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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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 Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
I think the never ending whining about Ingram criticism perpetuates the issue. Especially when it resorts to calling people trolls for reasonable criticism. Yea, some people troll, but many(myself included) have been called trolls for reasonable criticism. Stop trying to put out a fire by pouring beer on it. |
You are pretty strong willed and persistent... but most are not.
Also you have been giving pretty balanced takes since we last debated.
My point is that most trolls are too lazy to carry on if someone challenges their position.
I've been on the board a lot because the team has been struggling so it's no problem for me to debate a few trolls along the way.
If we start winning and get our second agent sorted... I'll happily go back to lurking more. |
I think a better idea is to focus on your posting being about the game and not judging the reasonableness of people who disagree with you. But to each their own. |
If there's no discussion or interaction... why use a message board?
You can do the traditional yelling at the screen or your family like others have done for generations then. |
Because they want to and it’s their right. Doesn’t make it trolling. I don’t like it either, doesn’t matter though. |
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Interesting analogy.. It's flawed though.
You aren't purchasing what you hope or project that fine piece of machinery to be, it's already a finished project. Prospects aren't, they require refinement.
Second issue with your post is this idea you have of what Ingram will be, and making a definitive statement about it. It's still too early to say.
Now, the only argument I could see you making personally for yourself is that he hasn't measured up to your expectations of what a number 2 pick should be after 2 seasons. Which would really make it a personal matter, not one to project on others.
As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. Only thing that matters is their production, and rate of growth. |
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greek laker
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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i also think that his numbers are ok especially when you compare his numbers with the previous no2 picks. But i dont see a clear progress and even more i dont see a development plan for Brandon. Is he supposed to be a 3 and D player? Then where is his 3pt shot? Is he supposed to be a midrange specialist? Then where is his game into the 15ft area and the easy buckets? Since we got
LBJ i think the primary FO thought is Oh God please make Brandon play well enough so we can trade him. |
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LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Imagine you are sitting in Staples and someone is calling Ingram trash all night long.
Is it their right? Sure, I suppose.
Do I want to listen to it? Not really.
Most trolling posters are bullies who will do it more and more if left unchallenged.
Most will give up if you ask them to defend their position.
It's their right to say what they want, but it's my right to question it... especially when unsupported by any sort of coherent arguments. |
I pay my money like everybody else, if I see Ingram or anybody playing trash imma let it be known. And I have at the games.
I’m a real passionate fan bro. I’m not one of these people who are always feeling delighted even when Ingram shts the bed or we lose to the Cavaliers. But I guess that makes me a troll.
And it’s funny because most of the people who are quick to label another poster a troll are usually the ones that never give any type of insight or analysis. I only see them putting thumbs up and smileys in the thread after say BI has a good game. And when somebody like me calls him out for a bad game, their only response is claiming everyone as “negative trolls”.
Those are the ones that sound more like the troll to me. |
If I heard you say good play or good game when he does something well... I'd have no issue with the comments.
It's your right to say it... but it's my right to differ.
He was bad last night and I said it.
I just hope the next time he has a good night, to maybe hear some positive comments.
Of course, it's your right to only praise Lonzo and only criticize BI... you can say what you want.
But when any opinion is one sided, I usually will comment if I'm reading it over and over again. |
How can you say I only praise Lonzo? I’ve always been hard on him. Just like everybody else. I expect him to miss 1 freethrow terribly every time he goes to the line. As well as a wide open missed lay up every other game.
To me it sounds like the problem here is that you only notice the criticism of Brandon Ingram. Even tho Lonzo is far more criticized than Ingram by everyone beyond just Laker fans |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Somebody posted earlier that only 2 number two picks have been allstars in the last ten years or so and one of them went to his first all star game at 25. Sounds more like you overpaid for a Toyota because the car sells man tricked you into thinking it was as nice as a Porsche. A little patience and more reasonable expectations could help your takes. |
I won't take that personally.
Regardless of the number of previous #2 picks that have failed to make the ASG in the past 10 years, the expectation of them to do so is legitimate and reasonable.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. |
If they exceed expectations. If a lottery pick doesn’t live up to the hype they will always be reminded of what pick they were selected at.
Fair or not that’s just how it goes, always has .. |
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BigGameHames
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Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Somebody posted earlier that only 2 number two picks have been allstars in the last ten years or so and one of them went to his first all star game at 25. Sounds more like you overpaid for a Toyota because the car sells man tricked you into thinking it was as nice as a Porsche. A little patience and more reasonable expectations could help your takes. |
I won't take that personally.
