OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
MJST wrote:
Magic Johnson Says D'Angelo Russell & Brandon Ingram Are Franchise Cornerstones



That is what he's supposed to say.. he's not gonna throw them under the bus and tell the world that they can be traded. He's supposed to support them no matter what the narrative is.


But he didn't say that at all. It's a clickbait title

Magic says ingram is probably the only untouchable player, but thinks russell randle and nance can be special, and clarkson a great defender.


Yeah, he can be building there trade value.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
epak wrote:
Quote:
"Well I would say probably the only player that we would say "hey that we would probably not move" is Brandon Ingram. You know, I think that we're excited about Brandon. His length, his size, his agility, his athleticism. And then when you think about, you know, he was a baby coming in in his first year last season. And we see that he really has a high ceiling and we're excited about what he can possibly turn into. He has that type of talent.
...
But when you talk about untouchables probably Brandon is the guy that we probably won't even think about moving. Ever." - Magic Man




Don't like his quote?


seems like others are having a hard time understanding it...
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject:

This will either go down as "Magic Johnson saw potential from BI since he came, and look at him becoming a Lakers legend" or "LMAO, remember when Brandon Ingram was considered untouchable"
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:27 pm    Post subject:

LilJay24 wrote:
This will either go down as "Magic Johnson saw potential from BI since he came, and look at him becoming a Lakers legend" or "LMAO, remember when Brandon Ingram was considered untouchable"


I don't know.. He could end up being a solid asset without being considered a legend, or a bust.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject:

VicXLakers wrote:
epak wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
epak wrote:
Quote:
"Well I would say probably the only player that we would say "hey that we would probably not move" is Brandon Ingram. You know, I think that we're excited about Brandon. His length, his size, his agility, his athleticism. And then when you think about, you know, he was a baby coming in in his first year last season. And we see that he really has a high ceiling and we're excited about what he can possibly turn into. He has that type of talent.
...
But when you talk about untouchables probably Brandon is the guy that we probably won't even think about moving. Ever." - Magic Man




Don't like his quote?


seems like others are having a hard time understanding it...


What's so hard to understand...

Magic values Ingram over any other player currently on our roster.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
epak wrote:
VicXLakers wrote:
epak wrote:
Quote:
"Well I would say probably the only player that we would say "hey that we would probably not move" is Brandon Ingram. You know, I think that we're excited about Brandon. His length, his size, his agility, his athleticism. And then when you think about, you know, he was a baby coming in in his first year last season. And we see that he really has a high ceiling and we're excited about what he can possibly turn into. He has that type of talent.
...
But when you talk about untouchables probably Brandon is the guy that we probably won't even think about moving. Ever." - Magic Man




Don't like his quote?


seems like others are having a hard time understanding it...


What's so hard to understand...

Magic values Ingram over any other player currently on our roster.


I get it...many others are having a hard time with it
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject:

^As he should, IMO, but that doesn't mean he should say that aloud. That quote is likely pretty discouraging to everyone else. Even if you want to put a fire under their butts, you do it privately and not through the media.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Those guys on the roster are more informed than we are. I'm sure they already understand they aren't untouchable. Even Ingram knows he's available for the right package.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^As he should, IMO, but that doesn't mean he should say that aloud. That quote is likely pretty discouraging to everyone else. Even if you want to put a fire under their butts, you do it privately and not through the media.


That's an opinion, there's plenty of different ways of putting a fire under their butts. Phil would often say stuff to the media in order to make (bleep) happen
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^As he should, IMO, but that doesn't mean he should say that aloud. That quote is likely pretty discouraging to everyone else. Even if you want to put a fire under their butts, you do it privately and not through the media.


You are assuming that Magic thinks before speaking. I am not sure that is the case.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:07 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^As he should, IMO, but that doesn't mean he should say that aloud. That quote is likely pretty discouraging to everyone else. Even if you want to put a fire under their butts, you do it privately and not through the media.


So you don't believe Magic about Ingram being untouchable?
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

Why should it be discouraging? If anything, the others should look into WHY Magic/FO and previously Mitch/Jim feel that way... and it's not just about talent either. It's about mindset, commitment and the willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve your best. Ingram is the only one that has all those things.

