OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:44 pm    Post subject:

I've thought he was a bad to ok defender for 3 years now. I just don't like to argue about it too much. I think Kuzma is l worse though.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:47 pm    Post subject:

I agree it's a motor issue with BI, unfortunately that is not something people tend to improve on a whole lot. No motor and below avg quickness is not a good combo.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Lazlow wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
He might eventually reach Odom-like "swiss army knife" versatility in everything except rebounding imo. Prime Lamar was a beast on the boards.

Absolutely. Right now he is literally below average to average at every single aspect of the game. But if he can get good/solid at those things (doesn't need to be great) then he would be a solid addition to this team.

If we can get a free agent this summer that is a max player, then yes we can give him time to develop into this. However this is risky in of itself. We have already missed out on several superstars in trades for him, it is entirely possible that he does not pan out to be a Lamar Odom level player and we end up screwed. I"m not sure we can afford to keep doing this. At a certain point we are going to be looking foolish beyond belief if we keep clinging onto this fool's gold.


Top 50 scorers out of 450 score more than 17.6

Ingram scores 16.3 (currently 59th)

Top 100 scorers score more than 13.4

Top 150 scorers score more than 10.3

So this means the upper third of scorers average 10 points per game.

Doesn't average mean the middle?

The median NBA player scores 7.5 PPG

But wait... you boldly declared he was below average.

So that would mean below 7.5... no?

He's currently 59th... so even if you meant average for starters... he's even above that in scoring.

Rebounds?

He's currently 106th out of 450 at 4.9

Median? 3.2

Is he 3.2 RPG... nope...he average 50% more than the average.

But there's more... how many shooting guards rebound more than Ingram?

4.

So he ranks 5th among shooting guards for rebounds... which is where he played the most this season.

You can say you don't like the guy... you can say he's not a good fit... you can say you don't believe he'll become an all star. You can say he's a disappointment to you.

But to say he's below average to average at everything is measurably untrue.

Just say you don't like him... nothing wrong with that.

But don't make false claims when you simply don't care for a player.


You are legit full of horse (bleep). You are including reserves, bench players, players on two way contracts, and players that do not match his position. Is anyone impressed if he averages 1 or 2 more rebounds than your typical point guard? Look at all the stats you gave and the only thing that gives any semblance of a hole in what I said is his point per game. Yes. Brandon Ingram can score 16 points on 13-14 shots a game. Congratulations. Do you think the people scoring below him are getting the same amount of shots? Of course not. Your stats you brought up did not help your case in the slightest, but the funny thing was that I wasn't even discussing it in terms of that.

Take off the rose tinted glasses and eye test him. Is he a good to great shooter? No he isn't. He's decent at best. Afraid to shoot 3's and has a couple moves he can go to at the elbow of the paint. Is his attacking the basket good to great? Debatable. His high turnovers would suggest no. Look at his rebounding. Nothing special. Just standard stuff. He'll get you around 5, nothing out of the ordinary for a 2-3 player. Passing? I don't see any gamechanging passes like I do from Lonzo. You want to bring numbers into his asst-TO ratio is dog (bleep) for a "playmaker". The only semblance of redeeming quality that you can see and is backed up by numbers is his defense.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject:

Inverse wrote:
Some people in this thread have their heads so far up their asses

BI is developing fine and has come a long way since his rookie season

I thought that five minute stretch he had in overtime was the best offensive stretch we’ve seen from him and is a sneak peak into what he can look like if he reaches his potential. He hit turn around fade-aways, dribble pull ups, and knocked down a 3, all while creating the looks by himself when the pressure was on the most.

His free throw shooting is even looking better. This kid will be fine

Not impressive. Having a historically terrible rookie season and then playing like an NBA caliber player isn't some growth to be in awe of.

Ingram: rookie season per 100 possession: 14.3pts/7.2reb/3.4ast on 37/30/67 splits, ORTG of 95, DRTG of 115, BPM of -4.2, TS% of 45.7, -5.37 RPM

Anthony Bennett per 100 possession: 16.9pts/12.1reb/1.7ast on 36/24/64 splits/ ORTG of 88, DRTG of 107, BPM of -7.3, TS% of 42.5, -4.71 RPM

The "fool's gold" Ingram is getting to you. You are being tricked by a "flash" or "glimpse". Kwame Brown had those and they are documented on youtube. Even he has highlight videos. Not saying he is as bad though.

