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Big Game Jeff
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 Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:11 am Post subject: |
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Brandon looks like a newborn giraffe when he tries to force dribble drives into the paint. His outside shot is decent, but nothing to write home about.
Mgmt has def overvalued this kid...
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32
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Hopefully tonight is the break out game we have been waiting for. It would be nice to end preseason with a great performance that would give him confidence going into opening night.
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Last edited by 32 on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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al242
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Who does the public think is slower, Ingram or Russell? We complained that Russell was too slow to play PG, but how would he have performed as a SG with his foot-speed. Is he slower than Ingram? |
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Don Draper
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Joined: 21 Feb 2008
Posts: 28431
Location: LA --> Bay Area
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | Who does the public think is slower, Ingram or Russell? We complained that Russell was too slow to play PG, but how would he have performed as a SG with his foot-speed. Is he slower than Ingram? |
Ingram's issue is not having enough balance/body control to react to things at NBA speeds. When he changes momentum or shifts direction he looks like wet concrete in human form out there. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| RCS926 wrote: | | One other thing worth pointing out with regards to BI and Kuz's handles is that you can tell BI has confidence in his handles and believes he can use them to get to the rim at will. However, it leads to overdribbling and overpenetration. Kuz knows his limits, so he doesn't force things off the dribble. Plus, he uses those nifty spin moves to compensate for his lack of shake off the dribble. |
the problem is teams know Ingram can't shoot, so they load back to defend his drives cause it's ALL he has, and he doesn't have Giannis's strength or athleticism to compensate for it.
So they defend him by sitting on his right cause he only has one move out of the triple threat he goes for 95% of the time which they've scouted and are starting to sit on and cause him to make offensive fouls.
And they wait for him at the rim because they know he isn't gonna make them pay with a consistent jump shot.
If Ingram was capable of coming off screens, curls and playsets to nail the jumper off the dribble like Kuzma can then you'd find he'd get many more opportunities at the basket because the defense would have to step up to defend him, thus opening up the lane and giving him an opportunity.
As it stands however the defense only has 2 moves they have to worry about, and they've already got it figured out in pre-season...
Up to Ingram to change that.
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | From Zach Lowe's column today (though i think it's partially in good fun--i.e. we don't need the always useful "He's a Celtic fan/Laker hater" comments)
| Quote: | | Related bonus prediction: Indiana is a near-lock to flip one or both of Bogdanovic and Darren Collison, guaranteed just $3.5 million combined in 2018-19. If the Lakers send Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram to Indy for those deals (and some sweetener), the league should be very afraid L.A. knows a certain someone is in the bag. |
Not that I think this would happen, but if the Lakers are as far from a playoff team as I think they'll be--which means they're as untalented as we're afraid they are (or, i should say, years away from maturing into what could be a talented team), you're not getting Lebron and another max guy here to take a discount for the chance to play with a sophomore Lonzo and a redshirt junior Ingram. You'll need max money for that. If by the end of the year Lebron barely knows who Ingram is, his best value might be in getting rid of Deng. 
Edit: even though i've joked about this, i think it would be really dumb to do this unless Lebron is sitting with a pen in his hand and just waiting for us to add a few more million to his deal. Trading another lottery pick we suffered a whole losing season for just to undo a bad contract--even one time--was, to me, a catastrophe. If we did it again, we'd need to invent a new word for it. |
Meh, as I stated before, what is the value in dumping Deng? If you can get rid of Clarkson and not re-sign Randle, you open room for LeBron and George. That's what they should do. It might be a pain in the ass trading Clarkson for cap room (maybe even a future protected 1st) but it won't require trading BI.
Interestingly, they can then package Ingram+Deng to get a more win now type player (Deng's salary would let them get back ~20M) depending on what Ingram is worth.
