I only see the highlight videos of Zubac and of course it only shows the made baskets, but does anyone else see or think, wow, at least on offense this kid is really gifted. He has such a soft touch around the basket (right and left handed) and he can make the outside shots. Plus he's really working on that hook shot.
You would think that Luke and his staff could teach him the fundamentals of defense.
That's what coaches in the Pros do, right? Teach fundamentals? I ask that as a question because it seem like so many players nowadays (Randle for example) somehow get to the pros without having learned a lot of basic fundamentals of offense and defense.
I keep thinking of a coach like Byron Scott who apparently didn't teach his young players anything.
I hope the Lakers don't package Zubac in a trade.
btw, they should have traded Bynum and kept Gasol.
You go small when u have the skill set. Randle doesn't know ABC's of basic defense, let alone play center and wipe out guard defensw
And you think that the way to correct that is to not ever let him play small ball defense?
The way to counter small ball is to play a dominant big. Give me Shaq, Mourning or Kareem and let the opponents go small. What a dream that would be.
I'm just dreaming that Zubac will eventually be close enough to that level.
If we had Shaq, we are likely not going to put him on the bench and play small ball.
I think the key here is .... if you have a competitive advantage playing one way, then you should play that way. It doesn't make sense to play "big ball" with bigs that aren't giving you an advantage out on the court. So if the players you have don't allow you to actually play big man ball, then go small, sacrifice what going small means, but take advantage of what going small can give you.
I thought we played small ball more effectively earlier in the system when we were all healthy. Right now, any kind of ball is a flat out joke.
I only see the highlight videos of Zubac and of course it only shows the made baskets, but does anyone else see or think, wow, at least on offense this kid is really gifted. He has such a soft touch around the basket (right and left handed) and he can make the outside shots. Plus he's really working on that hook shot.
You would think that Luke and his staff could teach him the fundamentals of defense.
That's what coaches in the Pros do, right? Teach fundamentals? I ask that as a question because it seem like so many players nowadays (Randle for example) somehow get to the pros without having learned a lot of basic fundamentals of offense and defense.
I keep thinking of a coach like Byron Scott who apparently didn't teach his young players anything.
I hope the Lakers don't package Zubac in a trade.
btw, they should have traded Bynum and kept Gasol.
Julius is the epitome of the AAU child. All talent, little to no fundamentals.
Zu is very skilled. He'll be a solid starting center one day
I only see the highlight videos of Zubac and of course it only shows the made baskets, but does anyone else see or think, wow, at least on offense this kid is really gifted. He has such a soft touch around the basket (right and left handed) and he can make the outside shots. Plus he's really working on that hook shot.
You would think that Luke and his staff could teach him the fundamentals of defense.
That's what coaches in the Pros do, right? Teach fundamentals? I ask that as a question because it seem like so many players nowadays (Randle for example) somehow get to the pros without having learned a lot of basic fundamentals of offense and defense.
I keep thinking of a coach like Byron Scott who apparently didn't teach his young players anything.
I hope the Lakers don't package Zubac in a trade.
btw, they should have traded Bynum and kept Gasol.
No, they shouldn't have. Not at that point in their careers, Bynum was about to take off and those knee injuries not happening he would have likely been the star people hoped he would.
Hindsight is usually correct but not in that case if you remember just how good Bynum was back then before the first injury and even after it, it was after the 2nd injury where he wasn't as defensive as he had been prior. But even on one leg he became an all-star so, again, Marc Gasol may have been the choice to stay with had we LOST Kobe. But Bynum took the 'ship his (bleep) out comment and motivated himself with it and had a break out season before the injury, and we got Pau Gasol in the aftermath of that. Bynum was also solid defensively, especially before the first injury, and he still was after the first injury but a little less so, and then a step down after his second. Unfortunate.
So we couldn't have traded Bynum for Pau anyway, he was hurt. Which is why we went after Pau in the first place.
Last edited by MJST on Fri Dec 09, 2016 8:46 am; edited 1 time in total
If bynum never got injured he would right now be one of the most dominant forces in the league
Think anthony davis but better
The entire league and the movement the league is going in would have been different. Teams would probably still head in the direction of faster pace with emphasis on the three ball but also on making sure you have a big in order to stop bynum
Let's not forget Bynum is only 29 now! If he never got injured he would have been in the running for best player in the league. Unstoppable in the post, knocking down threes, completely locking down the paint on defense, etc _________________ Kobe
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144474 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:34 am Post subject:
s_habe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Jim99187 wrote:
You go small when u have the skill set. Randle doesn't know ABC's of basic defense, let alone play center and wipe out guard defensw
And you think that the way to correct that is to not ever let him play small ball defense?
The way to counter small ball is to play a dominant big. Give me Shaq, Mourning or Kareem and let the opponents go small. What a dream that would be.
