OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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MJST
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ingram and Lonzo are our future even with two max players. 2018 Ingram probably gets to be the 2nd option behind Brook. With 2 max he's probably an over qualified 3rd option but learning behind two of the best. What's the hurry and worry?


There's no hurry. The only hurry is if you're trying to make this team a Championship contender within 2 seasons.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:51 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Ingram and Lonzo are our future even with two max players. 2018 Ingram probably gets to be the 2nd option behind Brook. With 2 max he's probably an over qualified 3rd option but learning behind two of the best. What's the hurry and worry?


There's no hurry. The only hurry is if you're trying to make this team a Championship contender within 2 seasons.


Easy for you to say. You didn't oust your brother in a coup/takeover. They're not sitting idly by for 3-4 more non playoff years. I'm sorry it bothers you that we may go from a bottom 10 team to a top 5 one in one offseason.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject:

"may" being the operative word. I for one am ready for some playoff basketball.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
"may" being the operative word. I for one am ready for some playoff basketball.


Lbj/pg13 and most of the core makes this a likely top 5 team in 2018.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
"may" being the operative word. I for one am ready for some playoff basketball.


Lbj/pg13 and most of the core makes this a likely top 5 team in 2018.


Lopez/Nance
LeBron/Kuz
George
Ingram/Hart
Lonzo

with solid vet signings is a top 3 team but I drift your catch.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Assuming we get 2 max players next summer, the near term goal is for BI to be competent enough as a 2 way player who can play multiple positions to be at worst, a 3rd possibly 4th option.



I disagree. His goal shouldn't be to be 'competent enough' to become a 3rd or 4th option. His goal should be to be great enough to make the Lakers question whether or not they even need Paul George.

Whether he gets there or not is up for debate, but that should definitely be his goal, to be the best player on this team as opposed to trying to play up to being a backseat player "just in case" the Lakers get two max's this off-season.

Right now that shouldn't even be in his mind nor treated like a definite. He should be striving to play at a level that makes Magic and Rob go "you know what... maybe we don't need PG and we can just push BI as a young player that's about to break out at a level even higher and go for one max FA."

And even if they get that max player, BI should be striving to play at a higher level than them.

The moment you start striving to be 'content' is the moment you fall severely short and get complacent, and I'd rather that not happen to BI.

I'd rather he have such a good season that Magic and Pelinka go "heck with the two max plan, HE is a future max."

Call me crazy, but I doubt he was saying that those should be BI's personal goals. But I'm more than sure that the FO and the coaching staff have goals very similar to that for BI this year. Although he's primed to have a much bigger role in the offense, if LeBron and PG sign up for next year it's pretty safe to say that Ingram's role will change. He'd have to fit in somewhere, wouldn't he? With his length and versatile skill set, utilizing him as a sort of Swiss Army knife is what would be best for that team.

What does Ingram have to lose by growing in the areas that yinoma outlined? Even if LeBron and George don't come (which is much, much less likely to happen than both coming imo), all it would mean is that Ingram will be an even more versatile player moving forward. I think the people who don't have some divided interest and actually care most about the team winning would like to see Ingram develop in those areas this season.

Nothing he said in his post had jack to do with Ingram becoming "content" and not wanting to get better. I have no idea where you got that weirdness from.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 12:35 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Ingram and Lonzo are our future even with two max players. 2018 Ingram probably gets to be the 2nd option behind Brook. With 2 max he's probably an over qualified 3rd option but learning behind two of the best. What's the hurry and worry?


There's no hurry. The only hurry is if you're trying to make this team a Championship contender within 2 seasons.


Easy for you to say. You didn't oust your brother in a coup/takeover. They're not sitting idly by for 3-4 more non playoff years.


Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.

Quote:
I'm sorry it bothers you that we may go from a bottom 10 team to a top 5 one in one offseason.


I'm sorry that it bothers you that we most likely won't.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:55 am    Post subject:

I'm sorry but you seem so wedded to the youngsters as if that's the ends, not the means. They are pieces to the puzzle and as stated a dozen times, will be a part of the 2018 plan. At most we may have to sacrifice JC/Deng, possibly Jules. Keeping Lonzo/Ingram is the most important.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:10 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year

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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:47 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


While I didn't have a clue about the context I still agree with his statement alone.

