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tox
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:32 pm    Post subject:

Ingram had a nice game yesterday, even before he hit those shots in the 4th and his shooting was meh. Hope to see more of that kind of thing, it's still frustrating seeing him take low percentage shots but he's taking fewer of them recently.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:45 pm    Post subject:

Quote:

Brandon Ingram - 2.7 APG, 2.5 TO
Kyle Kuzma - 2.4 APG, 2.0 TO


God-tier playmaker BI is a whopping 0.3 APG better than allergic to passing Kuzma while being the primary ball handler for 11 games now and pounding the ball after draining most of the shot clock off every other possession.

He's also commiting more turnovers than Kuz. ROFLMAO just GTFO

But dude. Don't you know? His assists are only down because of the games he played with lebron. I think that's the excuse now? I think people are still riding his performances from last year when Lonzo was out and he played well as a point-foward. Ever since then he is apparently a "playmaker". The person whos numbers are actually down from Lebron is Lonzo, its very obvious.

Regardless, to be clear I am not some Kuzma fanboy trying to pick at all the other players. I think Kuzma is the best of them all with Lonzo having the most potential but I'm not playing favorites or attached to anyone. I wanted them traded each time we could get a superstar player for some of them and we chose not to.

I want this team to do well and make better decisions in the future. Not trading for PG13 I can let go, but Kawhi is inexcusable. SAC only wanted Ingram for Cousins straight up. I only see Ingram's value declining from here. Do we really want the scenario where we strike out in FA and our young pieces are not enough to get anything? It is a very distinct possibility with how stars don't choose to not go play with Lebron.

I doubt in the meeting with Magic that Lebron agreed to join this team with the idea he would be throwing TWO years of the later stages of his prime to wait for the young players. He was probably told he would get another star player and that some of our core would help us along the way. To some people Ingram is not one of these people and I guess both parties will have to agree to disagree on this.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:11 pm    Post subject:

Only requires a little bit of common sense to figure this out..

When playing the 2, and you already have two primary ball handlers who orchestrate offense better than you, your role is relegated to more of an off ball scorer. Which means he won't be facilitating as much under those circumstances, which means he won't be getting as many assists.

When he's not forcing his own offense he has clearly demonstrated he is a competent playmaker, who can average around 5 or 6 assists per.

In addition I believe Kuz could average 3 or 4 if he wanted. At this stage of his career it's not a priority, he'd rather score.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:04 am    Post subject:

Just watched a random youtube interview of John Salley mentioning that Pippen was more skilled overall than MJ where he mentioned that Pippen's arms reached his knees.

I remember Pip had wingspan, but wow, 7'3, same as BI. We always think too bad BI isn't quicker because his wingspan is awesome. Pip was as explosive as they come with a better handle and better shot than BI. Yes, I realize that Scottie is a HOF'er, but thinking about it from that perspective, I think at his best, BI will be a Pip light, more likely a poor man's Pip
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:09 am    Post subject:

Pippen didn't have good handle.. it was okay. He could get up the court and push a break without getting ripped, he wasn't shaking guys up on the perimeter though.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Pippen didn't have good handle.. it was okay. He could get up the court and push a break without getting ripped, he wasn't shaking guys up on the perimeter though.


Disagree - Pip was a point forward who I'd trust way more with the ball than BI. This is coming from someone who is a BI supporter and hated Pippen growing up. The only thing I can think of that BI has over Pip is a longer stride, and I'm not even sure of that as BI's slender frame makes him look even longer than he is.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:28 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Pippen didn't have good handle.. it was okay. He could get up the court and push a break without getting ripped, he wasn't shaking guys up on the perimeter though.


Disagree - Pip was a point forward who I'd trust way more with the ball than BI. This is coming from someone who is a BI supporter and hated Pippen growing up. The only thing I can think of that BI has over Pip is a longer stride, and I'm not even sure of that as BI's slender frame makes him look even longer than he is.


