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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
That you Magic?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
Think about continuity. We don't need Ingram taking over now, we need to keep developing him with the hope that one day he is going to be good enough to replace Paul George.
A couple of solid veterans can help us building a winning culture developing the young pieces we have.
I'll be extremely sincere, at this moment my short term goal is not beating GS, but beating Clippers. I found it insufferable the owner of this ridiculous franchise bragging his team is kicking our a$$ for a few seasons.
I know we can't win it every season, but as a Lakers fan I was never prepared to be the laughingstock of the league. |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt.
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AY2043
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | awntawn wrote: |
Ingram could steadily improve for a long time and still not be as good as DLo was last year. He has that far a distance to go. |
No doubt about that, if after a couple of seasons he is not above average he is going to be untouchable anymore. Objectively speaking Russell was an average player by most advanced stats, untouchable assets are players with better numbers than that. |
If untouchable players are ones with above average stats, why is Ingram untouchable. Don't give me "they project them to be good". DLO was in his 2nd year putting up 20/6/5 per 36 w/advanced stats pretty much the same as Booker. |
I don't want to talk about Nets and Phoenix players because they are not our problem, but as I told, Ingram has to keep improving his stats to keep his status. |
Funny, cause you had no problem discussing other teams players before this trade. But that's cool, I'll stop now.
The main goal is for Brandon to be a star, and I want nothing more than for that to happen. I'm not as optimistic as Magic seems to be (though I think he'll be really good), but I will happily eat a super sized plate of crow |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | nash wrote: | | av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
Think about continuity. We don't need Ingram taking over now, we need to keep developing him with the hope that one day he is going to be good enough to replace Paul George.
A couple of solid veterans can help us building a winning culture developing the young pieces we have.
I'll be extremely sincere, at this moment my short term goal is not beating GS, but beating Clippers. I found it insufferable the owner of this ridiculous franchise bragging his team is kicking our a$$ for a few seasons.
I know we can't win it every season, but as a Lakers fan I was never prepared to be the laughingstock of the league. |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt. |
Don't talk nonsense like that! For real though, that's a very scary thought. |
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nash
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt. |
I'm never going to be one underestimating West and I'm pissed about him going to Clippers. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:15 am Post subject: |
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So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt. |
I'm never going to be one underestimating West and I'm pissed about him going to Clippers. |
Yeah, he's like the Star Player Whisperer. He can convince top players to go anywhere and win. |
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Practice
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | awntawn wrote: |
Ingram could steadily improve for a long time and still not be as good as DLo was last year. He has that far a distance to go. |
No doubt about that, if after a couple of seasons he is not above average he is going to be untouchable anymore. Objectively speaking Russell was an average player by most advanced stats, untouchable assets are players with better numbers than that. |
If untouchable players are ones with above average stats, why is Ingram untouchable. Don't give me "they project them to be good". DLO was in his 2nd year putting up 20/6/5 per 36 w/advanced stats pretty much the same as Booker. |
Personality I'm guessing. |
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nash
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
If you look at the trajectory of his advanced stats you are going to see he is steadily improving. Since he was one of the worst players ever early it is almost a vertical line at this point and the tendency is getting flatter with the expected bumps, but he had a 15.7 PER (above average) for the last month of the season after rising it in all but two months of the season one of them when he was used as PG when Dlo was hurt.
This is not where we need him, but if he keeps improving and I don't see any reasons he cant because it was reported that he has a great work ethic, has high IQ and not glaring physical limitations but his lack of body mass that he can fill in a few seasons, at this point I don't see any reasons to believe he is not a solid prospect. Don't forget he is still younger than several players that are going to be high lottery picks this season.
I'd like to have access to BPM/RPM for each month of the season, but from an efficiency standpoint Ingram was getting better almost every single month as you wish from a high lottery pick supposed to be one of your main guys. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: |
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If pg13 and lebron are the targets Ingram has 1 year to show his value or he will be shipped for other win now pieces. That's 3 SFs.