I don't like the way we managed Jules and Russell giving them a starting position when they weren't ready.

I'm all in for the two superstars plan while I believe bringing two players like LB and PG13 that can play the same position as Ingram is not just good, but the best way to develop our young player.

I believe the best way to develop a young players is putting them on a winning program with great exemples to follow. It is clear that Ingram/Ball aren't going to prime while LeBron is still a dominant force and that is great because it provides continuity.

The youngsters should take a back seat until they are legit first options just learning the game and the nuances of winning close games and the mental aspect of the game.

Ingram has to keep improving this season to keep his untouchable status, but he is not going to lead us to post season in the near future.

Julius still has to show he is a starting quality PF in this league. In my mind there is no comparison between him and players like LeBron and PG13, it is the year he has to prove his "higher ceiling" can may him at least a better option than Nance/Kuzma.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:53 am    Post subject:

nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


While I didn't have a clue about the context I still agree with his statement alone.

I don't like the way we managed Jules and Russell giving them a starting position when they weren't ready.

I'm all in for the two superstars plan while I believe bringing two players like LB and PG13 that can play the same position as Ingram is not just good, but the best way to develop our young player.

I believe the best way to develop a young players is putting them on a winning program with great exemples to follow. It is clear that Ingram/Ball aren't going to prime while LeBron is still a dominant force and that is great because it provides continuity.

The youngsters should take a back seat until they are legit first options just learning the game and the nuances of winning close games and the mental aspect of the game.

Ingram has to keep improving this season to keep his untouchable status, but he is not going to lead us to post season in the near future.

Julius still has to show he is a starting quality PF in this league. In my mind there is no comparison between him and players like LeBron and PG13, it is the year he has to prove his "higher ceiling" can may him at least a better option than Nance/Kuzma.


If that's the case, not sure why you endorse the statement above. He is advocating for a long and organic rebuild, fraught with more consecutive losing years.

He's reversing the ends/means, with the youngsters being the ends. In what universe is getting LBJ/PG13 to add to a Lonzo/Ingram future core a bad world?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


While I didn't have a clue about the context I still agree with his statement alone.

I don't like the way we managed Jules and Russell giving them a starting position when they weren't ready.

I'm all in for the two superstars plan while I believe bringing two players like LB and PG13 that can play the same position as Ingram is not just good, but the best way to develop our young player.

I believe the best way to develop a young players is putting them on a winning program with great exemples to follow. It is clear that Ingram/Ball aren't going to prime while LeBron is still a dominant force and that is great because it provides continuity.

The youngsters should take a back seat until they are legit first options just learning the game and the nuances of winning close games and the mental aspect of the game.

Ingram has to keep improving this season to keep his untouchable status, but he is not going to lead us to post season in the near future.

Julius still has to show he is a starting quality PF in this league. In my mind there is no comparison between him and players like LeBron and PG13, it is the year he has to prove his "higher ceiling" can may him at least a better option than Nance/Kuzma.


If that's the case, not sure why you endorse the statement above. He is advocating for a long and organic rebuild, fraught with more consecutive losing years.

He's reversing the ends/means, with the youngsters being the ends. In what universe is getting LBJ/PG13 to add to a Lonzo/Ingram future core a bad world?


When it removes your favorite player. So much unneeded sophistry for something everyone would understand.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject:

Quote:
When it removes your favorite player. So much unneeded sophistry for something everyone would understand.


As a fan of DLO, when he was moved, it removed all notions that players were untouchable. I don't expect Lonzo/Ingram to be moved, but I don't think they're untouchable either, particularly with someone like Anthony Davis hovering in the background in the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


So basically one fantasy versus another. There are multiple ways to build a winner, we have to hope that our FO chooses one and doesn't try to play the middle.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


So basically one fantasy versus another. There are multiple ways to build a winner, we have to hope that our FO chooses one and doesn't try to play the middle.


The point is one constant (Lonzo/Ingram staying), and one likely event (2 max) vs. the status quo (keeping young core and starting to pay them more money).
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


While I didn't have a clue about the context I still agree with his statement alone.

I don't like the way we managed Jules and Russell giving them a starting position when they weren't ready.

I'm all in for the two superstars plan while I believe bringing two players like LB and PG13 that can play the same position as Ingram is not just good, but the best way to develop our young player.

