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governator
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Very pleased with his development.
I think the DLeague was a necessary step for him to get playing time and adjust to American style basketball.
Zub goals:
This year: get a steady 10-12 mpg by the end of this season
next year: be the primary backup center, average 18-20 mpg (since Moz will probably play around the same).
3rd year: starting center. |
Trade Black (has more trade value) and keep TR (cheaper) |
Blacks' 2nd year of 6m or so is non-guaranteed, so I always thought he was a cap filler for a year. I wouldn't hate that at all. I'd see what Lou/Black could fetch on the market. |
Wish we can lock up T-Black long term as Zu's future back up |
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Yong
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Very pleased with his development.
I think the DLeague was a necessary step for him to get playing time and adjust to American style basketball.
Zub goals:
This year: get a steady 10-12 mpg by the end of this season
next year: be the primary backup center, average 18-20 mpg (since Moz will probably play around the same).
3rd year: starting center. |
Trade Black (has more trade value) and keep TR (cheaper) |
Blacks' 2nd year of 6m or so is non-guaranteed, so I always thought he was a cap filler for a year. I wouldn't hate that at all. I'd see what Lou/Black could fetch on the market. |
Wish we can lock up T-Black long term as Zu's future back up |
We have locked up Mozgov long term as Zu's future back up. He is with us for 3 more years after this. Can you believe that? |
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i'm not worthy
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Zubac is my own personal savior! He is rescuing me from my purple and gold depression as of late. |
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Drifts
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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Zubac looks good on offense... he needs to get better on the defensive end. especially grabbing defensive rebounds.
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67ShelbyGT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: | | tox wrote: | | 67ShelbyGT wrote: | Developing much sooner than expected. His defensive positioning needs work (like most 19yo) but his effort was very good. Showed some flash of young Marc Gasol.
We can slow shop Mozgov from now to summer. Hell if we get someone to bite, Zu + Black can hold it down for this season even. Mozgov is a nice insurance to bring Zu in slowly. Serviceable centers will always have some demand, Deng otoh... |
You are quite the optimist  |
The Marc Gasol part? Haha yeah thats why I prefaced it with "flash". No where near yet. Neither is the fastest center but Zubac had a presence on D and his passing on O was what reminded me of Marc. Still far but like what I'm seeing. |
Nah, I see that comp a bit. I meant what you think Mozgov's trade value is. |
Not that optimistic, its just that we have some time to shop him thats all. This summer it'll be more manageable 3yr contract. Hopefully a playoff team or young team on the cusp like Bucks or Blazers bite. I didnt like the Moz signing in the summer, 18M was overpay, but not many serviceable centers in NBA.
Moz didnt have great body language last night either. I didnt see the bottle toss but clear attitude diff between Moz and MWP/Calderon during the rally. |
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999
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| can we bench Mozgov now |
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pio2u
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Mike Trudell: Denver coach Mike Malone stopped Ivica Zubac on the way out of the arena to say how impressed he was, and to keep it up.
– via Twitter LakersReporter |
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AY2043
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: | | Zubac looks good on offense... he needs to get better on the defensive end. especially grabbing defensive rebounds. |
He got worked by Jokic a couple times on the glass yesterday, but he still ended up with 13 boards in 26 minutes IIRC. Also obviously needs to get quicker both getting over as a helper and in the pick n roll. But that said, he provided more rim protection last night alone than Mozgov does in 2 weeks worth of games. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | Quote: | Mike Trudell: Denver coach Mike Malone stopped Ivica Zubac on the way out of the arena to say how impressed he was, and to keep it up.
– via Twitter LakersReporter |
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Reward him with a start, Luke! |
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Laker's Fan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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One of the reasons Zu has been successful is that LA is developing him the right way, allowing him to take manageable sized bites where he can either succeed or learn from his mistakes. Its the Spurs model. Incremental increases as he proves he can consistently perform and meet expectations is the way to go. Avoids the Peter principle while he's still learning.
