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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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 Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | If we realize Kuzma's potential then we have ourselves a player. If Luke is cute with his rotations this year or inhibits Kuzma in any way (as he did DLO), AND Kuzma is beasting, then I imagine Magic will step in and literally force Kuzma out on the court so that we have a chance of attracting an FA.
I don't think BI is ready to attract much of anything, but hopefully he improves a bit. Kuzma and I think Lonzo are ready to do some serious damage if they're given the reigns. Randle too if he stays conscious. |
I honestly kinda think that even if Ingram doesn't pick it up, BI may have a mandate to start in order to prove Magic's own words right. But you can call me cynical. |
Ok, I'm calling you cynical. Magic wants to win. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say a good 80% of the commentary on this board is a result of many of you not understanding what it is to be patient with young prospects.
I don't fault you, we haven't had a lot of home grown talent. But the fact that a good portion of you are making predictions about what kind of career he will have makes it abundantly clear that you have zero patience and you don't know what you're talking about.
Some players jump out the gate faster than others. Most take time to develop into quality players.
LG is filled with members of the psychic network with all this predicting of the future that's going on.. either that or God has given you all the gift of prophesy lol..
Calm down.. |
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mookielala
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Pretty sure almost everyone's opinions of these players is going to fluctuate wildly over this season. I still think BI is going to be great, and he will show a lot this year. |
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| If Ingram isn't ready, he isn't ready. He's a skinny guy with little strength. It may take a while, so what? Paul George wasn't Paul George until year 3 and he played 2 years of college. Let things happen in their time and be glad we have Kuzma. |
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | I'd say a good 80% of the commentary on this board is a result of many of you not understanding what it is to be patient with young prospects.
I don't fault you, we haven't had a lot of home grown talent. But the fact that a good portion of you are making predictions about what kind of career he will have makes it abundantly clear that you have zero patience and you don't know what you're talking about.
Some players jump out the gate faster than others. Most take time to develop into quality players.
LG is filled with members of the psychic network with all this predicting of the future that's going on.. either that or God has given you all the gift of prophesy lol..
Calm down.. |
Good points, I agree. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:29 pm Post subject: |
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| kevin61 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | If we realize Kuzma's potential then we have ourselves a player. If Luke is cute with his rotations this year or inhibits Kuzma in any way (as he did DLO), AND Kuzma is beasting, then I imagine Magic will step in and literally force Kuzma out on the court so that we have a chance of attracting an FA.
I don't think BI is ready to attract much of anything, but hopefully he improves a bit. Kuzma and I think Lonzo are ready to do some serious damage if they're given the reigns. Randle too if he stays conscious. |
I honestly kinda think that even if Ingram doesn't pick it up, BI may have a mandate to start in order to prove Magic's own words right. But you can call me cynical. |
Ok, I'm calling you cynical. Magic wants to win. |
I admit it's a possibility. |
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SGV-Laker fan
Star Player
Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 9087
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| The drop offs between 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in those two drafts were huge. It went from KAT to Russell and the next year went from Simmons to Ingram. Both Russell and Ingram have one major flaw, both are NOT good at one particular area. You can preach patience all you want but that’s just excuses that we wasted two 2nd overall picks on some ho hum prospects. |
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kb24isback
Sixth Man
Joined: 31 Oct 2012
Posts: 64
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| lakez34 wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | tnell wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | tnell wrote: | | God I hope Kuzma doesn't lay a dud cuz y'all gone torn on him next. Every young player we getting eventually gets dumped on by this board. |
He got drafted second overall and was labeled the next KD by many on here. He’s not getting dumped on cause of one bad game, it’s cause he’s fallen WAYYYY short of even reasonable expectations for over a year now. |
It's been 4 games in PRESEASON after tweaking his shot this summer. Of he's still playing like crap durning the regular season then talk to me. Like I said as soon as Kuzma comes back down to earth ppl on this board will dump on him just like they've done to Randle, Clarkson, Ingram, and Russell. |
Look at that list. He had BY FAR the worst rookie year outta all 4 of those guys and was drafted the highest. Russell is the only one of those guys who received unwarranted hate and that’s for off court reasons. Ingram has been hugely disappointing thus far and there is nothing unfair about saying that.