Regardless of the number of previous #2 picks that have failed to make the ASG in the past 10 years, the expectation of them to do so is legitimate and reasonable. |
So you would think it’s fair if your boss said your were underperforming for not performing in the top 20% of all the people at your pay grade? Na it isn’t reasonable. |
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. |
If they exceed expectations. If a lottery pick doesn’t live up to the hype they will always be reminded of what pick they were selected at.
Fair or not that’s just how it goes, always has .. |
What I'm saying is does it matter?
Here's what matters.. Production..
Once you are in the NBA, your value to an organization is tied to what you produce. Even if you fall short of expectations, you will have no trouble finding employment if you can produce. In many respects it's a bit of a crap shoot.
I don't care about draft spots once a player is on the squad. It's irrelevant.
Is he helping us win? Is he improving? That's all I care about. |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Interesting analogy.. It's flawed though.
You aren't purchasing what you hope or project that fine piece of machinery to be, it's already a finished project. Prospects aren't, they require refinement.
Second issue with your post is this idea you have of what Ingram will be, and making a definitive statement about it. It's still too early to say.
Now, the only argument I could see you making personally for yourself is that he hasn't measured up to your expectations of what a number 2 pick should be after 2 seasons. Which would really make it a personal matter, not one to project on others.
As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. Only thing that matters is their production, and rate of growth. |
So by that logic, when the Boston Celtics traded 7X All-Star/4X All-NBA/future Hall of Famer Ed Macauley and 6X All-Star/3X All-NBA/future Hall of Famer Cliff Hagan for the 2nd pick of the 1956 draft (Bill Russell), they should've been satisfied if Russell developed into a solid C like Red Kerr, regardless of the price paid and players they passed up to draft him.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. |
If they exceed expectations. If a lottery pick doesn’t live up to the hype they will always be reminded of what pick they were selected at.
Fair or not that’s just how it goes, always has .. |
What I'm saying is does it matter?
Here's what matters.. Production..
Once you are in the NBA, your value to an organization is tied to what you produce. Even if you fall short of expectations, you will have no trouble finding employment if you can produce. In many respects it's a bit of a crap shoot.
I don't care about draft spots once a player is on the squad. It's irrelevant.
Is he helping us win? Is he improving? That's all I care about. |
I would say Brandon isn’t improving. His numbers are down in early every category from last season. Basic and advanced stats |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | LKA wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | Imagine you are sitting in Staples and someone is calling Ingram trash all night long.
Is it their right? Sure, I suppose.
Do I want to listen to it? Not really.
Most trolling posters are bullies who will do it more and more if left unchallenged.
Most will give up if you ask them to defend their position.
It's their right to say what they want, but it's my right to question it... especially when unsupported by any sort of coherent arguments. |
I pay my money like everybody else, if I see Ingram or anybody playing trash imma let it be known. And I have at the games.
I’m a real passionate fan bro. I’m not one of these people who are always feeling delighted even when Ingram shts the bed or we lose to the Cavaliers. But I guess that makes me a troll.
And it’s funny because most of the people who are quick to label another poster a troll are usually the ones that never give any type of insight or analysis. I only see them putting thumbs up and smileys in the thread after say BI has a good game. And when somebody like me calls him out for a bad game, their only response is claiming everyone as “negative trolls”.
Those are the ones that sound more like the troll to me. |
If I heard you say good play or good game when he does something well... I'd have no issue with the comments.
It's your right to say it... but it's my right to differ.
He was bad last night and I said it.
I just hope the next time he has a good night, to maybe hear some positive comments.
Of course, it's your right to only praise Lonzo and only criticize BI... you can say what you want.
But when any opinion is one sided, I usually will comment if I'm reading it over and over again. |
How can you say I only praise Lonzo? I’ve always been hard on him. Just like everybody else. I expect him to miss 1 freethrow terribly every time he goes to the line. As well as a wide open missed lay up every other game.
To me it sounds like the problem here is that you only notice the criticism of Brandon Ingram. Even tho Lonzo is far more criticized than Ingram by everyone beyond just Laker fans |
Because at least I've seen you praise him.
Again... you can say what you want.
But if I see five people harping on one guy... I usually will offer a counter unless the guy is truly terrible.
I like Lonzo, Kuzma, and Ingram... but I see the benefits and shortcomings of all of them.
My main focus is the welfare of the Lakers so I usually defend him because I don't want to trade him with a pile of assets for AD.
If we traded him for Beal I'd totally respect that move... if we knew Kawhi Kyrie, and KD didn't want to come for free.
We need a shooter and scoring more than what Ingram can offer at this stage.
However, for me the ideal is to sign the second agent... keep the core... and analyze where he is at the end of next season.
If he's the same... we let him go like Randle... if he's significantly improved... maybe we invest in him.
Same goes for Zubac.