I remember a quote by Kobe after his last game... they asked him what he told the young guys. One of his statements was "I told them to cherish the opportunity and give it everything you have all the time. If you don't make that commitment now, you're going to regret it because time flies." or something like that.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^As he should, IMO, but that doesn't mean he should say that aloud. That quote is likely pretty discouraging to everyone else. Even if you want to put a fire under their butts, you do it privately and not through the media.


That quote shouldn't be discouraging at all. To be honest, some of these guys have to realize that they aren't going to be stars(Randle/Clarkson etc). If the front office likes what they see from Ingram as far as mentality and work ethic, it gives the other guys a road map of what they need to do. I don't see it as a negative to the other guys. I'm guessing if Russell shows some consistency and is given more minutes next season, he'll join the club in which Magic wouldn't want to give him up unless it's for a no brainer. I'm hoping they keep both.

Eventually, they are going to need to establish a pecking order. Russell and Ingram seem to be the guys that should be doing the heavy lifting on offense(even though the ball will be moving around)
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:31 pm    Post subject:

And even though Ingram can't shoot.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:35 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
MJST wrote:
Magic Johnson Says D'Angelo Russell & Brandon Ingram Are Franchise Cornerstones



That is what he's supposed to say.. he's not gonna throw them under the bus and tell the world that they can be traded. He's supposed to support them no matter what the narrative is.


But he didn't say that at all. It's a clickbait title

Magic says ingram is probably the only untouchable player, but thinks russell randle and nance can be special, and clarkson a great defender.


Yeah, he can be building there trade value.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
And even though Ingram can't shoot.


There are quite a few elite players that couldn't shoot their first year in..
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:52 pm    Post subject:

silkwilkes wrote:
Why should it be discouraging? If anything, the others should look into WHY Magic/FO and previously Mitch/Jim feel that way... and it's not just about talent either. It's about mindset, commitment and the willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve your best. Ingram is the only one that has all those things.

I remember a quote by Kobe after his last game... they asked him what he told the young guys. One of his statements was "I told them to cherish the opportunity and give it everything you have all the time. If you don't make that commitment now, you're going to regret it because time flies." or something like that.


I feel like I'm on a bit of an island in that I regard these things less than a lot of people that I respect. I've seen basketball moralized in the last year to a degree that I'm not comfortable with. The whole idea seems to be "if a talented kid works hard and has a good attitude, he's gonna get better".

That makes sense to a certain degree, but I just don't think it's that linear. I was talking to Mike Schmitz on my pod last night about what it is that makes him like De'Aaron Fox, and the first thing that he led with was that he was a good kid, a basketball junkie, hard-worker, etc, and combined with his elite physical gifts he's gonna figure it out. The same rationale is applied to Ingram as well.

So with all of those ingredients...why can't he shoot? It's something that you can work on when you're alone in the gym, and the result of technique and repetition. If it was just as simple as "talented kid + works hard = good results", wouldn't shooting ability reflect the veracity of that idea?

I understand the concept but it has to result in something tangible. I think we're conditioned to be fond of nice, hard-working people, but it has to be more than that.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:53 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
^As he should, IMO, but that doesn't mean he should say that aloud. That quote is likely pretty discouraging to everyone else. Even if you want to put a fire under their butts, you do it privately and not through the media.


1) To be entirely fair to Magic, he's just saying what many of us already knew, so I'm not seeing how this could affect other players. There were points during the season where the players actively wanted to defer to Ingram (see last Clippers game). They wanted him to lead the team, to takeover at times, but he wasn't strong/seasoned enough to do it just yet. More importantly, it's about how well he finished the season -- those spectacular plays, the post game, the attention he demanded in the post, etc. Ingram ended up being the crux of a lot of the exit discussion questions and the players realized this. Luke talked about wanting Kobe to help Ingram be a star in LA. Mike Trudell did a segment after the season ended and said the vibe he got from assistants, scouts, executives on Ingram is that he will be a franchise player. I look forward to seeing where this goes.