I'm just dreaming that Zubac will eventually be close enough to that level.
As old as they are they would be run off the court. Seriously, there are no Shq, Mourning or Kareems in the NBA, that is why small ball works. But similar to other sports, changes are typically coaching related. Take the NFL for example, we have RBs who are the size that linemen were a couple of decades ago but the game is passing, not running. That is because coaches can scheme against the run. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
This is the kid during his rookie season. That's crazy. Developing post game, decent to good rim protection, developing passing game, developing perimeter shooting.
I'm really excited to see these young Laker players develop.. but I absolutely cannot wait until a couple of seasons from now. I think in about two seasons from now everything with this core is going to come together and be beautiful to watch. In two years.. this team will probably be a star player away from being really, really good.
Small ball is such an annoying and inaccurate term. When one team has 5 players on the floor who can run and have range, regardless of size, if the other team puts a slow big guy out there, they're going to get killed.
As for the comments on Bynum, some folks here have very short memories. He was great when he felt like it, but there were plenty of times when he didn't feel like it and unlike Shaq, when he wasn't going 100% he really wasn't all that effective on either side of the ball.
Joined: 24 Sep 2001 Posts: 8188 Location: Eagle Rock
Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 11:42 am Post subject:
ch3cky0selff00 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIVh6j7ZzEk
This is the kid during his rookie season. That's crazy. Developing post game, decent to good rim protection, developing passing game, developing perimeter shooting.
I'm really excited to see these young Laker players develop.. but I absolutely cannot wait until a couple of seasons from now. I think in about two seasons from now everything with this core is going to come together and be beautiful to watch. In two years.. this team will probably be a star player away from being really, really good.
I am a big fan of the big Z as well. While not a jump out of the building athlete, he is very fast for his size. He runs the floor very well and that will be important on this team. _________________ R.I.P. Doc Buss
Let's be frank here, Bynum was just 20 years old when his breakout season was starting
In November it started with him averaging 11/11 with 1.5 Blocks a game on 59% shooting
In December it had grown to 14/9/2 with 2.7 Blocks a game on 66% shooting
By January it had ballooned up to 17/12/3 with 2.3 Blocks a game on 70% shooting! The Memphis game he went down in he already had 10/9/3 on 71% shooting before he got hurt.
The kid was on his way to being something special on both sides of the floor.
Consider the fact he was doing this at 20 as the secondary scorer in the offense.
Bynum was on the verge of being something truly special. The first injury derailed that some, but when he came back he looked more or less like himself but one significant change was his blocks were down.
He also was adjusting to playing with Gasol and getting back into the groove of things after injury, however by January, he had turned it around and in January was averaging 17/8 with 2 blocks a game on 58% shooting. Then... he got hurt again, 5 minutes into the Memphis game. yet again.
He came back at the end of the year though but he wasn't the same.
The entire next season was predicated by those knee issues as they had to keep changing minutes for him as they would flare up throughout the season and he never found consistency because of it.
October(35 MPG) 20/12 but blocks were down to 0.5
November(35 MPG) 18/10 and blocks up to 2.2 Blocks per game
Then December time dropped to 27 MPG due to injury flare ups and his numbers dropped to 11/6
January his numbers increased to 33 MPG again and numbers went up to 17/8
February dropped back down to 26 MPG and averages dropped to 12/8
You get the picture.
After playing through it all year he was shut down mid March till the beginning of April across their last 13 games of the season and was back in the playoffs, but again, wasn't himself.
The next season STARTED with him needing surgery again on his knees and he missed the first portion of the season, and played low minutes that season, so again it went by the wayside.
After that he had his first relatively healthy season since 2007, and became an all-star.
yeah if not for the first and then the SECOND injury, Bynum likely would have been the best center in the game. Especially considering the drop off of Dwight after 2011 due to his own injuries. From 2012-2016 Bynum from 24-29 would have been the best center in the league and we'd have had him through it all. Would have been a lot easier to go after the LeBron's and the Carmelo's if we have a healthy Kobe and prime Bynum whom is the best center in the game on the same team with cap space.
But I digress. The "what if Andrew Bynum never got hurt" storyline is a topic in and of itself for another day.
Let's be frank here, Bynum was just 20 years old when his breakout season was starting
In November it started with him averaging 11/11 with 1.5 Blocks a game on 59% shooting
In December it had grown to 14/9/2 with 2.7 Blocks a game on 66% shooting
By January it had ballooned up to 17/12/3 with 2.3 Blocks a game on 70% shooting! The Memphis game he went down in he already had 10/9/3 on 71% shooting before he got hurt.
The kid was on his way to being something special on both sides of the floor.
Consider the fact he was doing this at 20 as the secondary scorer in the offense.
