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Staccatos
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
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 Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have 7 days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the 7 days after, then they would likely lose Zubac. |
I think you're referring to the moratorium. IIRC it's not 7 days anymore.
And if we're past the moratorium, the period to match is 3 days (or less now). |
Eh, you're right. It's a two day match period now.
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42
| Quote: | | When a restricted free agent wants to sign with another team, the player and team sign an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given two days to match.4 The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years), and a standard NBA contract (not a Two-Way contract). If the player's prior team also submitted a maximum qualifying offer, then the offer sheet must be for at least three seasons (not including option years). If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal within two days (by issuing a First Refusal Exercise Notice), the player is then under contract to his original team, at the principal terms of the offer sheet (but not the non-principal terms). If the player's original team does not exercise its right of first refusal within two days (or provides written notice that it is declining its right of first refusal), the player is deemed to be under contract with the new team. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | Ok, here is a link of this same thread @ early November when we got Tyson.
This thread early november
I think by the comments there the only ones who think that Zu still have some chance was Luke and the FO. All of you just gave up.  |
Gave up? He was a backup defensive liability then and still is. He has always been fine as a 15-20 mpg sub.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Agramer
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Joined: 10 Jul 2016
Posts: 133
Location: Zagreb, Croatia
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakerican wrote: | Ok, here is a link of this same thread @ early November when we got Tyson.
This thread early november
I think by the comments there the only ones who think that Zu still have some chance was Luke and the FO. All of you just gave up. |
Gave up? He was a backup defensive liability then and still is. He has always been fine as a 15-20 mpg sub. |
well then, he is on course to be new Marc Gasol  just reading about Gasol being on trading block and unnamed Eastern team scout talking about him being defensive liability https://www.si.com/nba/2019/01/23/memphis-grizzlies-marc-gasol-mike-conley-testing-trade-market |
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers should pitch him on the ideal of signing a contract to shine with Lebron feeding him endless easy buckets where he could then opt out after 3 years and get paid much more money |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | Ok, here is a link of this same thread @ early November when we got Tyson.
This thread early november
I think by the comments there the only ones who think that Zu still have some chance was Luke and the FO. All of you just gave up. |
Early last season, I was posting my belief in Randle being a star, when a current poster sarcastically showed I didn't know what I was talking about, saying "didn't you say the same about last year about Zubac?"
I strongly believed in and rooted for Zu since day 1. I didn't give up on him when he underperformed. I just chose to withhold my enthusiasm from impatient fans who wouldn't appreciate it. I started a thread inviting opinions about how good various young guys would be, and how good we could expect the team to be if several of them blossomed. I expected Kuz, Hart, Ingram and Ball got mentioned, but I believed in the work Zu put in and reports of his performances overseas. In my mind, the good things/games Zu had in the past were real. His touch around the rim was undeniable. Rebounding and d will improve with strength, and blocks come when guys underestimate his length and determination.
I reject constant "big men are dinosaurs" claims. Zubac is going to be a problem benefiting any coach who knows how to use him (Spurs, for example). Some tried excusing his success as being because of LeBron, just like Mozgov got paid after Cleveland. Zu has proved to be a good player when teammates give him respect and the ball.
I feel strongly about every young Lakers player, some more than others, but Zu, imo, can be an all star when coaches and teammates wake up and realize that efficient scorers should be milked. Imagine 20 shots a game @ 60% + fg's Zu, and 80 + % ft's (Rondo's assists, wide open shots for all, unlimited team success).
He's not as athletic as Wilt, skilled as Kareem, strong as Shaq, or nimble as young Pau. Combinations of his improved aggression, progressive strength and experience, great touch with both hands, and increasingly polished moves, lead me to believe we're witnessing a rising star that every NBA team would want by season's end, barring significant injury. |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Glad Zu is proving the front office right in keeping him over Bryant. Bryant is ballin’ with the Bullets, but Zu is looking very impressive out there. |
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Luminous8
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Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakerican wrote: | Ok, here is a link of this same thread @ early November when we got Tyson.
This thread early november
I think by the comments there the only ones who think that Zu still have some chance was Luke and the FO. All of you just gave up. |
Gave up? He was a backup defensive liability then and still is. He has always been fine as a 15-20 mpg sub. |
I certainly wouldn’t call him a liability. He’s not been bad. |
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tony
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Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 1274
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| One of the bright spots of what has been a disappointing season so far. I thought he was on his way out and absolute trash, but he definitely has showed he has a place in this league. One more year of training and putting on more strength/athleticism and I think he'll be a starter. |
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markjay
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Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 3921
Location: O.C.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have *2* days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the *2* days after, then they would likely lose Zubac.
