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JohnWick
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Joined: 21 Jun 2017
Posts: 251
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 Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard.  |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnWick wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
And one Nance + ring chasers 
NGL part of me wants this to happen. I mean it won't, and spacing would hurt LeBron's effectiveness. But it'd be such a bizarre experiment to watch |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JohnWick wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
And one Nance + ring chasers
NGL part of me wants this to happen. I mean it won't, and spacing would hurt LeBron's effectiveness. But it'd be such a bizarre experiment to watch |
Lonzo + LeBron would be so (bleep) fun to watch. I'm sure it's happened but I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a team that had TWO guys who could pass at that level. Lonzo would vibe so perfectly off of LBJ too. Man, I hope it happens. |
My stupid scenario had Lonzo being traded, but yeah that'd be pretty great. |
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44TheLogo
Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009
Posts: 6364
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JohnWick wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
And one Nance + ring chasers
NGL part of me wants this to happen. I mean it won't, and spacing would hurt LeBron's effectiveness. But it'd be such a bizarre experiment to watch |
Lonzo + LeBron would be so (bleep) fun to watch. I'm sure it's happened but I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a team that had TWO guys who could pass at that level. Lonzo would vibe so perfectly off of LBJ too. Man, I hope it happens. |
white chocolate + cwebb + vlade
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
If you look at the trajectory of his advanced stats you are going to see he is steadily improving. Since he was one of the worst players ever early it is almost a vertical line at this point and the tendency is getting flatter with the expected bumps, but he had a 15.7 PER (above average) for the last month of the season after rising it in all but two months of the season one of them when he was used as PG when Dlo was hurt.
This is not where we need him, but if he keeps improving and I don't see any reasons he cant because it was reported that he has a great work ethic, has high IQ and not glaring physical limitations but his lack of body mass that he can fill in a few seasons, at this point I don't see any reasons to believe he is not a solid prospect. Don't forget he is still younger than several players that are going to be high lottery picks this season.
I'd like to have access to BPM/RPM for each month of the season, but from an efficiency standpoint Ingram was getting better almost every single month as you wish from a high lottery pick supposed to be one of your main guys. |
That upward trajectory at his age is a beacon of hope. His shooting remains a major question mark, but we'll see if that was just a blip.
Unfortunately we have to track BPM/RPM splits manually. That's a simple project we can all keep on top next season. |
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JohnWick
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Joined: 21 Jun 2017
Posts: 251
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | JohnWick wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
And one Nance + ring chasers
NGL part of me wants this to happen. I mean it won't, and spacing would hurt LeBron's effectiveness. But it'd be such a bizarre experiment to watch |
I'd love to see it too. Would take GSW to 7 but we'd have a 3 yr window before another rebuild. Pipe dreams are the best |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
Dirk strikes me as the best case scenario for Ingram. I think his -4 BPM or whatever is misleading. It was basically a redshirt season since he was so young and so thin. That's why I've always stressed the only concern you should have about Ingram (IMO) is his shooting because that's not just a matter of youth. |
Dirk is the best case scenario for most players. Hopefully those intangibles help him become the best player who was a terrible rookie in NBA history (maybe Booker will beat him there). |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | Never have 3 max guys? what about GS, they are going to have 4 max level guys..I understand curry was a cheaper contract but KD is making room for Curry....Klay may leave eventually but that's still 3 max guys if they can do it I don't see why we can't
Bron has already shown in Miami he'll sacrifice some of his salary for talent...it wouldn't surprise if George and a third would also so they could actually compete....they'd still be making mad money |
It took Curry and Green signing on to cheaper deals that they've both greatly outplayed, Durant willing to leave more money to chase a ring, and the salary skipe to take a one year massive spike to allow GS to assemble their team. That confluence of events isn't happening again for a long time, if ever. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | tox wrote: | | JohnWick wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
And one Nance + ring chasers
NGL part of me wants this to happen. I mean it won't, and spacing would hurt LeBron's effectiveness. But it'd be such a bizarre experiment to watch |
Lonzo + LeBron would be so (bleep) fun to watch. I'm sure it's happened but I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a team that had TWO guys who could pass at that level. Lonzo would vibe so perfectly off of LBJ too. Man, I hope it happens. |
A part of me secretly wanted to see Ball in Philly with Simmons. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
Dirk strikes me as the best case scenario for Ingram. I think his -4 BPM or whatever is misleading. It was basically a redshirt season since he was so young and so thin. That's why I've always stressed the only concern you should have about Ingram (IMO) is his shooting because that's not just a matter of youth. |
Dirk is the best case scenario for most players. Hopefully those intangibles help him become the best player who was a terrible rookie in NBA history (maybe Booker will beat him there). |
I'd say there are more similarities between Dirk and Ingram than with most other players.