The fact he needed to tweak his shot after coming into the league is a reason for concern not hope. He was supposed to be a shooter coming outta college. |
He showed good instinct last year (seemed to know the right play to run, the right thing to do). This year, in preseason, he hasn't shown that same instinct and instead seems to just want to drive to the hoop every single time with no clear path and/or advantage, and his defense has remained mediocre. Combine that with his bad shooting, and totally agree, he's been disappointing to say the least. I still think he'll come around, as he did last year, and it's obvious expectations are high on him, but he does need to start showing signs of growth this year. |
you realize that the other teams were leaving him open and allowing to just roam on the floor. the other 29 scouts in the nba know his game inside out. he can't shoot and no matter what you think the plays he made are trivia plays that every nba player should know how to make when they are not the focal point on their respective teams offence.
he hasn't shown any flashes of being a scorer and will never be one. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | I'd say a good 80% of the commentary on this board is a result of many of you not understanding what it is to be patient with young prospects.
I don't fault you, we haven't had a lot of home grown talent. But the fact that a good portion of you are making predictions about what kind of career he will have makes it abundantly clear that you have zero patience and you don't know what you're talking about.
Some players jump out the gate faster than others. Most take time to develop into quality players.
LG is filled with members of the psychic network with all this predicting of the future that's going on.. either that or God has given you all the gift of prophesy lol..
Calm down.. |
lol This is the silliest thing. I'm patient with Julius Randle. I was patient with Clarkson until he started aging out of the point where it was warranted and it's time to admit he is what he is. I was patient with Russell. The difference with BI is that he is not showing the progress one would expect for a guy entering his second season. There's nothing impatient or spoiled about not seeing progress. Particularly when the bar was set so low for you in your rookie season that you could still not be a good rotation player/starter and still garner praise for the improvement.
Does any of this mean that Ingram is a bust? No, but it's worth discussing because it is concerning. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | The drop offs between 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in those two drafts were huge. It went from KAT to Russell and the next year went from Simmons to Ingram. Both Russell and Ingram have one major flaw, both are NOT good at one particular area. You can preach patience all you want but that’s just excuses that we wasted two 2nd overall picks on some ho hum prospects. |
smh.. Russel put up some solid numbers during his tenure here in spite of his attitude. He's also playing well thus far with his new team. Your post illustrates the point I made earlier.
You guys aren't accustomed to watching young talent develop. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd say a good 80% of the commentary on this board is a result of many of you not understanding what it is to be patient with young prospects.
I don't fault you, we haven't had a lot of home grown talent. But the fact that a good portion of you are making predictions about what kind of career he will have makes it abundantly clear that you have zero patience and you don't know what you're talking about.
Some players jump out the gate faster than others. Most take time to develop into quality players.
LG is filled with members of the psychic network with all this predicting of the future that's going on.. either that or God has given you all the gift of prophesy lol..
Calm down.. |
lol This is the silliest thing. I'm patient with Julius Randle. I was patient with Clarkson until he started aging out of the point where it was warranted and it's time to admit he is what he is. I was patient with Russell. The difference with BI is that he is not showing the progress one would expect for a guy entering his second season. There's nothing impatient or spoiled about not seeing progress. Particularly when the bar was set so low for you in your rookie season that you could still not be a good rotation player/starter and still garner praise for the improvement.
Does any of this mean that Ingram is a bust? No, but it's worth discussing because it is concerning. |
Take another look at what's being said in this thread then get back to me.. You may not be calling him a bust, but the sentiment is being communicated by others. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | The drop offs between 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in those two drafts were huge. It went from KAT to Russell and the next year went from Simmons to Ingram. Both Russell and Ingram have one major flaw, both are NOT good at one particular area. You can preach patience all you want but that’s just excuses that we wasted two 2nd overall picks on some ho hum prospects. |
Eh. I wouldn't even compare Russell to Ingram. Russell may not be great at anything, but he's good at a few things offensively (above average shooter, can run offenses, run pick and roll, above average vision and passing skills, moves well off ball), and we could see it in his rookie year, much less last year. Conversely, Ingram has yet to show he's actually good at anything. |
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lakersfan32
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 3931
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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| MJST wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Maginka's plans were based on Lonzo having a great year, and BI busting out to attract the big boys. No matter what they say in front of the camera about patience this and that, it's baloney. |
yep and Magic bet on the wrong guy, probably listening to Byron instead of something that should trump Byron 24/7 and that's a little thing called common sense.