EDIT: changed match period from 7 days to 2 days based on NBA CBA |
The match period is two days, but does it start at the same time as free agency? Or do teams have to wait a period of time after free agency begins (5 days?) to give an offer sheet. |
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lakersfan8
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Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| It is funny to see he might have a brighter future than okafor |
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Yong
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Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 9024
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | It is funny to see he might have a brighter future than okafor |
Possibly even Porzingis, if Porzingod continues to be haunted by injuries. |
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LakersRGolden
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7922
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| markjay wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have *2* days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the *2* days after, then they would likely lose Zubac.
EDIT: changed match period from 7 days to 2 days based on NBA CBA |
The match period is two days, but does it start at the same time as free agency? Or do teams have to wait a period of time after free agency begins (5 days?) to give an offer sheet. |
Can't sign the sheet to start the clock until everyone can sign contracts. So it's after the talking only phase is over. |
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MickMgl
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | Ok, here is a link of this same thread @ early November when we got Tyson.
This thread early november
I think by the comments there the only ones who think that Zu still have some chance was Luke and the FO. All of you just gave up. |
I gave up on Zu's chances with the Lakers. I did not give up on Zu. I gave up on LG for the time being. But all of my Zubac posts from way back have been positive. What he showed through long stretches of his first two seasons was not an illusion, in spite of the fact that there were also stretches when he was having trouble finding his way in the Lakers' offense.
At this point, he's one of the two Laker youths ("utes") I'd least want to part with.
Kuzma
Zubac
Hart
Ball
Ingram
In that order. |
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MickMgl
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Joined: 07 Jan 2013
Posts: 1987
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | Just missing some of the mid-range game he showed in his first season. If he can get it back and expand it to the 3pt line, it would be huge for spacing. I hope he focus on that during off season. |
I find this attitude exhausting.
"Here's a strong 7-footer who rebounds, blocks shots, has a soft touch around the basket, is your best free throw shooter (!), runs the floor decently well... "
"Yeah, but can he shoot 3-pointers?"
If he NEVER shoots another 3-pointer in the NBA, his long-term value will still have been established. It won't make him significantly more valuable. Coach to the skills your players DO have. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it was Stu who has said this a couple times, but apparently Tyson has been attached at the hip with Zu since joining the team. Beyond being a very experienced veteran, Chandler has had some good experience in a mentor role in Phoenix. I wonder if that has been a major factor in Zu's resurgence. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | | markjay wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have *2* days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the *2* days after, then they would likely lose Zubac.
EDIT: changed match period from 7 days to 2 days based on NBA CBA |
The match period is two days, but does it start at the same time as free agency? Or do teams have to wait a period of time after free agency begins (5 days?) to give an offer sheet. |
Can't sign the sheet to start the clock until everyone can sign contracts. So it's after the talking only phase is over. |
Unless it is a RFA offer, they can negotiate and sign during the moratorium and the clock starts at 9 pm PST.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Staccatos
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
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| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | | markjay wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have *2* days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the *2* days after, then they would likely lose Zubac.
EDIT: changed match period from 7 days to 2 days based on NBA CBA |
The match period is two days, but does it start at the same time as free agency? Or do teams have to wait a period of time after free agency begins (5 days?) to give an offer sheet. |
Can't sign the sheet to start the clock until everyone can sign contracts. So it's after the talking only phase is over. |
Unless it is a RFA offer, they can negotiate and sign during the moratorium and the clock starts at 9 pm PST. |
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42
"An offer sheet can be signed during the July Moratorium (see question number 105), however the two-day matching period does not commence until the end of the Moratorium." |
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AirKobe8
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Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8586
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I don't see him getting huge offers from other teams. The last offseasons have been though on Centers, and this one once again has many of them available (even though there's also a cap raise).
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Fan site made by me and others, dedicated to posting Laker news and articles in portuguese. |
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Yellow
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2018
Posts: 265
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 3:42 am Post subject: |
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Zu has the best defensive rating on the team among players who have played 300+ minutes.
| MickMgl wrote: | | Eindhoven wrote: | | Just missing some of the mid-range game he showed in his first season. If he can get it back and expand it to the 3pt line, it would be huge for spacing. I hope he focus on that during off season. |
I find this attitude exhausting.
"Here's a strong 7-footer who rebounds, blocks shots, has a soft touch around the basket, is your best free throw shooter (!), runs the floor decently well... "
"Yeah, but can he shoot 3-pointers?"
