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Lonzo-Lite Star Player
Joined: 17 May 2011 Posts: 5085
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Nash Vegas wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
Which is why:
Nash Vegas wrote: | All this "Ingram is still adjusting to LeBron", then just let him come off the bench and do his thing while giving LeBron some rests.
He'll likely be much more efficient fit as a sixth man on this team than he is now as a starter because he'll be able to have the ball in his hands more which is his biggest strenght. There are sixth men who are all-stars and Ingram can be that on this team. |
Ingram can be that centerpiece with the 2nd unit. |
I honestly think Luke starting Ingram right now after coming back from a 5 game suspension might be more to do with Ingram’s confidence.
Most thought that Kuzma was going back to the bench for Ingram, but after seeing how obviously good the chemistry between LeBron and Kuzma was while Ingram was out, Luke knew he couldn’t just sit Kuzma again. So he moved Hart out instead and gave that spot to Ingram.
In all honesty, playing Ingram at the 2 doesn’t make too much sense, but I don’t think Luke can have Ingram come off the bench and have it not affect his confidence mentally.
But I do believe that Ingram coming off the bench and be the go-to for the 2nd unit would do wonders for his game and for the team. He could be our James Harden playmaker off the bench like when he was in OKC. _________________ Tacos
Last edited by Lonzo-Lite on Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29150 Location: La La Land
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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https://twitter.com/jacobrude/status/1062152100623384582
Quote: | Jacob Rude @JacobRude
Per NBA's match-up stats, some of Brandon Ingram's recent defense assignments
Trae Young - 11 poss, 0-2 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Buddy Hield - 14 poss, 0-4 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Jimmy Butler - 38 poss, 4-9 FG, 0 TOV, 3 AST
Kyle Lowry - 16 poss, 0-3 FG, 1 AST, 0 AST
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_________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Nash Vegas Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 7239
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo-Lite wrote: | Nash Vegas wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | If BI thought co-existing with LBJ was tough, imagine if we add KD/KL/Klay?
Unless you are so clearly gifted and should be a centerpiece of the team's offense, you have to adapt to the team. It will be LBJ this year, and likely LBJ + another a high usage all star. |
Which is why:
Nash Vegas wrote: | All this "Ingram is still adjusting to LeBron", then just let him come off the bench and do his thing while giving LeBron some rests.
He'll likely be much more efficient fit as a sixth man on this team than he is now as a starter because he'll be able to have the ball in his hands more which is his biggest strenght. There are sixth men who are all-stars and Ingram can be that on this team. |
Ingram can be that centerpiece with the 2nd unit. |
I honestly think Luke starting Ingram right now after coming back from a 5 game suspension might be more to do with Ingram’s confidence.
Most thought that Kuzma was going back to the bench for Ingram, but after seeing how obviously good the chemistry between LeBron and Kuzma was while Ingram was out, Luke knew he couldn’t just sit Kuzma again. So he moved Hart out instead and gave that spot to Ingram.
In all honesty, playing Ingram at the 2 doesn’t make too much sense, but I don’t think Luke can have Ingram come off the bench and have it not affect his confidence mentally.
But I do believe that Ingram coming off the bench and be the go-to for the 2nd unit would do wonders for his game and for the team. He could be our James Harden playmaker off the bench like when he was in OKC. |
James Harden, Manu Ginobili, even Lamar Odom all were great sixth men. They all could've started but it made more sense for their team's fit and and for them to be at their best when they came off the bench. Absolutely nothing wrong with coming off the bench to be able to contribute to help the team win. Ingram with the ball in his hands can put up beautiful numbers. _________________ |
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av3773 Star Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2011 Posts: 3750
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not going to be surprised if BI is moved by the trade deadline.... |
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Nash Vegas Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012 Posts: 7239
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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av3773 wrote: | I'm not going to be surprised if BI is moved by the trade deadline.... |
If Lakers keep insisting that BI must adapt to LeBron, then yes, because it's not going to work. That's not Ingram's game. That's like telling Dwight Howard he needs to adapt to shooting 3s or else. Ingram needs the ball in his hands.
Instead of telling Ingram to change his game to adapt to LeBron and the starters, they should let him roam free with the 2nd unit so he can play his natural game. _________________ |
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matrixskillz Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2008 Posts: 7502
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Ingram's PER is 10.6. For reference, league average is 15 and only KCP is lower at 8.1. _________________ We only celebrate championships.
"I GOT WHEATIES!" |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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av3773 wrote: | I'm not going to be surprised if BI is moved by the trade deadline.... |
I don't see it. I think we make some lateral moves (Beez/Lance/KCP being possibilities) to get an expiring deal, or be active in the buyout market.
