OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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defense
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Per 36:

Year 1: 11.7 pts, 5 rebs, 2.6 asst, 40% fg, 29% 3pt, 62% ft
Year 2: 17.1 pts, 5.8 rebs, 3.1 asst, 46% fg, 30% 3pt, 68% ft

That's pretty good. The thing that I thought would push him over to the Magic Johnson expectation was an increase in ftr. He's at .405 (5.6 fta per 36) compared to .312 (3.4 fta per 36) last year.

Just as a barometer, James Harden has a ftr of .43 this year; has been over .500 the last 7 years. I think the league cracking down on BS foul calls at the 3 point line is dropping his attempts.

To be clear, Harden's FTR is still way more impressive than Ingram's. 50% of Ingram's FGA are within 5 feet, where most FTs are drawn. Harden is at 29.5%. That means that when Harden does drive, he's getting fouled at much higher rates than when Ingram does drive. In other words, Harden's FTR is deflated because he shoots so many 3s where he doesn't get fouled much (especially post-rule change), and yet it's still higher than BI's.

(You do get fouled outside of 5 feet as well so it's a little bit murkier than what I stated above, but by and large it's true.)

This isn't a diss on Ingram btw. Harden is unreal at getting to the line.


Is "unreal" code for flopper?
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:45 pm    Post subject:

defense wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Per 36:

Year 1: 11.7 pts, 5 rebs, 2.6 asst, 40% fg, 29% 3pt, 62% ft
Year 2: 17.1 pts, 5.8 rebs, 3.1 asst, 46% fg, 30% 3pt, 68% ft

That's pretty good. The thing that I thought would push him over to the Magic Johnson expectation was an increase in ftr. He's at .405 (5.6 fta per 36) compared to .312 (3.4 fta per 36) last year.

Just as a barometer, James Harden has a ftr of .43 this year; has been over .500 the last 7 years. I think the league cracking down on BS foul calls at the 3 point line is dropping his attempts.

To be clear, Harden's FTR is still way more impressive than Ingram's. 50% of Ingram's FGA are within 5 feet, where most FTs are drawn. Harden is at 29.5%. That means that when Harden does drive, he's getting fouled at much higher rates than when Ingram does drive. In other words, Harden's FTR is deflated because he shoots so many 3s where he doesn't get fouled much (especially post-rule change), and yet it's still higher than BI's.

(You do get fouled outside of 5 feet as well so it's a little bit murkier than what I stated above, but by and large it's true.)

This isn't a diss on Ingram btw. Harden is unreal at getting to the line.


Is "unreal" code for flopper?

lol. Whatever you want to call it, his ability to get to the line is unparalleled. Not saying I like watching his game because of it.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:53 pm    Post subject:

dao wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
12 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Here are the Net Ratings of Ingram's 2-Man Lineups

Ingram + Caruso..........+39.5 (2 minutes)
Ingram + Ennis............+32.4 (16 minutes)
Ingram + Lopez..............-0.8 (491 minutes)
Ingram + KCP.................-4.1 (603 minutes)
Ingram + Randle.............-4.3 (232 minutes)
Ingram + Ball.................-5.2 (616 minutes)
Ingram + Clarkson..........-6.9 (231 minutes)
Ingram + Kuzma.............-7.6 (420 minutes)
Ingram + Bogut..............-8.1 (46 minutes)
Ingram + Nance..............-9.2 (269 minutes)
Ingram + Brewer...........-13.8 (80 minutes)
Ingram + Hart..............-15.2 (65 minutes)
Ingram + Deng.............-26.8 (13 minutes)
Ingram + Zubac............-55.5 (5 minutes)
Ingram + Blue.............-143.4 (2 minutes)


Would you please be so kind and put this in English?
I'm not the sharpest crayon when it comes to +/-
I mean, I know the obvious. But I'm sure there's a lot more to this than meets the eye.


1) This is how well the team plays when Ingram is on the court with other guys, per 100 possessions. The average Laker game has about 103 possessions in it, so this is roughly how much they outscore the other team over the course of a game when Ingram + the other guy is on the court.

2) Above all else, these sort of stats have a lot of noise in them, meaning that it's unwise to draw definitive conclusions. I consider them clues, not a smoking gun.

3) The biggest thing that stands out to me is that of the guys who get minutes, the team plays the best when Ingram & Lopez are paired together. This makes sense to me. They've had nice chemistry in pick & pops, and for as inconsistent as he's been, Lopez provides a scoring threat down low.

4) I'm surprised that his numbers w/Kuzma haven't been good, for similar reasons of having a second scorer next to him. My best guess is that Kuzma really thrives on ball movement, and ball movement reduces when Ingram's on the court.


Lonzo-Pope-Ingram-Kuzma-Lopez has a 217 minute sample size (largest of any lineup) and a -2.8 net rating. For an 8-15 team that gets outscored by around 4 points per game, -2.8 net rating should be about what you expect.

The 2nd largest sample size in lineups that include Ingram and Kuzma is the Lonzo-Pope-Ingram-Kuzma-Randle lineup, which of course has a great net rating, though on a small sample size of 52 minutes.

When you throw Clarkson at PG, the Ingram/Kuzma numbers start to get ugly, with various lineups with tiny sample sizes.

