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P.K.
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 Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I would also say that, even if Black was better than Zu as a backup Center so far, the combo that Luke was running against Denver with Zu (C) and Black (PF) worked pretty well.
Zu was able to guard the paint & their center, while Black did pretty well guarding Faried (and, let's be honest, Faried destroyed Randle in that game)
Zu meanwhile, on offense, was able to stretch the court some, work the high PnR with our guards, leaving Black to bang down inside where he's effective.
That whole thing worked surprisingly well, and I wouldn't be too surprised to see Luke try that again when the opposing team has either a really tall or super strong PF - those guys that seem to neutralize Randle & score on him with ease
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LBJ + AD = More rings
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Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | As I said, Zubac himself said he was having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the games. ie. he COULD NOT run with them. Ingram may have had a hard time adapting to the quickness of the NBA game, but he could run with them, he could make some plays even if the shot wasn't initially falling, and he could defend somewhat right out of the gate.
European players come into the NBA with much better fundamentals then most US players have, but most of the B class (ie minor leagues) European players DO NOT play at the speed of the NBA or USA college game. |
I already discussed Zubac's conditioning woes early in this thread. That's one aspect where I thought the d-league would benefit him, but a lot of it is just reps - reps in practice, reps with the trainer, reps in scrimmage. Yes, the d-league games play at a faster pace, but the scrimmages play at an even faster pace with the current shot clock configuration. Lack of proper conditioning is common to MOST 7 footers entering the NBA and this is irrespective of where they come from. A rookie big entering the NBA from some college program won't necessarily have better conditioning than a rookie big from Europe. There are so many other variables that go into it. You'd be hard pressed to find a 7 foot big who is well conditioned entering the NBA. I'm watching Jared Sullinger suffer with similar issues after return from injury, but the Raptors have committed to playing him back into game shape. Lack of conditioning is the lay of the land for most rookie bigs. Okafor had difficulty keeping up early on last season, but he was able to play himself into game shape.
Pace should never be the end all argument to a big's playing time. Pace is very variable in the NBA. There are teams that play at a faster pace (Rockets, Warriors, Lakers) and then there are teams that play a slow pace (Dallas, Utah, Toronto). It would be foolhardy to have Zubac run up and down against a team like the Rockets for 24 minutes, but there is little downside to playing him 4-5 minutes against a team like the Jazz or Mavericks. This is how some bigs get worked into game shape (see Diaw's weight issue). If I recall correctly, Favors went to town on Black and Randle in their first game against the Jazz. This is where it would have been appropriate to see how well Zubac matched up, if not for a few minutes.
| Quote: | I was impressed with what Zu did in the summer league too. But I also cautioned everyone that it "was summer league"
the first few pre-season games, against real NBA talent, showed without a doubt that Zu:
1. COULD NOT run with an NBA team. He was slow, and got gassed easily.
2. COULD NOT bang with NBA big guys - he got pushed around like he was a prima ballerina out there
3. COULD NOT defend on the PnR at all, and was often way out of position.
4. COULD NOT do a lot of other things too...as a matter of fact, he looked fairly inept against real NBA players in almost every aspect of the game. |
Again, points 1 and 2 are conditioning and strength related, which sorts itself out with game reps, practice reps, working with the trainer. This is where you slowly bring him along and see if he's able to compete against NBA talent. Scale back the minutes if he's not ready. I don't see why he can't work himself into the rotation.
Points 3 and 4 are valid concerns, but they can be masked and worked around until proper acclimation to defensive coverages / positioning. I already brought up the dismal rim protection data and how many points were given up in the paint due to Luke's rotations. Given how many points the Lakers have allowed, there would be next to little downside in playing him for 4-5 minutes. Lakers are playing historically bad on the defensive end. They are allowing opponents to make a living at the paint. Zubac playing would not hurt an otherwise terrible defense. I also posted his early season rim protection data, and it was still better than what the other bigs were offering (47% given up at the rim vs 55/56/54 from Mozgov, Randle, Nance, Black).
| Quote: | | The few times he got into NBA games in Nov & Dec he pretty much got eaten alive. Black was WAAAAAAYYYYYY better - no question at all. |
I won't disagree with this because Black was balling for a little while.
| Quote: | | Zu spent most of his time practicing with the Lakers, not with the Dfenders. He worked on his stamina, training, footwork, defense, etc primarily with the Lakers. He got playing time with the Dfenders, and got PnR'd to death. If you watched the Dfenders games (I watched all of them when Zu was playing), he gradually got better and better. He was almost able to keep up with them (Dleague is way faster and sloppier than NBA - it's a Guard driven league), and he learned enough that he wasn't such a huge liability on D of PnR's. |
I've watched the games just recently. I've seen the PnR coverage issues, but some of that has to do with the match-ups, small ball line-ups, pace. For example, in the Charge vs Defenders game, Zubac didn't play in crunchtime/ OT because Coby Karl countered their small ball line-up. This had nothing to do with him being a liability that game. They weren't feeding him the ball, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.
| Quote: | | I'd say that going to the Dleague for a dozen or so games, where he got 25minutes a game while still primarily practicing with the Lakers, was way more valuable then 4-5 minutes of garbage time in every 3rd or 4th NBA game |
I disagree. 9 times out of 10, he's going to score on someone smaller than him in the d-league. The NBA is a different ball game in terms how they'll play him. He already passes the "niche role" test with flying colors, so it is worth living with the soft hedge issues. Most NBA games are a matter of give and take. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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I have no problem with the Future Hall of Famer spending the time that he did in the D league. I mainly think it helped his conditioning and that is very useful.
