OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD!!
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:33 am    Post subject:

Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


But Kat is?


Definitely not, but he's kinda like 2 years older...

That makes a huge difference ya know.


Sure, but look at what Kat did in his rookie tear. BI didn't do that last year. He isn't doing that this year at the same age as Kat was a rookie. And the numbers KAT put up last year as a 21 year old, BI may never do that.


I'll entertain you with this thought and then gracefully bow out of the thread - Ingram is the same age as most of the prospects in the 2017 draft. He's about 2 months older than Lonzo Ball, 4 months older than Markelle Fultz. If Ingram were entering the draft today, he'd be the same age Towns was when he played his first NBA game. In my estimation, that extra year makes a huge difference for rookies. For Ingram, it was obvious he didn't have the necessary strength to compete at the NBA level. When he started adjusting to NBA level physicality, we kind of saw his game evolve towards the end of the season. The kind of attention he started attracting from defenses - not just in the post, but also on the perimeter, makes me think he'll impact the game on a very deep level as he fills out. This is kind of what the players hinted at during the exit interviews.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:39 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Russell1 wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
P.K. wrote:
reported 6/15 on silverscreenandroll:
The Lakers have also fielded numerous trade inquiries in recent weeks that include their No. 2 pick. The Lakers have listened to calls, but they have maintained that second-year forward Brandon Ingram is not available. The Lakers have liked Ingramís steady growth in his defense, shooting and aggressiveness as he strives to gain more muscle. Meanwhile, the Lakers have heard from prospects they would like playing with Ingram.
One of the players to let the Lakers know about that was presumably Kansas forward Josh Jackson, who told the media after his second private workout with the Lakers that he felt a pairing of himself and Ingram could be ďreally special.Ē
The Lakers ranking Ingram so highly privately and publicly appears to be more than just an effort to boost the confidence of their young wing. All signs point to them truly believing heís a big part of their future, and with all the behind-the-scenes information the team has access too that fans donít, them feeling that way should get Lakers fans pumped about just how special Ingram might ultimately become.
----------------------
I'd guess that other teams have heard that the Lakers are impressed with Josh Jackson, and those other teams then inquired if BI might be available - since there's some overlap position wise between JJ/BI. This may have led to a lot more inquiries about BI in the last week or so, which bubbled up to the press.

regardless, it's still good to see that they're valuing BI that highly

I mean, this is a nice sentiment and all, but if Minnesota called to offer KAT, I'd hope the Lakers would be willing to move Ingram.


Without evaluating how much Ingram fills out/grows/evolves over time, I personally wouldn't (and it seems like the Lakers FO feels the same way). Despite the huge talent discrepancy, the Wolves only won 5 more games than the Lakers this past season, and a lot of it had to do with how Wiggins and Towns defended. Their perceived defensive impact was a lot higher than their actual defensive impact, which was next to negligible most of the season. Towns is not that generational talent people have been hyping him up as. He has to improve on defense (and as a rim protector) for his team to not be in the same place next season (the lottery). I wouldn't label him one dimensional because of his passing ability, but it's not like he doesn't have significant holes in his game.

He's a lot closer than anyone on the Lakers roster. We'd be doing backflips if Ingram put up a +4 OBPM season at age 21.

Defense is more important the closer to the basket, so KAT's defensive issues are magnified, I agree, but nonetheless he's at least very, very good on one side of the floor. I'd be happy if Ingram was more than mediocre at either side of the floor next season.


Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.


You have shown nothing that suggests that Ingram is a better talent than Towns. Towns is better now and has a brighter future.


Are we assuming that Ingram is a finished product? He's not even close to his ceiling right now.


But Kat is?


Definitely not, but he's kinda like 2 years older...

That makes a huge difference ya know.


Sure, but look at what Kat did in his rookie tear. BI didn't do that last year. He isn't doing that this year at the same age as Kat was a rookie. And the numbers KAT put up last year as a 21 year old, BI may never do that.


I'll entertain you with this thought and then gracefully bow out of the thread - Ingram is the same age as most of the prospects in the 2017 draft. He's about 2 months older than Lonzo Ball, 4 months older than Markelle Fultz. If Ingram were entering the draft today, he'd be the same age Towns was when he played his first NBA game. In my estimation, that extra year makes a huge difference for rookies. For Ingram, it was obvious he didn't have the necessary strength to compete at the NBA level. When he started adjusting to NBA level physicality, we kind of saw his game evolve towards the end of the season. The kind of attention he started attracting from defenses - not just in the post, but also on the perimeter, makes me think he'll impact the game on a very deep level as he fills out. This is kind of what the players hinted at during the exit interviews.


Im with you man. I love BI. I hope he is better than KAT
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I will say this. I am one of the largest proponents of Ingram on this site. I even think, given the trends in today's NBA and which skill sets are most valued, that Ingram may actually have a higher ceiling than KAT when all is said and done. That being said, if Minnesota wanted to trade Towns for Ingram, you do it because Towns is simply more of a sure thing at this point. He's putting up historic numbers for someone his age.


