OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD!!
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Megaton
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:40 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
KAT is mister empty stats


I wouldn't go that far, but I wrote a piece earlier on why Wiggins and Towns putting up prime Kobe-Shaq stat lines doesn't guarantee wins for them, even against other lottery squads (see last Lakers vs Wolves game). A lot of their success last season was predicated on how well Rubio played. HE NEEDED TO PLAY WELL FOR THEM TO WIN. It has to do with, you know, doing something on the other end of the court and not just scoring. That thing called "defense", which for whatever reasons seems to get overlooked here.


What I dont understand though is why defense is such a problem for KAT when he was supposed to be a 2 way player. He has the physical tools


That's because KAT isn't a 2 way player yet. Even most Twolves fans admit he's slow footed on that front.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:12 am    Post subject:

I would gladly take KAT over anything on our roster.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
I would gladly take KAT over anything on our roster.


True, but I'm hoping one of DLO or Ingram makes it a real conversation after this year. The league is run by perimeter players because of how the game is officiated and both of those guys have potential that hasn't been tapped yet.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:46 am    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I would gladly take KAT over anything on our roster.


True, but I'm hoping one of DLO or Ingram makes it a real conversation after this year. The league is run by perimeter players because of how the game is officiated and both of those guys have potential that hasn't been tapped yet.


Indeed. But people forget that KAT is also very young and already putting up some monster numbers. He will get better too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject:

monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:51 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games


Yes but putting up terrible numbers or sub-par numbers in meaningless games do?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games


Better than mediocre numbers in meaningless games. If Towns put up those numbers here, we'd be ecstatic. This entire KAT conversation takes homerism to a whole other level. I think we're better than this.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games


Better than mediocre numbers in meaningless games. If Towns put up those numbers here, we'd be ecstatic. This entire KAT conversation takes homerism to a whole other level. I think we're better than this.


Exactly. KAT was never there for us so it means nothing to me.

But as an objective NBA fan, KAT is one of the top 5 prospects going forward (under 23).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:54 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games


The same with all of our young guys. There numbers and percentages don't mean anything either then according to your stance. Correct? Unless I missed some meaningful games the Lakers played compared to the games the Wolves played.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:55 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:58 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject:

Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


But Kat is?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject:

Quote:
Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


Neither has KAT, whose "floor" is basically an all-NBA 3rd team level player.

Why are we even having this asinine debate? We have Ingram who is a good prospect, Wolves have KAT, and we never had or likely will have a chance at getting him, so why not just enjoy Ingram?
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:06 am    Post subject:

Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


But Kat is?


Definitely not, but he's kinda like 2 years older...

That makes a huge difference ya know.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:07 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games


Yes but putting up terrible numbers or sub-par numbers in meaningless games do?


I never said that. Not even sure who you are referring to. If you mean the lakers then yes their numbers are also meaningless

Dunno why everyone is getting mad at me for something I didnt even say
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:10 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:
Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


Neither has KAT, whose "floor" is basically an all-NBA 3rd team level player.

Why are we even having this asinine debate? We have Ingram who is a good prospect, Wolves have KAT, and we never had or likely will have a chance at getting him, so why not just enjoy Ingram?


More like a basketball debate, but you are correct - it's a scenario that will never happen. The more probable scenario is Ingram and Towns forming a superteam at some point in the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


But Kat is?


Definitely not, but he's kinda like 2 years older...

That makes a huge difference ya know.


Sure, but look at what Kat did in his rookie tear. BI didn't do that last year. He isn't doing that this year at the same age as Kat was a rookie. And the numbers KAT put up last year as a 21 year old, BI may never do that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:12 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Chronicle wrote:
monster numbers that don't mean diddly squat in meaningless games


Yes but putting up terrible numbers or sub-par numbers in meaningless games do?


I never said that. Not even sure who you are referring to. If you mean the lakers then yes their numbers are also meaningless

Dunno why everyone is getting mad at me for something I didnt even say


B/c this is a ridiculous statement.

Quote:
KAT is mister empty stats

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:18 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
B/c this is a ridiculous statement.

Quote:
KAT is mister empty stats


Fine. We'll see in 5 years
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:19 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
B/c this is a ridiculous statement.

Quote:
KAT is mister empty stats


Fine. We'll see in 5 years


Lol
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:20 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
B/c this is a ridiculous statement.

Quote:
KAT is mister empty stats


Fine. We'll see in 5 years


You're incapable of just saying, "KAT is a really great player" and "Ingram can be a really great player?"

Is it a zero sum analysis? ONLY Ingram can be great but KAT can't? B/c if KAT was on this Lakers team putting up those "empty stats" you would be touting him, surely as much as you are touting somehow who has put up relatively poor stats in his first year.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

I will say this. I am one of the largest proponents of Ingram on this site. I even think, given the trends in today's NBA and which skill sets are most valued, that Ingram may actually have a higher ceiling than KAT when all is said and done. That being said, if Minnesota wanted to trade Towns for Ingram, you do it because Towns is simply more of a sure thing at this point. He's putting up historic numbers for someone his age.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject:

Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


But Kat is?


Definitely not, but he's kinda like 2 years older...

That makes a huge difference ya know.


Sure, but look at what Kat did in his rookie tear. BI didn't do that last year. He isn't doing that this year at the same age as Kat was a rookie. And the numbers KAT put up last year as a 21 year old, BI may never do that.


I'll entertain you with this thought and then gracefully bow out of the thread - Ingram is the same age as most of the prospects in the 2017 draft. He's about 2 months older than Lonzo Ball, 4 months older than Markelle Fultz. If Ingram were entering the draft today, he'd be the same age Towns was when he played his first NBA game. In my estimation, that extra year makes a huge difference for rookies. For Ingram, it was obvious he didn't have the necessary strength to compete at the NBA level. When he started adjusting to NBA level physicality, we kind of saw his game evolve towards the end of the season. The kind of attention he started attracting from defenses - not just in the post, but also on the perimeter, makes me think he'll impact the game on a very deep level as he fills out. This is kind of what the players hinted at during the exit interviews.
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