pretty incredible that folks are still assigning LBJ the blame.
He plays "PF" at the end of most games. He just seems to not want to start there. Why is that such a point of contention? |
Ingram>Lakers |
Kinda crazy but it seems like some feel this way in this thread |
I mean... it's the Brandon Ingram thread |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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awntawn wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | After a 4-7 stretch, pretty incredible that folks are still assigning LBJ the blame.
He plays "PF" at the end of most games. He just seems to not want to start there. Why is that such a point of contention? |
Ingram>Lakers |
Kinda crazy but it seems like some feel this way in this thread |
I mean... it's the Brandon Ingram thread |
Not blaming Lebron for anything BI related.
But is it true that Lebron plays the 4 to close out most games? Who plays center? |
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awntawn Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016 Posts: 953
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:58 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | awntawn wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | After a 4-7 stretch, pretty incredible that folks are still assigning LBJ the blame.
He plays "PF" at the end of most games. He just seems to not want to start there. Why is that such a point of contention? |
Ingram>Lakers |
Kinda crazy but it seems like some feel this way in this thread |
I mean... it's the Brandon Ingram thread |
Not blaming Lebron for anything BI related.
But is it true that Lebron plays the 4 to close out most games? Who plays center? |
There is no "most games" for this team, we have no consistent closing lineup with or without LeBron. |
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Jack's Room Starting Rotation
Joined: 24 Nov 2018 Posts: 316
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
Giannis and Ingram are nowhere near the same in advanced stats when comparing those years.
https://imgur.com/WnR9lvs
Giannis bests Ingram in every single advanced metric: Ortg, Drtg, TS%, Win Shares, DPM, BPM, VORP. Hell, Giannis even trounces him in PER, and no one even really uses that stat anymore. |
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Lazlow Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jan 2019 Posts: 345 Location: Cypress, California
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram stans will probably be in denial for another 2-3 years minimum. They will continue to find player comparisons at each age that made the jump. Continue to beat the drum about his length and these flashes of what he could be until he's like 25.
He isn't that guy, and he never will be. Lakers get another star and you need a #3 option? It's Kuzma, not Ingram. Ball could probably fit in as a roleplayer, or something. If Ingram is not coming off the bench, he really shouldn't be on this team anymore. Dude only takes and makes jumpshots when we have large leads. Give Nicolas Batum 14 shots a game and he would put up the similar, if not better stats. That's all Ingram could ever hope to be. Anyone with a sensible eye test can see this. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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Jack's Room wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
Giannis and Ingram are nowhere near the same in advanced stats when comparing those years.
https://imgur.com/WnR9lvs
Giannis bests Ingram in every single advanced metric: Ortg, Drtg, TS%, Win Shares, DPM, BPM, VORP. Hell, Giannis even trounces him in PER, and no one even really uses that stat anymore. |
Yeah, if you actually watch the games and look beyond raw box score stats Giannis is leagues ahead of BI at the same age. The BI zealots will call fake news though |
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SocalDevin Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016 Posts: 7825 Location: Long Beach
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Jack's Room wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
Giannis and Ingram are nowhere near the same in advanced stats when comparing those years.
https://imgur.com/WnR9lvs
Giannis bests Ingram in every single advanced metric: Ortg, Drtg, TS%, Win Shares, DPM, BPM, VORP. Hell, Giannis even trounces him in PER, and no one even really uses that stat anymore. |
Yeah, if you actually watch the games and look beyond raw box score stats Giannis is leagues ahead of BI at the same age. The BI zealots will call fake news though |
Specifically.. Who are the zealots? What constitutes being a zealot? |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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Lazlow wrote: | Ingram stans will probably be in denial for another 2-3 years minimum. They will continue to find player comparisons at each age that made the jump. Continue to beat the drum about his length and these flashes of what he could be until he's like 25.
He isn't that guy, and he never will be. Lakers get another star and you need a #3 option? It's Kuzma, not Ingram. Ball could probably fit in as a roleplayer, or something. If Ingram is not coming off the bench, he really shouldn't be on this team anymore. Dude only takes and makes jumpshots when we have large leads. Give Nicolas Batum 14 shots a game and he would put up the similar, if not better stats. That's all Ingram could ever hope to be. Anyone with a sensible eye test can see this. |
We get a second star and I'd value Ingram's all around game over an older guy that somehow is MUCH worse in both defense and playmaking.
