OFFICIAL BRANDON INGRAM THREAD
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Villain6Activated
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject:

Ingram hasn't put on a great amount of weight but he's gotten a little bigger both seasons, I don't know what people were expecting. If he makes similar progresses every offseason into his mid twenties his transformation would be similar to a Kevin Durant or a Kevin Garnett. Both those dudes got stronger and grew into their bodies without becoming bulky.
That's what has always been the consensus on Ingram's body type, so why are we judging him by the body type of Lonzo or Giannis?

To say that he's not putting in the work is absurd, he went out looking for trainers and his work ethic has been complimented by multiple different people whether it be teammates or front office.

I think if we're looking for a blame a more appropriate thing to say is that he might have been stubborn about focusing on things he wanted to improve on such as isolation work, scoring etc. He chose to go out on his own and find the right trainer. Would he have been better off sticking with Hart and Kuzma in LA working with the Lakers training staff? I think so but it's not because he doesn't have a work ethic. I think it goes back to that one poster saying they showed him film of Durant at Duke, seems to me like his offseason training was focused on that and his first two seasons under Luke were also focused on that.
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JPaulK0n
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject:

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At (102.4) Brandon Ingram has the 9th best defensive rating in the league for guys playing +30 min per game. Thats tied with guys like Draymond Green & Rudy Gobert.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
At (102.4) Brandon Ingram has the 9th best defensive rating in the league for guys playing +30 min per game. Thats tied with guys like Draymond Green & Rudy Gobert.


Beautiful!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:57 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
At (102.4) Brandon Ingram has the 9th best defensive rating in the league for guys playing +30 min per game. Thats tied with guys like Draymond Green & Rudy Gobert.


Beautiful!!


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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:59 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
That's also why I'm a lot more interested in helping to expand the concept of community-based content than I am in working for outlets anymore. There are a lot of smart people who have the most important ingredient to creating great content...actually giving a (bleep) about the topic.

Take KIROE, for example. He's big into shot mechanics. He produces really interesting content when he wants to and I bet he could make a living doing it after a couple of years of pursuing that if he focused on it.

Conventional outlets won't have much value beyond airing games within the next decade. People are going to increasingly pursue their sports analysis through the lens of specialists. You guys more about the Lakers than most basketball analysts and commentators do, and it's only a matter of time.


Appreciate it, man.
Can’t wait til the good online analysts take over the whole game. I think a high quality produced YouTube basketball Talkshow , with like a nice desk and studio..would be huge. Idk how much that costs though, I know your bro is into making shows.. it would be tight
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:04 pm    Post subject:

What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
That's also why I'm a lot more interested in helping to expand the concept of community-based content than I am in working for outlets anymore. There are a lot of smart people who have the most important ingredient to creating great content...actually giving a (bleep) about the topic.

Take KIROE, for example. He's big into shot mechanics. He produces really interesting content when he wants to and I bet he could make a living doing it after a couple of years of pursuing that if he focused on it.

Conventional outlets won't have much value beyond airing games within the next decade. People are going to increasingly pursue their sports analysis through the lens of specialists. You guys more about the Lakers than most basketball analysts and commentators do, and it's only a matter of time.


Appreciate it, man.
Can’t wait til the good online analysts take over the whole game. I think a high quality produced YouTube basketball Talkshow , with like a nice desk and studio..would be huge. Idk how much that costs though, I know your bro is into making shows.. it would be tight


Our types are in the minority, I don't think most basketball fans appreciate nuance. They can tolerate it in bits as long as its wrapped in an entertainment package and bolster.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:06 pm    Post subject:

Having a thick/beefy lower body + wide shoulders allows players like Drummond, hell even Lebron at 6'8 to box out and get in a better position for a rebound.

Ingram doesn't have the lower body mass nor the overall strength yet to position himself to be a high volume rebounder. I don't think he'll ever be that guy but if he can average like 4-5 rebounds per game, that would be pretty good IMO.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:14 pm    Post subject:

JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
At (102.4) Brandon Ingram has the 9th best defensive rating in the league for guys playing +30 min per game. Thats tied with guys like Draymond Green & Rudy Gobert.


I mean, he’s been giving problems to guys like Luka and was holding his own against DeRozan, not surprised by that stat.
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JPaulK0n
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:37 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
At (102.4) Brandon Ingram has the 9th best defensive rating in the league for guys playing +30 min per game. Thats tied with guys like Draymond Green & Rudy Gobert.