Trading for a player now likely means we eat into that 38m in projected cap space (which is what KD is eligible to get). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Nash Vegas wrote: | av3773 wrote: | I'm not going to be surprised if BI is moved by the trade deadline.... |
If Lakers keep insisting that BI must adapt to LeBron, then yes, because it's not going to work. That's not Ingram's game. That's like telling Dwight Howard he needs to adapt to shooting 3s or else. Ingram needs the ball in his hands.
Instead of telling Ingram to change his game to adapt to LeBron and the starters, they should let him roam free with the 2nd unit so he can play his natural game. |
LeBron's going to play 38-40 minutes come playoff time. They can and should stagger his and Ingram's minutes, but they're gonna have to figure out how to play together if this is gonna work. And that will need to start with Ingram not needing to have the ball in his hands and producing off of other actions instead, especially considering that he isn't particularly productive when he does have the ball in his hands. The seeds for a your-turn-my-turn deal like it was with LeBron & Kyrie or LeBron & Wade aren't there. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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Brandon Ingram's Isolation PPP
2018-19.......0.80 (31st percentile)
2017-18.......0.78 (33rd percentile)
2016-17.......0.79 (42nd percentile)
Brandon Ingram's Pick & Roll Ball-Handler PPP
2018-19.......0.75 (33rd percentile)
2017-18.......0.79 (45th percentile)
2016-17.......0.59 (16th percentile)
Those numbers drop even further when pass-outs are included, I just don't have access to Synergy at the moment. His performance with the ball in his hands has been consistent and predictable.
What's the definition of insanity? |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Brandon Ingram's Isolation PPP
2018-19.......0.80 (31st percentile)
2017-18.......0.78 (33rd percentile)
2016-17.......0.79 (42nd percentile)
Brandon Ingram's Pick & Roll Ball-Handler PPP
2018-19.......0.75 (33rd percentile)
2017-18.......0.79 (45th percentile)
2016-17.......0.59 (16th percentile)
Those numbers drop even further when pass-outs are included, I just don't have access to Synergy at the moment. His performance with the ball in his hands has been consistent and predictable.
What's the definition of insanity? |
Somebody tell Luke and Ingram. |
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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Brandon Ingram's Isolation PPP
2018-19.......0.80 (31st percentile)
2017-18.......0.78 (33rd percentile)
2016-17.......0.79 (42nd percentile)
Brandon Ingram's Pick & Roll Ball-Handler PPP
2018-19.......0.75 (33rd percentile)
2017-18.......0.79 (45th percentile)
2016-17.......0.59 (16th percentile)
Those numbers drop even further when pass-outs are included, I just don't have access to Synergy at the moment. His performance with the ball in his hands has been consistent and predictable.
What's the definition of insanity? |
Yuck. Completely backed up by the eye test too |
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Bol Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 4045
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | https://twitter.com/jacobrude/status/1062152100623384582
Quote: | Jacob Rude @JacobRude
Per NBA's match-up stats, some of Brandon Ingram's recent defense assignments
Trae Young - 11 poss, 0-2 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Buddy Hield - 14 poss, 0-4 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Jimmy Butler - 38 poss, 4-9 FG, 0 TOV, 3 AST
Kyle Lowry - 16 poss, 0-3 FG, 1 AST, 0 AST
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I guess that might be his niche. |
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Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22734 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Bol wrote: | kikanga wrote: | https://twitter.com/jacobrude/status/1062152100623384582
Quote: | Jacob Rude @JacobRude
Per NBA's match-up stats, some of Brandon Ingram's recent defense assignments
Trae Young - 11 poss, 0-2 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Buddy Hield - 14 poss, 0-4 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Jimmy Butler - 38 poss, 4-9 FG, 0 TOV, 3 AST
Kyle Lowry - 16 poss, 0-3 FG, 1 AST, 0 AST
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I guess that might be his niche. |
I think he'll be more. It's frustrating pulling for him because you feel like he should hit some of the shots he misses. You also think his reach would help him finish some of the chippies and layups he's constantly missing.
At the end of the day, his FG ain't bad for what he is now. I think he's going to be one of those 50% scorers in this league when he finally gets it. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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What he can absolutely work on and contribute now is defense. I like what I’m seeing in that regard so far. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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AFireInside619 Franchise Player
Joined: 11 Dec 2015 Posts: 11447
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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I have loved Ingram’s game since day 1. With that said, I might be buying into this second unit hype. Either that or just be a good player out there. Seems like a lot of forcing going on. If his stat line is 12/7/5 but he has a good all around game, maybe that’s all we should as of him. Just be a good complete player. If he becomes a star then great for us. If we trade him for a star then great for us (which seems likely given FA plans next summer). |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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kikanga wrote: | https://twitter.com/jacobrude/status/1062152100623384582
Quote: | Jacob Rude @JacobRude
Per NBA's match-up stats, some of Brandon Ingram's recent defense assignments
Trae Young - 11 poss, 0-2 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Buddy Hield - 14 poss, 0-4 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Jimmy Butler - 38 poss, 4-9 FG, 0 TOV, 3 AST
Kyle Lowry - 16 poss, 0-3 FG, 1 AST, 0 AST
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He’s becoming a good defender. No doubt about it and that’s exciting his potential there is huge.
