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Villain6Activated Star Player
Joined: 22 Dec 2011 Posts: 6697
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not mad with him missing shots or looking like a rookie but he really needs to be more aggressive. He should not be okay with starting 1-1 and then not taking a shot for the next 20 minutes. |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not frustrated about his offensive game, even his aggression level. He's doing what he's capable of at this point in time. That capability's gonna grow over time, but there's no real sense in being upset by it.
Defensively, this kid is unbelievable. People think of a "lock down defender" as someone who defends guys in ISO situations and shuts them down. It happens occasionally, but that's not really how defense works in 2016 the vast majority of the time. Most of the time it's rotations & closeouts, and he's phenomenal at that. Really one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen in this respect. |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | I'm not frustrated about his offensive game, even his aggression level. He's doing what he's capable of at this point in time. That capability's gonna grow over time, but there's no real sense in being upset by it.
Defensively, this kid is unbelievable. People think of a "lock down defender" as someone who defends guys in ISO situations and shuts them down. It happens occasionally, but that's not really how defense works in 2016 the vast majority of the time. Most of the time it's rotations & closeouts, and he's phenomenal at that. Really one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen in this respect. |
Exactly. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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Laker Junkie Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jun 2016 Posts: 403
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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There were couple defensive sequences tonight which were unreal by this kid. He showed some real flashes again on that end of the floor. |
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Jim99187 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 22138
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | I'm not frustrated about his offensive game, even his aggression level. He's doing what he's capable of at this point in time. That capability's gonna grow over time, but there's no real sense in being upset by it.
Defensively, this kid is unbelievable. People think of a "lock down defender" as someone who defends guys in ISO situations and shuts them down. It happens occasionally, but that's not really how defense works in 2016 the vast majority of the time. Most of the time it's rotations & closeouts, and he's phenomenal at that. Really one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen in this respect. |
yo GT, why doesnt luke call some set plays for him on offensive end? get him open, some layups, some jumpers?
to get the kids confidence high? |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Jim99187 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | I'm not frustrated about his offensive game, even his aggression level. He's doing what he's capable of at this point in time. That capability's gonna grow over time, but there's no real sense in being upset by it.
Defensively, this kid is unbelievable. People think of a "lock down defender" as someone who defends guys in ISO situations and shuts them down. It happens occasionally, but that's not really how defense works in 2016 the vast majority of the time. Most of the time it's rotations & closeouts, and he's phenomenal at that. Really one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen in this respect. |
yo GT, why doesnt luke call some set plays for him on offensive end? get him open, some layups, some jumpers?
to get the kids confidence high? |
They have a back screen lob that they run for him out of timeouts a decent amount of the time. The best example of it working is in the first play of the 2nd Quarter in the Indiana game, where he got a layup.
By & large the after timeout stuff is geared toward getting the roll man a dunk, or an open, spot up 3. He's usually not the roll man (Tarik Black's gotten a lot of these dunks, for example), and he has been the beneficiary of wide open 3's from time to time on those. |
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Jim99187 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 22138
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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GoldenThroat wrote: | Jim99187 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | I'm not frustrated about his offensive game, even his aggression level. He's doing what he's capable of at this point in time. That capability's gonna grow over time, but there's no real sense in being upset by it.
Defensively, this kid is unbelievable. People think of a "lock down defender" as someone who defends guys in ISO situations and shuts them down. It happens occasionally, but that's not really how defense works in 2016 the vast majority of the time. Most of the time it's rotations & closeouts, and he's phenomenal at that. Really one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen in this respect. |
yo GT, why doesnt luke call some set plays for him on offensive end? get him open, some layups, some jumpers?
to get the kids confidence high? |
They have a back screen lob that they run for him out of timeouts a decent amount of the time. The best example of it working is in the first play of the 2nd Quarter in the Indiana game, where he got a layup.
By & large the after timeout stuff is geared toward getting the roll man a dunk, or an open, spot up 3. He's usually not the roll man (Tarik Black's gotten a lot of these dunks, for example), and he has been the beneficiary of wide open 3's from time to time on those. |
Thanks GT. I like his shots which are off ball. He drained couple of smooth jumpers last 2/3 games.
I just get scared when he passes open 3's and goes into the teeth of defense & gets a to |
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PICKnPOP Star Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2014 Posts: 5356
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Reading some of these comments makes me wonder how many people actually watched Ingram in college. His shots aren't falling but this is pretty much his game. People will feel differently when his shots start falling with more consistency.
