OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD!!
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject:

I believe not involving Ingram on offense down the stretch cost us the game
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject:

His possessions used in the last 4 games vs. the other 47.




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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:26 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
His possessions used in the last 4 games vs. the other 47.

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T73SEJSAF-F98DTJAEB/screen_shot_2018-02-11_at_3.25.47_pm.png

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/T73SEJSAF-F97FQ9HFF/screen_shot_2018-02-11_at_3.26.43_pm.png


Graphics aren't showing for me...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:28 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.

I get your point GT and want to see more catch and shoot from him, but a naive observation is that guys like Kobe, MJ, Droz, and many other wings made careers out of perfecting their mid-range game, so it's not like that shot is dead. I understand why its less efficient than any other shot but its important to have a counter to them cutting off the drive which he struggled with badly to open the year.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:34 pm    Post subject:

OT, but Tatum doesn't look nearly as impressive anymore as he was hyped by the east coast-biased media to be. I prefer BI in the short and long term.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.

I get your point GT and want to see more catch and shoot from him, but a naive observation is that guys like Kobe, MJ, Droz, and many other wings made careers out of perfecting their mid-range game, so it's not like that shot is dead. I understand why its less efficient than any other shot but its important to have a counter to them cutting off the drive which he struggled with badly to open the year.

Ingram isn't hitting it like those guys can/could though.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
trablos wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.

I get your point GT and want to see more catch and shoot from him, but a naive observation is that guys like Kobe, MJ, Droz, and many other wings made careers out of perfecting their mid-range game, so it's not like that shot is dead. I understand why its less efficient than any other shot but its important to have a counter to them cutting off the drive which he struggled with badly to open the year.

Ingram isn't hitting it like those guys can/could though.

I know but I just wanted to make a point about the usefulness of the mid range game. Its obvious he likes that shot and he has a lot of potential there and would be a nightmare for defenses having to guard a guy who can kill you from anywhere on the floor.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:51 pm    Post subject:

I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:53 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.

Yeah this is fair. The best scorers in the league still have it in their arsenal, but it shouldn't be your "goto" shot IMO. Of course the most important thing is making the right decisions/reads every possession so maybe if someone else has an open three the ball should start swinging.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:54 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
Practice wrote:
trablos wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.

I get your point GT and want to see more catch and shoot from him, but a naive observation is that guys like Kobe, MJ, Droz, and many other wings made careers out of perfecting their mid-range game, so it's not like that shot is dead. I understand why its less efficient than any other shot but its important to have a counter to them cutting off the drive which he struggled with badly to open the year.

Ingram isn't hitting it like those guys can/could though.

I know but I just wanted to make a point about the usefulness of the mid range game. Its obvious he likes that shot and he has a lot of potential there and would be a nightmare for defenses having to guard a guy who can kill you from anywhere on the floor.


Yeah no one disregards the misrange game.

But at the same time the entire point is that Ingram should be maximizing what he does best right now, and working on the mid range in a secondary sense to come along as his shot continues to improve.

Instead of going 20% spot ups, 30% mid range 50% drive to the basket.

He should be doing 40% spot ups 50% driving to the basket and maybe 10% mid range.

That doesn't mean his mid range won't improve, but it means that he'll be maximizing what he does best, while his mid range slowly but surely improves, but at the same time he'll be doing what he's been doing.

No one's saying he shouldn't develop his mid range. What's being said is that he should be utilizing his spot ups and his drives at a much higher percentage as priority over the mid range game.


Look at Steph Curry, he shoots about 55-60% from mid range, but look at how often he either gets to the basket or shoots a three in comparison.

It means that Steph has a go to mid range shot when the defense gives him in which again increases his efficiency, but that doesn't mean he seeks it, he just has it 'just in case' the defense gives that opening. But the majority of the time he's going to the basket or he's shooting threes.

So yes, Ingram having an efficient mid range shot will open up more things and opportunities for him, however he shouldn't prioritize it in games over his drives or spot ups which have been much more efficient.

If he gets to the point where his mid range is efficient, GREAT that means it will be there when the defense gives that opening, but he should still prioritize his drives an spot ups, even in that scenario as well.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:58 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.

Yeah this is fair. The best scorers in the league still have it in their arsenal, but it shouldn't be your "goto" shot IMO. Of course the most important thing is making the right decisions/reads every possession so maybe if someone else has an open three the ball should start swinging.


Yea making the right reads is key, and making them almost instantly.. which he's starting to do with more frequency.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:00 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
trablos wrote:
Practice wrote:
trablos wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.

