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GoldenThroat
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 Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: |
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You guys know how big I am on shooting and how skeptical I was on Ingram's shooting when we were being told otherwise, but he's found something that he can do dependably well, which makes his first 20 games a success. He's able to get to the basket whenever the opportunity presents itself, and has improved at his ability to get left while doing that.
There was a massive chasm between what he was and what people wanted him to be, but in terms of making progress relative to where he actually was, he's done well this season. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:48 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | You guys know how big I am on shooting and how skeptical I was on Ingram's shooting when we were being told otherwise, but he's found something that he can do dependably well, which makes his first 20 games a success. He's able to get to the basket whenever the opportunity presents itself, and has improved at his ability to get left while doing that.
There was a massive chasm between what he was and what people wanted him to be, but in terms of making progress relative to where he actually was, he's done well this season. |
Can he be an efficient player just driving when the defense is sloppy? He's not at all right now. |
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pmacla
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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If for some reason Boogie is available at the trade deadline would you trade Ingram and Lopez for Cousins ?
Last edited by pmacla on Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Yep, you have to love BI's improvements.
But it hurts when your SF can't shoot/make 3s at a consistent clip.
Are there many playoff teams with a SF who doesn't? |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:51 am Post subject: |
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| pmacla wrote: | | If for some reason Boogie is available at the trade deadline would you trade Ingram and Lopez for Cousins ? |
I'm starting to lean that way.
But of course when BI starts hitting his jumpers post all-star break, I'll change my mind again  |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | You guys know how big I am on shooting and how skeptical I was on Ingram's shooting when we were being told otherwise, but he's found something that he can do dependably well, which makes his first 20 games a success. He's able to get to the basket whenever the opportunity presents itself, and has improved at his ability to get left while doing that.
There was a massive chasm between what he was and what people wanted him to be, but in terms of making progress relative to where he actually was, he's done well this season. |
Can he be an efficient player just driving when the defense is sloppy? He's not at all right now. |
No, he can't. I'm just saying that he's found something that's relatively dependable about his game, which is more than can be said about him at any other point. I think that's notable. Of course he still has a long way to go. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| But then we'll be annoyed when he comes here and Ingram can't play off of him. If he's a FA this season, why not keep BI and potentially get Boogie. Why trade Ingram and run the risk of Boogie leaving? |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | If for some reason Boogie is available at the trade deadline would you trade Ingram and Lopez for Cousins ? |
I'm starting to lean that way.
But of course when BI starts hitting his jumpers post all-star break, I'll change my mind again |
Why would we trade Ingram for a guy who we could sign outright in a couple of months? Or worse yet...one that could walk in a couple of months. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | But then we'll be annoyed when he comes here and Ingram can't play off of him. If he's a FA this season, why not keep BI and potentially get Boogie. Why trade Ingram and run the risk of Boogie leaving? |
You are my spirit animal. |
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pmacla
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | epak wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | If for some reason Boogie is available at the trade deadline would you trade Ingram and Lopez for Cousins ? |
I'm starting to lean that way.
But of course when BI starts hitting his jumpers post all-star break, I'll change my mind again |
Why would we trade Ingram for a guy who we could sign outright in a couple of months? Or worse yet...one that could walk in a couple of months. |
bird rights |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| pmacla wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | epak wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | If for some reason Boogie is available at the trade deadline would you trade Ingram and Lopez for Cousins ? |
I'm starting to lean that way.
But of course when BI starts hitting his jumpers post all-star break, I'll change my mind again |
Why would we trade Ingram for a guy who we could sign outright in a couple of months? Or worse yet...one that could walk in a couple of months. |
bird rights |
Bird Rights seem like a very meager return for Brandon Ingram, and that's coming from someone who isn't exactly his Hype Man. |
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epak
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | epak wrote: | | pmacla wrote: | | If for some reason Boogie is available at the trade deadline would you trade Ingram and Lopez for Cousins ? |
I'm starting to lean that way.
