Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Yeah, I think Lonzo will struggle to begin with as well, but not really in terms of shooting.
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
I agree.
His long-range is usually off the dribble (even if it is mostly step back) and it is pure. For whatever reason, there are certain players who are more consistent from 3 than FT line. I think shooting off motion (dribble or catch and shoot) gives them rhythm.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:46 pm Post subject:
CRoost wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
And early on he will likely be doing that with the second unit. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
I agree.
His long-range is usually off the dribble (even if it is mostly step back) and it is pure. For whatever reason, there are certain players who are more consistent from 3 than FT line. I think shooting off motion (dribble or catch and shoot) gives them rhythm.
Yea.
I think the FT issue stems from 2 things for him - outward release [ he does have an outward release, he's able to make contested 3s because his stroke is super quick and unorthodox ]
And there's some bad/unique wrist action on his shot, that Bballbreakdown pointed out in his vid - he doesn't bend his wrist early enough - but I think it's because of his low form and he won't be able to fix it. The issues kind of go hand in hand for him, creating an outward release. And rhythm helps him on his J. He gets really nice rhythm in that circular flowy stroke
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Yeah, I think Lonzo will struggle to begin with as well, but not really in terms of shooting.
I can def see him struggling off the dribble, a lot out of the gate. Lack of bend + high dribble.
Still think he has a chance to be really good creating, down the line
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Even if Lonzo had that NBA range, NBA is a different game. The zone gave him a space to launch it but the man to man defense will not give him that luxury, he will be guarded tightly . Eventually he will get it going because he has that quick release to start with.
Last edited by CRoost on Sun May 28, 2017 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Even if Lonzo had that NBA range, NBA is a different game. The zone gave him a space to launch it but the man to man defense will not give him that luxury, he will be guarded tightly . Eventually he will get it going because he has that quick release to start it.
He shot 41% from 3pt range against Man-to-Man defense in college.
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Even if Lonzo had that NBA range, NBA is a different game. The zone gave him a space to launch it but the man to man defense will not give him that luxury, he will be guarded tightly . Eventually he will get it going because he has that quick release to start it.
Yea the zone aided that competence from deep.... But he also made a lot of NBA range 3s contested, and a good amount over bigmen.
I think his 3ball will be fine in all ways. I'm optimistically curious about how he'll be able to get that quick stroke off, for like stepbacks, or ISOs that flow into the midrange.
Idk I'm just intrigued by the potential of his unique stroke - he shot some one footed stepbacks - is it possible that's a shot he can make once a game in the future? His pullup 3 also has a high ceiling IMO, it's the weirdest stroke but it's smooth and quick. It could be serious one day, idk
Could he be cash in the screen game going left, on mid range Js idk, I like the rhthym he got on that pullup
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Even if Lonzo had that NBA range, NBA is a different game. The zone gave him a space to launch it but the man to man defense will not give him that luxury, he will be guarded tightly . Eventually he will get it going because he has that quick release to start it.
He shot 41% from 3pt range against Man-to-Man defense in college.
Not expecting him to replicate that percentage until 2nd half of the season. NBA guys are longer, faster, quicker in every way from head to toe.
Last edited by CRoost on Sun May 28, 2017 1:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Even if Lonzo had that NBA range, NBA is a different game. The zone gave him a space to launch it but the man to man defense will not give him that luxury, he will be guarded tightly . Eventually he will get it going because he has that quick release to start it.
Yea the zone aided that competence from deep.... But he also made a lot of NBA range 3s contested, and a good amount over bigmen.
I think his 3ball will be fine in all ways. I'm optimistically curious about how he'll be able to get that quick stroke off, for like stepbacks, or ISOs that flow into the midrange.
Idk I'm just intrigued by the potential of his unique stroke - he shot some one footed stepbacks - is it possible that's a shot he can make once a game in the future? His pullup 3 also has a high ceiling IMO, it's the weirdest stroke but it's smooth and quick. It could be serious one day, idk
Could he be cash in the screen game going left, on mid range Js idk, I like the rhthym he got on that pullup
NBA is more of an open court though in the regular season so I think he will eventually put that midrange together on his arsenal. College is just tightly pack because of the zone so it's harder to become effective when you always have a contested shot on those areas. Lonzo bball IQ and his shot selection tells you that he will rather take layup up and open 3 ball than going through the teeth of defense.