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P.K.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Quote: | As I said, Zubac himself said he was having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the games. ie. he COULD NOT run with them. Ingram may have had a hard time adapting to the quickness of the NBA game, but he could run with them, he could make some plays even if the shot wasn't initially falling, and he could defend somewhat right out of the gate.
European players come into the NBA with much better fundamentals then most US players have, but most of the B class (ie minor leagues) European players DO NOT play at the speed of the NBA or USA college game. |
I already discussed Zubac's conditioning woes early in this thread. That's one aspect where I thought the d-league would benefit him, but a lot of it is just reps - reps in practice, reps with the trainer, reps in scrimmage. Yes, the d-league games play at a faster pace, but the scrimmages play at an even faster pace with the current shot clock configuration. Lack of proper conditioning is common to MOST 7 footers entering the NBA and this is irrespective of where they come from. A rookie big entering the NBA from some college program won't necessarily have better conditioning than a rookie big from Europe. There are so many other variables that go into it. You'd be hard pressed to find a 7 foot big who is well conditioned entering the NBA. I'm watching Jared Sullinger suffer with similar issues after return from injury, but the Raptors have committed to playing him back into game shape. Lack of conditioning is the lay of the land for most rookie bigs. Okafor had difficulty keeping up early on last season, but he was able to play himself into game shape.
Pace should never be the end all argument to a big's playing time. Pace is very variable in the NBA. There are teams that play at a faster pace (Rockets, Warriors, Lakers) and then there are teams that play a slow pace (Dallas, Utah, Toronto). It would be foolhardy to have Zubac run up and down against a team like the Rockets for 24 minutes, but there is little downside to playing him 4-5 minutes against a team like the Jazz or Mavericks. This is how some bigs get worked into game shape (see Diaw's weight issue). If I recall correctly, Favors went to town on Black and Randle in their first game against the Jazz. This is where it would have been appropriate to see how well Zubac matched up, if not for a few minutes.
| Quote: | I was impressed with what Zu did in the summer league too. But I also cautioned everyone that it "was summer league"
the first few pre-season games, against real NBA talent, showed without a doubt that Zu:
1. COULD NOT run with an NBA team. He was slow, and got gassed easily.
2. COULD NOT bang with NBA big guys - he got pushed around like he was a prima ballerina out there
3. COULD NOT defend on the PnR at all, and was often way out of position.
4. COULD NOT do a lot of other things too...as a matter of fact, he looked fairly inept against real NBA players in almost every aspect of the game. |
Again, points 1 and 2 are conditioning and strength related, which sorts itself out with game reps, practice reps, working with the trainer. This is where you slowly bring him along and see if he's able to compete against NBA talent. Scale back the minutes if he's not ready. I don't see why he can't work himself into the rotation.
Points 3 and 4 are valid concerns, but they can be masked and worked around until proper acclimation to defensive coverages / positioning. I already brought up the dismal rim protection data and how many points were given up in the paint due to Luke's rotations. Given how many points the Lakers have allowed, there would be next to little downside in playing him for 4-5 minutes. Lakers are playing historically bad on the defensive end. They are allowing opponents to make a living at the paint. Zubac playing would not hurt an otherwise terrible defense. I also posted his early season rim protection data, and it was still better than what the other bigs were offering (47% given up at the rim vs 55/56/54 from Mozgov, Randle, Nance, Black).
| Quote: | | The few times he got into NBA games in Nov & Dec he pretty much got eaten alive. Black was WAAAAAAYYYYYY better - no question at all. |
I won't disagree with this because Black was balling for a little while.
| Quote: | | Zu spent most of his time practicing with the Lakers, not with the Dfenders. He worked on his stamina, training, footwork, defense, etc primarily with the Lakers. He got playing time with the Dfenders, and got PnR'd to death. If you watched the Dfenders games (I watched all of them when Zu was playing), he gradually got better and better. He was almost able to keep up with them (Dleague is way faster and sloppier than NBA - it's a Guard driven league), and he learned enough that he wasn't such a huge liability on D of PnR's. |
I've watched the games just recently. I've seen the PnR coverage issues, but some of that has to do with the match-ups, small ball line-ups, pace. For example, in the Charge vs Defenders game, Zubac didn't play in crunchtime/ OT because Coby Karl countered their small ball line-up. This had nothing to do with him being a liability that game. They weren't feeding him the ball, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.
| Quote: | | I'd say that going to the Dleague for a dozen or so games, where he got 25minutes a game while still primarily practicing with the Lakers, was way more valuable then 4-5 minutes of garbage time in every 3rd or 4th NBA game |
I disagree. 9 times out of 10, he's going to score on someone smaller than him in the d-league. The NBA is a different ball game in terms how they'll play him. He already passes the "niche role" test with flying colors, so it is worth living with the soft hedge issues. Most NBA games are a matter of give and take. |
I've watched every game Zu's played in the Dleague (they stream them on Youtube). His improvement, even against Dleague guys, has been pretty substantial
WRT your other point - ie all the Dleague guys are smaller then him, and he "can score at will 9 out of 10 of the times" paraphrased. That just isn't true. If you only watched the last Dfenders game Zu was in, they were a team with no one over about 6'8" or so... other Dleague teams DO have Centers as big as he is. Earlier in the season, some of those 6'10"-7' tall Dleague centers were clearly better than Zu...