That is a fair take. And the most plausible is that both will be really great players, and are playing on teams that are terrible now that will get better (and stats become less "empty.").
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:43 am    Post subject:

Truly is crazy that ingram is still younger than almost everyone in the upcoming draft
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:10 am    Post subject:

Would be difficult to agree on a Brandon trade without seeing what he looks like next season. He was simply too young last season so it's a bit tough to evaluate him, his physical tools and skillsets are beyond tantalizing. I'm just happy the front office is as high on him as we are.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject:

Chronicle wrote:
Truly is crazy that ingram is still younger than almost everyone in the upcoming draft


This is a good point. Essentially, he had a "redshirt" NBA year. We'll be depending on him this year for sure.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I will say this. I am one of the largest proponents of Ingram on this site. I even think, given the trends in today's NBA and which skill sets are most valued, that Ingram may actually have a higher ceiling than KAT when all is said and done. That being said, if Minnesota wanted to trade Towns for Ingram, you do it because Towns is simply more of a sure thing at this point. He's putting up historic numbers for someone his age.


We might be in the minority but I believe this as well. I believe Ingram has a lower floor but a higher ceiling than KAT. Ingram has all the tools and potential to become an all-time player. He hasn't even hit puberty in terms of his NBA development.

KAT will be a monster in his own right. However, his lateral quickness is actually a lot worse than I expected it would be. He has slow feet on defense and can't switch the PnRs that I thought he would be able to. However, on offense his straight line driving speed is quite good for a man his size.

Ingram would need quite a bit to reach his FULL potential. Develop the shot, gain strength and GOOD weight which should lead to more explosion. He needs to sharpen his defensive mechanics (his instincts are quite good) and with a few more seasons I can see him being up there with Giannis in terms of impact.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject:

It's so disingenuous to use KAT's defense as a point against him while failing to bring up that Ingram himself was #78/81 in DRPM (which is apparently the stat of choice in this discussion). Ingram was terrible at defense as well. Just like KAT, he has the tools to become a really good defender so it's silly to be down on their defensive potential.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:

Like I said earlier, I, personally, wouldn't do a deal for Towns if it involved Ingram. If other people feel/think differently, that's their prerogative and I have nothing against that. Not that the Wolves would ever deal Towns to the Lakers, but I can only imagine the multitude of ways he'd be getting criticized for not winning enough games as the #1 pick if he played for us. The expectations would be so high that he'd be set up to fail.

The Wolves only improved by 2 wins this season. That might have been acceptable to Wolves fans, but if we picked KAT and saw that same nominal win total improvement from one year to the next, we'd be calling for his head. The Wolves were projected to be in the playoffs this season. Towns was supposed to "explode" as this perennial MVP candidate, only for one of his biggest weaknesses to get exploited game after game. And going by recent memory, it's one of the most disappointing seasons I can remember from a team. I fell for the Towns hype, but it died down after watching numerous Wolves games.

I'm not fond of using stats for rookies/sophmores, but these were the Wolves starting 5 positional rankings in DRPM (from 5 months ago):

Rubio 3/85
LaVine 82/85
Wiggins 80/80
Dieng 3/93
Towns 69/69

I like Towns. He's a phenomenal offensive talent, but someone summed up why Ingram should be worth keeping at all costs:

Quote:
6í9 wing players that can handle the ball, shoot, play make and put the ball on the floor donít grow on trees. BI showed major flashes, especially after the all-star break. Once is body physically catches up to his skills, itís a wrap. Oh, he also is 19 years old with a freakish 7í3 wingspan. He hasnít even scratched the surface.


There's a reason they didn't trade him for Cousins, a better talent than Towns right now.

Respect, it is personal choice and we all project these young guys a bit differently.

If KAT stagnates and remains a one-way big, it'll be a disappointing outcome for one of the most gifted players to enter the league in the past few years. He won't be a generational talent without significant improvement on that end.

Personally, I don't see reason yet to be particularly optimistic about Ingram's defense outside of using his youth and spindly frame as (admittedly legitimate) excuses for being so bad at it last year. He could improve significantly, but so could KAT. We'll see what happens, but I wouldn't want to bet my pinky on either guy becoming +DRPM players at this stage.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:58 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
It's so disingenuous to use KAT's defense as a point against him while failing to bring up that Ingram himself was #78/81 in DRPM (which is apparently the stat of choice in this discussion). Ingram was terrible at defense as well. Just like KAT, he has the tools to become a really good defender so it's silly to be down on their defensive potential.


It's funny b/c this is KAT's FLOOR. And he's putting up raw numbers that are closer to a 3rd team all-NBA player.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:01 am    Post subject:

KAT is a quadrillion times better asset than Boogie. Way younger, cost-controlled, under team control for 5-6 years, no lock room issues, etc.. The Lakers (smartly) refusing Ingram for Boogie is irrelevant to whether they would (or should) trade Ingram for KAT.