Bynum was on the verge of being something truly special. The first injury derailed that some, but when he came back he looked more or less like himself but one significant change was his blocks were down.
He also was adjusting to playing with Gasol and getting back into the groove of things after injury, however by January, he had turned it around and in January was averaging 17/8 with 2 blocks a game on 58% shooting. Then... he got hurt again, 5 minutes into the Memphis game. yet again.
He came back at the end of the year though but he wasn't the same.
The entire next season was predicated by those knee issues as they had to keep changing minutes for him as they would flare up throughout the season and he never found consistency because of it.
October(35 MPG) 20/12 but blocks were down to 0.5
November(35 MPG) 18/10 and blocks up to 2.2 Blocks per game
Then December time dropped to 27 MPG due to injury flare ups and his numbers dropped to 11/6
January his numbers increased to 33 MPG again and numbers went up to 17/8
February dropped back down to 26 MPG and averages dropped to 12/8
You get the picture.
After playing through it all year he was shut down mid March till the beginning of April across their last 13 games of the season and was back in the playoffs, but again, wasn't himself.
The next season STARTED with him needing surgery again on his knees and he missed the first portion of the season, and played low minutes that season, so again it went by the wayside.
After that he had his first relatively healthy season since 2007, and became an all-star.
yeah if not for the first and then the SECOND injury, Bynum likely would have been the best center in the game. Especially considering the drop off of Dwight after 2011 due to his own injuries. From 2012-2016 Bynum from 24-29 would have been the best center in the league and we'd have had him through it all. Would have been a lot easier to go after the LeBron's and the Carmelo's if we have a healthy Kobe and prime Bynum whom is the best center in the game on the same team with cap space.
But I digress. The "what if Andrew Bynum never got hurt" storyline is a topic in and of itself for another day.
True, he was on his way to becoming a great center, but boy did he become a headcase later on. What the heck happened to him mentally? He used to be all smart, like into computers and physics, etc....then he got into all these freaky hairstyles and becoming a nut.
Let's be frank here, Bynum was just 20 years old when his breakout season was starting
In November it started with him averaging 11/11 with 1.5 Blocks a game on 59% shooting
In December it had grown to 14/9/2 with 2.7 Blocks a game on 66% shooting
By January it had ballooned up to 17/12/3 with 2.3 Blocks a game on 70% shooting! The Memphis game he went down in he already had 10/9/3 on 71% shooting before he got hurt.
The kid was on his way to being something special on both sides of the floor.
Consider the fact he was doing this at 20 as the secondary scorer in the offense.
Bynum was on the verge of being something truly special. The first injury derailed that some, but when he came back he looked more or less like himself but one significant change was his blocks were down.
He also was adjusting to playing with Gasol and getting back into the groove of things after injury, however by January, he had turned it around and in January was averaging 17/8 with 2 blocks a game on 58% shooting. Then... he got hurt again, 5 minutes into the Memphis game. yet again.
He came back at the end of the year though but he wasn't the same.
The entire next season was predicated by those knee issues as they had to keep changing minutes for him as they would flare up throughout the season and he never found consistency because of it.
October(35 MPG) 20/12 but blocks were down to 0.5
November(35 MPG) 18/10 and blocks up to 2.2 Blocks per game
Then December time dropped to 27 MPG due to injury flare ups and his numbers dropped to 11/6
January his numbers increased to 33 MPG again and numbers went up to 17/8
February dropped back down to 26 MPG and averages dropped to 12/8
You get the picture.
After playing through it all year he was shut down mid March till the beginning of April across their last 13 games of the season and was back in the playoffs, but again, wasn't himself.
The next season STARTED with him needing surgery again on his knees and he missed the first portion of the season, and played low minutes that season, so again it went by the wayside.
After that he had his first relatively healthy season since 2007, and became an all-star.
yeah if not for the first and then the SECOND injury, Bynum likely would have been the best center in the game. Especially considering the drop off of Dwight after 2011 due to his own injuries. From 2012-2016 Bynum from 24-29 would have been the best center in the league and we'd have had him through it all. Would have been a lot easier to go after the LeBron's and the Carmelo's if we have a healthy Kobe and prime Bynum whom is the best center in the game on the same team with cap space.
But I digress. The "what if Andrew Bynum never got hurt" storyline is a topic in and of itself for another day.
True, he was on his way to becoming a great center, but boy did he become a headcase later on. What the heck happened to him mentally? He used to be all smart, like into computers and physics, etc....then he got into all these freaky hairstyles and becoming a nut.
freaky hairstyles didn't happen till he was sidelined all the time in Philly. But just ask Okafor what being with the 76ers does to you X_X
But when it comes down to it, for as much as people tried to say Bynum didn't have a passion for basketball, he returned after two devastating knee injuries to become an all-star and despite his body constantly shutting down on him and his knees constantly betraying him afterwards he was still working hard and working out trying to get on NBA teams.