Even on the Dfenders, there's another 7'ish guy - and 4 weeks ago he was better than Zu in the same games.
Last point: we've seen Zu play well good in exactly 1 NBA game. He was marginally good in part of 1 other game. He's not good enough to even be called "good" yet, much less think he's great. I think we need to see a little more before we anoint him the 2nd coming of KAJ..(or Marc)
He (probably) earned the right to additional NBA playing time, but 1 game doesn't make him better than Black yet, who plays tough every game.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I have no problem with the Future Hall of Famer spending the time that he did in the D league. I mainly think it helped his conditioning and that is very useful. |
Nice to have another user on the Zubac to the HOF boat 
He slimmed down a bit after playing a few DLeague games, even if we considere it not valid to his development as a player, it is helping with his conditioning. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I have no problem with the Future Hall of Famer spending the time that he did in the D league. I mainly think it helped his conditioning and that is very useful. |
Nice to have another user on the Zubac to the HOF boat
He slimmed down a bit after playing a few DLeague games, even if we considere it not valid to his development as a player, it is helping with his conditioning. |
Yes to the ZHOF boat! Steer clear of the icebergs please:)
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greenfrog
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Joined: 02 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Quote: | As I said, Zubac himself said he was having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the games. ie. he COULD NOT run with them. Ingram may have had a hard time adapting to the quickness of the NBA game, but he could run with them, he could make some plays even if the shot wasn't initially falling, and he could defend somewhat right out of the gate.
European players come into the NBA with much better fundamentals then most US players have, but most of the B class (ie minor leagues) European players DO NOT play at the speed of the NBA or USA college game. |
I already discussed Zubac's conditioning woes early in this thread. That's one aspect where I thought the d-league would benefit him, but a lot of it is just reps - reps in practice, reps with the trainer, reps in scrimmage. Yes, the d-league games play at a faster pace, but the scrimmages play at an even faster pace with the current shot clock configuration. Lack of proper conditioning is common to MOST 7 footers entering the NBA and this is irrespective of where they come from. A rookie big entering the NBA from some college program won't necessarily have better conditioning than a rookie big from Europe. There are so many other variables that go into it. You'd be hard pressed to find a 7 foot big who is well conditioned entering the NBA. I'm watching Jared Sullinger suffer with similar issues after return from injury, but the Raptors have committed to playing him back into game shape. Lack of conditioning is the lay of the land for most rookie bigs. Okafor had difficulty keeping up early on last season, but he was able to play himself into game shape.
Pace should never be the end all argument to a big's playing time. Pace is very variable in the NBA. There are teams that play at a faster pace (Rockets, Warriors, Lakers) and then there are teams that play a slow pace (Dallas, Utah, Toronto). It would be foolhardy to have Zubac run up and down against a team like the Rockets for 24 minutes, but there is little downside to playing him 4-5 minutes against a team like the Jazz or Mavericks. This is how some bigs get worked into game shape (see Diaw's weight issue). If I recall correctly, Favors went to town on Black and Randle in their first game against the Jazz. This is where it would have been appropriate to see how well Zubac matched up, if not for a few minutes.
| Quote: | I was impressed with what Zu did in the summer league too. But I also cautioned everyone that it "was summer league"
the first few pre-season games, against real NBA talent, showed without a doubt that Zu:
1. COULD NOT run with an NBA team. He was slow, and got gassed easily.
2. COULD NOT bang with NBA big guys - he got pushed around like he was a prima ballerina out there
3. COULD NOT defend on the PnR at all, and was often way out of position.
4. COULD NOT do a lot of other things too...as a matter of fact, he looked fairly inept against real NBA players in almost every aspect of the game. |
Again, points 1 and 2 are conditioning and strength related, which sorts itself out with game reps, practice reps, working with the trainer. This is where you slowly bring him along and see if he's able to compete against NBA talent. Scale back the minutes if he's not ready. I don't see why he can't work himself into the rotation.
Points 3 and 4 are valid concerns, but they can be masked and worked around until proper acclimation to defensive coverages / positioning. I already brought up the dismal rim protection data and how many points were given up in the paint due to Luke's rotations. Given how many points the Lakers have allowed, there would be next to little downside in playing him for 4-5 minutes. Lakers are playing historically bad on the defensive end. They are allowing opponents to make a living at the paint. Zubac playing would not hurt an otherwise terrible defense. I also posted his early season rim protection data, and it was still better than what the other bigs were offering (47% given up at the rim vs 55/56/54 from Mozgov, Randle, Nance, Black).
| Quote: | | The few times he got into NBA games in Nov & Dec he pretty much got eaten alive. Black was WAAAAAAYYYYYY better - no question at all. |
I won't disagree with this because Black was balling for a little while.
| Quote: | | Zu spent most of his time practicing with the Lakers, not with the Dfenders. He worked on his stamina, training, footwork, defense, etc primarily with the Lakers. He got playing time with the Dfenders, and got PnR'd to death. If you watched the Dfenders games (I watched all of them when Zu was playing), he gradually got better and better. He was almost able to keep up with them (Dleague is way faster and sloppier than NBA - it's a Guard driven league), and he learned enough that he wasn't such a huge liability on D of PnR's. |
I've watched the games just recently. I've seen the PnR coverage issues, but some of that has to do with the match-ups, small ball line-ups, pace. For example, in the Charge vs Defenders game, Zubac didn't play in crunchtime/ OT because Coby Karl countered their small ball line-up. This had nothing to do with him being a liability that game. They weren't feeding him the ball, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.