I wouldn't say that Ingram has anything at all over Pippen.. I'm just saying Pippen wasn't an exceptional ball handler. It was good enough to not get ripped bringing the ball up court. I wouldn't even say his handle was above average.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:49 am    Post subject:

LakersDC wrote:
Just watched a random youtube interview of John Salley mentioning that Pippen was more skilled overall than MJ where he mentioned that Pippen's arms reached his knees.

I remember Pip had wingspan, but wow, 7'3, same as BI. We always think too bad BI isn't quicker because his wingspan is awesome. Pip was as explosive as they come with a better handle and better shot than BI. Yes, I realize that Scottie is a HOF'er, but thinking about it from that perspective, I think at his best, BI will be a Pip light, more likely a poor man's Pip


BI still probably has a good amount of reach on Pip
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:51 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Pippen didn't have good handle.. it was okay. He could get up the court and push a break without getting ripped, he wasn't shaking guys up on the perimeter though.


Disagree - Pip was a point forward who I'd trust way more with the ball than BI. This is coming from someone who is a BI supporter and hated Pippen growing up. The only thing I can think of that BI has over Pip is a longer stride, and I'm not even sure of that as BI's slender frame makes him look even longer than he is.


I wouldn't say that Ingram has anything at all over Pippen.. I'm just saying Pippen wasn't an exceptional ball handler. It was good enough to not get ripped bringing the ball up court. I wouldn't even say his handle was above average.


Pippen had well above average handles for a wing. Average as a PG.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:54 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
LakersDC wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Pippen didn't have good handle.. it was okay. He could get up the court and push a break without getting ripped, he wasn't shaking guys up on the perimeter though.


Disagree - Pip was a point forward who I'd trust way more with the ball than BI. This is coming from someone who is a BI supporter and hated Pippen growing up. The only thing I can think of that BI has over Pip is a longer stride, and I'm not even sure of that as BI's slender frame makes him look even longer than he is.


I wouldn't say that Ingram has anything at all over Pippen.. I'm just saying Pippen wasn't an exceptional ball handler. It was good enough to not get ripped bringing the ball up court. I wouldn't even say his handle was above average.


Pippen had well above average handles for a wing. Average as a PG.


I'll give you that, considering that time period.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
his game is just so awkward looking. simple layups he would make them look difficult, he just lacks finishing ability around the rim. and why he always settle for weak sauce layups instead of dunk with his freakish long arm?


That's where getting stronger should help in the future.

He loses at least four points a night getting stuffed at the rim... when as he gains more weight and power, he will probably be able to finish those in a few years.


I’m starting to think he’s never going to get significantly stronger based on his lack of progress so far in his career. Regardless, I don’t think that’s his issue. He needs to stop double pumping and putting the ball behind his head. Just go straight up, use your length, and finish strong over players. I think he is scared to get blocked a lot which I don’t understand.


He's going to get stronger IMO. It just will take a lot longer than most but in a few years, I don't think he'll be thrown around like a rag doll as much.


What makes you optimistic about him getting significantly stronger? He’s young but his lack of progress really scares me.


Not meant in any disrespectful way,... but do you not remember a young Tyson Chandler? It took him SEVERAL years to look like. I have more than a bean pole. Now he’s one of the stronger guys in the league. From personal experience as a long limbed person,... it takes time to effectively fill out when you’re all arms and legs. He, like Tyson though,.. looks to have the shoulders to add weight. He’s just going about it in a more natural way.


Yes I do and I think he was bigger as the other posters pictures suggest. That’s also from before basketball players realized how important the weight room is, at least to the extent it is now. Yet we’ve seen little to no progress from a body standpoint. If by natural you mean just letting his body grow into whatever it will, than sure that’s what he’s doing. I would prefer he hit the weight room hard and gain weight at a quicker pace. I think it’s pretty clear he hasn’t dedicated himself in that way as much as the other young players based strictly off looking at them over the past few years. I’m still skeptical he’ll ever get significantly stronger.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:38 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Only requires a little bit of common sense to figure this out..

When playing the 2, and you already have two primary ball handlers who orchestrate offense better than you, your role is relegated to more of an off ball scorer. Which means he won't be facilitating as much under those circumstances, which means he won't be getting as many assists.

When he's not forcing his own offense he has clearly demonstrated he is a competent playmaker, who can average around 5 or 6 assists per.