See if the FO had actually played Lonzo and Russell together and SEEN if it would work it would have been a smarter move AND playing the long game,
But Magic didn't want the long game, he wants the "We're getting two max's if we clear cap cause we're the Lakers and in Los Angeles" game.....
Unfortunately these are the kind of unnecessary gambles that cause this stuff to happen. |
Yeah, I would like to know if Brook was going to be traded in the Summer no matter what. What was the panic? Couldn't they have seen a little of Lonzo/Russell first before making the deal this season?
The thing that puzzles me is that you should know whether or not a dude can play. Is Ingram dominating practices? I mean if they're seeing the same struggles in practice such as not being able to get by Kuz or Randle, getting every shot contested, etc. then it should be a big red flag. But all I ever hear are glowing reviews. What's done is done, so for our sake, I hope this kid breaks out. |
If the choices they had in front of them were legitimately.. sending Ingram to the Pacers for Paul George.. and sending Russell to the Nets for Lopez...
They dun goof'd. |
Don't forget Ingram for Cousins, lol. |
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | kevin61 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Don Draper wrote: | If we realize Kuzma's potential then we have ourselves a player. If Luke is cute with his rotations this year or inhibits Kuzma in any way (as he did DLO), AND Kuzma is beasting, then I imagine Magic will step in and literally force Kuzma out on the court so that we have a chance of attracting an FA.
I don't think BI is ready to attract much of anything, but hopefully he improves a bit. Kuzma and I think Lonzo are ready to do some serious damage if they're given the reigns. Randle too if he stays conscious. |
I honestly kinda think that even if Ingram doesn't pick it up, BI may have a mandate to start in order to prove Magic's own words right. But you can call me cynical. |
Ok, I'm calling you cynical. Magic wants to win. |
I admit it's a possibility. |
A man who knows himself, respect. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd say a good 80% of the commentary on this board is a result of many of you not understanding what it is to be patient with young prospects.
I don't fault you, we haven't had a lot of home grown talent. But the fact that a good portion of you are making predictions about what kind of career he will have makes it abundantly clear that you have zero patience and you don't know what you're talking about.
Some players jump out the gate faster than others. Most take time to develop into quality players.
LG is filled with members of the psychic network with all this predicting of the future that's going on.. either that or God has given you all the gift of prophesy lol..
Calm down.. |
lol This is the silliest thing. I'm patient with Julius Randle. I was patient with Clarkson until he started aging out of the point where it was warranted and it's time to admit he is what he is. I was patient with Russell. The difference with BI is that he is not showing the progress one would expect for a guy entering his second season. There's nothing impatient or spoiled about not seeing progress. Particularly when the bar was set so low for you in your rookie season that you could still not be a good rotation player/starter and still garner praise for the improvement.