| Quote: | | I'd say that going to the Dleague for a dozen or so games, where he got 25minutes a game while still primarily practicing with the Lakers, was way more valuable then 4-5 minutes of garbage time in every 3rd or 4th NBA game |
I disagree. 9 times out of 10, he's going to score on someone smaller than him in the d-league. The NBA is a different ball game in terms how they'll play him. He already passes the "niche role" test with flying colors, so it is worth living with the soft hedge issues. Most NBA games are a matter of give and take. |
I've watched every game Zu's played in the Dleague (they stream them on Youtube). His improvement, even against Dleague guys, has been pretty substantial
WRT your other point - ie all the Dleague guys are smaller then him, and he "can score at will 9 out of 10 of the times" paraphrased. That just isn't true. If you only watched the last Dfenders game Zu was in, they were a team with no one over about 6'8" or so... other Dleague teams DO have Centers as big as he is. Earlier in the season, some of those 6'10"-7' tall Dleague centers were clearly better than Zu...
Even on the Dfenders, there's another 7'ish guy - and 4 weeks ago he was better than Zu in the same games.
Last point: we've seen Zu play well good in exactly 1 NBA game. He was marginally good in part of 1 other game. He's not good enough to even be called "good" yet, much less think he's great. I think we need to see a little more before we anoint him the 2nd coming of KAJ..(or Marc)
He (probably) earned the right to additional NBA playing time, but 1 game doesn't make him better than Black yet, who plays tough every game. |
Has Moz had a game that impactful this season? |
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KindCrippler2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Quote: | As I said, Zubac himself said he was having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the games. ie. he COULD NOT run with them. Ingram may have had a hard time adapting to the quickness of the NBA game, but he could run with them, he could make some plays even if the shot wasn't initially falling, and he could defend somewhat right out of the gate.
European players come into the NBA with much better fundamentals then most US players have, but most of the B class (ie minor leagues) European players DO NOT play at the speed of the NBA or USA college game. |
I already discussed Zubac's conditioning woes early in this thread. That's one aspect where I thought the d-league would benefit him, but a lot of it is just reps - reps in practice, reps with the trainer, reps in scrimmage. Yes, the d-league games play at a faster pace, but the scrimmages play at an even faster pace with the current shot clock configuration. Lack of proper conditioning is common to MOST 7 footers entering the NBA and this is irrespective of where they come from. A rookie big entering the NBA from some college program won't necessarily have better conditioning than a rookie big from Europe. There are so many other variables that go into it. You'd be hard pressed to find a 7 foot big who is well conditioned entering the NBA. I'm watching Jared Sullinger suffer with similar issues after return from injury, but the Raptors have committed to playing him back into game shape. Lack of conditioning is the lay of the land for most rookie bigs. Okafor had difficulty keeping up early on last season, but he was able to play himself into game shape.
Pace should never be the end all argument to a big's playing time. Pace is very variable in the NBA. There are teams that play at a faster pace (Rockets, Warriors, Lakers) and then there are teams that play a slow pace (Dallas, Utah, Toronto). It would be foolhardy to have Zubac run up and down against a team like the Rockets for 24 minutes, but there is little downside to playing him 4-5 minutes against a team like the Jazz or Mavericks. This is how some bigs get worked into game shape (see Diaw's weight issue). If I recall correctly, Favors went to town on Black and Randle in their first game against the Jazz. This is where it would have been appropriate to see how well Zubac matched up, if not for a few minutes.
| Quote: | I was impressed with what Zu did in the summer league too. But I also cautioned everyone that it "was summer league"
the first few pre-season games, against real NBA talent, showed without a doubt that Zu:
1. COULD NOT run with an NBA team. He was slow, and got gassed easily.
2. COULD NOT bang with NBA big guys - he got pushed around like he was a prima ballerina out there
3. COULD NOT defend on the PnR at all, and was often way out of position.
4. COULD NOT do a lot of other things too...as a matter of fact, he looked fairly inept against real NBA players in almost every aspect of the game. |
Again, points 1 and 2 are conditioning and strength related, which sorts itself out with game reps, practice reps, working with the trainer. This is where you slowly bring him along and see if he's able to compete against NBA talent. Scale back the minutes if he's not ready. I don't see why he can't work himself into the rotation.
Points 3 and 4 are valid concerns, but they can be masked and worked around until proper acclimation to defensive coverages / positioning. I already brought up the dismal rim protection data and how many points were given up in the paint due to Luke's rotations. Given how many points the Lakers have allowed, there would be next to little downside in playing him for 4-5 minutes. Lakers are playing historically bad on the defensive end. They are allowing opponents to make a living at the paint. Zubac playing would not hurt an otherwise terrible defense. I also posted his early season rim protection data, and it was still better than what the other bigs were offering (47% given up at the rim vs 55/56/54 from Mozgov, Randle, Nance, Black).
| Quote: | | The few times he got into NBA games in Nov & Dec he pretty much got eaten alive. Black was WAAAAAAYYYYYY better - no question at all. |
I won't disagree with this because Black was balling for a little while.
