Chris Vernon & Kevin O'Conner of The Ringer NBA Show talks about which second year player they expect to see a giant leap from this season. They both hands down said Brandon Ingram. Vernon goes on to talk about an article he read from Frank Urbina of Hoopshype about Ingram.
"In 2016-17, Ingram became just the fifth player in league history to total at least 150 assists, 50 three-pointers and 36 blocks for a season before the age of 19. The other five were Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Kevin Durant."
That's some serious company. Here's the link to the podcast. Fast forward to the 54 minute mark to hear all about Ingram.
If anyone averages more points than him, it'll be Lopez. That's it.
KCP might be close to a 20ppg guy IMO
in his 4yr career his max average is 14.5. I doubt he is going to jump so high while covering the toughest assignment on the other end
Never said above 20 but I believe he was trending at closer to 16/17 before he got injured and he's never played with a point like Lonzo who looks ahead for those advance passes which is something KCP thrives at... To think he goes from 15 to 18/19/20 is not a huge stretch.
But unless he's crazy efficient almost every game, I just don't see him scoring more than Ingram because Ingram will have a lot more plays being called for him. It won't be like last year where he was just another player out there. The offense is gonna be ran through him a lot. And his changed mentality has to be factored in as well. This year he'll be thinking score first as opposed to just trying to fit in as a playmaker like he did last year when he mostly played with shoot first guys.
With no Lou, Russell, Swaggy, and probably less time on the court with Clarkson, there's going to be a lot more shots to go around and he'll be higher on the food chain than KCP will. _________________ “Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
If anyone averages more points than him, it'll be Lopez. That's it.
KCP might be close to a 20ppg guy IMO
in his 4yr career his max average is 14.5. I doubt he is going to jump so high while covering the toughest assignment on the other end
Never said above 20 but I believe he was trending at closer to 16/17 before he got injured and he's never played with a point like Lonzo who looks ahead for those advance passes which is something KCP thrives at... To think he goes from 15 to 18/19/20 is not a huge stretch.
But unless he's crazy efficient almost every game, I just don't see him scoring more than Ingram because Ingram will have a lot more plays being called for him. It won't be like last year where he was just another player out there. The offense is gonna be ran through him a lot. And his changed mentality has to be factored in as well. This year he'll be thinking score first as opposed to just trying to fit in as a playmaker like he did last year when he mostly played with shoot first guys.
With no Lou, Russell, Swaggy, and probably less time on the court with Clarkson, there's going to be a lot more shots to go around and he'll be higher on the food chain than KCP will.
I agree that BI seems to have turned a corner in terms of his comfortability... just the way he interviews sounds like a different man. If he plays with he aggression he did at SL, then year he's higher on the food chain I suppose. But I also think that we're a team who on most nights will have a completely different scoring scoring. Some nights Ju, some nights JC, some nights BI, some nights Brook, and some nights KCP.
But I'm not saying KCP is a 20+ scorer.. I'm simply saying that I could see him bumping up to 17/18 a game which is a basket off from 20.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:38 am Post subject:
I think Ingram will have a more prominent role scoring, but it just doesnt make sense that he would be the #1 option. Lopez is too skilled in the post and has pick and pop ability out to 3. On a bad team, he's getting 20ppg. Now I just expect him around 30mpg, but I don't think it's realistic for Ingram to have such a massive jump scoring unless his 3pt shot is 40%. That one skill alone opens so much of the rest of his game. He has plenty of stride length, adequate quickness, and court vision to make him a credible slashing threat. How he attacks close outs and creates shots on the move is more important to his scoring than his Iso shot creation. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Honestly I wouldn't be shocked at all if Ingram was our 3rd or 4th best scorer this season behind guys like Lopez, KCP, Ball, Randle. The leading scorer is up for grabs. I think at the end of the day the guy who plays the most will be up there. In some ways Luke has some control over that.
I'm expecting him to be below Brook, Randle, and KCP, but above Ball.
I'm expecting BI to put up 20-22 ppg.
That big of a jump would be pretty crazy.
But not unprecedented.
KG went from 10 ppg at age 19 to 17 at age 20
Z-Bo went from 8 ppg at age 20 to 20 ppg at age 21
LA went from 9 ppg as a rookie to 18 as a soph.
Dirk went from 8 to 18
Jamison went from 10 to 20
Several smaller guys have had +10 ppg jumps in their 2nd year.
Player................Jump in PPG...........Jump in MPG
Kevin Garnett...........+6.6......................+10.2
Zach Randolph........+11.7......................+21.0
LaMarcus Aldridge.....+8.2......................+12.8
Dirk Nowitzki............+9.3......................+15.4
Antawn Jamison......+10.0......................+13.7
Brandon Ingram scored 9.4ppg in 28.8mpg last year. So unless he's getting 43mpg this season, him jumping in up to 20-22ppg would be an unprecedented feat.
James Harden went from 16.8 to 26 with an additional 7mpg
Honestly I wouldn't be shocked at all if Ingram was our 3rd or 4th best scorer this season behind guys like Lopez, KCP, Ball, Randle. The leading scorer is up for grabs. I think at the end of the day the guy who plays the most will be up there. In some ways Luke has some control over that.
I'm expecting him to be below Brook, Randle, and KCP, but above Ball.
I'm expecting BI to put up 20-22 ppg.
That big of a jump would be pretty crazy.
But not unprecedented.
KG went from 10 ppg at age 19 to 17 at age 20
Z-Bo went from 8 ppg at age 20 to 20 ppg at age 21
LA went from 9 ppg as a rookie to 18 as a soph.