But trading Ingram just to dump Deng? Makes no sense. |
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | | Who does the public think is slower, Ingram or Russell? We complained that Russell was too slow to play PG, but how would he have performed as a SG with his foot-speed. Is he slower than Ingram? |
Yes. In a straight line drive where he can put those long strides to use, Ingram can be pretty implosive. |
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av3773
Star Player
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| One thing I feel I've seen is BI dribbling a little high so he get's the ball swiped/deflected or loses the control going through traffic |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | From Zach Lowe's column today (though i think it's partially in good fun--i.e. we don't need the always useful "He's a Celtic fan/Laker hater" comments)
| Quote: | | Related bonus prediction: Indiana is a near-lock to flip one or both of Bogdanovic and Darren Collison, guaranteed just $3.5 million combined in 2018-19. If the Lakers send Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram to Indy for those deals (and some sweetener), the league should be very afraid L.A. knows a certain someone is in the bag. |
Not that I think this would happen, but if the Lakers are as far from a playoff team as I think they'll be--which means they're as untalented as we're afraid they are (or, i should say, years away from maturing into what could be a talented team), you're not getting Lebron and another max guy here to take a discount for the chance to play with a sophomore Lonzo and a redshirt junior Ingram. You'll need max money for that. If by the end of the year Lebron barely knows who Ingram is, his best value might be in getting rid of Deng.
Edit: even though i've joked about this, i think it would be really dumb to do this unless Lebron is sitting with a pen in his hand and just waiting for us to add a few more million to his deal. Trading another lottery pick we suffered a whole losing season for just to undo a bad contract--even one time--was, to me, a catastrophe. If we did it again, we'd need to invent a new word for it. |
Meh, as I stated before, what is the value in dumping Deng? If you can get rid of Clarkson and not re-sign Randle, you open room for LeBron and George. That's what they should do. It might be a pain in the ass trading Clarkson for cap room (maybe even a future protected 1st) but it won't require trading BI.
Interestingly, they can then package Ingram+Deng to get a more win now type player (Deng's salary would let them get back ~20M) depending on what Ingram is worth.
But trading Ingram just to dump Deng? Makes no sense. |
IF things continue like this with BI my hope would be we could do that for Klay. But obviously that would take a lot of other low probability circumstances to happen lol |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | From Zach Lowe's column today (though i think it's partially in good fun--i.e. we don't need the always useful "He's a Celtic fan/Laker hater" comments)
| Quote: | | Related bonus prediction: Indiana is a near-lock to flip one or both of Bogdanovic and Darren Collison, guaranteed just $3.5 million combined in 2018-19. If the Lakers send Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram to Indy for those deals (and some sweetener), the league should be very afraid L.A. knows a certain someone is in the bag. |
Not that I think this would happen, but if the Lakers are as far from a playoff team as I think they'll be--which means they're as untalented as we're afraid they are (or, i should say, years away from maturing into what could be a talented team), you're not getting Lebron and another max guy here to take a discount for the chance to play with a sophomore Lonzo and a redshirt junior Ingram. You'll need max money for that. If by the end of the year Lebron barely knows who Ingram is, his best value might be in getting rid of Deng.
Edit: even though i've joked about this, i think it would be really dumb to do this unless Lebron is sitting with a pen in his hand and just waiting for us to add a few more million to his deal. Trading another lottery pick we suffered a whole losing season for just to undo a bad contract--even one time--was, to me, a catastrophe. If we did it again, we'd need to invent a new word for it. |
Meh, as I stated before, what is the value in dumping Deng? If you can get rid of Clarkson and not re-sign Randle, you open room for LeBron and George. That's what they should do. It might be a pain in the ass trading Clarkson for cap room (maybe even a future protected 1st) but it won't require trading BI.
Interestingly, they can then package Ingram+Deng to get a more win now type player (Deng's salary would let them get back ~20M) depending on what Ingram is worth.