Worked hard on the Pacers, to the point their coach and Bird said he was better than Hibbert(which in turn ruined Roy's confidence) but knees betrayed him. Went to the Cavs and his knees betrayed him, though the drama that happened there was on Kyrie. People forget that tidbit.
But ultimately, his knees betrayed him far before his love or questioned love of the game did. Regardless of his mentality in terms of that big chip he carried on his shoulders, that was one of the things that caused Kobe to gain that respect he got for him, to the point he trusted him in that Celtics game to take the game winner after Brown drew the play up for Kobe. Anyone remember that? Mike Brown drew the play for Kobe, and Kobe pulled Bynum aside and said "forget that, I'm going straight to you." That's KOBE...
So yeah, there's little doubt in my mind without those injuries we'd have had the best center in the league from 2011-2016 which would have been his prime years.
He essentially was, what a game changing center nowadays would be.
7 foot, athletic, 7 foot 6 Wingspan, 260 pounds lean. Mid range, capable mid range shooter, could run pick and rolls with guards and other bigs and post game like Okafor's
yeah.. (also want Ingram to have that kind of moment where he answers back on another player like Bynum did to Shaq at the start).
But yeah, everything you'd want in a center, Bynum was, if not for the injuries we'd have a significant advantage as he'd still be a Laker and the fact he'd still ONLY be 29 in 2016 is mindblowing. He'd still be in his prime or about 2 years away from it ending.
But sadly, it wasn't meant to be.
But if any 7 foot, 7 foot 6 wingspan center with a mid range, free throws, defense, athleticism 260 pound center with the ability to post up and pick and roll was in the draft this year, they'd be the number 1 pick and ANY team would covet it.
Because despite the 'small ball' era, a dominant post center whom could ALSO play defense and stretch to mid would switch ideology back to big men IF they found themselves with a good team.
Heck.. just imagine a healthy 29 year old Bynum as the center with our CURRENT roster and coaching staff. Yeah...
But to steer the topic back to Zubac. I think his ceiling is 2007-2008 Chris Kaman.
His "exceeding all expectations OMG!" ceiling is of course Marc Gasol. But I think the one where I'd put as his ceiling currently is 07-08 Chris Kaman. Which I think we'd all be happy with (16/13/2 and 3blks on 48%)
Though I don't think his rebounding will be that high. Not unless he gains some explosiveness over the years.
Dude is legit hitting 3s. like one per game. nuts
He has a crapload of potential, his insticts/timing on block shots is amaaazzing. He runs the floor so well. Above average touch down low, and shooting potential. As well as passing potential.
If he can just can a tadddd more athleticism, and continue the skill development. He can be a top 5 Center.
But to steer the topic back to Zubac. I think his ceiling is 2007-2008 Chris Kaman.
His "exceeding all expectations OMG!" ceiling is of course Marc Gasol. But I think the one where I'd put as his ceiling currently is 07-08 Chris Kaman. Which I think we'd all be happy with (16/13/2 and 3blks on 48%)
Though I don't think his rebounding will be that high. Not unless he gains some explosiveness over the years.
Kaman overcame his T-Rex wingspan to become an effective shotblocker in his prime, but I think Zubac with his 7'4 wingspan will be a much more intimidating rim protector and more efficient scorer against length than Kaman. Plus his 3pt shot looks like it will be legit, which is a skill Kaman was never asked to develop.
But to steer the topic back to Zubac. I think his ceiling is 2007-2008 Chris Kaman.
His "exceeding all expectations OMG!" ceiling is of course Marc Gasol. But I think the one where I'd put as his ceiling currently is 07-08 Chris Kaman. Which I think we'd all be happy with (16/13/2 and 3blks on 48%)
Though I don't think his rebounding will be that high. Not unless he gains some explosiveness over the years.
His biggest problem with rebounding is that he just doesn't move to get a rebound.
I've watched all his D-league games and he literally stands in one place with his hands about halfway up and seems to hope that the rebound will come to him. If he'd get hands up and move after rebounds like TT or even TRob, Zu would get a lot more of them.
He doesn't really even go after rebounds that are only 4' from where he's standing.
it's fairly annoying to watch. someone needs to be showing him a video of what he's doing and than what TT does and make him go after them.
with his height, he should be getting a lot more rebounds - he's very very passive when it comes to chasing rebounds _________________ LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI
someone needs to be showing him a video of what he's doing and than what TT does and make him go after them.
with his height, he should be getting a lot more rebounds - he's very very passive when it comes to chasing rebounds
it's also something someone needs to show him soon. the earlier he becomes aware of it the more he can improve it _________________ Kobe
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