But the main motivation for my posts is to keep most of the core... which I believe will be better for the team in the long run. |
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Flawed argument.
You're assuming that a Porsche 991 GT2 RS is available every year.
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG
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Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. Only thing that matters is their production, and rate of growth.
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VERY MUCH THIS.
The assumption that there's a wealth of franchise players at the top of the draft is just a poor one.
How'd that 2000 draft work for everyone?
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Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Interesting analogy.. It's flawed though.
You aren't purchasing what you hope or project that fine piece of machinery to be, it's already a finished project. Prospects aren't, they require refinement.
Second issue with your post is this idea you have of what Ingram will be, and making a definitive statement about it. It's still too early to say.
Now, the only argument I could see you making personally for yourself is that he hasn't measured up to your expectations of what a number 2 pick should be after 2 seasons. Which would really make it a personal matter, not one to project on others.
As far as I'm concerned once a player is drafted, his draft position becomes irrelevant. Only thing that matters is their production, and rate of growth. |
So by that logic, when the Boston Celtics traded 7X All-Star/4X All-NBA/future Hall of Famer Ed Macauley and 6X All-Star/3X All-NBA/future Hall of Famer Cliff Hagan for the 2nd pick of the 1956 draft (Bill Russell), they should've been satisfied if Russell developed into a solid C like Red Kerr, regardless of the price paid and players they passed up to draft him. |
By bolding the latter portion of my response I take it as an admission that your car analogy was flawed.
I think you're still missing it boss.. I didn't say anything about being satisfied with mediocrity. You also change the premise of the argument when you're talking about a trade that doesn't pan out. That's not the situation here. We're talking about raw, partially developed commodities. There are no assurances or guarantees under those conditions.
Am I saying we shouldn't expect a reasonable return on a number 2 investment? No.. but if we were to look at historical data on how a number 2 pick performs and produces, I'd say Ingram is doing pretty okay.
We are all a bit spoiled as Lakers fans.. how often have we had to wait for homegrown talent to fully develop? It's not something we are accustomed to, it's ugly and requires patience. |
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LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Flawed argument.
You're assuming that a Porsche 991 GT2 RS is available every year. |
Lmao. Gotta give you this one. |
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Lazlow
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jan 2019
Posts: 345
Location: Cypress, California
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Doc JC wrote: | BI’s only issue is his age IMO. He is slowly progressing in all facets of his game. He’s still just 21 and you guys want superstar production already. He hasn’t even matured into his body, let alone his game.
Like it or not, he needs time.
They all do. |
Yes. If by some miracle the best scenario pans out and we can get a superstar through free agency instead of trade then we can see about this "infinite ceiling" that is talked about. We would compete next year and hopefully some of the young core turns into all-stars to go along with the superstar free agent, post lebron.
But in all liklihood we aren't going to get one and will have to part ways with some of them. Even though we've refused to in the past for Boogie, PG, and Kawhi. We will have to trade most of them and of those should be Ingram. Because we need to compete right now with Lebron. If we are banking on Ingram turning into this Giannis/Durant in the future than we will have a very bleak future.
The fact of the matter is that he is just decent at most aspects of the game. This isn't proof by any means whatever so but I mean just look at NBA 2k. Ingram has a C- rating through B- rating on every single one of his stats. And is "versatile offensive wing". That is the definition of average. And it reflects in his game in real life. He is not some great scorer or shooter. Dude has like 1, 30 point game in his career. He is afraid to shoot 3's at this point. Can shoot mid range shots ok and has a few moves that he can go to while at the elbow of the paint. Pretty average. His defense can be effective in certain instances but he isn't some Klay Thompson that guards the best player every night. Hell, he isn't even at Lonzo's level. His attacking the basket is probably the easiest to see. Sure there are times he he just stretches out his arm and banks in layups and looks easy, but often he gets outmuscled or turns the ball over. Again there is nothing spectacular about his drives though they may be the best thing he offers. I wouldn't even feel comfortable with him being a #4 option. Maybe a 6th man but that's what I see.
This isn't a troll post or a Lonzo/Kuzma fan going after him. This is just a realist looking at this roster for the now and the future. |
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LKA
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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Sentient, I just wanna say I’m sorry for being hard on Ingram.
See he’s kinda like my 2017 Audi s5
I like it but I wish it was the RS7.  |
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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Flawed argument.
You're assuming that a Porsche 991 GT2 RS is available every year. |
Lovin the Porsche talk. GT2 RS is a beast.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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Darth Los Angeles
Star Player
Joined: 06 Dec 2011
Posts: 2181
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:54 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram was expected to be special.
Patience should be expected. However, Ingram has yet to flash any semblance of being special. I'm not even sure what I am expected to be looking forward to with Ingram anymore?