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | One of the reasons Zu has been successful is that LA is developing him the right way, allowing him to take manageable sized bites where he can either succeed or learn from his mistakes. Its the Spurs model. Incremental increases as he proves he can consistently perform and meet expectations is the way to go. Avoids the Peter principle while he's still learning. |
This is the way I believe every prospect should be developed no matter his draft position. I was completely nonsense starting Russell from day one last season when he clearly wasn't ready to play more than a dozen of minutes per game. You try to speed up the development giving more minutes, but I believe it can be detrimental allowing the young player to establish bad habits. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:38 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
practice/scrimmage and full officiated game are different |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
practice/scrimmage and full officiated game are different |
Make no mistake here: a fully officiated d-league game plays the same as a rec league pick-up game and Vander Blue calls his own fouls... on every shot.
Last edited by KindCrippler2000 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:42 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
I know you were assertive that there was no way Zub was going to play with the DLeague, so i'll take post in that context.
But I disagree. I think actually playing games and adapting real-time against inferior, albeit American style basketball did wonders for him. The game was way too fast for him at the beginning of the year and it showed.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
I know you were assertive that there was no way Zub was going to play with the DLeague, so i'll take post in that context.
But I disagree. I think actually playing games and adapting real-time against inferior, albeit American style basketball did wonders for him. The game was way too fast for him at the beginning of the year and it showed. |
I've always said it was better to stash him than park him in the d-league (see Saric's progression). The only problem with that was he wouldn't be around to scrimmage/lift with the team. Obviously, the latter has done wonders for his game.
FWIW, they run 16 second shot clocks in scrimmages and do have officials on deck |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
I know you were assertive that there was no way Zub was going to play with the DLeague, so i'll take post in that context.
But I disagree. I think actually playing games and adapting real-time against inferior, albeit American style basketball did wonders for him. The game was way too fast for him at the beginning of the year and it showed. |
I've always said it was better to stash him than park him in the d-league (see Saric's progression). The only problem with that was he wouldn't be around to scrimmage/lift with the team. Obviously, the latter has done wonders for his game.
FWIW, they run 16 second shot clocks in scrimmages and do have officials on deck |
Not sure why you are up in arms about this. Zubac has progressed and will likely start getting steady rotation minutes.
Saric had a clearer path to playing this year due to Simmons injury (and he's 22 turning 23 in April so he's much older than Zub). Not a good comparison.
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
I know you were assertive that there was no way Zub was going to play with the DLeague, so i'll take post in that context.
But I disagree. I think actually playing games and adapting real-time against inferior, albeit American style basketball did wonders for him. The game was way too fast for him at the beginning of the year and it showed. |
I've always said it was better to stash him than park him in the d-league (see Saric's progression). The only problem with that was he wouldn't be around to scrimmage/lift with the team. Obviously, the latter has done wonders for his game.
FWIW, they run 16 second shot clocks in scrimmages and do have officials on deck |
Not sure why you are up in arms about this. Zubac has progressed and will likely start getting steady rotation minutes.
Saric had a clearer path to playing this year due to Simmons injury (and he's 22 turning 23 in April so he's much older than Zub). Not a good comparison. |
1) If we're not including his conditioning/strength issues, I've always felt he could contribute on the team if he fixed some of his positional issues. The most concerning part to me is how Tarik Black had to suffer an ankle sprain for him to see time. IMO, it was a matter of Luke breaking him into the rotation. If you watched the d-league games, you'd know why it was of little benefit to him. I'm very critical of the d-league because the best players have difficulty translating their style of play to the NBA. It's not too often that 19 year olds complain about touches: http://lakeshowlife.com/2016/12/09/lakers-ivica-zubac-wants-ball-hands-d-fenders-oblige/
2) Saric played against more sophisticated comp in Europe. That's the prime difference and they don't have many shot jackers there. |
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
I know you were assertive that there was no way Zub was going to play with the DLeague, so i'll take post in that context.
But I disagree. I think actually playing games and adapting real-time against inferior, albeit American style basketball did wonders for him. The game was way too fast for him at the beginning of the year and it showed. |
I've always said it was better to stash him than park him in the d-league (see Saric's progression). The only problem with that was he wouldn't be around to scrimmage/lift with the team. Obviously, the latter has done wonders for his game.
FWIW, they run 16 second shot clocks in scrimmages and do have officials on deck |
One small problem with stashing him would have been that the Lakers wouldn't have had him in the first place. He didn't want to be stashed, which is why he fell to the Lakers in the first place.
