OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:20 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
epak wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Not to be overly negative regarding BI, but is there a single thing he does well? Is it defending? Midrange shot creation? Finishing drives?

As a player who is not going to be the primary option on offense on a winning team I think it’s critical that we identify what advantage he offers and then try to adjust schemes to take advantage of it.

I struggle to identify what BI does well.


In my opinion he defends well against wings who aren't running around using screens all game. Another thing he does well, or has been doing well is being an alternate passer as a wing player. You have to use that perspective though: as a wing player. It's not fair to him to use the lens of a point guard. Again IMO.

And like GT's video's have been showing, he makes good basketball plays moving off the catch (either it be passing or scoring).


Clean up his shot mechanics and he'll be a really good all-around player. Most of the struggles he's had this year have been the result of him being miscast, IMO. My biggest hope for him this year was that he'd take a leap forward on defense and he's done exactly that. There's been a noticeable improvement in his decision-making recently too. I hope he's able to continue that when LeBron comes back and there are fewer touches.


Yeah, there was a particular play that stood out to me yesterday, I can't remember when it was, but BI made some moves around the FT line, and then pulled away from a jumper from near the top of the key against I think it was Dennis Schroder. Schroder somehow managed to get a hand up pretty good and BI left it short I think.

I mean there is no reason that a guy that is 6'1" should be bother a 6'9" player on a fallaway. That has got to be something with the mechanics or form or whatever.


KIROE spotted this a long time ago. Instead of bringing it straight up on the gather, he cocks it back. That makes it a two-part shot and more of a flick than a shot, really. Same is true on most of his 3's, where he has footwork issues too.

Watch how Kawhi (similar wingspan) doesn't bring the ball behind his head and instead has a one-motion shot that guys can't really bother with contests.




Is that his normal form? On that freeze frame it's pretty clear that Schroeder has no chance of blocking Ingram's shot, so why is he being disrupted? Is it that Ingram cocks it back more when it's contested to not get blocked, and that in turn is why he shoots so much worse under duress?
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Lazlow
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:21 pm    Post subject:

mookielala wrote:
Mr.81 wrote:
LKA wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Not to be overly negative regarding BI, but is there a single thing he does well? Is it defending? Midrange shot creation? Finishing drives?

As a player who is not going to be the primary option on offense on a winning team I think it’s critical that we identify what advantage he offers and then try to adjust schemes to take advantage of it.

I struggle to identify what BI does well.


Nothing.

Nothing is what posters like you are contributing to this thread, if you guys can't figure out what his strength's are then maybe stick to the other threads.


Yes, please just GTFO trolls! You suck.

Being a jack of all trades not particularly excelling in one area is a real thing. Doesn't make someone a troll for having that opinion. You a Lakers fan or a players stan?
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:33 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Not to be overly negative regarding BI, but is there a single thing he does well? Is it defending? Midrange shot creation? Finishing drives?

As a player who is not going to be the primary option on offense on a winning team I think it’s critical that we identify what advantage he offers and then try to adjust schemes to take advantage of it.

I struggle to identify what BI does well.


Ehh you're gonna get in trouble with that wording. But I did post something similar a day or two ago.

BI does a lot of things well. My question was more -- when you re-insert him into a game, what SPECIFIC thing do you ask him to do? Like it or not, he's going to be a role player particularly if we acquire a second star next season.

So what is the thing you bring Ingram in for? For instance, for Kuz, it's scoring. Anything else you get is gravy. Lonzo, it's defense and moving the ball. Anything else is a bonus. Chandler, interior presence. Rondo, running the offense. Svi space the floor with shooting.

I have some challenges trying to figure out exactly what thing I can rely on from Brandon on a given night.
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject:

Lazlow wrote:
mookielala wrote:
Mr.81 wrote:
LKA wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Not to be overly negative regarding BI, but is there a single thing he does well? Is it defending? Midrange shot creation? Finishing drives?

As a player who is not going to be the primary option on offense on a winning team I think it’s critical that we identify what advantage he offers and then try to adjust schemes to take advantage of it.

I struggle to identify what BI does well.


Nothing.

Nothing is what posters like you are contributing to this thread, if you guys can't figure out what his strength's are then maybe stick to the other threads.


