OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject:

Endless3D wrote:
Around December/January this thread went a couple pages on trading Brandon Ingram straight up for Myles Turner.

Curious, how does everyone feel about such a trade now? I wouldn't do it but maybe some of you guys still would

If PG13 signs on? I still would. If Maginka could squeeze out a pick from Indy I'd be happier about it.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Brad Stevens is inflating the value of Tatum and Brown. Same way he did with I. Thomas, Avery Bradley, and Jae Crowder.

If you switch Ingram and Tatum. Boston would be better off and we'd be worse off.


Tatum is a far more skilled player at this stage than Ingram, so I doubt it, just as i have my doubts of the star predictions for him, which i think are based in some reality with a dollop or three of our team layered on.

I'm not predicting Ingram will be a star. But his floor is high. That's why he was a safe pick.
Tatum has looked very skilled. But Stevens has made "the problem" Morris look fantastic. Terry Rozier was the best player on the floor playing against Greek Freak, Simmons, and Embiid. J. Brown is almost a 40% 3pt shooter. After a while you have to look around and wonder what's the common denominator.
I don't think Tatum is more talented. He just has the best coach in the league when it comes to maximizing players. And sure, due to his environment he's the better player right now.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:34 pm    Post subject:

BI is just so hard to evaluate b/c his physical frame is so underdeveloped right now. It'll take a few seasons to put some meat and strength on that bone.

Tatum/Brown had more NBA ready bodies as we've seen in the playoffs. They've jumped the curve for the present being. But NBA careers are marathons. Who's to say that BI at age 25 is clearly superior to Tatum/Brown?
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durden-tyler
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 12:54 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BI is just so hard to evaluate b/c his physical frame is so underdeveloped right now. It'll take a few seasons to put some meat and strength on that bone.

Tatum/Brown had more NBA ready bodies as we've seen in the playoffs. They've jumped the curve for the present being. But NBA careers are marathons. Who's to say that BI at age 25 is clearly superior to Tatum/Brown?


I think he'll be much better than Brown, Tatum I don't know...
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:01 pm    Post subject:

durden-tyler wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BI is just so hard to evaluate b/c his physical frame is so underdeveloped right now. It'll take a few seasons to put some meat and strength on that bone.

Tatum/Brown had more NBA ready bodies as we've seen in the playoffs. They've jumped the curve for the present being. But NBA careers are marathons. Who's to say that BI at age 25 is clearly superior to Tatum/Brown?


I think he'll be much better than Brown, Tatum I don't know...


I agree. Brown is a physical specimen, but I think BI has more basketball skills than him. I think BI, once his body catches up will surpass Brown.

Tatum on the other hand, he has so many skills right now on the scoring end of the ball. Really nice player. Maybe BI catches up, maybe he won't.
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panamaniac
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Tatum's offensive skills are on a whole different level right now. The ability to score from so many different spots on the floor. BI just isn't there yet. Maybe growing into his body more will help.


Tatum's base skillset seems greater than BIs. I still think BI has the higher ceiling due to his unique physical traits and impressive progress so far.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Tatum and Brown are really good, regardless if Stevens was their head coach or not.

Both skilled and athletic, Brown being more elite in athleticism, and Tatum in skill but that being said they aren't weak in either.

Their footwork, timing, and reads are great and they can score from the 3 main areas on the floor (finishing, midrange, 3s). Their commitment to defense on the other end is awesome considering how young they are.

Imagining that they will only improve their shooting is scary. Imagining that their finishing will only improve as their physical capabilities do and they grow into their bodies is scary.

Tatum is way more smooth than Ingram and Brown more explosive. Brown is also a dog and really goes at everyone. But the main thing Ingram has going for him is that you can't teach size/length. Ingram's ceiling is exciting because he has the potential of what we see Durant is capable of doing. Although of course he is a long way from there, but he's also 20.
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oldschool32
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:47 pm    Post subject:

I think BI will eventually catch up in the skills department(though I'm a bit disappointed in his skill level since entering the league and having access to a nba player throughout h.s.), but where Tatum and Brown create the gap is their shooting.
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:45 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
Brad Stevens is inflating the value of Tatum and Brown. Same way he did with I. Thomas, Avery Bradley, and Jae Crowder.

If you switch Ingram and Tatum. Boston would be better off and we'd be worse off.

Like he inflated the value of Olynyk?
Isaiah had his hip procedure. Crowder and Bradley sure, so two people who did worse leaving Stevens vs. 1 person who did better leaving Stevens.
Hard for me to give Stevens all that credit based on that sample.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject:

why can't we just agree that Tatum and J Brown are better then ingram right now but in 2/3 years it will/might change?
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:39 pm    Post subject:

where vets like Kyle Lowry/DD are laying eggs, these 2 young boys are coming in big.

so lets not knock that off
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:40 pm    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
why can't we just agree that Tatum and J Brown are better then ingram right now but in 2/3 years it will/might change?


They will burn you
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:43 pm    Post subject:

If we had kyrie for the same amount of games we would be in the playoffs in a much tougher west and bi would be showing as well.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:12 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Brad Stevens is inflating the value of Tatum and Brown. Same way he did with I. Thomas, Avery Bradley, and Jae Crowder.

If you switch Ingram and Tatum. Boston would be better off and we'd be worse off.