Gotta stop expecting him to be an aggressive scorer, that's not him. He will give you 20 (efficiently) and great defense though in his prime as the second best option on offense! |
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Worthy42 Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Aug 2004 Posts: 19952
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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5 TO's today from Brandon. He lost focus, threw a handful of ill-advised passes, just didn't look all that comfortable out there tonight. Blame it on youth, fatigue, whatever, but we want to see the aggression levels turned several notches up. Sometimes he's just coasting through games... shades of pre-6moty LO. |
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epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
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Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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You can't teach length on those close outs! |
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lakersfan8 Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 2991
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:59 am Post subject: |
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I am not frustrated about his offense in this game as some of you do. Maybe he wasn't aggressive but he has taken all the shots that he should have. The aggressiveness probably is just how the system works. He is not assigned to be a primary scorer in this team. |
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KeepItRealOrElse Retired Number
Joined: 11 Oct 2012 Posts: 32767
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:05 am Post subject: |
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epak wrote: | You can't teach length on those close outs! |
yup. he's either changing/contesting your shot, or you're hearing his footsteps because he can always get pretty close to you |
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44-25 Starting Rotation
Joined: 05 Aug 2013 Posts: 447
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:55 am Post subject: |
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footsteps... he can always get pretty close to you.
Best part of his contribution to the team. The other end of the floor game will come. |
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Sina Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015 Posts: 1793
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Sadly, he played like a total coward tonight. His passiveness hurt this team tremendously on offense. Especially when his passiveness turned into bad turnovers.
When DLO, Young, Nance, etc are all out, Ingram had to be the one to step up. I thought last game was the game where he finally got the confidence to shoot as much a shot he can. Sadly, he played like he's back to square 1.
Ingram is pissing me off because he has so much talent and skill already and could be scoring 15+ if he was aggressive like DLO, but he flat out just refuses to do anything with the ball 85% of the time when he gets it. He's playing scared.
I know he's a 19 year old kid, but grow a damn backbone. You're a (bleep) good player, act like it. Don't be a Wesley Johnson. |
This kid is so talented. But he really need to be more aggressive. Hope that Luke could help him in this aspect. |
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lakersboi1993 Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jun 2014 Posts: 138
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Not worried Ingram defense on run-outs jumper I didn't see a single grizzly player score on a jumper when he contested let alone all season to be honest let him fill out his frame and get more experience and will do everything for you grab rebounds score defense assist block shots hes playing the hardest position in the NBA point guard and every point guard goes through the bumps and bruises to be expected he's a keeper |
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Gimme_the_rock Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Apr 2001 Posts: 11882 Location: Looking outta the window, watching the asphalt grow ...
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 8:44 am Post subject: |
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The game before was a nice step forward, offensively. Last night's game was a step back. Not exactly uncommon for a rookie. I get frustrated with his hesitancy to shoot, especially when he's out there with gun shy Nance. But Brandon just has a different makeup. That corner will be turned for him confidence-wise and then it'll be game on. Like GT and yinoma have continually cautioned, Ingram is the kind of player you have be patient with while dialing down the expectations of how far his game develops. For me, I just think it's a strength and confidence issue for the most part. The kid can shoot. He's just not hitting consistently yet. Once that changes, more of his offense will open up and you'll see more impact out of him on that end.
But for now, the kid is all impact on defense. Just so disruptive. I'll gladly take that while he finds his confidence on offense. _________________ We back. |
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lakerlynx Starting Rotation
Joined: 16 Apr 2011 Posts: 310
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:23 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if he can make one of the NBA all-defensive teams as a rookie? _________________ Chick Hearn and Vin Scully. How lucky are we? |
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LawyerShawn Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2005 Posts: 1834
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Hm. Weird game. Last game BI showed confidence..this game he was a Lamar Odom clone. I hope he doesn't become a Lamar tier star (not that it's a bad thing but I have high hopes for BI). _________________ Station where the act becomes the art of growing up. |
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Cutheon Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2009 Posts: 12111 Location: Bay Area
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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lakerlynx wrote: | I wonder if he can make one of the NBA all-defensive teams as a rookie? |
I think we have a much rosier view of BI's defense than the rest of the NBA, so, no -- he of course can, but I do not think he will. |
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Practice Star Player
Joined: 14 Apr 2015 Posts: 4551
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Sadly, he played like a total coward tonight. His passiveness hurt this team tremendously on offense. Especially when his passiveness turned into bad turnovers.