Dirk went from 8 to 18
Jamison went from 10 to 20
Several smaller guys have had +10 ppg jumps in their 2nd year.
Player................Jump in PPG...........Jump in MPG
Kevin Garnett...........+6.6......................+10.2
Zach Randolph........+11.7......................+21.0
LaMarcus Aldridge.....+8.2......................+12.8
Dirk Nowitzki............+9.3......................+15.4
Antawn Jamison......+10.0......................+13.7
Brandon Ingram scored 9.4ppg in 28.8mpg last year. So unless he's getting 43mpg this season, him jumping in up to 20-22ppg would be an unprecedented feat.
Aren't there believed to be diminishing returns on rookie production with given minutes though? You can make the argument that Luke played him more minutes than he deserved or was ready for, and that other coaches that limit playing time to younger rookies are justified more often than not in doing so.
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6937 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
Posted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:50 pm Post subject:
It has to do with with shots per game more than mins per game.
Garnett - 9.2 shots per game to 14.3
Randolph - 6.7 to 16.9
Aldridge - 7.6 to 15.3
Nowitzki - 7.1 to 13.6
Jamison - 8.4 to 17.6
Ingram took 8.7 shots last year.
So it's more about being the go-to player as opposed to a fringe offensive option.... not minutes as long as Ingram gets them. _________________ "He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you."
It has to do with with shots per game more than mins per game.
Garnett - 9.2 shots per game to 14.3
Randolph - 6.7 to 16.9
Aldridge - 7.6 to 15.3
Nowitzki - 7.1 to 13.6
Jamison - 8.4 to 17.6
Ingram took 8.7 shots last year.
So it's more about being the go-to player as opposed to a fringe offensive option.... not minutes as long as Ingram gets them.
Minutes adjusted FGAs would be more accurate, fwiw.
But arguably BI's biggest issue last season was that he didn't put up shots (only 10.7 FGAs per36), and it's not a fait accompli that he'll be able to put up significantly more attempts per36 next season. The hope is that he finds and makes more "easy" assisted shots next season with an improved stroke and Lonzo passing him the ball, because BI iso-ing in the mid-post over and over could get old quick.
Chris Vernon & Kevin O'Conner of The Ringer NBA Show talks about which second year player they expect to see a giant leap from this season. They both hands down said Brandon Ingram. Vernon goes on to talk about an article he read from Frank Urbina of Hoopshype about Ingram.
"In 2016-17, Ingram became just the fifth player in league history to total at least 150 assists, 50 three-pointers and 36 blocks for a season before the age of 19. The other five were Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Kevin Durant."
That's some serious company. Here's the link to the podcast. Fast forward to the 54 minute mark to hear all about Ingram.
That can't be right. He turned 19 September 2nd. That means he was 19 during the season, so he can't be the fifth player to do so before 19.
Great catch. I heard it on the Ringer NBA show and copied and pasted it straight from Frank Urbina's article. Without doing the math, Carmelo and Durant would have also been 19 during their rookie season. Not sure what the writer was referring to.
Chris Vernon & Kevin O'Conner of The Ringer NBA Show talks about which second year player they expect to see a giant leap from this season. They both hands down said Brandon Ingram. Vernon goes on to talk about an article he read from Frank Urbina of Hoopshype about Ingram.
"In 2016-17, Ingram became just the fifth player in league history to total at least 150 assists, 50 three-pointers and 36 blocks for a season before the age of 19. The other five were Kobe Bryant, Carmelo Anthony, LeBron James and Kevin Durant."
That's some serious company. Here's the link to the podcast. Fast forward to the 54 minute mark to hear all about Ingram.
That can't be right. He turned 19 September 2nd. That means he was 19 during the season, so he can't be the fifth player to do so before 19.
Great catch. I heard it on the Ringer NBA show and copied and pasted it straight from Frank Urbina's article. Without doing the math, Carmelo and Durant would have also been 19 during their rookie season. Not sure what the writer was referring to.
Appreciate that. Another LG'er posted "details" to my post as if it's a minor point, and that the "details" were trivial.
I assert that if one of us had posted it, instead of copying someone else's source of information like Urbina's, the board who have expected them to be accurate. I guarantee that those who keep official NBA records would say it matters.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
So did he grow 3 inches or not?
says he got measured today and he's 6'9 not 6'11
I bet a lot of LGers who swore he grew a couple inches are pretty sad right now lol. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
It has to do with with shots per game more than mins per game.
Garnett - 9.2 shots per game to 14.3
Randolph - 6.7 to 16.9
Aldridge - 7.6 to 15.3
Nowitzki - 7.1 to 13.6
Jamison - 8.4 to 17.6
Ingram took 8.7 shots last year.
So it's more about being the go-to player as opposed to a fringe offensive option.... not minutes as long as Ingram gets them.
This is a better way to look at how Ingram's scoring can improve. Also the added factor of Lonzo and the fast style of play we should be seeing this year will add a PPG boost to almost everyone of the team.
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject:
venturalakersfan wrote:
LandsbergerRules wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
lakersfan32 wrote:
So did he grow 3 inches or not?
says he got measured today and he's 6'9 not 6'11
I bet a lot of LGers who swore he grew a couple inches are pretty sad right now lol.
Why does it matter, they don’t play the game with the top of their heads.
Don't ask me. Ask the dudes who seem obsessed with the idea that BI has grown a couple inches since he was drafted lol. _________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him
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