But of course when BI starts hitting his jumpers post all-star break, I'll change my mind again |
Why would we trade Ingram for a guy who we could sign outright in a couple of months? Or worse yet...one that could walk in a couple of months. |
bird rights |
Bird Rights seem like a very meager return for Brandon Ingram, and that's coming from someone who isn't exactly his Hype Man. |
Yep. $12M saved in bird rights vs BI seems like a no contest (BI wins).
However, I'm beginning to think our offense just stalls when BI is there. IMO he seems to survey his options after he catches the ball instead of doing that before he gets the ball.
Too much to expect in year 2? Probably. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | But then we'll be annoyed when he comes here and Ingram can't play off of him. If he's a FA this season, why not keep BI and potentially get Boogie. Why trade Ingram and run the risk of Boogie leaving? |
You are my spirit animal. |
If I am your spirit animal, then I am definitely Dennis from It's Always Sunny, screaming into the void |
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | You guys know how big I am on shooting and how skeptical I was on Ingram's shooting when we were being told otherwise, but he's found something that he can do dependably well, which makes his first 20 games a success. He's able to get to the basket whenever the opportunity presents itself, and has improved at his ability to get left while doing that.
There was a massive chasm between what he was and what people wanted him to be, but in terms of making progress relative to where he actually was, he's done well this season. |
He looks like he's made steady progress as a player since last season which for a kid that raw is all you can really expect.
Never liked nor understood the KD stuff but I also never thought that highly of BI. 1.25 years into his career, I can see that at worst we get a Batum like player which I guess is not terrible-- so I, like you (I think you'd agree) have found Brandon to be a somewhat pleasant surprise. I mean, it's no 20ppg but hey, that would have been unprecedented improvement. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:09 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | Yep. $12M saved in bird rights vs BI seems like a no contest (BI wins).
However, I'm beginning to think our offense just stalls when BI is there. IMO he seems to survey his options after he catches the ball instead of doing that before he gets the ball.
Too much to expect in year 2? Probably. |
Relative to where he was last year? It is. He's progressed as well as I could have hoped, at least. What we're seeing with him is fairly close to what I saw as the best case scenario for him this year. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| 2019 wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | You guys know how big I am on shooting and how skeptical I was on Ingram's shooting when we were being told otherwise, but he's found something that he can do dependably well, which makes his first 20 games a success. He's able to get to the basket whenever the opportunity presents itself, and has improved at his ability to get left while doing that.
There was a massive chasm between what he was and what people wanted him to be, but in terms of making progress relative to where he actually was, he's done well this season. |
He looks like he's made steady progress as a player since last season which for a kid that raw is all you can really expect.
Never liked nor understood the KD stuff but I also never thought that highly of BI. 1.25 years into his career, I can see that at worst we get a Batum like player which I guess is not terrible-- so I, like you (I think you'd agree) have found Brandon to be a somewhat pleasant surprise. I mean, it's no 20ppg but hey, that would have been unprecedented improvement. |
I wouldn't say he's been a surprise, but he's been close to the top end of my expectations for him this year, even if those were much lower than other people had. He's tangibly improved at a few things, most of which involve driving to the basket, and he's made smaller steps as a rebounder & passer. He's making fewer mistakes on the defensive end as well, and occasionally utilizes his length well there.
I think he's going to be a solid NBA player, which I wasn't entirely sure of when the season began. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| The only thing that I've been disappointed by - in that I had higher expectations than he's been able to achieve - is his free throw shooting. I haven't really studied his form during the season, but I loved how it looked in Summer League and even early in the preseason. I thought he'd be around 75% this year. |
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LakersNewEra
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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I would expect his shooting in general, not just FT's to improve next season He's a star IMO. Not yet but next year I can definitely see it.
Thinkshe will be inconsistent but a 20 ppg scorer next year.
Along with good defense and playmaking, will be a heck of a player.
Last edited by LakersNewEra on Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: |
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| LakersNewEra wrote: | I would expect his shooting in general, not just FT's to improve next season He's a star IMO. Not yet but next year I can definitely see it.
Thinks he will be inconsistent but a 20 ppg scorer next year.