Yes, please just GTFO trolls! You suck.

Being a jack of all trades not particularly excelling in one area is a real thing. Doesn't make someone a troll for having that opinion. You a Lakers fan or a players stan?


Inconsistent though he's been, Ingram scores in the top 60 of all 450 players.

This means out of 150 league starters... he ranks 55... upper 40% at the age of 21.

Unfortunately some people here think life is unfair until we possess three out of the top 6 players... LBJ/AD/Kawhi or KD.

Meanwhile in the real world... having someone who scores in the upper 40 percentile of NBA starters is hardly a disaster.

I'm a Lakers fan... but I'm also a parity fan.

How many people complained when KD went to GSW?

If you were one of those then you should probably stop griping.

If you like the idea of having one team possess three top six players then carry on I suppose.

At any rate... Ingram has a lot of improving to do... but he's hardly a failure.

Are you the type of parent who considers your child a failure if he got Bs instead of As in school?

Were you such a student yourself?

I bet most of the people complaining never achieved top 10 or 20 percentile in school or their chosen field... yet here they are calling someone trash.

It's sports... I get it... we all have the right to complain when someone is underperforming.

But still... some carry the criticism way too far imo.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
epak wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Not to be overly negative regarding BI, but is there a single thing he does well? Is it defending? Midrange shot creation? Finishing drives?

As a player who is not going to be the primary option on offense on a winning team I think it’s critical that we identify what advantage he offers and then try to adjust schemes to take advantage of it.

I struggle to identify what BI does well.


In my opinion he defends well against wings who aren't running around using screens all game. Another thing he does well, or has been doing well is being an alternate passer as a wing player. You have to use that perspective though: as a wing player. It's not fair to him to use the lens of a point guard. Again IMO.

And like GT's video's have been showing, he makes good basketball plays moving off the catch (either it be passing or scoring).


Clean up his shot mechanics and he'll be a really good all-around player. Most of the struggles he's had this year have been the result of him being miscast, IMO. My biggest hope for him this year was that he'd take a leap forward on defense and he's done exactly that. There's been a noticeable improvement in his decision-making recently too. I hope he's able to continue that when LeBron comes back and there are fewer touches.


Yeah, there was a particular play that stood out to me yesterday, I can't remember when it was, but BI made some moves around the FT line, and then pulled away from a jumper from near the top of the key against I think it was Dennis Schroder. Schroder somehow managed to get a hand up pretty good and BI left it short I think.

I mean there is no reason that a guy that is 6'1" should be bother a 6'9" player on a fallaway. That has got to be something with the mechanics or form or whatever.


KIROE spotted this a long time ago. Instead of bringing it straight up on the gather, he cocks it back. That makes it a two-part shot and more of a flick than a shot, really. Same is true on most of his 3's, where he has footwork issues too.

Watch how Kawhi (similar wingspan) doesn't bring the ball behind his head and instead has a one-motion shot that guys can't really bother with contests.




Is that his normal form? On that freeze frame it's pretty clear that Schroeder has no chance of blocking Ingram's shot, so why is he being disrupted? Is it that Ingram cocks it back more when it's contested to not get blocked, and that in turn is why he shoots so much worse under duress?


it's not really about getting blocked or not; it's about just being able to extend your follow-through cleanly, without it being touched / defender putting his arm in that space to deter your extension - if the defender puts his arm up in the space before you extend, he has the right to that space - refs don't call a foul if your arms collide - so Ingram always tries really hard to avoid this contact. His arm is so long, when he extends, he's often in the defenders contest space

https://twitter.com/BBiomechanics/status/1068994942188625922

https://ssl.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/nba/wsc/2018/11/15/wsc_league_b9018f5c-b940-8b38-c36b-9a9284140595.nba_2787253_1920x1080_5904.mp4


https://ssl.cdn.turner.com/nba/big/nba/wsc/2018/11/04/wsc_league_debc7eb8-b0ab-e211-e39c-4cd032c4df97.nba_2728250_640x360_600.mp4

this is why you see a lot of players do the "pull-back" release when contested.
If Ingram didn't have so much wasted/extra motion in his shot, defenders wouldn't get to these contest spots like they do - he'd be extending his follow-through and the contest would just look late and foul worthy
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hadokenny
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:19 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:


Inconsistent though he's been, Ingram scores in the top 60 of all 450 players.