If he has that work ethic then he will fix his flaws and bring out something new to his game every year. His FT shooting tells me that's he's not a pure shooter though.
I am not worried about Ingram, I think he will be a solid NBA player. And I am happy not to see the bust posts that litter the DLO and Randle threads. I know some of it is the shiny new toy scenario and some is just flat out hope. I think he can be an important part of a title team. What I don't see is a future superstar. I think a career of 18, 5 and 4 with good defense is something we should expect. That would be great to have on a contending team.
Oh the bust posts were present here as well, you must've missed it. Especially after the celtics game back in march. There are a lot of passive aggressive bust posts here too if you read btw the lines. _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
Fwiw, I think JJ has more potential than BI and Tatum has a higher floor. Hope he proves me wrong though. _________________ We only celebrate championships.
I am not worried about Ingram, I think he will be a solid NBA player. And I am happy not to see the bust posts that litter the DLO and Randle threads. I know some of it is the shiny new toy scenario and some is just flat out hope. I think he can be an important part of a title team. What I don't see is a future superstar. I think a career of 18, 5 and 4 with good defense is something we should expect. That would be great to have on a contending team.
He will score 18 this year my man. BTW, I thought you always like to defer to the FO's opinion? Magic says they will build around Ingram going forward. They view him as a future franchise player. What do we know, they're the professionals.
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 6:36 pm Post subject:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
CRoost wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Yeah, I think Lonzo will struggle to begin with as well, but not really in terms of shooting.
I can def see him struggling off the dribble, a lot out of the gate. Lack of bend + high dribble.
Still think he has a chance to be really good creating, down the line
Watching Brogdon (ugly low shooting release, limited shake) still do pretty well at PG in the NBA gives me hope that his game will translate quicker than I was originally expecting.
Fwiw, I think JJ has more potential than BI and Tatum has a higher floor. Hope he proves me wrong though.
I think Ingram has more potential than the other two. IMO, Jackson has the highest floor. _________________ "It's just a job. Grass grows, birds fly, waves pound the sand. I beat people up."-The Greatest
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:14 pm Post subject:
fiendishoc wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
CRoost wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
CRoost wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
He will struggle early with his shooting but he will set the pace and his passing will have a multiplier effect. Best believe that.
His shooting has a nice chance to be fine out of the gate. Ingram hugged the college line and shot a frozen rope, and was disrupted by contests himself.
Lonzo loves NBA range, and has made a lot of 3s over contests of bigger players
Yeah, I think Lonzo will struggle to begin with as well, but not really in terms of shooting.
I can def see him struggling off the dribble, a lot out of the gate. Lack of bend + high dribble.
Still think he has a chance to be really good creating, down the line
Watching Brogdon (ugly low shooting release, limited shake) still do pretty well at PG in the NBA gives me hope that his game will translate quicker than I was originally expecting.
I think he'll be figured out next season. Dude doesn't drive left. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
For the life of me I really can't understand why anyone would be harping on his shooting after one year. It makes zero sense to me, unless you just don't like the kid.
Why would you harp on any deficiency of a one year prospect that's fixable?
He shot 24.5% on non corner 3s. He shot 62% from the line. That's tantamount to saying Randle's inability to shoot after his rookie year (71.5% from the line, 31.25% on non corner 3s, 0-4 on corners 3s) shouldn't be a concern about his game.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions as to how proficient he'd be in the long run based on rookie numbers. But that's just me.
You could also pull up some awful rookie stats from other players who are now elite.
Can you? I'd be interested if you can find anyone with comparable shooting numbers -- 62% from the line, 25% on non-corner 3s-- who became a decent shooter from 24+ feet out. Someone brought up Butler, who shot hardly any 3s as a rookie, but he shot 77% from the line. I'd be relieved to find players whose template BI could follow in terms of shooting.