Along with good defense and playmaking, will be a heck of a player. |
He's scored 20+ points just 3 times in 20 games while getting 33.3mpg and being the primary perimeter option next to KCP & Lonzo. Him scoring 20ppg next year would be stunning. |
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AFireInside619
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | AirKobe8 wrote: | Guys like Giannis and Simmons are showing you don't really need to be a shooter to dominate in today's NBA.
I'm not saying Ingram will end up like either one, but I think his priority should be staying agressive and imposing his wingspan and size into people.
If you turn him into a jump shooter, you are throwing away his size and his ball IQ, which is what made him a #2 pick. |
Two guys and they are both unreal athletes with incredible measurables. Yes, BI is long, but both of those guys are long and explosive. I say this as a big BI fan. He will need a shot to dominate in this league. Otherwise, we're looking at an 18/5/3 Batum-esque guy tops. Which is fine, but I expect (and think we will receive) more. |
One word 3 letters. HGH.
At first I was kidding, but thinking back to Greek's NBA before and after pics, maybe I'm not. 😂 Rookie Greek is a totally different person than today's Greek, physique-wise. |
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mookielala
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| There will likely be some dips and bad patches this season, but I think he will be a better scorer by the end of the year. I'm sure he's working on the free throws. He seems to have that kind of mentality. |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:40 am Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | AirKobe8 wrote: | Guys like Giannis and Simmons are showing you don't really need to be a shooter to dominate in today's NBA.
I'm not saying Ingram will end up like either one, but I think his priority should be staying agressive and imposing his wingspan and size into people.
If you turn him into a jump shooter, you are throwing away his size and his ball IQ, which is what made him a #2 pick. |
Two guys and they are both unreal athletes with incredible measurables. Yes, BI is long, but both of those guys are long and explosive. I say this as a big BI fan. He will need a shot to dominate in this league. Otherwise, we're looking at an 18/5/3 Batum-esque guy tops. Which is fine, but I expect (and think we will receive) more. |
One word 3 letters. HGH.
At first I was kidding, but thinking back to Greek's NBA before and after pics, maybe I'm not. 😂 Rookie Greek is a totally different person than today's Greek, physique-wise. |
The NBA has always gotten by as a league based on "talent" and "skill." The athletes are generally lithe, svelte -- cut, sure, but rarely bulky. HGH, steroids --- scandals far from most NBA fans minds. Then you look at D-Wade, LeBron, Giannis . . . you read that report about that shady clinic shut down in Miami, with connections to NBA players, including the aforementioned Jaw and King . . .
Like you, I kid, but not as much as I'd like |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: |
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When I say that I think he can be a DRoz/Batum type hybrid, it's not an insult. That kind of player would be valuable in the NBA. I don't see a KD/Giannis superstar type player, but he is only 20.
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:46 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | When I say that I think he can be a DRoz/Batum type hybrid, it's not an insult. That kind of player would be valuable in the NBA. I don't see a KD/Giannis superstar type player, but he is only 20. |
I didn't mean it as one either. I'd be lying if I didn't have higher hopes for him, but Batum is a fine player.
I'm also starting to see some Wiggins. Lot of driving, whatever jumper. Empty volume scoring, good body for defense yet underwhelming on that end. Wiggins, however, is just flat out better at most things BI does, particularly when you take into account age-comparables. There's enough differences that I don't project anything onto BI, but I can't help but think there's *something* there |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Cutheon wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | When I say that I think he can be a DRoz/Batum type hybrid, it's not an insult. That kind of player would be valuable in the NBA. I don't see a KD/Giannis superstar type player, but he is only 20. |
I didn't mean it as one either. I'd be lying if I didn't have higher hopes for him, but Batum is a fine player.
I'm also starting to see some Wiggins. Lot of driving, whatever jumper. Empty volume scoring, good body for defense yet underwhelming on that end. Wiggins, however, is just flat out better at most things BI does, particularly when you take into account age-comparables. There's enough differences that I don't project anything onto BI, but I can't help but think there's *something* there |
Wiggins, interesting. And Wiggins has put on a lot of muscle and is now physically overpowering people.
I can see a developmental path where he goes more DRoz/Wiggins than Giannis or Batum.
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