In addition I believe Kuz could average 3 or 4 if he wanted. At this stage of his career it's not a priority, he'd rather score.


Ingram has played a lot of PG this year and it’s been without other playmakers a decent amount. His assist numbers have slowly increased which is encouraging. He’s definitely played better the last few games but he certainly hasn’t proven he can average 5-6 assists while being efficient for an extended period of time. He’s had 0-2 assist games this year while being one of the primary ballhandler/facilitators. Those are incredibly discouraging but seem to be becoming more rare.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject:

I don't agree.. we can leave it at that.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
I don't agree.. we can leave it at that.


About him playing better lately? I thought you’d feel the same way.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't agree.. we can leave it at that.


About him playing better lately? I thought you’d feel the same way.


You 2 are like the Tom and Jerry of this forum
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject:

His rebounding average over the past 10 games is encouraging and I hope he continues to crash the boards like this when LBJ comes back.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:20 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't agree.. we can leave it at that.


About him playing better lately? I thought you’d feel the same way.


You 2 are like the Tom and Jerry of this forum



I strive to be half as entertaining as that show.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
his game is just so awkward looking. simple layups he would make them look difficult, he just lacks finishing ability around the rim. and why he always settle for weak sauce layups instead of dunk with his freakish long arm?


That's where getting stronger should help in the future.

He loses at least four points a night getting stuffed at the rim... when as he gains more weight and power, he will probably be able to finish those in a few years.


I’m starting to think he’s never going to get significantly stronger based on his lack of progress so far in his career. Regardless, I don’t think that’s his issue. He needs to stop double pumping and putting the ball behind his head. Just go straight up, use your length, and finish strong over players. I think he is scared to get blocked a lot which I don’t understand.


He's going to get stronger IMO. It just will take a lot longer than most but in a few years, I don't think he'll be thrown around like a rag doll as much.


What makes you optimistic about him getting significantly stronger? He’s young but his lack of progress really scares me.


Not meant in any disrespectful way,... but do you not remember a young Tyson Chandler? It took him SEVERAL years to look like. I have more than a bean pole. Now he’s one of the stronger guys in the league. From personal experience as a long limbed person,... it takes time to effectively fill out when you’re all arms and legs. He, like Tyson though,.. looks to have the shoulders to add weight. He’s just going about it in a more natural way.


Yes I do and I think he was bigger as the other posters pictures suggest. That’s also from before basketball players realized how important the weight room is, at least to the extent it is now. Yet we’ve seen little to no progress from a body standpoint. If by natural you mean just letting his body grow into whatever it will, than sure that’s what he’s doing. I would prefer he hit the weight room hard and gain weight at a quicker pace. I think it’s pretty clear he hasn’t dedicated himself in that way as much as the other young players based strictly off looking at them over the past few years. I’m still skeptical he’ll ever get significantly stronger.


This is just something of a typical body development for a super skinny person who doesn't over-eat; even if they lift consistently.
And we ignore growth when it's not substantial -- his 2nd Summer League there was a lot of talk about how he looked bigger than the year before. But as long as he still looks skinny - we won't give him credit for upgrading from being the skinniest person on the planet.

you can't tell me this isn't a nice amount bigger than his rookie year

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/10/5/17933520/la-lakers-brandon-ingram-kyle-kuzma-expected-to-have-breakout-seasons-nba-gm-survey

vs

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BByyuzP.img?x=1&y=1&f=PNG&h=336&w=624&;m=5&q=60&b=white

I just have a pet peeve with training assumptions that fans make. All we know is that the Lakers are against him over-eating to gain wait. And he also said that core/stability was a main workout focus this Summer - but that doesn't mean he hasn't diligently worked upper body. There was an Instagram vid earlier this season from Lance after a game - where he and Ingram were in the weight room working........ ... after a game.

I don't think it's out of the realm of likely possibilities, that the body below will take 5 years to become solid, especially when the guy isn't augmenting his diet to gain a lot of weight.

https://usathss.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/brandoningram.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1
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hype
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:53 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Luminous8 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
his game is just so awkward looking. simple layups he would make them look difficult, he just lacks finishing ability around the rim. and why he always settle for weak sauce layups instead of dunk with his freakish long arm?