I believe the best way to develop a young players is putting them on a winning program with great exemples to follow. It is clear that Ingram/Ball aren't going to prime while LeBron is still a dominant force and that is great because it provides continuity.

The youngsters should take a back seat until they are legit first options just learning the game and the nuances of winning close games and the mental aspect of the game.

Ingram has to keep improving this season to keep his untouchable status, but he is not going to lead us to post season in the near future.

Julius still has to show he is a starting quality PF in this league. In my mind there is no comparison between him and players like LeBron and PG13, it is the year he has to prove his "higher ceiling" can may him at least a better option than Nance/Kuzma.


If that's the case, not sure why you endorse the statement above. He is advocating for a long and organic rebuild, fraught with more consecutive losing years.

He's reversing the ends/means, with the youngsters being the ends. In what universe is getting LBJ/PG13 to add to a Lonzo/Ingram future core a bad world?


It is only a bad world if one expects a title. It is a path I support because I am tired of not being in the playoffs. But if you want a title then you deal Ingram and Ball for vets posed to win now. Otherwise the fit is clunky.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

Quote:

It is only a bad world if one expects a title. It is a path I support because I am tired of not being in the playoffs. But if you want a title then you deal Ingram and Ball for vets posed to win now. Otherwise the fit is clunky.


It's a good strategy to be in the mix while cultivating a future core. I think highly of Lonzo/Ingram, and i think they will benefit tremendously from LBJ/PG13.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


While I didn't have a clue about the context I still agree with his statement alone.

I don't like the way we managed Jules and Russell giving them a starting position when they weren't ready.

I'm all in for the two superstars plan while I believe bringing two players like LB and PG13 that can play the same position as Ingram is not just good, but the best way to develop our young player.

I believe the best way to develop a young players is putting them on a winning program with great exemples to follow. It is clear that Ingram/Ball aren't going to prime while LeBron is still a dominant force and that is great because it provides continuity.

The youngsters should take a back seat until they are legit first options just learning the game and the nuances of winning close games and the mental aspect of the game.

Ingram has to keep improving this season to keep his untouchable status, but he is not going to lead us to post season in the near future.

Julius still has to show he is a starting quality PF in this league. In my mind there is no comparison between him and players like LeBron and PG13, it is the year he has to prove his "higher ceiling" can may him at least a better option than Nance/Kuzma.


If that's the case, not sure why you endorse the statement above. He is advocating for a long and organic rebuild, fraught with more consecutive losing years.

He's reversing the ends/means, with the youngsters being the ends. In what universe is getting LBJ/PG13 to add to a Lonzo/Ingram future core a bad world?


It is only a bad world if one expects a title. It is a path I support because I am tired of not being in the playoffs. But if you want a title then you deal Ingram and Ball for vets posed to win now. Otherwise the fit is clunky.


Ah, so that's the new angle. Destroy the young core entirely because your favorite didn't make the cut.
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venturalakersfan
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs

So I'm advocating a team of:

LBJ/PG13/Lonzo/Ingram/Kuz (as the core guys)

And he's presumably advocating a same core sans LBJ/PG13, and keeping Jules.


While I didn't have a clue about the context I still agree with his statement alone.

I don't like the way we managed Jules and Russell giving them a starting position when they weren't ready.

I'm all in for the two superstars plan while I believe bringing two players like LB and PG13 that can play the same position as Ingram is not just good, but the best way to develop our young player.

I believe the best way to develop a young players is putting them on a winning program with great exemples to follow. It is clear that Ingram/Ball aren't going to prime while LeBron is still a dominant force and that is great because it provides continuity.

The youngsters should take a back seat until they are legit first options just learning the game and the nuances of winning close games and the mental aspect of the game.

Ingram has to keep improving this season to keep his untouchable status, but he is not going to lead us to post season in the near future.

Julius still has to show he is a starting quality PF in this league. In my mind there is no comparison between him and players like LeBron and PG13, it is the year he has to prove his "higher ceiling" can may him at least a better option than Nance/Kuzma.


If that's the case, not sure why you endorse the statement above. He is advocating for a long and organic rebuild, fraught with more consecutive losing years.

He's reversing the ends/means, with the youngsters being the ends. In what universe is getting LBJ/PG13 to add to a Lonzo/Ingram future core a bad world?