But trading Ingram just to dump Deng? Makes no sense. |
IF things continue like this with BI my hope would be we could do that for Klay. But obviously that would take a lot of other low probability circumstances to happen lol |
There's no way they dump Deng and get a productive player - let alone Klay - back just for Ingram. Teams are going to want Brewer or Lopez's expiring contracts to make salaries work in those kinds of deals. |
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tox
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | From Zach Lowe's column today (though i think it's partially in good fun--i.e. we don't need the always useful "He's a Celtic fan/Laker hater" comments)
| Quote: | | Related bonus prediction: Indiana is a near-lock to flip one or both of Bogdanovic and Darren Collison, guaranteed just $3.5 million combined in 2018-19. If the Lakers send Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram to Indy for those deals (and some sweetener), the league should be very afraid L.A. knows a certain someone is in the bag. |
Not that I think this would happen, but if the Lakers are as far from a playoff team as I think they'll be--which means they're as untalented as we're afraid they are (or, i should say, years away from maturing into what could be a talented team), you're not getting Lebron and another max guy here to take a discount for the chance to play with a sophomore Lonzo and a redshirt junior Ingram. You'll need max money for that. If by the end of the year Lebron barely knows who Ingram is, his best value might be in getting rid of Deng.
Edit: even though i've joked about this, i think it would be really dumb to do this unless Lebron is sitting with a pen in his hand and just waiting for us to add a few more million to his deal. Trading another lottery pick we suffered a whole losing season for just to undo a bad contract--even one time--was, to me, a catastrophe. If we did it again, we'd need to invent a new word for it. |
Meh, as I stated before, what is the value in dumping Deng? If you can get rid of Clarkson and not re-sign Randle, you open room for LeBron and George. That's what they should do. It might be a pain in the ass trading Clarkson for cap room (maybe even a future protected 1st) but it won't require trading BI.
Interestingly, they can then package Ingram+Deng to get a more win now type player (Deng's salary would let them get back ~20M) depending on what Ingram is worth.
But trading Ingram just to dump Deng? Makes no sense. |
IF things continue like this with BI my hope would be we could do that for Klay. But obviously that would take a lot of other low probability circumstances to happen lol |
There's no way they dump Deng and get a productive player - let alone Klay - back just for Ingram. Teams are going to want Brewer or Lopez's expiring contracts to make salaries work in those kinds of deals. |
Depends. Let's say Ingram looks decent this season. Next season, would a team not be interested in eating just 2 years of Deng (1 year of which is as an expiring) to acquire Ingram? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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My goodness if the Lakers waste two top 2 picks for salary dumps it’s time to clean house again.
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | 22 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | From Zach Lowe's column today (though i think it's partially in good fun--i.e. we don't need the always useful "He's a Celtic fan/Laker hater" comments)
| Quote: | | Related bonus prediction: Indiana is a near-lock to flip one or both of Bogdanovic and Darren Collison, guaranteed just $3.5 million combined in 2018-19. If the Lakers send Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram to Indy for those deals (and some sweetener), the league should be very afraid L.A. knows a certain someone is in the bag. |
Not that I think this would happen, but if the Lakers are as far from a playoff team as I think they'll be--which means they're as untalented as we're afraid they are (or, i should say, years away from maturing into what could be a talented team), you're not getting Lebron and another max guy here to take a discount for the chance to play with a sophomore Lonzo and a redshirt junior Ingram. You'll need max money for that. If by the end of the year Lebron barely knows who Ingram is, his best value might be in getting rid of Deng.
Edit: even though i've joked about this, i think it would be really dumb to do this unless Lebron is sitting with a pen in his hand and just waiting for us to add a few more million to his deal. Trading another lottery pick we suffered a whole losing season for just to undo a bad contract--even one time--was, to me, a catastrophe. If we did it again, we'd need to invent a new word for it. |
Meh, as I stated before, what is the value in dumping Deng? If you can get rid of Clarkson and not re-sign Randle, you open room for LeBron and George. That's what they should do. It might be a pain in the ass trading Clarkson for cap room (maybe even a future protected 1st) but it won't require trading BI.
Interestingly, they can then package Ingram+Deng to get a more win now type player (Deng's salary would let them get back ~20M) depending on what Ingram is worth.