This means out of 150 league starters... he ranks 55... upper 40% at the age of 21.

Unfortunately some people here think life is unfair until we possess three out of the top 6 players... LBJ/AD/Kawhi or KD.

Meanwhile in the real world... having someone who scores in the upper 40 percentile of NBA starters is hardly a disaster.

I'm a Lakers fan... but I'm also a parity fan.

How many people complained when KD went to GSW?

If you were one of those then you should probably stop griping.

If you like the idea of having one team possess three top six players then carry on I suppose.

At any rate... Ingram has a lot of improving to do... but he's hardly a failure.

Are you the type of parent who considers your child a failure if he got Bs instead of As in school?

Were you such a student yourself?

I bet most of the people complaining never achieved top 10 or 20 percentile in school or their chosen field... yet here they are calling someone trash.

It's sports... I get it... we all have the right to complain when someone is underperforming.

But still... some carry the criticism way too far imo.


BI's main issue is that he is not living up to his potential. If he were a second round pick or even late first round pick, no one would give a fk about him under performing. He is a lottery pick. He has the length and speed to be a top 10% producer in this league. All the criticism of BI is warranted IMO.

Would you criticize your kid if he or she is lazy and not performing to his/her potential in school/sports/extracurricular activies? You should because that's what good parents do.
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VicXLakers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:25 pm    Post subject:

hadokenny wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:


Inconsistent though he's been, Ingram scores in the top 60 of all 450 players.

This means out of 150 league starters... he ranks 55... upper 40% at the age of 21.

Unfortunately some people here think life is unfair until we possess three out of the top 6 players... LBJ/AD/Kawhi or KD.

Meanwhile in the real world... having someone who scores in the upper 40 percentile of NBA starters is hardly a disaster.

I'm a Lakers fan... but I'm also a parity fan.

How many people complained when KD went to GSW?

If you were one of those then you should probably stop griping.

If you like the idea of having one team possess three top six players then carry on I suppose.

At any rate... Ingram has a lot of improving to do... but he's hardly a failure.

Are you the type of parent who considers your child a failure if he got Bs instead of As in school?

Were you such a student yourself?

I bet most of the people complaining never achieved top 10 or 20 percentile in school or their chosen field... yet here they are calling someone trash.

It's sports... I get it... we all have the right to complain when someone is underperforming.

But still... some carry the criticism way too far imo.


BI's main issue is that he is not living up to his potential. If he were a second round pick or even late first round pick, no one would give a fk about him under performing. He is a lottery pick. He has the length and speed to be a top 10% producer in this league. All the criticism of BI is warranted IMO.

Would you criticize your kid if he or she is lazy and not performing to his/her potential in school/sports/extracurricular activies? You should because that's what good parents do.


BI is not lazy and appears to be trying maybe too hard but surely trying to do all Luke asks of him
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:29 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
hadokenny wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:


Inconsistent though he's been, Ingram scores in the top 60 of all 450 players.

This means out of 150 league starters... he ranks 55... upper 40% at the age of 21.

Unfortunately some people here think life is unfair until we possess three out of the top 6 players... LBJ/AD/Kawhi or KD.

Meanwhile in the real world... having someone who scores in the upper 40 percentile of NBA starters is hardly a disaster.

I'm a Lakers fan... but I'm also a parity fan.

How many people complained when KD went to GSW?

If you were one of those then you should probably stop griping.

If you like the idea of having one team possess three top six players then carry on I suppose.

At any rate... Ingram has a lot of improving to do... but he's hardly a failure.

Are you the type of parent who considers your child a failure if he got Bs instead of As in school?

Were you such a student yourself?

I bet most of the people complaining never achieved top 10 or 20 percentile in school or their chosen field... yet here they are calling someone trash.

It's sports... I get it... we all have the right to complain when someone is underperforming.

But still... some carry the criticism way too far imo.


BI's main issue is that he is not living up to his potential. If he were a second round pick or even late first round pick, no one would give a fk about him under performing. He is a lottery pick. He has the length and speed to be a top 10% producer in this league. All the criticism of BI is warranted IMO.