| Quote: | | Zu spent most of his time practicing with the Lakers, not with the Dfenders. He worked on his stamina, training, footwork, defense, etc primarily with the Lakers. He got playing time with the Dfenders, and got PnR'd to death. If you watched the Dfenders games (I watched all of them when Zu was playing), he gradually got better and better. He was almost able to keep up with them (Dleague is way faster and sloppier than NBA - it's a Guard driven league), and he learned enough that he wasn't such a huge liability on D of PnR's. |
I've watched the games just recently. I've seen the PnR coverage issues, but some of that has to do with the match-ups, small ball line-ups, pace. For example, in the Charge vs Defenders game, Zubac didn't play in crunchtime/ OT because Coby Karl countered their small ball line-up. This had nothing to do with him being a liability that game. They weren't feeding him the ball, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.
| Quote: | | I'd say that going to the Dleague for a dozen or so games, where he got 25minutes a game while still primarily practicing with the Lakers, was way more valuable then 4-5 minutes of garbage time in every 3rd or 4th NBA game |
I disagree. 9 times out of 10, he's going to score on someone smaller than him in the d-league. The NBA is a different ball game in terms how they'll play him. He already passes the "niche role" test with flying colors, so it is worth living with the soft hedge issues. Most NBA games are a matter of give and take. |
I've watched every game Zu's played in the Dleague (they stream them on Youtube). His improvement, even against Dleague guys, has been pretty substantial
WRT your other point - ie all the Dleague guys are smaller then him, and he "can score at will 9 out of 10 of the times" paraphrased. That just isn't true. If you only watched the last Dfenders game Zu was in, they were a team with no one over about 6'8" or so... other Dleague teams DO have Centers as big as he is. Earlier in the season, some of those 6'10"-7' tall Dleague centers were clearly better than Zu...
Even on the Dfenders, there's another 7'ish guy - and 4 weeks ago he was better than Zu in the same games.
Last point: we've seen Zu play well good in exactly 1 NBA game. He was marginally good in part of 1 other game. He's not good enough to even be called "good" yet, much less think he's great. I think we need to see a little more before we anoint him the 2nd coming of KAJ..(or Marc)
He (probably) earned the right to additional NBA playing time, but 1 game doesn't make him better than Black yet, who plays tough every game. |
1) Just to clear things up (because I know someone will inevitably straw man me), I'm not part of the start Zubac movement that is currently taking twitter and LG by storm. I don't believe Zubac is better than Black or Mozgov right now. I am, however, part of the "don't (bleep) put TRob/Randle on Gasol and allow him to shoot a perfect 9/9" movement. I'm part of the "fix the rim protection movement" because Lakers are allowing opponents to shoot a league high 70% at the basket (league average is 62.5%). There are areas that Zubac could help out on right now, even in limited minutes. There have been numerous instances where the match-up favored Zubac, only to have Luke go with someone smaller, who would then get scored on every other play due of the size discrepancy of the match-up. A lot of this is discussed in the defensive rankings thread here: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=180132&start=125 - the rotations need to change for the Lakers to have any defensive progress this season.
2) The 9 out of 10 times statement is slightly hyperbole. My point was that scoring is so vastly inflated in the d-league that is is not taken seriously by scouts. This applies more to the players that just outclass others in the scoring department (Anthony Brown, Jordan McRae, Ryan Kelly , Jabari Brown, Vander Blue, etc). Players like those are a dime a dozen. Quite frankly, there is almost no resistance to scoring in the d-league (and this has to do with the pace). Scouts are focusing on the translatable elements - defense, ball movement, hustle, making the extra pass. For example, guys like Jonathan Simmons or Tyler Johnson didn't exactly blow people away with scoring, although they were good at it. They did the other things well enough to warrant the attention.
3) Lastly, the d-league games are not streamed on youtube anymore. That was last year. The games are on facebook and it's total garbage. They've taken a step back in the streaming department this season. There is a good read on it here: http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2016/11/12/13608826/facebook-live-is-killing-the-nbadl-experience |
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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Are people really complaining that he's playing some D-League games?  |
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Yong
Star Player
Joined: 08 Oct 2009
Posts: 9024
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| We need Zu to become Gasolesque to counter all the upcoming superstar bigs ala Embiid Towns and Porzingis |
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P.K.
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29713
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Quote: | As I said, Zubac himself said he was having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the games. ie. he COULD NOT run with them. Ingram may have had a hard time adapting to the quickness of the NBA game, but he could run with them, he could make some plays even if the shot wasn't initially falling, and he could defend somewhat right out of the gate.
European players come into the NBA with much better fundamentals then most US players have, but most of the B class (ie minor leagues) European players DO NOT play at the speed of the NBA or USA college game. |
I already discussed Zubac's conditioning woes early in this thread. That's one aspect where I thought the d-league would benefit him, but a lot of it is just reps - reps in practice, reps with the trainer, reps in scrimmage. Yes, the d-league games play at a faster pace, but the scrimmages play at an even faster pace with the current shot clock configuration. Lack of proper conditioning is common to MOST 7 footers entering the NBA and this is irrespective of where they come from. A rookie big entering the NBA from some college program won't necessarily have better conditioning than a rookie big from Europe. There are so many other variables that go into it. You'd be hard pressed to find a 7 foot big who is well conditioned entering the NBA. I'm watching Jared Sullinger suffer with similar issues after return from injury, but the Raptors have committed to playing him back into game shape. Lack of conditioning is the lay of the land for most rookie bigs. Okafor had difficulty keeping up early on last season, but he was able to play himself into game shape.