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LakesGnrLake
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt. |
I'm never going to be one underestimating West and I'm pissed about him going to Clippers. |
Yeah, he's like the Star Player Whisperer. He can convince top players to go anywhere and win. |
i think West is being kind of overrated here. He's more of a draft whisper than anything and clips dont really have pics. In Golden State he was pretty much zoned out, but i guess once you have Durant you dont need much. In terms of convincing players to come it's a wash between him and Magic. |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| LakesGnrLake wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt. |
I'm never going to be one underestimating West and I'm pissed about him going to Clippers. |
Yeah, he's like the Star Player Whisperer. He can convince top players to go anywhere and win. |
i think West is being kind of overrated here. He's more of a draft whisper than anything and clips dont really have pics. In Golden State he was pretty much zoned out, but i guess once you have Durant you dont need much. In terms of convincing players to come it's a wash between him and Magic. |
I like your optimism. Hopefully your right about Magic when it comes to attracting free agents. I know players love him, but how many of the newer players actually seen him play? I guess the same can go for West when he recruits. |
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av3773
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah I think that's the case, I think if "Super Team" is really in the cards for the lakers next year....I think they move all of their existing players drafted in the top 10 except for 1 (Ball would be the one they keep imo), move JC as well, try to hold on to Zubac and Nance |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
No, you don't do this. You'll never have 3 max slots unless guys take paycuts (don't ever count on this happening). While in theory losing Deng and retaining a Top 8 pick is good, you're probably not going to win even if we sign 2 max free agents next summer. Why dump one of just two high-potential assets you have on the team? |
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Vin
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
That you Magic? |
Yeah after trading D'Lo in prevision for next year let's also trade Ingram because he doesn't fit with Lebron James. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
Dirk strikes me as the best case scenario for Ingram. I think his -4 BPM or whatever is misleading. It was basically a redshirt season since he was so young and so thin. That's why I've always stressed the only concern you should have about Ingram (IMO) is his shooting because that's not just a matter of youth. |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| zePokar wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
That you Magic? |
Yeah after trading D'Lo in prevision for next year let's also trade Ingram because he doesn't fit with Lebron James. |
Fit with the possibility of 34 y/o LeBron James |
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Vin
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | zePokar wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | av3773 wrote: | I wonder if he is untouchable now.
If the Lakers are going to Land PG his natural position is the 3...can play 4 same with BI in stretches, but if we really think we can get Bron as well I think ideally you're looking at Bron at 4 and George at 3 if that's the case even though BI can play 2 would it be better to flip BI now...because those 2 guys are coming here to win and to go at the warriors we're going to need a 3rd piece...maybe you see if you can flip BI for a top 8 pick + attach Deng
This years draft you get 2 and 5-8, plus shed Deng so you have 3 max slots next summer |
That you Magic? |
Yeah after trading D'Lo in prevision for next year let's also trade Ingram because he doesn't fit with Lebron James. |
Fit with the possibility of 34 y/o LeBron James |
Nah mate he's coming. I heard someone say on ESPN that he had a source that had told him that he heard Lebron said he likes Los Angeles. So we gotta prepare the roster right now. Let's get Jones too. You know Lebron can't play without him. |
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yuurin98
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. 
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: |
Imagine if West is successful and gets PG. This place will erupt. |
I'm never going to be one underestimating West and I'm pissed about him going to Clippers. |
Me to brother!
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
I guess that is why he is trying to trade away Lonzo to Sacto. 
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JohnWick
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| With Dlo gone and no PG13 yet there is massive amounts of pressure on Ingram. I think the kid is special but now he has the entire franchise on his back and knows if he doesn't perform up to that expectation he will be shipped out for a salary dump with Deng. |
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av3773
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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Never have 3 max guys? what about GS, they are going to have 4 max level guys..I understand curry was a cheaper contract but KD is making room for Curry....Klay may leave eventually but that's still 3 max guys if they can do it I don't see why we can't
Bron has already shown in Miami he'll sacrifice some of his salary for talent...it wouldn't surprise if George and a third would also so they could actually compete....they'd still be making mad money |
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tox
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
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nash
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Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Well, I wouldn't call Clarkson and Russell leading guards either, LeBron is a better ball distributor and can run circles around some guards we had here so I guess this team can win more than 30 games  . |
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