Ingram and Kuzma seem to play just fine together imo. 2 man lineup data in a 5 man sport makes oversimplification very easy to do.


And all of that factors into the overall number, which means that other lineups with them have been really, really bad. That doesn't mean they can't play together, or that there aren't other factors that have caused them to be bad, but they've been bad in totality.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject:

(bleep) dominating!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
defense wrote:
tox wrote:
epak wrote:
Per 36:

Year 1: 11.7 pts, 5 rebs, 2.6 asst, 40% fg, 29% 3pt, 62% ft
Year 2: 17.1 pts, 5.8 rebs, 3.1 asst, 46% fg, 30% 3pt, 68% ft

That's pretty good. The thing that I thought would push him over to the Magic Johnson expectation was an increase in ftr. He's at .405 (5.6 fta per 36) compared to .312 (3.4 fta per 36) last year.

Just as a barometer, James Harden has a ftr of .43 this year; has been over .500 the last 7 years. I think the league cracking down on BS foul calls at the 3 point line is dropping his attempts.

To be clear, Harden's FTR is still way more impressive than Ingram's. 50% of Ingram's FGA are within 5 feet, where most FTs are drawn. Harden is at 29.5%. That means that when Harden does drive, he's getting fouled at much higher rates than when Ingram does drive. In other words, Harden's FTR is deflated because he shoots so many 3s where he doesn't get fouled much (especially post-rule change), and yet it's still higher than BI's.

(You do get fouled outside of 5 feet as well so it's a little bit murkier than what I stated above, but by and large it's true.)

This isn't a diss on Ingram btw. Harden is unreal at getting to the line.


Is "unreal" code for flopper?

lol. Whatever you want to call it, his ability to get to the line is unparalleled. Not saying I like watching his game because of it.


For a 20 year old and second year player being mentioned with who I thought should’ve been MVP last season and most likely to be MVP this year is very impressive. Right now what’s most important is Ingram and Lonzo’s individual improvements and monthly splits which I will post up when we have a bit more sample size as I did last season for BI. Being at least average players which they aren’t right now is what’s most important, and it’s on the coaching staff to develop them into that while showing our FA targets how they fit into the puzzle. RPM, BPM, PER etc will start to matter more in two years when they reach Kuzma’s age.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:41 pm    Post subject:

He's ball-stopping a bit, but overall he's playing better than his stat line indicates, even after that hot 1st quarter.
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:46 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
He's ball-stopping a bit, but overall he's playing better than his stat line indicates, even after that hot 1st quarter.


Would look much better if he didn't miss 4 FTs sigh
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject:

It's time he start working on counters while driving..
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
It's time he start working on counters while driving..


For now, that's kicking it out on more of his drives. Hopefully in the future it's a pull-up jumper.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
It's time he start working on counters while driving..


For now, that's kicking it out on more of his drives. Hopefully in the future it's a pull-up jumper.


His hesitation move allows for a very natural pull-up off of it. Kobe used to do it off that hesitation all the time, Ingram even did a couple times last year. It'd be a great kind of counter for him
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:17 pm    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhpCIgIm45k in fact, he did do it right here. It's the same footwork as the hesitation, the 1-2step, aka the "hang hesitation" where you can pull-up on the hang, or you can burst/drive.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
It's time he start working on counters while driving..


For now, that's kicking it out on more of his drives. Hopefully in the future it's a pull-up jumper.


Agreed.. Teams seem to have trouble adjusting initially but they eventually do a better job of guarding him after the first quarter.

Might see his production come to a halt if he doesn't work on those adjustments now.
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SocalDevin
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
It's time he start working on counters while driving..


For now, that's kicking it out on more of his drives. Hopefully in the future it's a pull-up jumper.


His hesitation move allows for a very natural pull-up off of it. Kobe used to do it off that hesitation all the time, Ingram even did a couple times last year. It'd be a great kind of counter for him


That works too.. he doesn't seem to have the same amount of confidence in his mid range J.. I guess he's still adjusting to the change in form.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject:

ONIONS!!! making me a believer!
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:41 pm    Post subject:

Nice shot BI!
Made up for that 2nd half
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject:

What a shot!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject:

Welcome to the future. Kid is a stud.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:42 pm    Post subject:

MoneyGram tonight
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
He's ball-stopping a bit, but overall he's playing better than his stat line indicates, even after that hot 1st quarter.

Them Kobe assists lol
Speaking of Kobe, 7-21 but hit the game winning 3. Add 7 rebounds and 6 assists. Feels familiar (except that 5-10 FT shooting)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

I heard him say "Kobe!" as he shot it.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

6 assists 7 boards..

I don't have any stats on it but does anyone know how successful they are running screen and roll action with Ingram and Randle.. It worked really well on two possessions.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:43 pm    Post subject:

ASFOAISONFIANSFLKASNFLAKSFJLAKSJFLAISKJ!!!!!!!!!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
I heard him say "Kobe!" as he shot it.


Lol
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject:

SLIM SLEEPY EYE ASSASSIN
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject:

THE KID

He's got it Y'all. He's got it. Gonna be fun watching him grow.
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