Anyone with a sensible IQ would realize that other aspects other then scoring matter. _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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awntawn Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Apr 2016 Posts: 953
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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The Juggernaut wrote: | Jack's Room wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
Giannis and Ingram are nowhere near the same in advanced stats when comparing those years.
https://imgur.com/WnR9lvs
Giannis bests Ingram in every single advanced metric: Ortg, Drtg, TS%, Win Shares, DPM, BPM, VORP. Hell, Giannis even trounces him in PER, and no one even really uses that stat anymore. |
Yeah, if you actually watch the games and look beyond raw box score stats Giannis is leagues ahead of BI at the same age. The BI zealots will call fake news though |
Yeah I'm sure you were watching Bucks games regularly in 2016 |
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BigBoi Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012 Posts: 3115
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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MJST wrote: | Despite what the thread would lead one to believe, BI has been fantastic these past few games |
+1 |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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1ngr4m wrote: | Lazlow wrote: | Ingram stans will probably be in denial for another 2-3 years minimum. They will continue to find player comparisons at each age that made the jump. Continue to beat the drum about his length and these flashes of what he could be until he's like 25.
He isn't that guy, and he never will be. Lakers get another star and you need a #3 option? It's Kuzma, not Ingram. Ball could probably fit in as a roleplayer, or something. If Ingram is not coming off the bench, he really shouldn't be on this team anymore. Dude only takes and makes jumpshots when we have large leads. Give Nicolas Batum 14 shots a game and he would put up the similar, if not better stats. That's all Ingram could ever hope to be. Anyone with a sensible eye test can see this. |
We get a second star and I'd value Ingram's all around game over an older guy that somehow is MUCH worse in both defense and playmaking.
Anyone with a sensible IQ would realize that other aspects other then scoring matter. |
What about the notion we can enjoy both players!!!
Kuz at his ridiculously cheap deal will be kept unless we have a good trade.
BI is coming up on his payday. That's the real ticking time bomb. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Brandon Ingram is starting to settle back into his trend of improving monthly as the season goes on
17.9/7.3/3.8 so far but the percentages aren't great _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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awntawn wrote: | The Juggernaut wrote: | Jack's Room wrote: | Sentient Meat wrote: | Yellow wrote: | It's not 19/5/5.
To be exact:
18.1 PPG
7.1 RPG
3.9 APG
47/29/58 shooting splits |
16.9 PPG
7.7 RPG
4.3 APG
50/26/72
The exalted, infallible Giannis at 21. |
Giannis and Ingram are nowhere near the same in advanced stats when comparing those years.
https://imgur.com/WnR9lvs
Giannis bests Ingram in every single advanced metric: Ortg, Drtg, TS%, Win Shares, DPM, BPM, VORP. Hell, Giannis even trounces him in PER, and no one even really uses that stat anymore. |
Yeah, if you actually watch the games and look beyond raw box score stats Giannis is leagues ahead of BI at the same age. The BI zealots will call fake news though |
Yeah I'm sure you were watching Bucks games regularly in 2016 |
I watched enough to see how much better Giannis was at that age compared BI |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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1ngr4m wrote: | Brandon Ingram is starting to settle back into his trend of improving monthly as the season goes on
17.9/7.3/3.8 so far but the percentages aren't great |
Just need him to replicate some of that (loving the rebounding BTW) with LBJ back. B/c at the end of the day, that's the ultimate calculation. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | 1ngr4m wrote: | Brandon Ingram is starting to settle back into his trend of improving monthly as the season goes on
17.9/7.3/3.8 so far but the percentages aren't great |
Just need him to replicate some of that (loving the rebounding BTW) with LBJ back. B/c at the end of the day, that's the ultimate calculation. |
Yeah and in general it's kind of hard to be happy about any of the young cores individual stats after seeing them (bleep) the bed over and over without LBJ _________________ “Life is too short. You have to keep it moving.” - Kobe |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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1ngr4m wrote: | Lazlow wrote: | Ingram stans will probably be in denial for another 2-3 years minimum. They will continue to find player comparisons at each age that made the jump. Continue to beat the drum about his length and these flashes of what he could be until he's like 25.