Pace should never be the end all argument to a big's playing time. Pace is very variable in the NBA. There are teams that play at a faster pace (Rockets, Warriors, Lakers) and then there are teams that play a slow pace (Dallas, Utah, Toronto). It would be foolhardy to have Zubac run up and down against a team like the Rockets for 24 minutes, but there is little downside to playing him 4-5 minutes against a team like the Jazz or Mavericks. This is how some bigs get worked into game shape (see Diaw's weight issue). If I recall correctly, Favors went to town on Black and Randle in their first game against the Jazz. This is where it would have been appropriate to see how well Zubac matched up, if not for a few minutes.
| Quote: | I was impressed with what Zu did in the summer league too. But I also cautioned everyone that it "was summer league"
the first few pre-season games, against real NBA talent, showed without a doubt that Zu:
1. COULD NOT run with an NBA team. He was slow, and got gassed easily.
2. COULD NOT bang with NBA big guys - he got pushed around like he was a prima ballerina out there
3. COULD NOT defend on the PnR at all, and was often way out of position.
4. COULD NOT do a lot of other things too...as a matter of fact, he looked fairly inept against real NBA players in almost every aspect of the game. |
Again, points 1 and 2 are conditioning and strength related, which sorts itself out with game reps, practice reps, working with the trainer. This is where you slowly bring him along and see if he's able to compete against NBA talent. Scale back the minutes if he's not ready. I don't see why he can't work himself into the rotation.
Points 3 and 4 are valid concerns, but they can be masked and worked around until proper acclimation to defensive coverages / positioning. I already brought up the dismal rim protection data and how many points were given up in the paint due to Luke's rotations. Given how many points the Lakers have allowed, there would be next to little downside in playing him for 4-5 minutes. Lakers are playing historically bad on the defensive end. They are allowing opponents to make a living at the paint. Zubac playing would not hurt an otherwise terrible defense. I also posted his early season rim protection data, and it was still better than what the other bigs were offering (47% given up at the rim vs 55/56/54 from Mozgov, Randle, Nance, Black).
| Quote: | | The few times he got into NBA games in Nov & Dec he pretty much got eaten alive. Black was WAAAAAAYYYYYY better - no question at all. |
I won't disagree with this because Black was balling for a little while.
| Quote: | | Zu spent most of his time practicing with the Lakers, not with the Dfenders. He worked on his stamina, training, footwork, defense, etc primarily with the Lakers. He got playing time with the Dfenders, and got PnR'd to death. If you watched the Dfenders games (I watched all of them when Zu was playing), he gradually got better and better. He was almost able to keep up with them (Dleague is way faster and sloppier than NBA - it's a Guard driven league), and he learned enough that he wasn't such a huge liability on D of PnR's. |
I've watched the games just recently. I've seen the PnR coverage issues, but some of that has to do with the match-ups, small ball line-ups, pace. For example, in the Charge vs Defenders game, Zubac didn't play in crunchtime/ OT because Coby Karl countered their small ball line-up. This had nothing to do with him being a liability that game. They weren't feeding him the ball, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.
| Quote: | | I'd say that going to the Dleague for a dozen or so games, where he got 25minutes a game while still primarily practicing with the Lakers, was way more valuable then 4-5 minutes of garbage time in every 3rd or 4th NBA game |
I disagree. 9 times out of 10, he's going to score on someone smaller than him in the d-league. The NBA is a different ball game in terms how they'll play him. He already passes the "niche role" test with flying colors, so it is worth living with the soft hedge issues. Most NBA games are a matter of give and take. |
I've watched every game Zu's played in the Dleague (they stream them on Youtube). His improvement, even against Dleague guys, has been pretty substantial
WRT your other point - ie all the Dleague guys are smaller then him, and he "can score at will 9 out of 10 of the times" paraphrased. That just isn't true. If you only watched the last Dfenders game Zu was in, they were a team with no one over about 6'8" or so... other Dleague teams DO have Centers as big as he is. Earlier in the season, some of those 6'10"-7' tall Dleague centers were clearly better than Zu...
Even on the Dfenders, there's another 7'ish guy - and 4 weeks ago he was better than Zu in the same games.
Last point: we've seen Zu play well good in exactly 1 NBA game. He was marginally good in part of 1 other game. He's not good enough to even be called "good" yet, much less think he's great. I think we need to see a little more before we anoint him the 2nd coming of KAJ..(or Marc)
He (probably) earned the right to additional NBA playing time, but 1 game doesn't make him better than Black yet, who plays tough every game. |
1) Just to clear things up (because I know someone will inevitably straw man me), I'm not part of the start Zubac movement that is currently taking twitter and LG by storm. I don't believe Zubac is better than Black or Mozgov right now. I am, however, part of the "don't (bleep) put TRob/Randle on Gasol and allow him to shoot a perfect 9/9" movement. I'm part of the "fix the rim protection movement" because Lakers are allowing opponents to shoot a league high 70% at the basket (league average is 62.5%). There are areas that Zubac could help out on right now, even in limited minutes. There have been numerous instances where the match-up favored Zubac, only to have Luke go with someone smaller, who would then get scored on every other play due of the size discrepancy of the match-up. A lot of this is discussed in the defensive rankings thread here: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=180132&start=125 - the rotations need to change for the Lakers to have any defensive progress this season.