Brandon Ingram simply is just how Dwight Howard was. Fool's Gold. Everyone thought Dwight was the guy you would start a franchise with. The cornerstone of any team. Then the Lakers and Rockets found out the hard way of what a coach killer and detriment to a team he is. Similar to people preach and tell us about how the sky is the limit for this kid when in reality he's shown little to nothing. Saying he is only 21 is the worst cop out response one could give to the criticism he faces. You all realize that Austin Rivers the college phenom had people doing the same thing right? Where is he now?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:59 pm    Post subject:

Brandon Ingram had 21 points on 7/12 shooting, 5 rebounds and 4 assists and played good defense. That's a good stat line. What are people's problems again?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:07 pm    Post subject:

time to step up son. play w some juice
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:16 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Hot take Sunday. Sheesh.

These comments are always funny. People think its hyperbole or just overreacting to a single game, but no. This is his body of work and what he brings to the table. This is legit the last year we can get a decent haul for this dude before every GM and their mom writes him off as a Darius Miles.

Please name me a single thing he is GOOD at. Not decent. I'm talking good or great. Like Lonzo is a GOOD defender and playmaker. Lebron is GREAT at
attacking the basket.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:22 pm    Post subject:

Outspoken wrote:
LakerLogic wrote:
I think some are focusing too much on scoring. His shot has a long way to go.

His main issue to me is motor and energy level. He's also not particularly fast to the ball which somewhat negates his length.

Good FT shooting the last 2 games. Keep that up.


Some fans are just haters. People said that they wanted BI to play make more, he's racking up assists. They said they wanted him to play within the flow of the offense, he is doing that. They wanted him to work on his free throws, he has had good free throw shooting nights. I guess now, they want him to break the offense to score a lot.... If it isn't one thing, it is another. Some point out things, just to hate on BI, while some fans are objective.

You know what you are doing here. You aren't being slick. Brandon Ingram plays like absolute dog (bleep) and you say "well you guys wanted him to playmake, look he had an 11 assist game and a 7 assist game" Ignore the fg% and turnovers btw.

Sorry no. Dude is playing like garbage because he is barely a starter caliber player. I noticed that Lonzo fans never got to be excused and say he didn't shoot well but did other things. Ingram will not get that privilege either, especially since he is a turnover, ball stopping machine.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:27 pm    Post subject:

Lazlow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hot take Sunday. Sheesh.

These comments are always funny. People think its hyperbole or just overreacting to a single game, but no. This is his body of work and what he brings to the table. This is legit the last year we can get a decent haul for this dude before every GM and their mom writes him off as a Darius Miles.

Please name me a single thing he is GOOD at. Not decent. I'm talking good or great. Like Lonzo is a GOOD defender and playmaker. Lebron is GREAT at
attacking the basket.


It looks to me like he hasn't fully grown into his body yet. What I mean by that is he's so lanky he gets in the way of his own limbs at times. He's got horrid handles right now but that'll improve.

The thing I love about Ingram is what he showed in OT. He shot 7/12 and a lot of those were contested mid range, but to him they aren't contested. He can just rise over people and knock down that jumper. He's good right now at that, he'll be great in a few more years once he knows to use his length more. He's also a good one on one defender because his length is disruptive
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
"I'm not an Ingram guy.


Why did he put this in his analysis. Don't see what it adds.
It's almost like he's baiting a response.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:35 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Lazlow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hot take Sunday. Sheesh.

These comments are always funny. People think its hyperbole or just overreacting to a single game, but no. This is his body of work and what he brings to the table. This is legit the last year we can get a decent haul for this dude before every GM and their mom writes him off as a Darius Miles.

Please name me a single thing he is GOOD at. Not decent. I'm talking good or great. Like Lonzo is a GOOD defender and playmaker. Lebron is GREAT at
attacking the basket.


It looks to me like he hasn't fully grown into his body yet. What I mean by that is he's so lanky he gets in the way of his own limbs at times. He's got horrid handles right now but that'll improve.

The thing I love about Ingram is what he showed in OT. He shot 7/12 and a lot of those were contested mid range, but to him they aren't contested. He can just rise over people and knock down that jumper. He's good right now at that, he'll be great in a few more years once he knows to use his length more. He's also a good one on one defender because his length is disruptive

I agree with your assessment. I saw his shot over Austin Rivers and it looked effortless for him. But where we disagree is about giving him time. I am not as confident as you are that he will develop into a great player. With Kawhi Leonard and Paul George having MVP esque seasons while we have Ingram doing what he did for four quarters.. It makes it difficult to not just flip him for Beal or anything else we can get.