Would you criticize your kid if he or she is lazy and not performing to his/her potential in school/sports/extracurricular activies? You should because that's what good parents do.


BI is not lazy and appears to be trying maybe too hard but surely trying to do all Luke asks of him


BI definitely gets lazy at times and it drives me nuts. His off ball and transition D is very inconsistent. I remember a play where he turned it over last night, jogged back and watched a thunder player(I don’t remember who) make a layup where he could have contested or blocked the shot if he ran. That’s not uncommon either. He tried to hard with the basketball but when he doesn’t have the ball, his effort is inconsistent.
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hadokenny
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
hadokenny wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:


Inconsistent though he's been, Ingram scores in the top 60 of all 450 players.

This means out of 150 league starters... he ranks 55... upper 40% at the age of 21.

Unfortunately some people here think life is unfair until we possess three out of the top 6 players... LBJ/AD/Kawhi or KD.

Meanwhile in the real world... having someone who scores in the upper 40 percentile of NBA starters is hardly a disaster.

I'm a Lakers fan... but I'm also a parity fan.

How many people complained when KD went to GSW?

If you were one of those then you should probably stop griping.

If you like the idea of having one team possess three top six players then carry on I suppose.

At any rate... Ingram has a lot of improving to do... but he's hardly a failure.

Are you the type of parent who considers your child a failure if he got Bs instead of As in school?

Were you such a student yourself?

I bet most of the people complaining never achieved top 10 or 20 percentile in school or their chosen field... yet here they are calling someone trash.

It's sports... I get it... we all have the right to complain when someone is underperforming.

But still... some carry the criticism way too far imo.


BI's main issue is that he is not living up to his potential. If he were a second round pick or even late first round pick, no one would give a fk about him under performing. He is a lottery pick. He has the length and speed to be a top 10% producer in this league. All the criticism of BI is warranted IMO.

Would you criticize your kid if he or she is lazy and not performing to his/her potential in school/sports/extracurricular activies? You should because that's what good parents do.


BI is not lazy and appears to be trying maybe too hard but surely trying to do all Luke asks of him


BI definitely gets lazy at times and it drives me nuts. His off ball and transition D is very inconsistent. I remember a play where he turned it over last night, jogged back and watched a thunder player(I don’t remember who) make a layup where he could have contested or blocked the shot if he ran. That’s not uncommon either. He tried to hard with the basketball but when he doesn’t have the ball, his effort is inconsistent.


Agreed. The only time I see consistent effort is when he has the ball in his hands. When he doesn't... zzzzfest.
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Sentient Meat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:33 pm    Post subject:

hadokenny wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:


Inconsistent though he's been, Ingram scores in the top 60 of all 450 players.

This means out of 150 league starters... he ranks 55... upper 40% at the age of 21.

Unfortunately some people here think life is unfair until we possess three out of the top 6 players... LBJ/AD/Kawhi or KD.

Meanwhile in the real world... having someone who scores in the upper 40 percentile of NBA starters is hardly a disaster.

I'm a Lakers fan... but I'm also a parity fan.

How many people complained when KD went to GSW?

If you were one of those then you should probably stop griping.

If you like the idea of having one team possess three top six players then carry on I suppose.

At any rate... Ingram has a lot of improving to do... but he's hardly a failure.

Are you the type of parent who considers your child a failure if he got Bs instead of As in school?

Were you such a student yourself?

I bet most of the people complaining never achieved top 10 or 20 percentile in school or their chosen field... yet here they are calling someone trash.

It's sports... I get it... we all have the right to complain when someone is underperforming.

But still... some carry the criticism way too far imo.


BI's main issue is that he is not living up to his potential. If he were a second round pick or even late first round pick, no one would give a fk about him under performing. He is a lottery pick. He has the length and speed to be a top 10% producer in this league. All the criticism of BI is warranted IMO.

Would you criticize your kid if he or she is lazy and not performing to his/her potential in school/sports/extracurricular activies? You should because that's what good parents do.


I would but I'd never call them trash... nor tell them they'd never amount to much or ever get better.

I have zero problem with saying he was poor last night... I have zero problem with people saying they don't like his style of play.