I get your point GT and want to see more catch and shoot from him, but a naive observation is that guys like Kobe, MJ, Droz, and many other wings made careers out of perfecting their mid-range game, so it's not like that shot is dead. I understand why its less efficient than any other shot but its important to have a counter to them cutting off the drive which he struggled with badly to open the year.

Ingram isn't hitting it like those guys can/could though.

I know but I just wanted to make a point about the usefulness of the mid range game. Its obvious he likes that shot and he has a lot of potential there and would be a nightmare for defenses having to guard a guy who can kill you from anywhere on the floor.


Yeah no one disregards the misrange game.

But at the same time the entire point is that Ingram should be maximizing what he does best right now, and working on the mid range in a secondary sense to come along as his shot continues to improve.

Instead of going 20% spot ups, 30% mid range 50% drive to the basket.

He should be doing 40% spot ups 50% driving to the basket and maybe 10% mid range.

That doesn't mean his mid range won't improve, but it means that he'll be maximizing what he does best, while his mid range slowly but surely improves, but at the same time he'll be doing what he's been doing.

No one's saying he shouldn't develop his mid range. What's being said is that he should be utilizing his spot ups and his drives at a much higher percentage as priority over the mid range game.


Look at Steph Curry, he shoots about 55-60% from mid range, but look at how often he either gets to the basket or shoots a three in comparison.

It means that Steph has a go to mid range shot when the defense gives him in which again increases his efficiency, but that doesn't mean he seeks it, he just has it 'just in case' the defense gives that opening. But the majority of the time he's going to the basket or he's shooting threes.

So yes, Ingram having an efficient mid range shot will open up more things and opportunities for him, however he shouldn't prioritize it in games over his drives or spot ups which have been much more efficient.

If he gets to the point where his mid range is efficient, GREAT that means it will be there when the defense gives that opening, but he should still prioritize his drives an spot ups, even in that scenario as well.

Agree completely. Its a matter of taking what the D gives you that determines your shot selection.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:03 pm    Post subject:

Defenses want to give you poor % shots. When teams leave BroLo open at the 3 pt line, there is a reason for it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:33 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Defenses want to give you poor % shots. When teams leave BroLo open at the 3 pt line, there is a reason for it.

It's not just about % though, it's about PPP. BroLo outside the line is lower percentage shot, as in, the ball will go through the hoop less often, but it will score more points in the long run than certain higher percentage shots inside the line.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:56 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.


The biggest thing that the best players have in this league over Ingram is having continuity in the core team they play in. We did it in phases, but the team from last year is gone. The team, mind you. The day Zo was drafted, Ingram had to be redefined. And now we got him at the position Freak plays. And itís working. Even in the Dallas game, when he pushed the pace at the end there... we came back and led momentarily.

BI is a smart player, and humble af. If heís learned anything from LNJ, itís to make your teammates job easier if you have the ability to do so. I think this is what makes Zo special as well. Give both of them time to get ITs game. If anything else, itís a study session for our young core. We are a player in FA for the next 3 summers. Our youth needs to learn flexibility isnít just a term for our FO to work with numbers... itís a mindset they need to actualize for the next 3 years. Learn your teammates... learn every single one of your teammates. They are your bread and butter to eat in this world.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:41 pm    Post subject:

ÄH£M£$TR• wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.


The biggest thing that the best players have in this league over Ingram is having continuity in the core team they play in. We did it in phases, but the team from last year is gone. The team, mind you. The day Zo was drafted, Ingram had to be redefined. And now we got him at the position Freak plays. And itís working. Even in the Dallas game, when he pushed the pace at the end there... we came back and led momentarily.

BI is a smart player, and humble af. If heís learned anything from LNJ, itís to make your teammates job easier if you have the ability to do so. I think this is what makes Zo special as well. Give both of them time to get ITs game. If anything else, itís a study session for our young core. We are a player in FA for the next 3 summers. Our youth needs to learn flexibility isnít just a term for our FO to work with numbers... itís a mindset they need to actualize for the next 3 years. Learn your teammates... learn every single one of your teammates. They are your bread and butter to eat in this world.




If nothing else, maybe playing with IT will force Ingram into not shrinking when he's not the focal point of the offense. Which he does from time to time. And isn't entirely his fault, but he does bear some of the blame for it.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 4:51 pm    Post subject:

I like that fact that IT would carry Ingram's load. I think the kid is doing too much right now. Let him focus at growing into an elite SF.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
Practice wrote:
trablos wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.

I get your point GT and want to see more catch and shoot from him, but a naive observation is that guys like Kobe, MJ, Droz, and many other wings made careers out of perfecting their mid-range game, so it's not like that shot is dead. I understand why its less efficient than any other shot but its important to have a counter to them cutting off the drive which he struggled with badly to open the year.