But if what you say happens then we can really do well. If he signs a 10-15 mil extension with the Lakers for 3 years or something and breaks out then yeah we can really use that to our advantage and craft a big time team. But I'm not sure how that will go down if Clarkson was like 13 mil, idk how much this kid will want. How much would you pay for him?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject:

Around 10 mil sounds about right to me. Still a "prospect" who does a good job but not having broken out yet. Kuz is the one who's in danger of being overpaid next contract imo. I mean Kuz is on peanuts now so he'll want to be paid, and everyone's talking about him as a legitimate number 2 and future star while everyone still talks about Ingram as a disappointment. So I think we can get Ingram on a good deal next time, but Kuz will want to be paid imo.

But I don't know how this all plays out with Magic's plan to get 2 or 3 max contract superstars I'd really rather just get a 2nd all star in FA and build our youth
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 5:49 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Around 10 mil sounds about right to me. Still a "prospect" who does a good job but not having broken out yet. Kuz is the one who's in danger of being overpaid next contract imo. I mean Kuz is on peanuts now so he'll want to be paid, and everyone's talking about him as a legitimate number 2 and future star while everyone still talks about Ingram as a disappointment. So I think we can get Ingram on a good deal next time, but Kuz will want to be paid imo.

But I don't know how this all plays out with Magic's plan to get 2 or 3 max contract superstars I'd really rather just get a 2nd all star in FA and build our youth


I'm sure the plan is to sign a 2nd max star and then keep ALL of our young guys regardless of how much their next contracts are gonna be worth. Unless we trade them for AD of course.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:01 pm    Post subject:

Lazlow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hot take Sunday. Sheesh.

These comments are always funny. People think its hyperbole or just overreacting to a single game, but no. This is his body of work and what he brings to the table. This is legit the last year we can get a decent haul for this dude before every GM and their mom writes him off as a Darius Miles.

Please name me a single thing he is GOOD at. Not decent. I'm talking good or great. Like Lonzo is a GOOD defender and playmaker. Lebron is GREAT at
attacking the basket.


Not coming to LG and taking a dump on every poster in every thread with a clear hater agenda against the team he claims to support?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 6:19 pm    Post subject:

These are my hopes/expectations for Ingram for the rest of the year.
1) Stay healthy.
2) Figure out how to use his length optimally to challenge shots and rebound.
3) Overachieve in the playoffs by punishing bigs and littles off the switch.

I think all 3 goals are easily achievable. But heck what do I know. I didn't think Lebron was coming last summer.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:08 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
Lazlow wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Hot take Sunday. Sheesh.

These comments are always funny. People think its hyperbole or just overreacting to a single game, but no. This is his body of work and what he brings to the table. This is legit the last year we can get a decent haul for this dude before every GM and their mom writes him off as a Darius Miles.

Please name me a single thing he is GOOD at. Not decent. I'm talking good or great. Like Lonzo is a GOOD defender and playmaker. Lebron is GREAT at
attacking the basket.


Not coming to LG and taking a dump on every poster in every thread with a clear hater agenda against the team he claims to support?


So because I've stated and explained why this team would be better in the now and future by moving on from Ingram it means I "have a hate agenda against this team"?

Perhaps its just people like you getting too emotionally attached to players. But in the end it doesn't really matter. We all want what is best for this team.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:36 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
These are my hopes/expectations for Ingram for the rest of the year.
1) Stay healthy.
2) Figure out how to use his length optimally to challenge shots and rebound.
3) Overachieve in the playoffs by punishing bigs and littles off the switch.

I think all 3 goals are easily achievable. But heck what do I know. I didn't think Lebron was coming last summer.


This is like my boss saying: you have to show up everyday to work.

V high level and v vague expectations
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Lazlow wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Lazlow wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
He might eventually reach Odom-like "swiss army knife" versatility in everything except rebounding imo. Prime Lamar was a beast on the boards.

Absolutely. Right now he is literally below average to average at every single aspect of the game. But if he can get good/solid at those things (doesn't need to be great) then he would be a solid addition to this team.

If we can get a free agent this summer that is a max player, then yes we can give him time to develop into this. However this is risky in of itself. We have already missed out on several superstars in trades for him, it is entirely possible that he does not pan out to be a Lamar Odom level player and we end up screwed. I"m not sure we can afford to keep doing this. At a certain point we are going to be looking foolish beyond belief if we keep clinging onto this fool's gold.