But trading Ingram just to dump Deng? Makes no sense. |
IF things continue like this with BI my hope would be we could do that for Klay. But obviously that would take a lot of other low probability circumstances to happen lol |
There's no way they dump Deng and get a productive player - let alone Klay - back just for Ingram. Teams are going to want Brewer or Lopez's expiring contracts to make salaries work in those kinds of deals. |
Depends. Let's say Ingram looks decent this season. Next season, would a team not be interested in eating just 2 years of Deng (1 year of which is as an expiring) to acquire Ingram? |
Well, I'm only seeing $60M-ish available next summer if Deng's contract isn't stretched, so Lebron and George would need to take slight paycuts in the first place.
But if they're willing to do that, then I concede there may be teams looking to rebuild next summer that will trade a proven player for Deng's deal in order to build around an improved Ingram. Indiana and the Knicks did worse than that. Cleveland trading Love would seem to be an obvious choice if Lebron leaves. Or maybe New Orleans agrees to a Cousins S&T for Deng, Ingram, and Zu? |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | My goodness if the Lakers waste two top 2 picks for salary dumps it’s time to clean house again. |
2 wasted seasons of tanking to get the #2 pick twice but we end up trading them after 2 seasons just to dump bad contracts. That's all time terrible front office management. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | My goodness if the Lakers waste two top 2 picks for salary dumps it’s time to clean house again. |
yinoma, there's a typo in your sig, FYI - "out" |
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HumanVictoryCigar
Star Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2014
Posts: 7601
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| 22 wrote: | | tox wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | From Zach Lowe's column today (though i think it's partially in good fun--i.e. we don't need the always useful "He's a Celtic fan/Laker hater" comments)
| Quote: | | Related bonus prediction: Indiana is a near-lock to flip one or both of Bogdanovic and Darren Collison, guaranteed just $3.5 million combined in 2018-19. If the Lakers send Luol Deng and Brandon Ingram to Indy for those deals (and some sweetener), the league should be very afraid L.A. knows a certain someone is in the bag. |
Not that I think this would happen, but if the Lakers are as far from a playoff team as I think they'll be--which means they're as untalented as we're afraid they are (or, i should say, years away from maturing into what could be a talented team), you're not getting Lebron and another max guy here to take a discount for the chance to play with a sophomore Lonzo and a redshirt junior Ingram. You'll need max money for that. If by the end of the year Lebron barely knows who Ingram is, his best value might be in getting rid of Deng.
Edit: even though i've joked about this, i think it would be really dumb to do this unless Lebron is sitting with a pen in his hand and just waiting for us to add a few more million to his deal. Trading another lottery pick we suffered a whole losing season for just to undo a bad contract--even one time--was, to me, a catastrophe. If we did it again, we'd need to invent a new word for it. |
Meh, as I stated before, what is the value in dumping Deng? If you can get rid of Clarkson and not re-sign Randle, you open room for LeBron and George. That's what they should do. It might be a pain in the ass trading Clarkson for cap room (maybe even a future protected 1st) but it won't require trading BI.
Interestingly, they can then package Ingram+Deng to get a more win now type player (Deng's salary would let them get back ~20M) depending on what Ingram is worth.
But trading Ingram just to dump Deng? Makes no sense. |
IF things continue like this with BI my hope would be we could do that for Klay. But obviously that would take a lot of other low probability circumstances to happen lol |
wow, frankly for Klay, GS could have anything or anybody they want besides Lonzo and Kuz and we could build around that but... I don't think we have enough of anything to offer GS  |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Hoping BI doesn't fuel the fire with another bad game tonight. I really want the kid to succeed, but it's on him to make better decisions out there on the court especially if his shot isn't falling. |
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panamaniac
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Joined: 28 May 2011
Posts: 11238
Location: PTY
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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| We need to hire a shooting coach ASAP. |
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Megaton
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Megaton wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | We need to hire a shooting coach ASAP. |
Ingram needed and should have worked with Kobe all summer like he said he would.