I do have a problem with people calling him trash and saying they know that he'll never get better when they can't name anyone who will get better that isn't already obvious.

2 out of the last 12 2nd picks have become all stars... Oladipo didn't blossom until he was 25.

This means only KD was good right out of the gate out of 12 picks.

Let's call BI a disappointment at 25 if he's still ONLY scoring 16 points a game and playing solid D.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:37 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:


I would but I'd never call them trash... nor tell them they'd never amount to much or ever get better.

I have zero problem with saying he was poor last night... I have zero problem with people saying they don't like his style of play.

I do have a problem with people calling him trash and saying they know that he'll never get better when they can't name anyone who will get better that isn't already obvious.

2 out of the last 12 2nd picks have become all stars... Oladipo didn't blossom until he was 25.

This means only KD was good right out of the gate out of 12 picks.

Let's call BI a disappointment at 25 if he's still ONLY scoring 16 points a game and playing solid D.



People calling him trash are just being hyperbolic. No NBA-level player is "trash" in the literal sense.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:41 pm    Post subject:

hadokenny wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:


I would but I'd never call them trash... nor tell them they'd never amount to much or ever get better.

I have zero problem with saying he was poor last night... I have zero problem with people saying they don't like his style of play.

I do have a problem with people calling him trash and saying they know that he'll never get better when they can't name anyone who will get better that isn't already obvious.

2 out of the last 12 2nd picks have become all stars... Oladipo didn't blossom until he was 25.

This means only KD was good right out of the gate out of 12 picks.

Let's call BI a disappointment at 25 if he's still ONLY scoring 16 points a game and playing solid D.



People calling him trash are just being hyperbolic. No NBA-level player is "trash" in the literal sense.


Imagine you are sitting in Staples and someone is calling Ingram trash all night long.

Is it their right? Sure, I suppose.

Do I want to listen to it? Not really.

Most trolling posters are bullies who will do it more and more if left unchallenged.

Most will give up if you ask them to defend their position.

It's their right to say what they want, but it's my right to question it... especially when unsupported by any sort of coherent arguments.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject:

hadokenny wrote:
BI's main issue is that he is not living up to his potential. If he were a second round pick or even late first round pick, no one would give a fk about him under performing


Exactly. Fair or not there’s expectations to live up to as the 2nd pick in the draft. Especially when you’re a Laker. This is the Lakeshow not the (bleep) Hornets. This franchise doesn’t settle for being just okay.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:48 pm    Post subject:

For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:51 pm    Post subject:

BI’s only issue is his age IMO. He is slowly progressing in all facets of his game. He’s still just 21 and you guys want superstar production already. He hasn’t even matured into his body, let alone his game.

Like it or not, he needs time.

They all do.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.


I think the never ending whining about Ingram criticism perpetuates the issue. Especially when it resorts to calling people trolls for reasonable criticism. Yea, some people troll, but many(myself included) have been called trolls for reasonable criticism. Stop trying to put out a fire by pouring beer on it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:56 pm    Post subject:

got to find something to do with life instead of posting same thing over and over and chewing it to death
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:58 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.


I think the never ending whining about Ingram criticism perpetuates the issue. Especially when it resorts to calling people trolls for reasonable criticism. Yea, some people troll, but many(myself included) have been called trolls for reasonable criticism. Stop trying to put out a fire by pouring beer on it.


You are pretty strong willed and persistent... but most are not.

Also you have been giving pretty balanced takes since we last debated.

My point is that most trolls are too lazy to carry on if someone challenges their position.

I've been on the board a lot because the team has been struggling so it's no problem for me to debate a few trolls along the way.

If we start winning and get our second agent sorted... I'll happily go back to lurking more.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:59 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Imagine you are sitting in Staples and someone is calling Ingram trash all night long.

Is it their right? Sure, I suppose.

Do I want to listen to it? Not really.

Most trolling posters are bullies who will do it more and more if left unchallenged.

Most will give up if you ask them to defend their position.

It's their right to say what they want, but it's my right to question it... especially when unsupported by any sort of coherent arguments.


I pay my money like everybody else, if I see Ingram or anybody playing trash imma let it be known. And I have at the games.

I’m a real passionate fan bro. I’m not one of these people who are always feeling delighted even when Ingram shts the bed or we lose to the Cavaliers. But I guess that makes me a troll.