Ingram isn't hitting it like those guys can/could though.

I know but I just wanted to make a point about the usefulness of the mid range game. Its obvious he likes that shot and he has a lot of potential there and would be a nightmare for defenses having to guard a guy who can kill you from anywhere on the floor.


To be fair, GT's respond was to a guy saying BI needs to make mid range pull ups as his bread & butter
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:31 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
dao wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.
he took a couple heat check mid range jumpers last night, after having success with the higher efficiency shots. I'm like damn man, if you want to heat check, give us a reckless drive to the rim or a pull up three. I love Kobe but this is the age of analytics lol. That mid range sheet is an eye sore. Luckily he's growing out of it.


From your lips to God's ears. I'd rather see him pull up from 30 than from 20.


He added 6ppg to his average in year number 2 how realistic is to expect at least another 5 next season?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Look at this catch & shoot corner 3 with zero hesitation. It's so beautiful.

https://media.giphy.com/media/26DNkPhVGxmYJP4Os/giphy.gif



It is beautiful...

GT...What would Chick (Golden throat) say about that shot?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 6:48 pm    Post subject:

Car54 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
dao wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.
he took a couple heat check mid range jumpers last night, after having success with the higher efficiency shots. I'm like damn man, if you want to heat check, give us a reckless drive to the rim or a pull up three. I love Kobe but this is the age of analytics lol. That mid range sheet is an eye sore. Luckily he's growing out of it.


From your lips to God's ears. I'd rather see him pull up from 30 than from 20.


He added 6ppg to his average in year number 2 how realistic is to expect at least another 5 next season?



I think he "potentially" can be a 21/22 a game player next season, and if given some time as a play maker get 5+ assists per game. I also think his boards can get over 6 a game by next season. Shooting at or near 50% and 3point shooting over 40% on at least 4 attempts per game. I think this is also just the beginning, those numbers will rise, as he will only be 21 next season, fasten your seat belts for when he gets to 22 and beyond...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:24 pm    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
Car54 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
dao wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
CRoost wrote:
Lol the average players donít have his length. If he can develop physically like Lebron or Giannis then he can keep going at the rim. I ainít worried if the stats says itís not an efficient shot, Iím more concern if Untouchable can actually pick teams apart with his midrange.


Then have fun watching him run into the same brick wall over and over again. As though his length has anything to do with him making mid range pull-ups.

He's more than doubled his catch & shoot attempts while cutting his pull-up attempts in half in the last 4 games, which has not-so-concidentally been when he's been absolutely killing it. So stubborn.
he took a couple heat check mid range jumpers last night, after having success with the higher efficiency shots. I'm like damn man, if you want to heat check, give us a reckless drive to the rim or a pull up three. I love Kobe but this is the age of analytics lol. That mid range sheet is an eye sore. Luckily he's growing out of it.


From your lips to God's ears. I'd rather see him pull up from 30 than from 20.


He added 6ppg to his average in year number 2 how realistic is to expect at least another 5 next season?



I think he "potentially" can be a 21/22 a game player next season, and if given some time as a play maker get 5+ assists per game. I also think his boards can get over 6 a game by next season. Shooting at or near 50% and 3point shooting over 40% on at least 4 attempts per game. I think this is also just the beginning, those numbers will rise, as he will only be 21 next season, fasten your seat belts for when he gets to 22 and beyond...


It will all depends whether we add PG/Lebron or not

If we stay basically same, you still don't expect him to increase that much pts per game without increased mins. Especially the was luke likes this team running and sharing ball, we will most likely see better scoring season from Lonzo, Kuz. and Hart by natural develolpment which will relocate pts scored on the scoreboard.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:59 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.


There's nothing wrong with being good from mid range. Sometimes you gotta take that shot and it's great if you can make it.

That's very different than it being your bread and butter.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:08 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
I don't think you guys are entirely disagreeing with one another..

Is the catch and shoot 3 a better shot for him at this stage of his career, and from a statistical stand point? Sure.. numbers don't lie..

I think what others are trying to say is that him developing a solid mid range game will only serve to make him a more well rounded offensive weapon. Not that he should live in that part of the floor exclusively. So if he's open from mid range, he should take it..

I personally don't like the mid range J's over shorter players on the block, but I guess he's not strong enough to back those guys in just yet.. So I can live with it.


There's nothing wrong with being good from mid range. Sometimes you gotta take that shot and it's great if you can make it.

That's very different than it being your bread and butter.


Agreed..
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awntawn
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Joined: 29 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:09 pm    Post subject:

Next stage in his development is the hesi pull-up jimbo from 3
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