It is only a bad world if one expects a title. It is a path I support because I am tired of not being in the playoffs. But if you want a title then you deal Ingram and Ball for vets posed to win now. Otherwise the fit is clunky.


Ah, so that's the new angle. Destroy the young core entirely because your favorite didn't make the cut.


As usual I have no idea what you posted.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Quote:

It is only a bad world if one expects a title. It is a path I support because I am tired of not being in the playoffs. But if you want a title then you deal Ingram and Ball for vets posed to win now. Otherwise the fit is clunky.


It's a good strategy to be in the mix while cultivating a future core. I think highly of Lonzo/Ingram, and i think they will benefit tremendously from LBJ/PG13.


I am fine with that and I would be fine if they take the youth route. With the Warriors dominance, just being in the playoffs will be fun.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:33 am    Post subject:

There is not any incompatibility between signing two max free agents and keeping Ingram/Ball.

Considering contract situations alone the young players that may have to go are Clarkson and Julius, but there is a lot to be said about their developments and the players they are projected to be as well.

The first had a strong rookie season as starter and a promising start of second season, but after his injury he has regressed a lot making him overpaid at this point.

Julius main attribute is his speed for a player of his size as strong as he is. His best skill as a rookie was grabbing an elite amount of boards, but he has also regressed a lot from 13.1 REB/36 to 10.7 REB/36. I'd say taking Roy from the equation alongside his increased ability to finish around the board didn't have a good effect on his numbers. He is improving, but has to have a huge breakout season to be an option going forward.

Ingram and Ball have the untouchable status, but it is not something set in stone. Ball is a rookie, but Ingram has to improve to keep his status.
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:29 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs


Wrong.

Again, get it right if you're gonna try to bring what I've actually said up.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs


Wrong.

Again, get it right if you're gonna try to bring what I've actually said up.


Do remind us. Respectfully all I see is the wall of text condemning lbj and pg13 and praising Jules. Give us a condensed summary then please.
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26077

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:41 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
MJST wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
MJST wrote:

Letting our youngsters grow into the players they'll become by developing them properly isn't sitting idly by.


Post of the year



You do realize MJST:

1. is against signing LBJ/PG13 in 2018
2. is against moving Jules at all costs


Wrong.

Again, get it right if you're gonna try to bring what I've actually said up.


Do remind us. Respectfully all I see is the wall of text condemning lbj and pg13 and praising Jules. Give us a condensed summary then please.



What I do think however is that PG13 isn't "the guy" i'd be going after as a 'max savior' as I don't really see him as that big of a difference maker as people make him out to be tbh.

I think he's overhyped cause he was the first FA in a while to say our name and thus he got put on a pedestal he never has played up to.

To me, Paul George isn't even better than Jimmy Butler, and he's not a guy you build your franchise around, at best he's a 2nd option on a championship team, but most likely is the 3rd option (in the Kevin Love vein).

He showed immaturity in calling out his players for taking game winning shots over him, he failed when he had the opportunity at game winning shots, he showed his leadership immaturity once Granger was gone and his team fell apart around him because he wasn't a leader and he lost them.

This off-season turns around and requests a trade, supposedly primarily to the Lakers, he gets a trade to the OKC Thunder that essentially gave up nothing and is playing with the MVP that averaged a Triple Double, and then when on his new team says "we'll see" when it comes to whether or not he's still gonna sign with the Lakers.

Now if you're Westbrook, or the team that traded for him, you look at him with the side eye all year or you wonder just how immature you have to be to even make that kind of statement, or the kind of pressure, cloud it puts over your team. We may be thinking "heheheh!" because it's the Lakers. But imagine if Paul George was doing that to us instead and we'd be making the very same argument.

However this season in OKC is where we'll see how he does as a 2nd option next to Westbrook and how their chemistry holds up over the year. We'll get a lot of answers from this season and seeing him in that role.


I still stand by my statement that if BI came out this season and averaged 15-17 ppg that we may not need to pursue Paul George in FA and should look at other weaker positions like center and shooting guard.


My stance on LBJ however has always remained the same

LBJ on a 1+1 deal where he can hold us hostage and make us do things with the prospect of him leaving in a season hanging over our heads? Heck no.

LBJ committing to a 3-4 year deal? Heck yes.

Simple as that.
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