And it’s funny because most of the people who are quick to label another poster a troll are usually the ones that never give any type of insight or analysis. I only see them putting thumbs up and smileys in the thread after say BI has a good game. And when somebody like me calls him out for a bad game, their only response is claiming everyone as “negative trolls”.

Those are the ones that sound more like the troll to me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.


I think the never ending whining about Ingram criticism perpetuates the issue. Especially when it resorts to calling people trolls for reasonable criticism. Yea, some people troll, but many(myself included) have been called trolls for reasonable criticism. Stop trying to put out a fire by pouring beer on it.


You are pretty strong willed and persistent... but most are not.

Also you have been giving pretty balanced takes since we last debated.

My point is that most trolls are too lazy to carry on if someone challenges their position.

I've been on the board a lot because the team has been struggling so it's no problem for me to debate a few trolls along the way.

If we start winning and get our second agent sorted... I'll happily go back to lurking more.


I think a better idea is to focus on your posting being about the game and not judging the reasonableness of people who disagree with you. But to each their own.
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.


If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.

We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:06 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.


If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.

We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick.


Somebody posted earlier that only 2 number two picks have been allstars in the last ten years or so and one of them went to his first all star game at 25. Sounds more like you overpaid for a Toyota because the car sells man tricked you into thinking it was as nice as a Porsche. A little patience and more reasonable expectations could help your takes.
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Sina
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject:

Ingram likes to go to basket. That’s his style of play. He has been doing it from his rookie season. But his skinny frame make him not that effective when driving to basket or finishing. Or he could make more impact. It could be improved when his strength improved. In fact, his dribbling and midrange are good but he just doesn’t like to settle with pull-up jumpers. That’s his style. He may adjust someday. Right now it seems he still likes to go to basket more. That’s nothing wrong, especially at the stage of his career. In fact, I like his style more than Wiggins. The dare, ball handling, midrange, length are all there. When his strength can match his style, he would be great.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:07 pm    Post subject:

LKA wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Imagine you are sitting in Staples and someone is calling Ingram trash all night long.

Is it their right? Sure, I suppose.

Do I want to listen to it? Not really.

Most trolling posters are bullies who will do it more and more if left unchallenged.

Most will give up if you ask them to defend their position.

It's their right to say what they want, but it's my right to question it... especially when unsupported by any sort of coherent arguments.


I pay my money like everybody else, if I see Ingram or anybody playing trash imma let it be known. And I have at the games.

I’m a real passionate fan bro. I’m not one of these people who are always feeling delighted even when Ingram shts the bed or we lose to the Cavaliers. But I guess that makes me a troll.

And it’s funny because most of the people who are quick to label another poster a troll are usually the ones that never give any type of insight or analysis. I only see them putting thumbs up and smileys in the thread after say BI has a good game. And when somebody like me calls him out for a bad game, their only response is claiming everyone as “negative trolls”.

Those are the ones that sound more like the troll to me.


If I heard you say good play or good game when he does something well... I'd have no issue with the comments.

It's your right to say it... but it's my right to differ.

He was bad last night and I said it.

I just hope the next time he has a good night, to maybe hear some positive comments.

Of course, it's your right to only praise Lonzo and only criticize BI... you can say what you want.

But when any opinion is one sided, I usually will comment if I'm reading it over and over again.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.

Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect.


I think the never ending whining about Ingram criticism perpetuates the issue. Especially when it resorts to calling people trolls for reasonable criticism. Yea, some people troll, but many(myself included) have been called trolls for reasonable criticism. Stop trying to put out a fire by pouring beer on it.


You are pretty strong willed and persistent... but most are not.

Also you have been giving pretty balanced takes since we last debated.

My point is that most trolls are too lazy to carry on if someone challenges their position.

I've been on the board a lot because the team has been struggling so it's no problem for me to debate a few trolls along the way.

If we start winning and get our second agent sorted... I'll happily go back to lurking more.


I think a better idea is to focus on your posting being about the game and not judging the reasonableness of people who disagree with you. But to each their own.


If there's no discussion or interaction... why use a message board?

You can do the traditional yelling at the screen or your family like others have done for generations then.
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