I mean, he’s been giving problems to guys like Luka and was holding his own against DeRozan, not surprised by that stat.

He's also tied for 12th in defensive win shares as well for players that play over 30 minutes as well. His defense by the eye test is now matching the advanced stats as well. He also has +3.3 Net Rating, with a 105.8 offensive rating and a 102.4 defensive rating, along with his plus/minus is at a +2.1. He may not have made the big leap everyone wanted, but he's turned into a real positive player and a defensive stopper.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:04 pm    Post subject:

This isn't directed at anyone but is my 'get off my lawn; moment...

The game is 2 hours long.

The analysis and hot takes about the game are literally every remaining hour until the next game.

And for every number a person can point to...there's always another number that contradicts the 1st number...and then another number to contradict that one...and not one of them has an impact on the upcoming game.

How people spend more time analyzing the game (without being compensated) than the game itself lasts blows my mind.

And in most cases to protect an emotional need for the player they are analyzing to either succeed or fail based upon that need.

I long for the days when drafts weren't televised, off-season training wasn't a 'look at me' thing, and people actually spent time in between games living.

Good Night LG...it's been real.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
This isn't directed at anyone but is my 'get off my lawn; moment...

The game is 2 hours long.

The analysis and hot takes about the game are literally every remaining hour until the next game.

And for every number a person can point to...there's always another number that contradicts the 1st number...and then another number to contradict that one.

How people spend more time analyzing the game (without being compensated) than the game itself lasts blows my mind.

And in most cases to protect an emotional need for the player they are analyzing to either succeed or fail based upon that need.

I long for the days when drafts weren't televised, off-season training wasn't a 'look at me' thing, and people actually spent time in between games living.

Good Night LG...it's been real.


Most of us have family and friends and lead regular lives. Right now I'm taking care of my dad so I have more time than normal... but I've always been a passionate sports fan.

Unless they are obsessed with basketball... they don't want to hear you talk for hours about the Lakers... it's obnoxious.

I also discuss movies, and politics, and English football, cooking, television... all kinds of subjects.

The beauty of the internet is that you don't have to inflict yourself on people close to you and bore them to tears with the minutiae of a players TS%... They might listen to you because they love you... but most of the time they don't care.

Bottom line... participation is optional. It's not like someone's forcing you to read or discuss these topics.

I get that some people are obnoxious... I'm sure I'm obnoxious to others as well... but just ignore people if they piss you off.

The great French philosopher Jean-Paul Sartre said "hell is other people"... and no truer words were spoken... People are also the source of great joy and love and support... but if you hang around anyone long enough... they will piss you off unless they are the kind who just sit around and agree with everyone.

Some people prefer hanging around that type... some get bored to tears by it... but the internet is not the place if you just want your opinions happily reaffirmed all day.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:37 pm    Post subject:

Been reading some articles re: Giannis

His predraft measurements was 6'8.5 196lbs (19 years old) and by the end of his first season with the Bucks, he was 6'11 222lbs.

Current day he is 242lbs @24 years old. A freak indeed.

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1023339201075527681

On the other hand, I've read articles saying that BI was 190-195lbs predraft at 19 years old. Currently he's still listed at 195lbs at 21 years old.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:35 am    Post subject:

Most of the stat analysis stuff just goes way over my head, probably because I checked out on math pretty much after algebra. I look at the primary box score stats; points, rebounds, assists, and glance at blocks, steals, and turnovers. I look at our Mod's +/- and that about as deep as I go. Deeper than that, and it gets a little too 'Rain-man" for me.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:24 am    Post subject:

SocalDevin wrote:
What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.


My honest projection is that kind of player. Someone who can hopefully have all NBA defense potential, and is an 18-22ppg level scorer who can also dime 4.5-5apg and 6-8 rpg.

That is a very good player even if that is not a superstar.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:43 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.


My honest projection is that kind of player. Someone who can hopefully have all NBA defense potential, and is an 18-22ppg level scorer who can also dime 4.5-5apg and 6-8 rpg.

That is a very good player even if that is not a superstar.


That is not a superstar IMO. But yeah I could see that as his ceiling and I could see him consistently putting up those numbers too, as in, relative low variance in his night to night games.