Top 50 scorers out of 450 score more than 17.6

Ingram scores 16.3 (currently 59th)

Top 100 scorers score more than 13.4

Top 150 scorers score more than 10.3

So this means the upper third of scorers average 10 points per game.

Doesn't average mean the middle?

The median NBA player scores 7.5 PPG

But wait... you boldly declared he was below average.

So that would mean below 7.5... no?

He's currently 59th... so even if you meant average for starters... he's even above that in scoring.

Rebounds?

He's currently 106th out of 450 at 4.9

Median? 3.2

Is he 3.2 RPG... nope...he average 50% more than the average.

But there's more... how many shooting guards rebound more than Ingram?

4.

So he ranks 5th among shooting guards for rebounds... which is where he played the most this season.

You can say you don't like the guy... you can say he's not a good fit... you can say you don't believe he'll become an all star. You can say he's a disappointment to you.

But to say he's below average to average at everything is measurably untrue.

Just say you don't like him... nothing wrong with that.

But don't make false claims when you simply don't care for a player.


You are legit full of horse (bleep). You are including reserves, bench players, players on two way contracts, and players that do not match his position. Is anyone impressed if he averages 1 or 2 more rebounds than your typical point guard? Look at all the stats you gave and the only thing that gives any semblance of a hole in what I said is his point per game. Yes. Brandon Ingram can score 16 points on 13-14 shots a game. Congratulations. Do you think the people scoring below him are getting the same amount of shots? Of course not. Your stats you brought up did not help your case in the slightest, but the funny thing was that I wasn't even discussing it in terms of that.

Take off the rose tinted glasses and eye test him. Is he a good to great shooter? No he isn't. He's decent at best. Afraid to shoot 3's and has a couple moves he can go to at the elbow of the paint. Is his attacking the basket good to great? Debatable. His high turnovers would suggest no. Look at his rebounding. Nothing special. Just standard stuff. He'll get you around 5, nothing out of the ordinary for a 2-3 player. Passing? I don't see any gamechanging passes like I do from Lonzo. You want to bring numbers into his asst-TO ratio is dog (bleep) for a "playmaker". The only semblance of redeeming quality that you can see and is backed up by numbers is his defense.


If you are around in a year from now... I'll take more seriously your agenda as something other than an anti Ingram rant.

If some guy comes and posts a high volume of hot takes targeting one player, my automatic assumption is that he's an alt who wants to get some frustrations off of his chest.

Kuzma made three or four terrible plays last night... I said nothing.

You said nothing.

If you criticized all the players... I'd respect what you were doing here, but when you focus on one... I have to take the comments with a grain of salt.

I thought Ingram was bad until the overtime. I conceded as much... but when he did well... there was no genuine joy at one of our players doing well... only more reasons and excuses why we should get rid of him.

If I see some loyalty and longevity in your posts... if I see a broader variety of topics... then maybe I might think you care about something more than trashing Ingram.

But your posts have the feel of an old veteran poster just going off... and then fading into oblivion if he starts doing well... or gloating and then leaving if he gets traded.

It's a free country and free message board so you can say what you like Lakers related.

But so can I, and I probably will as long as the monotonous slanderfest continues.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:00 pm    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
BI will never be a major piece on a championship team. He brings too many liabilities and refuses to play within his means.

When you actually stop and think about it, you are actually right. You are either a star player that does many thing well or you are a roleplayer that brings something to the table.

GSW have their 2 star players and then they have the best 3 and D player Klay and a lockdown defender in Green etc.

That Miami Heat team had its star players and had sharpshooters, 3 and D players, rim protectors, and Mario Chalmers.

Brandon Ingram isn't a star player. Nor does he bring anything significant to the team. Players like this ultimately end up as overpaid starters on mickey mouse teams or they come off the bench to play against 2nd units.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject:

Lazlow wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
BI will never be a major piece on a championship team. He brings too many liabilities and refuses to play within his means.

When you actually stop and think about it, you are actually right. You are either a star player that does many thing well or you are a roleplayer that brings something to the table.

GSW have their 2 star players and then they have the best 3 and D player Klay and a lockdown defender in Green etc.

That Miami Heat team had its star players and had sharpshooters, 3 and D players, rim protectors, and Mario Chalmers.

Brandon Ingram isn't a star player. Nor does he bring anything significant to the team. Players like this ultimately end up as overpaid starters on mickey mouse teams or they come off the bench to play against 2nd units.