2) The "captain obvious" narrative on Magic is starting to get a little out of hand. Magic obviously knows what he's doing. If you take away some of his questionable tweets, he's not an unsavvy person. With Pelinka in the background laying most of the groundwork for the coming seasons, I think the front office will be quite formidable. They will accomplish what they need to accomplish.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 2:54 pm    Post subject:

LilJay24 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
MJST wrote:
Magic Johnson Says D'Angelo Russell & Brandon Ingram Are Franchise Cornerstones



That is what he's supposed to say.. he's not gonna throw them under the bus and tell the world that they can be traded. He's supposed to support them no matter what the narrative is.


But he didn't say that at all. It's a clickbait title

Magic says ingram is probably the only untouchable player, but thinks russell randle and nance can be special, and clarkson a great defender.


Yeah, he can be building there trade value.



that is what the Lakers brass is supposed to say about there players, sure the FO can be high on the young core, but I can bet if someone offers something of value they will be traded, he can't tell the media that the young players can be had, that is a Phil Jackson dilemma.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:05 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Why should it be discouraging? If anything, the others should look into WHY Magic/FO and previously Mitch/Jim feel that way... and it's not just about talent either. It's about mindset, commitment and the willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve your best. Ingram is the only one that has all those things.

I remember a quote by Kobe after his last game... they asked him what he told the young guys. One of his statements was "I told them to cherish the opportunity and give it everything you have all the time. If you don't make that commitment now, you're going to regret it because time flies." or something like that.


I feel like I'm on a bit of an island in that I regard these things less than a lot of people that I respect. I've seen basketball moralized in the last year to a degree that I'm not comfortable with. The whole idea seems to be "if a talented kid works hard and has a good attitude, he's gonna get better".

That makes sense to a certain degree, but I just don't think it's that linear. I was talking to Mike Schmitz on my pod last night about what it is that makes him like De'Aaron Fox, and the first thing that he led with was that he was a good kid, a basketball junkie, hard-worker, etc, and combined with his elite physical gifts he's gonna figure it out. The same rationale is applied to Ingram as well.

So with all of those ingredients...why can't he shoot? It's something that you can work on when you're alone in the gym, and the result of technique and repetition. If it was just as simple as "talented kid + works hard = good results", wouldn't shooting ability reflect the veracity of that idea?

I understand the concept but it has to result in something tangible. I think we're conditioned to be fond of nice, hard-working people, but it has to be more than that.


This all sounds rational, but are we all making too much of a stink about Ingram and Russell's shooting woes? I see it as a non issue with them being so early in their development.

Granted they both could end up lousy shooters for the duration of their careers, I just don't see why we harp on it so much as if these guys are anywhere close to being finished products.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:30 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Why should it be discouraging? If anything, the others should look into WHY Magic/FO and previously Mitch/Jim feel that way... and it's not just about talent either. It's about mindset, commitment and the willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve your best. Ingram is the only one that has all those things.

I remember a quote by Kobe after his last game... they asked him what he told the young guys. One of his statements was "I told them to cherish the opportunity and give it everything you have all the time. If you don't make that commitment now, you're going to regret it because time flies." or something like that.


I feel like I'm on a bit of an island in that I regard these things less than a lot of people that I respect. I've seen basketball moralized in the last year to a degree that I'm not comfortable with. The whole idea seems to be "if a talented kid works hard and has a good attitude, he's gonna get better".

That makes sense to a certain degree, but I just don't think it's that linear. I was talking to Mike Schmitz on my pod last night about what it is that makes him like De'Aaron Fox, and the first thing that he led with was that he was a good kid, a basketball junkie, hard-worker, etc, and combined with his elite physical gifts he's gonna figure it out. The same rationale is applied to Ingram as well.

So with all of those ingredients...why can't he shoot? It's something that you can work on when you're alone in the gym, and the result of technique and repetition. If it was just as simple as "talented kid + works hard = good results", wouldn't shooting ability reflect the veracity of that idea?

I understand the concept but it has to result in something tangible. I think we're conditioned to be fond of nice, hard-working people, but it has to be more than that.

It's not about being linear.

It's not even just about basketball.