Does any of this mean that Ingram is a bust? No, but it's worth discussing because it is concerning. |
Take another look at what's being said in this thread then get back to me.. You may not be calling him a bust, but the sentiment is being communicated by others. |
Fair enough. And while I personally wouldn't go that far, it's also hard for me to argue that the people calling bust don't have more evidence supporting the argument than the side that says he's going to be an All-Star. I really have no idea where Ingram is going to end up, and that's the most I can say about him either way. But despite people saying that others are over reacting over three preseason games, I'd say there's 79 games of evidence from last season and a lack of progression in three preseason games that are cause for concern. |
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GODBE
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 235
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Tony Anapolis wrote: |
Otherwise I would have no problems packaging him with Deng if it meant we get 3 stars next year? |
This should be the plan at this point. |
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kevin61
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 1332
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | The drop offs between 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in those two drafts were huge. It went from KAT to Russell and the next year went from Simmons to Ingram. Both Russell and Ingram have one major flaw, both are NOT good at one particular area. You can preach patience all you want but that’s just excuses that we wasted two 2nd overall picks on some ho hum prospects. |
Eh. I wouldn't even compare Russell to Ingram. Russell may not be great at anything, but he's good at a few things offensively (above average shooter, can run offenses, run pick and roll, above average vision and passing skills, moves well off ball), and we could see it in his rookie year, much less last year. Conversely, Ingram has yet to show he's actually good at anything. |
The greatest difference between the two is attitude, work ethic, but mostly physical stature. Ingram has uncommon length for a guy with his skills. |
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KBH
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Sep 2008
Posts: 12171
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| kevin61 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | The drop offs between 1st overall and 2nd overall picks in those two drafts were huge. It went from KAT to Russell and the next year went from Simmons to Ingram. Both Russell and Ingram have one major flaw, both are NOT good at one particular area. You can preach patience all you want but that’s just excuses that we wasted two 2nd overall picks on some ho hum prospects. |
Eh. I wouldn't even compare Russell to Ingram. Russell may not be great at anything, but he's good at a few things offensively (above average shooter, can run offenses, run pick and roll, above average vision and passing skills, moves well off ball), and we could see it in his rookie year, much less last year. Conversely, Ingram has yet to show he's actually good at anything. |
The greatest difference between the two is attitude, work ethic, but mostly physical stature. Ingram has length that is very uncommon for a guy with his skills. |
I'd argue the biggest difference is being able to leverage your skills into tangible production. And I'd say the reason for that is because Ingram's "skills" aren't nearly as refined as people say they are. D'Angelo Russell one year ago was light years ahead of Ingram now. If he's doing that with "poor" work ethic (though I don't think a guy with somewhat limited athleticism like him becomes a productive NBA player at 20/21 with poor work ethic anyway) compared to Ingram being a workhorse, then that's more reason to work and be patient with a guy who may be a bit immature. |
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KBH wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | I'd say a good 80% of the commentary on this board is a result of many of you not understanding what it is to be patient with young prospects.
I don't fault you, we haven't had a lot of home grown talent. But the fact that a good portion of you are making predictions about what kind of career he will have makes it abundantly clear that you have zero patience and you don't know what you're talking about.
Some players jump out the gate faster than others. Most take time to develop into quality players.
LG is filled with members of the psychic network with all this predicting of the future that's going on.. either that or God has given you all the gift of prophesy lol..
Calm down.. |
lol This is the silliest thing. I'm patient with Julius Randle. I was patient with Clarkson until he started aging out of the point where it was warranted and it's time to admit he is what he is. I was patient with Russell. The difference with BI is that he is not showing the progress one would expect for a guy entering his second season. There's nothing impatient or spoiled about not seeing progress. Particularly when the bar was set so low for you in your rookie season that you could still not be a good rotation player/starter and still garner praise for the improvement.
Does any of this mean that Ingram is a bust? No, but it's worth discussing because it is concerning. |
Take another look at what's being said in this thread then get back to me.. You may not be calling him a bust, but the sentiment is being communicated by others. |
Fair enough. And while I personally wouldn't go that far, it's also hard for me to argue that the people calling bust don't have more evidence supporting the argument than the side that says he's going to be an All-Star. I really have no idea where Ingram is going to end up, and that's the most I can say about him either way. But despite people saying that others are over reacting over three preseason games, I'd say there's 79 games of evidence from last season and a lack of progression in three preseason games that are cause for concern. |
Given his play as of late, I can no longer defend him with the same fervor as is customary for me lol.. I can understand the critiques and reservations, he hasn't done anything to silence those who are critical. I'm just saying we don't know what he will be just yet.. And what he is now, is not who he will be. He's a raw lump of clay.. I know it's ugly, he knows its ugly (his game).. Lets try to keep a cool head while he's being molded into a better player. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18065
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | I think some people just need to re-adjust expectations. Baby steps. Let's see improvement this year and relax. He's still a baby. But he's obviously not going to be an all-star this year. |
Strictly from the POV of Ingram's development, I agree with you. But there's some degree of urgency due to our 2018 Free Agent plans...which are really just hopes at this point. I think it's critical that LeBron/PG13 look at this roster and say "yeah, they can play supporting roles" or, like Andrew Wiggins, are talented enough to be able to flip for someone who's more ready to compete.