When DLO, Young, Nance, etc are all out, Ingram had to be the one to step up. I thought last game was the game where he finally got the confidence to shoot as much a shot he can. Sadly, he played like he's back to square 1.
Ingram is pissing me off because he has so much talent and skill already and could be scoring 15+ if he was aggressive like DLO, but he flat out just refuses to do anything with the ball 85% of the time when he gets it. He's playing scared.
I know he's a 19 year old kid, but grow a damn backbone. You're a (bleep) good player, act like it. Don't be a Wesley Johnson. |
I think your expectations are out of wack if you want 15+ points. |
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mj32 Starting Rotation
Joined: 07 Jul 2012 Posts: 585
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Sadly, he played like a total coward tonight. His passiveness hurt this team tremendously on offense. Especially when his passiveness turned into bad turnovers.
When DLO, Young, Nance, etc are all out, Ingram had to be the one to step up. I thought last game was the game where he finally got the confidence to shoot as much a shot he can. Sadly, he played like he's back to square 1.
Ingram is pissing me off because he has so much talent and skill already and could be scoring 15+ if he was aggressive like DLO, but he flat out just refuses to do anything with the ball 85% of the time when he gets it. He's playing scared.
I know he's a 19 year old kid, but grow a damn backbone. You're a (bleep) good player, act like it. Don't be a Wesley Johnson. |
DLO wasn't very aggressive in his first couple of months as a rookie |
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Megaton Retired Number
Joined: 18 Feb 2015 Posts: 25624
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Practice wrote: | Megaton wrote: | Sadly, he played like a total coward tonight. His passiveness hurt this team tremendously on offense. Especially when his passiveness turned into bad turnovers.
When DLO, Young, Nance, etc are all out, Ingram had to be the one to step up. I thought last game was the game where he finally got the confidence to shoot as much a shot he can. Sadly, he played like he's back to square 1.
Ingram is pissing me off because he has so much talent and skill already and could be scoring 15+ if he was aggressive like DLO, but he flat out just refuses to do anything with the ball 85% of the time when he gets it. He's playing scared.
I know he's a 19 year old kid, but grow a damn backbone. You're a (bleep) good player, act like it. Don't be a Wesley Johnson. |
I think your expectations are out of wack if you want 15+ points. |
I didn't say I expect 15, I said he could if he wanted too because his skills and talent are already that good. But he plays too damn passive to try. The game before yesterday was a prime example of what he needed to do more of. Yesterday was a big step back offensively. _________________ Darvin Scam: https://media.tenor.com/images/3c15249955860a4b16b59e8ae035fb75/tenor.gif |
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LandsbergerRules Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004 Posts: 11197 Location: The Other Perspective
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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yinoma2001 wrote: | GoldenThroat wrote: | I'm not frustrated about his offensive game, even his aggression level. He's doing what he's capable of at this point in time. That capability's gonna grow over time, but there's no real sense in being upset by it.
Defensively, this kid is unbelievable. People think of a "lock down defender" as someone who defends guys in ISO situations and shuts them down. It happens occasionally, but that's not really how defense works in 2016 the vast majority of the time. Most of the time it's rotations & closeouts, and he's phenomenal at that. Really one of the best 19 year olds I've ever seen in this respect. |
Exactly. |
_________________ "Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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Megaton wrote: | Practice wrote: | Megaton wrote: | Sadly, he played like a total coward tonight. His passiveness hurt this team tremendously on offense. Especially when his passiveness turned into bad turnovers.
When DLO, Young, Nance, etc are all out, Ingram had to be the one to step up. I thought last game was the game where he finally got the confidence to shoot as much a shot he can. Sadly, he played like he's back to square 1.
Ingram is pissing me off because he has so much talent and skill already and could be scoring 15+ if he was aggressive like DLO, but he flat out just refuses to do anything with the ball 85% of the time when he gets it. He's playing scared.
I know he's a 19 year old kid, but grow a damn backbone. You're a (bleep) good player, act like it. Don't be a Wesley Johnson. |
I think your expectations are out of wack if you want 15+ points. |
I didn't say I expect 15, I said he could if he wanted too because his skills and talent are already that good. But he plays too damn passive to try. The game before yesterday was a prime example of what he needed to do more of. Yesterday was a big step back offensively. |
His talent is that good (meaning what he could eventually become), but his skills are nowhere near the point of being capable of averaging 15ppg. |
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17656
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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I predicted 10/4 before the season, I'll stick with that. He would have to average like 10.6 points the rest of the year. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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