I know plenty of extremely smart people... incredibly gifted... that I wouldn't trust with getting my groceries because they're unreliable let alone give them the keys to my house to watch over it when I'm away (just as an example).

The issue with DLO, since I think that's what you're referring to, is that he earned himself a reputation on being unreliable based on a ton of stuff he did (or didn't) do. He has to now fight to overcome that with the Lakers at least. Kid made some strides late in the year and he has enough talent that you want to give the chance to do so. But he hasn't earned his reputation back. He's going to have to show it for a lot longer than just 6 weeks to end a season. I want to keep him and I think he did turn a corner... but I wouldn't build around him until he makes it a quasi-certainty. A keeper but not a franchise player as of now imo.

With Ingram, he has the talent and he's reliable. So you can commit to building around him.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:35 pm    Post subject:

And with Ingram, it has nothing to do with him being a nice guy. Kid is a baller. You don't see it as I do for a variety of reasons that are likely legit... but I think it's pretty much a sure bet that he will be an all star at some point if he stays healthy based on what I saw live. Not saying that I watch or analyze the game like you do GT. But I've seen a ton of players come and go... very few guys just look like they were born to play basketball. To me, he's one of those guys.

We'll just have to wait and see if my instinct is wrong about this kid.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
silkwilkes wrote:
Why should it be discouraging? If anything, the others should look into WHY Magic/FO and previously Mitch/Jim feel that way... and it's not just about talent either. It's about mindset, commitment and the willingness to do whatever it takes to achieve your best. Ingram is the only one that has all those things.

I remember a quote by Kobe after his last game... they asked him what he told the young guys. One of his statements was "I told them to cherish the opportunity and give it everything you have all the time. If you don't make that commitment now, you're going to regret it because time flies." or something like that.


I feel like I'm on a bit of an island in that I regard these things less than a lot of people that I respect. I've seen basketball moralized in the last year to a degree that I'm not comfortable with. The whole idea seems to be "if a talented kid works hard and has a good attitude, he's gonna get better".

That makes sense to a certain degree, but I just don't think it's that linear. I was talking to Mike Schmitz on my pod last night about what it is that makes him like De'Aaron Fox, and the first thing that he led with was that he was a good kid, a basketball junkie, hard-worker, etc, and combined with his elite physical gifts he's gonna figure it out. The same rationale is applied to Ingram as well.

So with all of those ingredients...why can't he shoot? It's something that you can work on when you're alone in the gym, and the result of technique and repetition. If it was just as simple as "talented kid + works hard = good results", wouldn't shooting ability reflect the veracity of that idea?

I understand the concept but it has to result in something tangible. I think we're conditioned to be fond of nice, hard-working people, but it has to be more than that.


elite physical gifts is the key element. You can be a nice kid all you want but without that you might not even make it to the NBA. I'm not enamoured with Fox but he has elite physical gifts that immediately gives him an innate advantage, combine that with a good head on his shoulders and a great work ethic and you're talking about someone with a high potential. I can see why someone would think he'd be the next Mike Conley on John Wall, those guys couldn't shoot coming out of college either, but hardwork combined with their elite physical gifts made them turn out the way they did.

Same can be said for Giannis, and it's easy to look at Ingram and project the same thing about him. It's a risk but you put your chips on the table because the reward is very high. These kids are 19yr olds after all. That's why It's rare when you get someone like Lonzo/Simmons who combine elite physical gifts with elite skills right out of college - there is also a high chance that they might not pan out but you take the risk because talent like that don't come around too often.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 3:52 pm    Post subject:

Silk...I totally get your point about brilliant but unreliable people. But if I have to choose between the person with talent who's a bit flaky & a nice, hard worker who just isn't very good...I'm going to choose the talented person, because in a competitive environment the former is the only one with the capability to help get you to the promised land.

As it pertains to Ingram, hopefully he's the best of both worlds, but I feel as though people's affinity for him as a person blinds them a bit to his flaws, and I wonder if/when there will be expectations placed on him in terms of tangible production.
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 4:12 pm    Post subject:

I see Ingram as more talented as DLO without looking at the rest of it so I think we're pretty far off on our assessments here. Both are very talented. I hope we're both right tbh
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