He's a shot creator, you can pass him the ball and he can create his own shot (because of his length and the mid range). That's incredibly valuable right now on the Lakers because he's our only youngster that can do that. Kuzma is a scorer but he plays his best playing off a playmaker whereas pass the ball to Ingram when the Lakers are in shot clock trouble and everyone's guarded and he can just do a turnaround jumper over his defender to create an opportunity

Lance can do that but he's on a one year contract. Beasley can do that but again one year contract. Rondo same. The only person who's here long term that can do that is Lebron
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 9:40 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Brandon Ingram had 21 points on 7/12 shooting, 5 rebounds and 4 assists and played good defense. That's a good stat line. What are people's problems again?


I only had an issue with his 6 TOs
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:27 pm    Post subject:

I fear the coming games. You know Luke is going to put the ball in Ingram's hands beause for some reason this organization thinks Ingram can be the primary ballhandler. And it hasn't turned out well this season when that happens.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:31 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Lazlow wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
BI will never be a major piece on a championship team. He brings too many liabilities and refuses to play within his means.

When you actually stop and think about it, you are actually right. You are either a star player that does many thing well or you are a roleplayer that brings something to the table.

GSW have their 2 star players and then they have the best 3 and D player Klay and a lockdown defender in Green etc.

That Miami Heat team had its star players and had sharpshooters, 3 and D players, rim protectors, and Mario Chalmers.

Brandon Ingram isn't a star player. Nor does he bring anything significant to the team. Players like this ultimately end up as overpaid starters on mickey mouse teams or they come off the bench to play against 2nd units.


He's a shot creator, you can pass him the ball and he can create his own shot (because of his length and the mid range). That's incredibly valuable right now on the Lakers because he's our only youngster that can do that. Kuzma is a scorer but he plays his best playing off a playmaker whereas pass the ball to Ingram when the Lakers are in shot clock trouble and everyone's guarded and he can just do a turnaround jumper over his defender to create an opportunity

Lance can do that but he's on a one year contract. Beasley can do that but again one year contract. Rondo same. The only person who's here long term that can do that is Lebron


wrong. kuzma can create his own shot but does better with decent shooters around him so he has space to operate. i'd take a kuzma running floater or pull up 3 any day of the week over ingram's contested midrange jumpers or blocked/fumbled layup attempts.
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PICKnPOP
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject:

I think having a 3rd option that can give you 16 a game is pretty good. He’s pretty much always going to have a matchup advantage in the playoffs with Guards trying to defend him. Lebron will be back soon and Lonzo will rest for a month. Rondo will be back soon too. We should be pretty damn rested for the playoffs tbh. I’m ok with how things are playing out since I’m a fan of resting players for big chunks of the season. I want us fresh for the playoffs
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drae
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject:

matrixskillz wrote:
drae wrote:
Lazlow wrote:
matrixskillz wrote:
BI will never be a major piece on a championship team. He brings too many liabilities and refuses to play within his means.

When you actually stop and think about it, you are actually right. You are either a star player that does many thing well or you are a roleplayer that brings something to the table.

GSW have their 2 star players and then they have the best 3 and D player Klay and a lockdown defender in Green etc.

That Miami Heat team had its star players and had sharpshooters, 3 and D players, rim protectors, and Mario Chalmers.

Brandon Ingram isn't a star player. Nor does he bring anything significant to the team. Players like this ultimately end up as overpaid starters on mickey mouse teams or they come off the bench to play against 2nd units.


He's a shot creator, you can pass him the ball and he can create his own shot (because of his length and the mid range). That's incredibly valuable right now on the Lakers because he's our only youngster that can do that. Kuzma is a scorer but he plays his best playing off a playmaker whereas pass the ball to Ingram when the Lakers are in shot clock trouble and everyone's guarded and he can just do a turnaround jumper over his defender to create an opportunity

Lance can do that but he's on a one year contract. Beasley can do that but again one year contract. Rondo same. The only person who's here long term that can do that is Lebron


wrong. kuzma can create his own shot but does better with decent shooters around him so he has space to operate. i'd take a kuzma running floater or pull up 3 any day of the week over ingram's contested midrange jumpers or blocked/fumbled layup attempts.


Taking a pull up 3 isn't creating his own shot, it's taking a shot when the space is already there. Same for many of his running floaters. When someone's right on him, like Tucker, he can't constantly create the space he needs to take a reliable shot.

My point is that Ingram can constantly create the space he needs merely because he can rise over anyone in the midrange. So when something needs to be created from nothing, Ingram's a better operator than Kuzma
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