If he NEVER shoots another 3-pointer in the NBA, his long-term value will still have been established. It won't make him significantly more valuable. Coach to the skills your players DO have. |
Yes, it will. The value of a floor-stretching five is well established. On this team in particular, it would make a huge difference. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:02 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | I think it was Stu who has said this a couple times, but apparently Tyson has been attached at the hip with Zu since joining the team. Beyond being a very experienced veteran, Chandler has had some good experience in a mentor role in Phoenix. I wonder if that has been a major factor in Zu's resurgence. |
I've noticed it before I ever heard reports that it's actually happened. I can tell by the way he dunks aggressively now. He hangs on the rim and pulls himself upward instead of the timid dunks he used to do. It's as if it's intentionally done to intimidate people into getting out of the way next time he goes up. His dunks resemble Chandler's. Zu moves more aggressively on defense then he has before. Nothing about the way he moves now gives the impression that he's a defensive liability, even if he's not a lock-down defender. His screens are solid and give the ball handler a great chance to create a mismatch. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| Staccatos wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | LakersRGolden wrote: | | markjay wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have *2* days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the *2* days after, then they would likely lose Zubac.
EDIT: changed match period from 7 days to 2 days based on NBA CBA |
The match period is two days, but does it start at the same time as free agency? Or do teams have to wait a period of time after free agency begins (5 days?) to give an offer sheet. |
Can't sign the sheet to start the clock until everyone can sign contracts. So it's after the talking only phase is over. |
Unless it is a RFA offer, they can negotiate and sign during the moratorium and the clock starts at 9 pm PST. |
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q42
"An offer sheet can be signed during the July Moratorium (see question number 105), however the two-day matching period does not commence until the end of the Moratorium." |
Yeah, what I said.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Luminous8
Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017
Posts: 2192
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:01 am Post subject: |
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| MickMgl wrote: | | lakerican wrote: | Ok, here is a link of this same thread @ early November when we got Tyson.
This thread early november
I think by the comments there the only ones who think that Zu still have some chance was Luke and the FO. All of you just gave up. |
I gave up on Zu's chances with the Lakers. I did not give up on Zu. I gave up on LG for the time being. But all of my Zubac posts from way back have been positive. What he showed through long stretches of his first two seasons was not an illusion, in spite of the fact that there were also stretches when he was having trouble finding his way in the Lakers' offense.
At this point, he's one of the two Laker youths ("utes") I'd least want to part with.
Kuzma
Zubac
Hart
Ball
Ingram
In that order. |
Can someone on here PLEASE explain the continued fascination with Hart at this point? |
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LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16137
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:05 am Post subject: |
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| Staccatos wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | If someone offers Zubac a contract right at the start of free agency, we can't match right?
Unless we get a commitment from a max free agent right at the start of free agency as well. But usually, those free agents take their time in deciding. |
Zubac would have to sign the offer then as a RFA, the Lakers would have *2* days to match or let him go.
If you negotiate this right, Zubac listens to offers uses the numbers to come back to the Lakers but doesn't sign any offer sheets. This gives the Lakers time to wrap up their free agency and sign Zubac over the cap afterwards.
Signing an offer sheet would put the Lakers on the clock, if they can't lock down their main free agent targets in the *2* days after, then they would likely lose Zubac.
EDIT: changed match period from 7 days to 2 days based on NBA CBA |
How would this actually work in the real world? Is it based on the honor system?
How can Lakers be sure Zubac's agent doesn't fabricate/exaggerate offers?
I mean, I'm sure this happens all the time in negotiations. This is how teams end up bidding against themselves.
Teams won't be willing to give you their final numbers unless you commit to them. It doesn't make sense for other teams to give Zubac a number that he can then take back to the Lakers with.
During negotiations, they'd use language like "if we were willing to go 5 yrs $40M, would your client be willing to commit?"
Then, Zubac's agent can come back to the Lakers and it's up to him how to interpret the negotiations. He could say, I think they were willing to go as high as 6 yrs $70M. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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Joined: 23 May 2013
Posts: 8860
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| if Zu can improve his mobility/agility by lose some fat and develop a decent mid-range jumper, this guy can be our starting center for years to come. |
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HAL 9000
Sixth Man
Joined: 12 Oct 2017
Posts: 53
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Zu has had to fight and claw, unfairly IMO, to get to were he is now, as a possible star on this team. His shooting technique and playing style, with his arms always up, reminds me of Mchale.
He is only 21 and has had very little opportunity to play significant minutes to gain experience until recently. No wonder he has been a little inconsistent. But out of all the young talent he's been the most consistent.
Shame on Luke for keeping this undeniable talent from us.
Got to keep him. Do it Mitch. |
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