That's where getting stronger should help in the future.

He loses at least four points a night getting stuffed at the rim... when as he gains more weight and power, he will probably be able to finish those in a few years.


I’m starting to think he’s never going to get significantly stronger based on his lack of progress so far in his career. Regardless, I don’t think that’s his issue. He needs to stop double pumping and putting the ball behind his head. Just go straight up, use your length, and finish strong over players. I think he is scared to get blocked a lot which I don’t understand.


He's going to get stronger IMO. It just will take a lot longer than most but in a few years, I don't think he'll be thrown around like a rag doll as much.


What makes you optimistic about him getting significantly stronger? He’s young but his lack of progress really scares me.


Not meant in any disrespectful way,... but do you not remember a young Tyson Chandler? It took him SEVERAL years to look like. I have more than a bean pole. Now he’s one of the stronger guys in the league. From personal experience as a long limbed person,... it takes time to effectively fill out when you’re all arms and legs. He, like Tyson though,.. looks to have the shoulders to add weight. He’s just going about it in a more natural way.


Yes I do and I think he was bigger as the other posters pictures suggest. That’s also from before basketball players realized how important the weight room is, at least to the extent it is now. Yet we’ve seen little to no progress from a body standpoint. If by natural you mean just letting his body grow into whatever it will, than sure that’s what he’s doing. I would prefer he hit the weight room hard and gain weight at a quicker pace. I think it’s pretty clear he hasn’t dedicated himself in that way as much as the other young players based strictly off looking at them over the past few years. I’m still skeptical he’ll ever get significantly stronger.


This is just something of a typical body development for a super skinny person who doesn't over-eat; even if they lift consistently.
And we ignore growth when it's not substantial -- his 2nd Summer League there was a lot of talk about how he looked bigger than the year before. But as long as he still looks skinny - we won't give him credit for upgrading from being the skinniest person on the planet.

you can't tell me this isn't a nice amount bigger than his rookie year

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2018/10/5/17933520/la-lakers-brandon-ingram-kyle-kuzma-expected-to-have-breakout-seasons-nba-gm-survey

vs

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BByyuzP.img?x=1&y=1&f=PNG&h=336&w=624&;m=5&q=60&b=white

I just have a pet peeve with training assumptions that fans make. All we know is that the Lakers are against him over-eating to gain wait. And he also said that core/stability was a main workout focus this Summer - but that doesn't mean he hasn't diligently worked upper body. There was an Instagram vid earlier this season from Lance after a game - where he and Ingram were in the weight room working........ ... after a game.

I don't think it's out of the realm of likely possibilities, that the body below will take 5 years to become solid, especially when the guy isn't augmenting his diet to gain a lot of weight.

https://usathss.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/brandoningram.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1


There is 100% no question he is much stronger in his upper body even from last year. You can tell by when he gets fouled he still is able to power up a shot and have a chance at a 3 point play which didn't happen nearly as much before this season. He def. still has a ways to go but like you said guys with his super tall and lanky body style are much more difficult to bulk up then your average young player.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject:

The Juggernaut wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't agree.. we can leave it at that.


About him playing better lately? I thought you’d feel the same way.


You 2 are like the Tom and Jerry of this forum



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:37 pm    Post subject:

oldschool32 wrote:
The Juggernaut wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't agree.. we can leave it at that.


About him playing better lately? I thought you’d feel the same way.


You 2 are like the Tom and Jerry of this forum




I understand how it makes the thread look.. I always make the effort to cut the exchanges short or just not respond.
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Laker Hefe
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Is the a quasi star that has less ability to get a shot off?
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:35 pm    Post subject:

Magic Ingram. See, don’t have to only be a go to scorer!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:41 pm    Post subject:

9 assists 👀👀👀
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:42 pm    Post subject:

They need to stop letting him zone and free lance off ball on defense. He's literally guarding no one. I've never seen anything as ridiculous off ball on defense. He gave up 4 three pointers. And still was zoning. smh
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