He failed to take that initiative and these are the results of it. |
That was probably just lip service. Kobe is enjoying his retirement. |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| IBWriter wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | Haters haters and more haters.. |
Nah. I see a few haters, but way more who simply recognize that the kid is not ready for what Magic wants him to do this year. If he's developed the right way, (like how Kawhi was, for example) he could be real good in a few years. |
If they did recognize he isn't ready for what Magic wants him to do this year and it's about whether he's developed the right way as you say, shouldn't most of the criticism be put on Magic/coaching staff and not so overwhelmingly on Ingram? |
I don't know about others, but that's exactly where I've been targeting my criticism: on Magic and the FO, not on BI.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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MJST
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Posts: 26288
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Practice wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | We need to hire a shooting coach ASAP. |
Ingram needed and should have worked with Kobe all summer like he said he would.
He failed to take that initiative and these are the results of it. |
That was probably just lip service. Kobe is enjoying his retirement. |
Kobe is there to help any of the kids if they asked. Buddy Hield works with Kobe. Gordon Hayward worked with Kobe. So did Russell Westbrook.
So there's no reason Ingram couldn't have.
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How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk |
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RCS926
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
Posts: 16824
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | IBWriter wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: | | mookielala wrote: | | Haters haters and more haters.. |
Nah. I see a few haters, but way more who simply recognize that the kid is not ready for what Magic wants him to do this year. If he's developed the right way, (like how Kawhi was, for example) he could be real good in a few years. |
If they did recognize he isn't ready for what Magic wants him to do this year and it's about whether he's developed the right way as you say, shouldn't most of the criticism be put on Magic/coaching staff and not so overwhelmingly on Ingram? |
I don't know about others, but that's exactly where I've been targeting my criticism: on Magic and the FO, not on BI. |
Yeah, I'm OK with BI not being ready for prime time. It's up to the coaching staff and FO to not force BI into a role that he's clearly not ready for. |
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17876
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
There's no way they dump Deng and get a productive player - let alone Klay - back just for Ingram. Teams are going to want Brewer or Lopez's expiring contracts to make salaries work in those kinds of deals. |
Depends. Let's say Ingram looks decent this season. Next season, would a team not be interested in eating just 2 years of Deng (1 year of which is as an expiring) to acquire Ingram? |
Well, I'm only seeing $60M-ish available next summer if Deng's contract isn't stretched, so Lebron and George would need to take slight paycuts in the first place.
But if they're willing to do that, then I concede there may be teams looking to rebuild next summer that will trade a proven player for Deng's deal in order to build around an improved Ingram. Indiana and the Knicks did worse than that. Cleveland trading Love would seem to be an obvious choice if Lebron leaves. Or maybe New Orleans agrees to a Cousins S&T for Deng, Ingram, and Zu? |
Good point, I forgot about needing to stretch Deng. Me being dumb. I'm not even going to pretend like LBJ and PG taking paycuts is a possibility. |
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29047
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| Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | tox wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
There's no way they dump Deng and get a productive player - let alone Klay - back just for Ingram. Teams are going to want Brewer or Lopez's expiring contracts to make salaries work in those kinds of deals. |
Depends. Let's say Ingram looks decent this season. Next season, would a team not be interested in eating just 2 years of Deng (1 year of which is as an expiring) to acquire Ingram? |
Well, I'm only seeing $60M-ish available next summer if Deng's contract isn't stretched, so Lebron and George would need to take slight paycuts in the first place.
But if they're willing to do that, then I concede there may be teams looking to rebuild next summer that will trade a proven player for Deng's deal in order to build around an improved Ingram. Indiana and the Knicks did worse than that. Cleveland trading Love would seem to be an obvious choice if Lebron leaves. Or maybe New Orleans agrees to a Cousins S&T for Deng, Ingram, and Zu? |
Good point, I forgot about needing to stretch Deng. Me being dumb. I'm not even going to pretend like LBJ and PG taking paycuts is a possibility. |
Especially when they'd be making the most profitable/valuable franchise in the NBA even more so. |
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