The most important part is if his jumper can go even 60% like Dirk's did. Unfortunately Dirk was always a good FT shooter, whereas Ingram's 65% inspires zero confidence. |
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nash
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| JohnWick wrote: | | With Dlo gone and no PG13 yet there is massive amounts of pressure on Ingram. |
It may be the opposite, part of the pressure over our early lottery picks (Dlo/Julius) are a consequence of our lack of premier players. I mean, we had Kobe, but I consider Kobe real last game was the one he blew his achilles. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17880
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| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | So here's a list of 18-20 year old rookies who played as many minutes as Ingram who posted a BPM of -3 or worse:
Link
Marvin Williams and JR Smith went on to become productive role-players, while young scoring guards like Lavine and Booker have shown promise (though neither are positive BPM players yet in year two and three, respectively). Of course, Okafor and Mudiay are there as well.
It's only one data point, but BI has a pretty deep hole to dig himself out of to become a productive starter let alone a star after his very rocky first season. Will he be an outlier? Dirk posted a -2.9 BPM on 49% TS% as a 20 year old rookie and went on to become an all-time great. Hopefully BI will have a similar jump between years one and two that Dirk had, and then continue to get better from there. |
Dirk strikes me as the best case scenario for Ingram. I think his -4 BPM or whatever is misleading. It was basically a redshirt season since he was so young and so thin. That's why I've always stressed the only concern you should have about Ingram (IMO) is his shooting because that's not just a matter of youth. |
No concern over the low STL% & BLK%, especially considering his length? |
Actually you're right. That is a point of concern. I don't think he has great shotblocking instincts or anticipation getting steals. I don't even think his on ball defense is good either. Guys like Giannis and Durant had far better numbers as a rookie (and Durant wasn't even much of a defender), and Durant also far outpaced Ingram in college (per 40 min anyways).
But to be fair, Durant and Giannis also improved, especially in terms of block %. I still have hope Ingram can be a secondary rim protection guy as he develops athletically. But I don't think he'll ever be a good steals guy, and frankly I feel like current KD is probably Ingram's peak defense, which is kind of depressing. |
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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:18 am Post subject: |
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| Has brandon worked out w kobe yet? |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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nash
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| JohnWick wrote: | | tox wrote: | | yuurin98 wrote: | | With LeBron and PG13 coming, I think Magic actually sees Ingram as a point guard. |
Trade #2 + Deng for Butler
Trade Randle + Clarkson + 27/28 for PG13
Sign LeBron
LeBron/ Butler/ George/ Ingram/ Zubac
This is the future. All wings, no guards |
Great starting 5 but we'll have a bench full of Nwaba's and Ennis' |
Are you aware that last season Ennis and Nwaba had good defensive numbers and the best net ratting among all guards?
They are not talented, but you have to play the game when you have the ball, but the game also should be played when the other team has it. Those guys aren't talented, but they are helping us to win more games than some praised players with better raw stats. |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
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Just had the urge to respond to his tweet " if you made more shots DLo would still be around" . Same for Randle.
Wasn't a fair situation........... |
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Vin
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2013
Posts: 6005
Location: France
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Just had the urge to respond to his tweet " if you made more shots DLo would still be around" . Same for Randle.
Wasn't a fair situation........... |
Ehh lol. What was the tweet you responded to ?
Edit : I guess you didn't actually respond.
Last edited by Vin on Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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RusselDoeee01
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Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 1074
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Ingram for Porzingis straight up..
Do you do the trade?
I say no.
Ingram is special IMO |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| zePokar wrote: | | KeepItRealOrElse wrote: | Just had the urge to respond to his tweet " if you made more shots DLo would still be around" . Same for Randle.
Wasn't a fair situation........... |
Ehh lol. What was the tweet you responded to ?
Edit : I guess you didn't actually respond. |
Lol yea I ain't do it. I absolutely believe it though |
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twisted
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 1265
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| RusselDoeee01 wrote: | Ingram for Porzingis straight up..
Do you do the trade?
I say no.
Ingram is special IMO |
easy yes
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“God knew they couldn’t be on this Earth without each other. He had to bring them home to have them together.” – Vanessa Bryant |
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Staccatos
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Chronicle
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Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:52 am Post subject: |
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Brandon Xavier Henry Ingram
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Kobe |
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RobinInHood
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Joined: 30 Sep 2016
Posts: 195
Location: Stockholm
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Chronicle wrote: | | Brandon Xavier Henry Ingram |
I don't why that was funny but it was |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| twisted wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | Ingram for Porzingis straight up..
Do you do the trade?
I say no.
Ingram is special IMO |
easy yes |
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Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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epak
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| Posted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | twisted wrote: | | RusselDoeee01 wrote: | Ingram for Porzingis straight up..
Do you do the trade?
I say no.
Ingram is special IMO |
easy yes |
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Easy yes if you can guarantee both guys are healthy throughout their careers. |
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