Also, scrimmages are just that - scrimmages. 16 second shot clock or not, refs or not, it is not a real game. It is nowhere close to a real game. |
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LakerDYnasty72
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: |
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Zu's recent performance is no surprise for those of us who saw this kid in the summer league. The argument was "well that's against summer league competition". Well, we already knew that, but we also knew that talent is talent, and he obviously had talent: a really nice soft touch, long, and good timing blocking shots.
It was so apparent that all he needed was experience, grow into his body, and tone up the body he does have. Don't know if he let it slip accidentally or not, but Assist. Coach Shaw stated that we had him at #16 on the board. The Lakers have been outstanding in their past few draft evaluations, and its evident they've done it again.
I'm truly excited about future, notwithstanding the onerous contracts given to Moz & Deng. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I'm so glad the Lakers gave him an extended run with the DLeague. It really helped him getting playing time, and acclimated to the speed of the American game/athletes. It's paying off big time. |
Eh, he's been scrimmaging with the main dudes in practice every day (see footage on Lakersnation). Going up against Mozgov, Black, TRob is infinitely better than the midgets he was scoring against in the d-league, and the d-league games were worth turning off because they didn't know how to throw a proper post entry pass to him. It was guys like Blue and Wear just chucking threes while he'd fight for scraps. Conditioning-wise, he wasn't ready and he has ways to go in the strength department. It took a Tarik Black ankle sprain for Zubac to see PT. They would have parked him in the d-league or bench if he didn't "demonstrate" his ability vs Drummond, but now it's magically a "surprise" that he's playing like this? |
I know you were assertive that there was no way Zub was going to play with the DLeague, so i'll take post in that context.
But I disagree. I think actually playing games and adapting real-time against inferior, albeit American style basketball did wonders for him. The game was way too fast for him at the beginning of the year and it showed. |
I've always said it was better to stash him than park him in the d-league (see Saric's progression). The only problem with that was he wouldn't be around to scrimmage/lift with the team. Obviously, the latter has done wonders for his game.
FWIW, they run 16 second shot clocks in scrimmages and do have officials on deck |
One small problem with stashing him would have been that the Lakers wouldn't have had him in the first place. He didn't want to be stashed, which is why he fell to the Lakers in the first place.
Also, scrimmages are just that - scrimmages. 16 second shot clock or not, refs or not, it is not a real game. It is nowhere close to a real game. |
1) It was a hypothetical. I'm very much aware he didn't want to be stashed.
2) To your latter point - and d-league numbers aren't inflated? How can guys like AB, McRae, Blue can score 30+ points a game but fail to make NBA rotations? Would their games not benefit more by being around NBA ball clubs?
Last edited by KindCrippler2000 on Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Why are we still upset he played in the DLeague? He hasn't complained about it and he looks worlds better in terms of matching NBA speed now.
It's worked out just fine. Plenty of Lakers players have played DLeague not as a demotion or reflection of their value as a player. With Moz/Black/small ball Cs there just wasn't enough PT for Zub.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Why are we still upset he played in the DLeague? He hasn't complained about it and he looks worlds better in terms of matching NBA speed now.
It's worked out just fine. Plenty of Lakers players have played DLeague not as a demotion or reflection of their value as a player. With Moz/Black/small ball Cs there just wasn't enough PT for Zub. |
Eh, he DID complain about his lack of touches, which is why I brought it up:
| Quote: | | “If I get the ball I can score on everybody,” Zubac said after Saturday night’s loss. “But I didn’t get any post-ups. Sometimes my teammates don’t think I’m in a better position than them. A couple possession I was wide open, but sometimes it’s hard to make that decision in a game when you’re playing.” |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | Why are we still upset he played in the DLeague? He hasn't complained about it and he looks worlds better in terms of matching NBA speed now.
It's worked out just fine. Plenty of Lakers players have played DLeague not as a demotion or reflection of their value as a player. With Moz/Black/small ball Cs there just wasn't enough PT for Zub. |
Eh, he DID complain about his lack of touches, which is why I brought it up:
| Quote: | | “If I get the ball I can score on everybody,” Zubac said after Saturday night’s loss. “But I didn’t get any post-ups. Sometimes my teammates don’t think I’m in a better position than them. A couple possession I was wide open, but sometimes it’s hard to make that decision in a game when you’re playing.” |
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That's about in-game, not about being sent to the DLeague.
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