He isn't that guy, and he never will be. Lakers get another star and you need a #3 option? It's Kuzma, not Ingram. Ball could probably fit in as a roleplayer, or something. If Ingram is not coming off the bench, he really shouldn't be on this team anymore. Dude only takes and makes jumpshots when we have large leads. Give Nicolas Batum 14 shots a game and he would put up the similar, if not better stats. That's all Ingram could ever hope to be. Anyone with a sensible eye test can see this. |
We get a second star and I'd value Ingram's all around game over an older guy that somehow is MUCH worse in both defense and playmaking.
Anyone with a sensible IQ would realize that other aspects other then scoring matter. |
Depends on who the second star is. Get a guy like Klay, and that would make a lot more sense than if you get an AD. |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | 1ngr4m wrote: | Brandon Ingram is starting to settle back into his trend of improving monthly as the season goes on
17.9/7.3/3.8 so far but the percentages aren't great |
Just need him to replicate some of that (loving the rebounding BTW) with LBJ back. B/c at the end of the day, that's the ultimate calculation. |
Yes the rebounding is the biggest improvement. I’m worried his engagement on the boards is directly linked to how much opportunity he gets on the offensive end. Hopefully he keeps rebounding when Bron gets back. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | 1ngr4m wrote: | Brandon Ingram is starting to settle back into his trend of improving monthly as the season goes on
17.9/7.3/3.8 so far but the percentages aren't great |
Just need him to replicate some of that (loving the rebounding BTW) with LBJ back. B/c at the end of the day, that's the ultimate calculation. |
Yes the rebounding is the biggest improvement. I’m worried his engagement on the boards is directly linked to how much opportunity he gets on the offensive end. Hopefully he keeps rebounding when Bron gets back. |
Lebron leads the team in rebounding so I wouldn't hold my breath on that.
Hart is a good rebounder, so if we keep KCP in the lineup, maybe BI can grab some of those boards though. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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Lazlow wrote: | Ingram stans will probably be in denial for another 2-3 years minimum. They will continue to find player comparisons at each age that made the jump. Continue to beat the drum about his length and these flashes of what he could be until he's like 25.
He isn't that guy, and he never will be. Lakers get another star and you need a #3 option? It's Kuzma, not Ingram. Ball could probably fit in as a roleplayer, or something. If Ingram is not coming off the bench, he really shouldn't be on this team anymore. Dude only takes and makes jumpshots when we have large leads. Give Nicolas Batum 14 shots a game and he would put up the similar, if not better stats. That's all Ingram could ever hope to be. Anyone with a sensible eye test can see this. |
So Ingram would only be a guy who gets 14-5-3 while playing solid defense on opposing wing players? Sign me up. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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BigBoi Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2012 Posts: 3115
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Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | 1ngr4m wrote: | Lazlow wrote: | Ingram stans will probably be in denial for another 2-3 years minimum. They will continue to find player comparisons at each age that made the jump. Continue to beat the drum about his length and these flashes of what he could be until he's like 25.
He isn't that guy, and he never will be. Lakers get another star and you need a #3 option? It's Kuzma, not Ingram. Ball could probably fit in as a roleplayer, or something. If Ingram is not coming off the bench, he really shouldn't be on this team anymore. Dude only takes and makes jumpshots when we have large leads. Give Nicolas Batum 14 shots a game and he would put up the similar, if not better stats. That's all Ingram could ever hope to be. Anyone with a sensible eye test can see this. |
We get a second star and I'd value Ingram's all around game over an older guy that somehow is MUCH worse in both defense and playmaking.
Anyone with a sensible IQ would realize that other aspects other then scoring matter. |
What about the notion we can enjoy both players!!!
Kuz at his ridiculously cheap deal will be kept unless we have a good trade.
BI is coming up on his payday. That's the real ticking time bomb. |
No Kuz would be a throwin-in at best in any trade involving BI. Then he will rot on another team’s bench where he belongs where he can commit as many charges as he please (he’s good for at least 1 a game) or when he commits those dumb turnovers on 1 on 4 fastbreaks cos he is allergic to passing. He’s incredibly dumb for an old player who spent 4 years in college. |
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