Maybe it doesn't need to be Ingram who's ready to be good this year, but overall this team has to show something, and Ingram seems to be crucial to getting to that point. |
I feel like 3rd year is when you really start to see guys come into their own. Unfortunately we traded one of our 3rd year lottery picks, and the other one is gone if the 2 max plan ever comes to fruition. |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26924
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | The Lebrons wrote: | | I think some people just need to re-adjust expectations. Baby steps. Let's see improvement this year and relax. He's still a baby. But he's obviously not going to be an all-star this year. |
Strictly from the POV of Ingram's development, I agree with you. But there's some degree of urgency due to our 2018 Free Agent plans...which are really just hopes at this point. I think it's critical that LeBron/PG13 look at this roster and say "yeah, they can play supporting roles" or, like Andrew Wiggins, are talented enough to be able to flip for someone who's more ready to compete.
Maybe it doesn't need to be Ingram who's ready to be good this year, but overall this team has to show something, and Ingram seems to be crucial to getting to that point. |
I feel like 3rd year is when you really start to see guys come into their own. Unfortunately we traded one of our 3rd year lottery picks, and the other one is gone if the 2 max plan ever comes to fruition. |
too bad the kid poised for the breakout 3rd year that you'd hope could convince the stars to come in that vein is the one Magic traded away eh?
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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mookielala
Star Player
Joined: 29 Jul 2012
Posts: 3026
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| how many preseason games without a discernible offense is everyone basing their opinions on? i'll admit he's looked slower and his shot hasn't been falling, but it's only a few preseason games. all the young guys are going to look lost at some point this season. even the vets will look bad on some nights because we are not a good team yet. bi changed his shot over the summer, that's not a small thing. he just turned 20, he's changing his body and his diet. he doesn't have much experience and he's not playing in a solid system. it's not unexpected that he might be erratic. and if your response is look at his play so far, then really think about how many minutes that opinion is based on. we've got another 80 plus games to play, hopefully with a more focussed offense. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18065
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | Honestly, the issue is moving away from being Magic's 20 ppg proclamations and "untouchable" and a matter of showing progress. |
We can only hope he finds his sea legs because it's sure early. I'm hoping maybe he's just having a slow start, I'm not expecting 20PPG but I am expecting tangible, statistical improvement from last year.
I don't think it's crazy to want him to look like a second overall pick at some point |
If nothing else, his defensive metrics should go up a lot |
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MJST
Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26924
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | MJST wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Maginka's plans were based on Lonzo having a great year, and BI busting out to attract the big boys. No matter what they say in front of the camera about patience this and that, it's baloney. |
yep and Magic bet on the wrong guy, probably listening to Byron instead of something that should trump Byron 24/7 and that's a little thing called common sense.
See if the FO had actually played Lonzo and Russell together and SEEN if it would work it would have been a smarter move AND playing the long game,
But Magic didn't want the long game, he wants the "We're getting two max's if we clear cap cause we're the Lakers and in Los Angeles" game.....
Unfortunately these are the kind of unnecessary gambles that cause this stuff to happen. |
Yeah, I would like to know if Brook was going to be traded in the Summer no matter what. What was the panic? Couldn't they have seen a little of Lonzo/Russell first before making the deal this season?
The thing that puzzles me is that you should know whether or not a dude can play. Is Ingram dominating practices? I mean if they're seeing the same struggles in practice such as not being able to get by Kuz or Randle, getting every shot contested, etc. then it should be a big red flag. But all I ever hear are glowing reviews. What's done is done, so for our sake, I hope this kid breaks out. |
If the choices they had in front of them were legitimately.. sending Ingram to the Pacers for Paul George.. and sending Russell to the Nets for Lopez...
They dun goof'd. |
Don't forget Ingram for Cousins, lol. |
Imagine the package we could have gotten from the Nets if we traded Ingram there instead of Russell.
Lopez, the 27th Pick, a future 1st and probably LeVert too.
If Ingram's value was essentially where the Pacers or the Kings would take him straight up for George or Cousins.. we could have made a coup from the Nets.
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:54 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 18065
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| Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan32 wrote: |
Don't forget Ingram for Cousins, lol. |
I still think that was smart. |
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