Am I waiting on him to become a shooter? A rebounder? A defender? A play-maker?
I am convinced he's a goner. The whole notion of him being a stud in the making is large reason why Magic wasn't aggressive in pursuing Paul George.
I feel duped...
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“There are no limits. There are plateaus, but you must not stay there, you must go beyond them. If it kills you, it kills you. A man must constantly exceed his level.” ―Bruce Lee |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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| LKA wrote: | Sentient, I just wanna say I’m sorry for being hard on Ingram.
See he’s kinda like my 2017 Audi s5
I like it but I wish it was the RS7. |
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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Darth Los Angeles wrote: | Ingram was expected to be special.
Patience should be expected. However, Ingram has yet to flash any semblance of being special. I'm not even sure what I am expected to be looking forward to with Ingram anymore?
Am I waiting on him to become a shooter? A rebounder? A defender? A play-maker?
I am convinced he's a goner. The whole notion of him being a stud in the making is large reason why Magic wasn't aggressive in pursuing Paul George.
I feel duped... |
When we got him, I knew the KD talk was nonsense, but was hoping for a PG/Butler-type two-way stud. Now, I'm thinking he'll be closer to a Lamar Odom-type.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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KeepItRealOrElse
Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | Ingram was expected to be special.
Patience should be expected. However, Ingram has yet to flash any semblance of being special. I'm not even sure what I am expected to be looking forward to with Ingram anymore?
Am I waiting on him to become a shooter? A rebounder? A defender? A play-maker?
I am convinced he's a goner. The whole notion of him being a stud in the making is large reason why Magic wasn't aggressive in pursuing Paul George.
I feel duped... |
When we got him, I knew the KD talk was nonsense, but was hoping for a PG/Butler-type two-way stud. Now, I'm thinking he'll be closer to a Lamar Odom-type. |
not our fault his jumper disappeared into the mist |
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24Legend007
Star Player
Joined: 05 May 2018
Posts: 1789
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Darth Los Angeles wrote: | Ingram was expected to be special.
Patience should be expected. However, Ingram has yet to flash any semblance of being special. I'm not even sure what I am expected to be looking forward to with Ingram anymore?
Am I waiting on him to become a shooter? A rebounder? A defender? A play-maker?
I am convinced he's a goner. The whole notion of him being a stud in the making is large reason why Magic wasn't aggressive in pursuing Paul George.
I feel duped... |
When we got him, I knew the KD talk was nonsense, but was hoping for a PG/Butler-type two-way stud. Now, I'm thinking he'll be closer to a Lamar Odom-type. |
Brandon Ingram is better then Paul George at about the same age imo.
I know advanced stats could prove me wrong but George was not special at Brandon's age imo.
And I will even take it back and say George was better but it was not by some huge glaring difference.
I used to think BI could be a scorer, I do think he should just focus on being our defensive specialists, he has the tools for that.
We give George alot of props but he really has done nothing in the nba player perspective. And I;m a George fan, I wanted him to beat Lebron, but he is at best a #2 probably a #3.
I will say it looks like Brandon's ceiling is maybe a #3. I think this is where we get caught up in scoring to much as well. I do think BI is every bit of the defender George could ever be. |
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Mike@LG
Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Flawed argument.
You're assuming that a Porsche 991 GT2 RS is available every year. |
Lovin the Porsche talk. GT2 RS is a beast. |
Out of the thousands of cars I've driven, Porsche is definitely my favorite brand.
I get dumb excited when Laker players buy them for personal vehicles.
But if BI is a Porsche, it's the 2019 Cayenne. Practical, versatile at a lot of different things, not a specialist at any one thing, but every family needs that kind of practicality. Slightly misplaced in the Porsche lineup.
_________________
Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Zillethai
Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2017
Posts: 1032
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| Posted: Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | For some he will remain under the cloud of expectation, so they can justify the same criticisms.
Others have accepted the reality of what he is, and are celebrating the growth and maturation of an NBA prospect. |
If you pay $293,200 and order a new Porsche 911 GT2 RS and you are given a new Toyota 86 TRD SE that costs $32,420, you have a right to be pissed. The Toyota is a great little sports car, lots of get up and go . . . but it's not the same as the Porsche: you overpaid and you didn't get what you ordered.
We invested in the #2 pick in the draft. What we expected was a perennial All-Star in the making. BI is a credible NBA player/starter. But he's not what we wanted with the #2 pick. |
Flawed logic.
In your scenario, the car buyer literally did not get what he ordered. He ordered A and received B. Of course he is going to be pissed. According to your analogy. Magic drafts Ingram, and on the first day of practice, Tom Brady shows up. |
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