Also, I don't think Ingram's limitation is a function of his weight, definitely a part of it, but I think it's mainly mental with him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject:

chickenjoy24 wrote:
Been reading some articles re: Giannis

His predraft measurements was 6'8.5 196lbs (19 years old) and by the end of his first season with the Bucks, he was 6'11 222lbs.

Current day he is 242lbs @24 years old. A freak indeed.

https://twitter.com/TommyBeer/status/1023339201075527681

On the other hand, I've read articles saying that BI was 190-195lbs predraft at 19 years old. Currently he's still listed at 195lbs at 21 years old.


Weights aren’t updated for the majority of players. Lonzo says he weighs 210 now, but is still listed at his rookie weight of 190. Mitch said Ingram came in at 185, I’d guess he’s 200 now
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:13 am    Post subject:

Another aspect of Ingram's game that I think will improve is his ability to finish at the basket. He will gain a few ppg just by getting a couple more calls per game and learning to protect the ball and "force the call" as he learns the how to be a professional scorer.

A bit more efficient and has less of those TOs or wild attempts and it will make a world of difference for him. Adding strength is part of that, being savvy enough to finish consistently an even bigger part IMO.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject:

I think BI becomes a much more deadly player once he realizes that scoring isn't the only way to contribute.

That's why we salivate when he shows flashes of that in games where he is all over the floor offensively and not just isolating.

And the funny thing is he gets in the 20+ppg range for those games when he's not singularly focusing on scoring.

Once he understands that, will be a much better player IMO.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject:

I don't see him ever becoming a 20 point scorer on the lakers, at least not with the way the roster looks now or projects to become
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:46 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.


My honest projection is that kind of player. Someone who can hopefully have all NBA defense potential, and is an 18-22ppg level scorer who can also dime 4.5-5apg and 6-8 rpg.

That is a very good player even if that is not a superstar.


I would LOVE for Ingram to become prime Andrei Kirilenko.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:53 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.


My honest projection is that kind of player. Someone who can hopefully have all NBA defense potential, and is an 18-22ppg level scorer who can also dime 4.5-5apg and 6-8 rpg.

That is a very good player even if that is not a superstar.


I would LOVE for Ingram to become prime Andrei Kirilenko.


I don't think BI will ever match AK's vertial explosiveness though.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:43 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
JPaulK0n wrote:
Quote:
At (102.4) Brandon Ingram has the 9th best defensive rating in the league for guys playing +30 min per game. Thats tied with guys like Draymond Green & Rudy Gobert.


I mean, he’s been giving problems to guys like Luka and was holding his own against DeRozan, not surprised by that stat.


Whenever someone in this thread tries to argue his defense is overrated. Or isn't effective. I'll think of this stat.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:46 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.


My honest projection is that kind of player. Someone who can hopefully have all NBA defense potential, and is an 18-22ppg level scorer who can also dime 4.5-5apg and 6-8 rpg.

That is a very good player even if that is not a superstar.


I would LOVE for Ingram to become prime Andrei Kirilenko.


Good luck with that. AK47 averaged like 2 stls and 3 blks in his prime. He was a BEAST.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:57 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
SocalDevin wrote:
What would you guys say that made Ingram.. if he ended up becoming an elite defender with a solid offensive game overall?

I don't think he can be a superstar unless he picks up 15 to 20 pounds and adds some strength. But allstar status a few years from now seems within reach if he doesn't.


My honest projection is that kind of player. Someone who can hopefully have all NBA defense potential, and is an 18-22ppg level scorer who can also dime 4.5-5apg and 6-8 rpg.

That is a very good player even if that is not a superstar.


I would LOVE for Ingram to become prime Andrei Kirilenko.


Good luck with that. AK47 averaged like 2 stls and 3 blks in his prime. He was a BEAST.


Just a defensive playmaking knack that Ingram doesn’t have. Bumping down/helping and getting blocks ; passing lanes , etc. Someone like Jonathan Isaac actually has that. Maybe he can develop it but it seems intrinsic — imagine if u put Zo in Ingram’s body.....

BI also has to get back to actually trying to play fast/explosive, this was his mentality his rookie year. We were really optimistic about his athleticism then
https://youtu.be/5SttD9kNcyU?t=63
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