Like he inflated the value of Olynyk?
Isaiah had his hip procedure. Crowder and Bradley sure, so two people who did worse leaving Stevens vs. 1 person who did better leaving Stevens.
Hard for me to give Stevens all that credit based on that sample.


Tatum is alot more comparable to the wings Stevens has coached than Olynyk. I hate giving Stevens credit. And I've been a J. Brown fan since his HS days. But I'm just trying to be objective.
Stevens has made "the problem" Morris look fantastic. Terry Rozier was the best player on the floor playing against Greek Freak, Simmons, and Embiid. J. Brown is almost a 40% 3pt shooter. After a while you have to look around and wonder what's the common denominator.
I don't think Tatum is more talented than Ingram. He just has the best coach in the league when it comes to maximizing players. And sure, due to his environment he's the better player right now.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:03 pm    Post subject:

You get burned for saying dumb things.. Nothing dumb or outrageous about stating Tatum and Brown are better at the moment. The argument can be made, though I don't agree with it.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:41 pm    Post subject:

Being a Ingram homer again but it literally irks me like today on ESPN with pelinka that all the questions are literally about Lonzo or Kuzma. As if Ingram isn’t part of our young core and arguably our best player or second best player lol
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:55 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Brad Stevens is inflating the value of Tatum and Brown. Same way he did with I. Thomas, Avery Bradley, and Jae Crowder.

If you switch Ingram and Tatum. Boston would be better off and we'd be worse off.

Like he inflated the value of Olynyk?
Isaiah had his hip procedure. Crowder and Bradley sure, so two people who did worse leaving Stevens vs. 1 person who did better leaving Stevens.
Hard for me to give Stevens all that credit based on that sample.


Tatum is alot more comparable to the wings Stevens has coached than Olynyk. I hate giving Stevens credit. And I've been a J. Brown fan since his HS days. But I'm just trying to be objective.
Stevens has made "the problem" Morris look fantastic. Terry Rozier was the best player on the floor playing against Greek Freak, Simmons, and Embiid. J. Brown is almost a 40% 3pt shooter. After a while you have to look around and wonder what's the common denominator.
I don't think Tatum is more talented than Ingram. He just has the best coach in the league when it comes to maximizing players. And sure, due to his environment he's the better player right now.


There’s nothing wrong with saying that Stevens is an amazing coach. He’s doing what he’s supposed to do. Getting the most out of his squad. It doesn’t hurt that the Cavs are garbage, especially defensively. Go back the last twenty years and no team ranked 29th in defensive efficiency (or remotely close to it) has won the title.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:56 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
^Tatum isn't even that far behind Ingram as a playmaker. It's just not really his role. Horford and Rozier do a solid job of that for him already. Brown and Tatum just need to finish up the plays.


Strongly disagree. Guys who are good playmakers will naturally make ays for others. Tatum.simply doesn't do this. Even Kuzma who I harp on for being a bit of a blackhole is a better playmaker than Tatum. You're strongly biased toward Tatum though so I understand.
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:57 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
1) Per 36 numbers are going to favor a guy on a team that plays at the 2nd fastest pace in the NBA as opposed to the 22nd fastest pace. And Tatum's numbers are still better despite that.

2) You don't give any credit for being the leading scorer on a team that's on the verge of the NBA Finals? Really?

3) I think Tatum's a better defender than Ingram.

4) Their one-number analytics aren't even close.


What numbers does Tatum have that are better besides TS?
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:59 pm    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
You get burned for saying dumb things.. Nothing dumb or outrageous about stating Tatum and Brown are better at the moment. The argument can be made, though I don't agree with it.


Of course you don't agree with it, smart guy
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:03 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
kikanga wrote:
Brad Stevens is inflating the value of Tatum and Brown. Same way he did with I. Thomas, Avery Bradley, and Jae Crowder.

If you switch Ingram and Tatum. Boston would be better off and we'd be worse off.


Tatum is a far more skilled player at this stage than Ingram, so I doubt it, just as i have my doubts of the star predictions for him, which i think are based in some reality with a dollop or three of our team layered on.


At what besides scoring?
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Luminous8
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:06 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
why can't we just agree that Tatum and J Brown are better then ingram right now but in 2/3 years it will/might change?


They will burn you


Tatum.its a arguable, but Brown isnt on BI or Tatum's level. He's LITERALLY a 3&D guy only. No playmaking whatsoever. No vision, terrible decision making. He's a finisher and defender.
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Jesusdelonla
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:09 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
Jesusdelonla wrote:
why can't we just agree that Tatum and J Brown are better then ingram right now but in 2/3 years it will/might change?


They will burn you


Tatum.its a arguable, but Brown isnt on BI or Tatum's level. He's LITERALLY a 3&D guy only. No playmaking whatsoever. No vision, terrible decision making. He's a finisher and defender.


Lol
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Lowest Merion
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject:

Luminous8 wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
1) Per 36 numbers are going to favor a guy on a team that plays at the 2nd fastest pace in the NBA as opposed to the 22nd fastest pace. And Tatum's numbers are still better despite that.

2) You don't give any credit for being the leading scorer on a team that's on the verge of the NBA Finals? Really?

3) I think Tatum's a better defender than Ingram.

4) Their one-number analytics aren't even close.


What numbers does Tatum have that are better besides TS?


Really? Basically every advanced stat that exists. PER, OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, VORP, etc.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 11:16 pm    Post subject:

I’m literally the biggest ingram fan and I will even say that Tatum is better. Tatum is who I wanted to draft
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