Now he needs to stop playing like it’s 1997 on offense. Coaches need to step up and guide him |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Brandon Ingram's Isolation PPP
2018-19.......0.80 (31st percentile)
2017-18.......0.78 (33rd percentile)
2016-17.......0.79 (42nd percentile)
Brandon Ingram's Pick & Roll Ball-Handler PPP
2018-19.......0.75 (33rd percentile)
2017-18.......0.79 (45th percentile)
2016-17.......0.59 (16th percentile)
Those numbers drop even further when pass-outs are included, I just don't have access to Synergy at the moment. His performance with the ball in his hands has been consistent and predictable.
What's the definition of insanity? |
At this point it’s on coaching to guide and correct this. But as you said Luke doesn’t want to limit guys development even though BI taking less midrange and PnR handler would maximize his other skills |
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sonic the laker Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2013 Posts: 2061
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Brandon Ingram's Isolation PPP
2018-19.......0.80 (31st percentile)
2017-18.......0.78 (33rd percentile)
2016-17.......0.79 (42nd percentile)
Brandon Ingram's Pick & Roll Ball-Handler PPP
2018-19.......0.75 (33rd percentile)
2017-18.......0.79 (45th percentile)
2016-17.......0.59 (16th percentile)
Those numbers drop even further when pass-outs are included, I just don't have access to Synergy at the moment. His performance with the ball in his hands has been consistent and predictable.
What's the definition of insanity? |
I think a lot of this is in the context of current team construction, versus last years team construction. Last year's team construction, and playstyle, favored Ingram and Zo. Hart and Kuz thrived as well. Hart and Kuz continue to thrive in this current iteration of the Lakers (after getting off to a bumpy start), while B.I. and Zo continue to struggle.
I believe we went into a little bit of this on Twitter, GT, where I go under a different handle (Freespirit). Not sure if it's just a matter of Ingram and Zo going through some "growing pains", or if the both of them leading the second unit, together, will help them settle in. Either way, I do believe it's the in the best interest of the team to get it's best players a chance to see if they can work things out, together. _________________ ZOOM!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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ShowtimeReturns Star Player
Joined: 21 Oct 2017 Posts: 1065
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Bol wrote: | kikanga wrote: | https://twitter.com/jacobrude/status/1062152100623384582
Quote: | Jacob Rude @JacobRude
Per NBA's match-up stats, some of Brandon Ingram's recent defense assignments
Trae Young - 11 poss, 0-2 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Buddy Hield - 14 poss, 0-4 FG, 1 TOV, 1 AST
Jimmy Butler - 38 poss, 4-9 FG, 0 TOV, 3 AST
Kyle Lowry - 16 poss, 0-3 FG, 1 AST, 0 AST
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I guess that might be his niche. |
Thats pretty impressive good job BI. |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the Tayshaun Prince comparisons weren't far off. |
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ibitegirls Star Player
Joined: 29 Dec 2011 Posts: 4204
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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Highest ceiling of any of our young guns. He just needs to stop taking those contested 2's and start shooting some 3's and he will be alright |
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TooMuchMajicBuss Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Sep 2008 Posts: 21064 Location: In a white room, with black curtains near the station
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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BI's defense is good. I'd feel a lot better about him if he put more effort into understanding how he can be more effective alongside the rest of the squad that we have now, instead of going iso, pounding the ball, and taking contested mid range 2's.
He's capable of cutting, understanding passing angles, going to the hoop, or conversely getting up more 3's, or driving and dishing. Why don't we see more of this? It feels like two offenses competing with each other when BI's in the starting unit.
But his defense is good.
So yeah, two sides of the coin with BI and it doesn't have to be. |
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The Juggernaut Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017 Posts: 4572
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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LakerLogic wrote: | I guess the Tayshaun Prince comparisons weren't far off. |
He’s way more talented than Prince but this coaching staff isn’t developing him optimally which is why he’s more towards his floor of TP than ceiling . Pop would have had BI looking like Kawhi |
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tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17835
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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matrixskillz wrote: | Ingram's PER is 10.6. For reference, league average is 15 and only KCP is lower at 8.1. |
2018 and using PER |
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LakerLogic Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Mar 2005 Posts: 17886
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Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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tox wrote: | matrixskillz wrote: | Ingram's PER is 10.6. For reference, league average is 15 and only KCP is lower at 8.1. |
2018 and using PER |
True but all of his advanced stats suck. |
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