I'm honestly flabbergasted this is even up for discussion but to each his own, I suppose.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
KAT is a quadrillion times better asset than Boogie. Way younger, cost-controlled, under team control for 5-6 years, no lock room issues, etc.. The Lakers (smartly) refusing Ingram for Boogie is irrelevant to whether they would (or should) trade Ingram for KAT.

I'm honestly flabbergasted this is even up for discussion but to each his own, I suppose.


Are you surprised? LOL.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject:

Since we are talking about floors and ceilings, I see Ingram's ceiling as a longer, taller Kawhi. Especially if he starts working out with Kobe. I'm not even worried about his floor because I am just hoping he reaches his ceiling.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
KAT is a quadrillion times better asset than Boogie. Way younger, cost-controlled, under team control for 5-6 years, no lock room issues, etc.. The Lakers (smartly) refusing Ingram for Boogie is irrelevant to whether they would (or should) trade Ingram for KAT.

I'm honestly flabbergasted this is even up for discussion but to each his own, I suppose.

At least we can all agree that we wouldn't trade him for Wiggins.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:39 am    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
tox wrote:
KAT is a quadrillion times better asset than Boogie. Way younger, cost-controlled, under team control for 5-6 years, no lock room issues, etc.. The Lakers (smartly) refusing Ingram for Boogie is irrelevant to whether they would (or should) trade Ingram for KAT.

I'm honestly flabbergasted this is even up for discussion but to each his own, I suppose.

At least we can all agree that we wouldn't trade him for Wiggins.

100% lol. Wiggins is a gifted scorer, but rookie year, skinny, redshirt Ingram already matched or beat Wiggins' career high in assists, rebounds, and blocks. Wiggins is just way too one dimensional and offers literally nothing besides (fairly inefficient) scoring.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:03 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
tox wrote:
KAT is a quadrillion times better asset than Boogie. Way younger, cost-controlled, under team control for 5-6 years, no lock room issues, etc.. The Lakers (smartly) refusing Ingram for Boogie is irrelevant to whether they would (or should) trade Ingram for KAT.

I'm honestly flabbergasted this is even up for discussion but to each his own, I suppose.

At least we can all agree that we wouldn't trade him for Wiggins.

100% lol. Wiggins is a gifted scorer, but rookie year, skinny, redshirt Ingram already matched or beat Wiggins' career high in assists, rebounds, and blocks. Wiggins is just way too one dimensional and offers literally nothing besides (fairly inefficient) scoring.

Jeez, Wiggins is a terrible rebounder and passer.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team.. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team.. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.


Yes. Like 7 years from now.

DLO/KAT/Booker are close friends FWIW.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team.. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.


Yes. Like 7 years from now.

DLO/KAT/Booker are close friends FWIW.


Given how the league is trending, I would be surprised if they all haven't already discussed it.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team (in Los Angeles) fixed .. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

"I'll entertain you with this thought and then gracefully bow out of the thread - Ingram is the same age as most of the prospects in the 2017 draft. He's about 2 months older than Lonzo Ball, 4 months older than Markelle Fultz. If Ingram were entering the draft today, he'd be the same age Towns was when he played his first NBA game. In my estimation, that extra year makes a huge difference for rookies. For Ingram, it was obvious he didn't have the necessary strength to compete at the NBA level. When he started adjusting to NBA level physicality, we kind of saw his game evolve towards the end of the season. The kind of attention he started attracting from defenses - not just in the post, but also on the perimeter, makes me think he'll impact the game on a very deep level as he fills out. This is kind of what the players hinted at during the exit interviews."

Agree with this 100%. Ingram is a super young and a late bloomer as well. He will take more time but the flashes are there and his potential is amazing as a legit 2 way player.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team.. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.


Yes. Like 7 years from now.

DLO/KAT/Booker are close friends FWIW.


Given how the league is trending, I would be surprised if they all haven't already discussed it.


Yeah. Sucks though that top players like that can't get together for basically 7 years...and when they're approaching PG13's age (i.e. 27ish).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team (in Los Angeles) fixed .. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:16 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team (in Los Angeles) fixed .. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.



Absolutely... thumbsup:
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SocalDevin
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Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 1341
Location: Long Beach

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
Someone mentioned Ingram and Kat forming a super team.. That would be one hell of a core if those two reach their ceilings.


Yes. Like 7 years from now.

DLO/KAT/Booker are close friends FWIW.


Given how the league is trending, I would be surprised if they all haven't already discussed it.


Yeah. Sucks though that top players like that can't get together for basically 7 years...and when they're approaching PG13's age (i.e. 27ish).


Agreed, though that gives them some time to make money before they start looking for places to win chips.. By that time I would think they'd have at least one Max deal under their belt.
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