2) The 9 out of 10 times statement is slightly hyperbole. My point was that scoring is so vastly inflated in the d-league that is is not taken seriously by scouts. This applies more to the players that just outclass others in the scoring department (Anthony Brown, Jordan McRae, Ryan Kelly , Jabari Brown, Vander Blue, etc). Players like those are a dime a dozen. Quite frankly, there is almost no resistance to scoring in the d-league (and this has to do with the pace). Scouts are focusing on the translatable elements - defense, ball movement, hustle, making the extra pass. For example, guys like Jonathan Simmons or Tyler Johnson didn't exactly blow people away with scoring, although they were good at it. They did the other things well enough to warrant the attention.
3) Lastly, the d-league games are not streamed on youtube anymore. That was last year. The games are on facebook and it's total garbage. They've taken a step back in the streaming department this season. There is a good read on it here: http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2016/11/12/13608826/facebook-live-is-killing-the-nbadl-experience |
yeah, I meant Facebook. I have losangeles.dleague.nba.com bookmarked, and just click on the "Live" link.
Once you get that link up, if you copy & past it to a new browser window, it doesn't stream too badly.
If you just use the link and display it in the NBA.com/facebook spawned daughter window it is pretty sucky and stalls out a lot.
I'll agree with part of your other assessment too - there were situational times when putting Zu in there probably made some sense - including that one you mention. I've never been impressed with the idea of putting Randle in on some of the better Centers in the league - he can't defend PF's very well, and they want him to protect the rim against DMC or such? Nope.
However, that's been very situational - at least up to now. The number of games where that'd work out for Zu has still been small. There were times when we were down about 20pts with 4min to go and I was grinding my teeth thinking where's Zu?
My original point still stands though - Zu wasn't completely removed from the Lakers bench, and was still available most LAL games. The only ones he missed were that East coast road swing, IIRC. Most of the rest of the time, he was sent down after a LAL game, he played in a DFenders game, and was called back, sometimes the next day. It's still a much better scenario that he was getting significant Dleague minutes while still being available to LAL most of the time & training mostly with the Lakers - instead of waiting for a few minutes of PT with the Lakers every 5th or 6th game or so.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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KindCrippler2000
Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | P.K. wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Quote: | As I said, Zubac himself said he was having a hard time keeping up with the pace of the games. ie. he COULD NOT run with them. Ingram may have had a hard time adapting to the quickness of the NBA game, but he could run with them, he could make some plays even if the shot wasn't initially falling, and he could defend somewhat right out of the gate.
European players come into the NBA with much better fundamentals then most US players have, but most of the B class (ie minor leagues) European players DO NOT play at the speed of the NBA or USA college game. |
I already discussed Zubac's conditioning woes early in this thread. That's one aspect where I thought the d-league would benefit him, but a lot of it is just reps - reps in practice, reps with the trainer, reps in scrimmage. Yes, the d-league games play at a faster pace, but the scrimmages play at an even faster pace with the current shot clock configuration. Lack of proper conditioning is common to MOST 7 footers entering the NBA and this is irrespective of where they come from. A rookie big entering the NBA from some college program won't necessarily have better conditioning than a rookie big from Europe. There are so many other variables that go into it. You'd be hard pressed to find a 7 foot big who is well conditioned entering the NBA. I'm watching Jared Sullinger suffer with similar issues after return from injury, but the Raptors have committed to playing him back into game shape. Lack of conditioning is the lay of the land for most rookie bigs. Okafor had difficulty keeping up early on last season, but he was able to play himself into game shape.
Pace should never be the end all argument to a big's playing time. Pace is very variable in the NBA. There are teams that play at a faster pace (Rockets, Warriors, Lakers) and then there are teams that play a slow pace (Dallas, Utah, Toronto). It would be foolhardy to have Zubac run up and down against a team like the Rockets for 24 minutes, but there is little downside to playing him 4-5 minutes against a team like the Jazz or Mavericks. This is how some bigs get worked into game shape (see Diaw's weight issue). If I recall correctly, Favors went to town on Black and Randle in their first game against the Jazz. This is where it would have been appropriate to see how well Zubac matched up, if not for a few minutes.
| Quote: | I was impressed with what Zu did in the summer league too. But I also cautioned everyone that it "was summer league"
the first few pre-season games, against real NBA talent, showed without a doubt that Zu:
1. COULD NOT run with an NBA team. He was slow, and got gassed easily.
2. COULD NOT bang with NBA big guys - he got pushed around like he was a prima ballerina out there
3. COULD NOT defend on the PnR at all, and was often way out of position.
4. COULD NOT do a lot of other things too...as a matter of fact, he looked fairly inept against real NBA players in almost every aspect of the game. |
Again, points 1 and 2 are conditioning and strength related, which sorts itself out with game reps, practice reps, working with the trainer. This is where you slowly bring him along and see if he's able to compete against NBA talent. Scale back the minutes if he's not ready. I don't see why he can't work himself into the rotation.