Im sure there are a ton of examples. The issue you're discounting is age. There haven't been many guys at ingrams age that have played minutes in the NBA, and it's hard to pull in college data with pro data. If we are talking about guys who became elite shooters, off the top of my head the most extreme case I can think of is Michael Redd. His age 19 college stats should provide some relief I hope
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
And would you bet money on that statement? I highly doubt the Lakers draft Ball if they know he will take a few years to get his game on par, or else they would just decide to trade the pick for someone who can help the team win now, if Ball is picked by the Lakers it's because they know he can make a Impact from day 1.
For the life of me I really can't understand why anyone would be harping on his shooting after one year. It makes zero sense to me, unless you just don't like the kid.
Why would you harp on any deficiency of a one year prospect that's fixable?
He shot 24.5% on non corner 3s. He shot 62% from the line. That's tantamount to saying Randle's inability to shoot after his rookie year (71.5% from the line, 31.25% on non corner 3s, 0-4 on corners 3s) shouldn't be a concern about his game.
I wouldn't draw any conclusions as to how proficient he'd be in the long run based on rookie numbers. But that's just me.
You could also pull up some awful rookie stats from other players who are now elite.
Can you? I'd be interested if you can find anyone with comparable shooting numbers -- 62% from the line, 25% on non-corner 3s-- who became a decent shooter from 24+ feet out. Someone brought up Butler, who shot hardly any 3s as a rookie, but he shot 77% from the line. I'd be relieved to find players whose template BI could follow in terms of shooting.
Im sure there are a ton of examples. The issue you're discounting is age. There haven't been many guys at ingrams age that have played minutes in the NBA, and it's hard to pull in college data with pro data. If we are talking about guys who became elite shooters, off the top of my head the most extreme case I can think of is Michael Redd. His age 19 college stats should provide some relief I hope
yeah Redd is a great example. He shot 61% from the line in his first two years in college, then 78% in his third year of college. He shot only 32% from three in three years of college. Then he went on to be a 84% career FT, 38% 3pt shooter in the NBA.
Ingram is young enough that we can't yet put a cap on his shooting upside. But his progression or lack thereof this offseason will tell us a lot about his shooting upside imo. If there is big shooting upside, we should see some tangible gains next year in both free throw shooting and three point shooting. I think FT shooting will arguably tell us more than the three point percentage. He should not be hovering around the low 60's again. I'd hope for him to at least be around 70% from the line next year.
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
And would you bet money on that statement? I highly doubt the Lakers draft Ball if they know he will take a few years to get his game on par, or else they would just decide to trade the pick for someone who can help the team win now, if Ball is picked by the Lakers it's because they know he can make a Impact from day 1.
Unlike Ingram, Ball's shot should translate year 1. He has demonstrated range well beyond the NBA three. His IQ and passing will also make an immediate impact. I expect him to struggle defensively though. But he should have an immediate positive impact on the team's offense, even if his individual stats aren't great. He'll also significantly improve our transition offense.
Not sure why this is even a debate, but there is one thing that will end it. Time.. So let's just give the kid time.
Lonzo will fastrack the growth on this team and that includes Ingram. Whoever comes in world class shape and be ready to run and gun will flourish and thrive this coming season. Whoever won't will most likely to be shipped. I believed in Ingram game and his work ethic.
Lonzo will struggle his rookie year just as Ingram and most other rookies do.
And would you bet money on that statement? I highly doubt the Lakers draft Ball if they know he will take a few years to get his game on par, or else they would just decide to trade the pick for someone who can help the team win now, if Ball is picked by the Lakers it's because they know he can make a Impact from day 1.
Unlike Ingram, Ball's shot should translate year 1. He has demonstrated range well beyond the NBA three. His IQ and passing will also make an immediate impact. I expect him to struggle defensively though. But he should have an immediate positive impact on the team's offense, even if his individual stats aren't great. He'll also significantly improve our transition offense.
That's fine, I'm just stating that the Lakers are gonna get players who can help them win now, no more development or waiting for players to pan out. also I think Lonzo Ball can put up nice stats, Luke's offense is somewhat similar to UCLA's.
He didn't make the BBB brand expensive if he was some rookie coming in the NBA, no one is gonna buy Lonzo Ball's products unless he's helping our team win and he's playing at a high level.
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