Points 3 and 4 are valid concerns, but they can be masked and worked around until proper acclimation to defensive coverages / positioning. I already brought up the dismal rim protection data and how many points were given up in the paint due to Luke's rotations. Given how many points the Lakers have allowed, there would be next to little downside in playing him for 4-5 minutes. Lakers are playing historically bad on the defensive end. They are allowing opponents to make a living at the paint. Zubac playing would not hurt an otherwise terrible defense. I also posted his early season rim protection data, and it was still better than what the other bigs were offering (47% given up at the rim vs 55/56/54 from Mozgov, Randle, Nance, Black).
| Quote: | | The few times he got into NBA games in Nov & Dec he pretty much got eaten alive. Black was WAAAAAAYYYYYY better - no question at all. |
I won't disagree with this because Black was balling for a little while.
| Quote: | | Zu spent most of his time practicing with the Lakers, not with the Dfenders. He worked on his stamina, training, footwork, defense, etc primarily with the Lakers. He got playing time with the Dfenders, and got PnR'd to death. If you watched the Dfenders games (I watched all of them when Zu was playing), he gradually got better and better. He was almost able to keep up with them (Dleague is way faster and sloppier than NBA - it's a Guard driven league), and he learned enough that he wasn't such a huge liability on D of PnR's. |
I've watched the games just recently. I've seen the PnR coverage issues, but some of that has to do with the match-ups, small ball line-ups, pace. For example, in the Charge vs Defenders game, Zubac didn't play in crunchtime/ OT because Coby Karl countered their small ball line-up. This had nothing to do with him being a liability that game. They weren't feeding him the ball, so it wouldn't have mattered anyways.
| Quote: | | I'd say that going to the Dleague for a dozen or so games, where he got 25minutes a game while still primarily practicing with the Lakers, was way more valuable then 4-5 minutes of garbage time in every 3rd or 4th NBA game |
I disagree. 9 times out of 10, he's going to score on someone smaller than him in the d-league. The NBA is a different ball game in terms how they'll play him. He already passes the "niche role" test with flying colors, so it is worth living with the soft hedge issues. Most NBA games are a matter of give and take. |
I've watched every game Zu's played in the Dleague (they stream them on Youtube). His improvement, even against Dleague guys, has been pretty substantial
WRT your other point - ie all the Dleague guys are smaller then him, and he "can score at will 9 out of 10 of the times" paraphrased. That just isn't true. If you only watched the last Dfenders game Zu was in, they were a team with no one over about 6'8" or so... other Dleague teams DO have Centers as big as he is. Earlier in the season, some of those 6'10"-7' tall Dleague centers were clearly better than Zu...
Even on the Dfenders, there's another 7'ish guy - and 4 weeks ago he was better than Zu in the same games.
Last point: we've seen Zu play well good in exactly 1 NBA game. He was marginally good in part of 1 other game. He's not good enough to even be called "good" yet, much less think he's great. I think we need to see a little more before we anoint him the 2nd coming of KAJ..(or Marc)
He (probably) earned the right to additional NBA playing time, but 1 game doesn't make him better than Black yet, who plays tough every game. |
1) Just to clear things up (because I know someone will inevitably straw man me), I'm not part of the start Zubac movement that is currently taking twitter and LG by storm. I don't believe Zubac is better than Black or Mozgov right now. I am, however, part of the "don't (bleep) put TRob/Randle on Gasol and allow him to shoot a perfect 9/9" movement. I'm part of the "fix the rim protection movement" because Lakers are allowing opponents to shoot a league high 70% at the basket (league average is 62.5%). There are areas that Zubac could help out on right now, even in limited minutes. There have been numerous instances where the match-up favored Zubac, only to have Luke go with someone smaller, who would then get scored on every other play due of the size discrepancy of the match-up. A lot of this is discussed in the defensive rankings thread here: http://forums.lakersground.net/viewtopic.php?t=180132&start=125 - the rotations need to change for the Lakers to have any defensive progress this season.
2) The 9 out of 10 times statement is slightly hyperbole. My point was that scoring is so vastly inflated in the d-league that is is not taken seriously by scouts. This applies more to the players that just outclass others in the scoring department (Anthony Brown, Jordan McRae, Ryan Kelly , Jabari Brown, Vander Blue, etc). Players like those are a dime a dozen. Quite frankly, there is almost no resistance to scoring in the d-league (and this has to do with the pace). Scouts are focusing on the translatable elements - defense, ball movement, hustle, making the extra pass. For example, guys like Jonathan Simmons or Tyler Johnson didn't exactly blow people away with scoring, although they were good at it. They did the other things well enough to warrant the attention.
3) Lastly, the d-league games are not streamed on youtube anymore. That was last year. The games are on facebook and it's total garbage. They've taken a step back in the streaming department this season. There is a good read on it here: http://www.ridiculousupside.com/2016/11/12/13608826/facebook-live-is-killing-the-nbadl-experience |
yeah, I meant Facebook. I have losangeles.dleague.nba.com bookmarked, and just click on the "Live" link.
Once you get that link up, if you copy & past it to a new browser window, it doesn't stream too badly.
If you just use the link and display it in the NBA.com/facebook spawned daughter window it is pretty sucky and stalls out a lot.
I'll agree with part of your other assessment too - there were situational times when putting Zu in there probably made some sense - including that one you mention. I've never been impressed with the idea of putting Randle in on some of the better Centers in the league - he can't defend PF's very well, and they want him to protect the rim against DMC or such? Nope.
However, that's been very situational - at least up to now. The number of games where that'd work out for Zu has still been small. There were times when we were down about 20pts with 4min to go and I was grinding my teeth thinking where's Zu?
My original point still stands though - Zu wasn't completely removed from the Lakers bench, and was still available most LAL games. The only ones he missed were that East coast road swing, IIRC. Most of the rest of the time, he was sent down after a LAL game, he played in a DFenders game, and was called back, sometimes the next day. It's still a much better scenario that he was getting significant Dleague minutes while still being available to LAL most of the time & training mostly with the Lakers - instead of waiting for a few minutes of PT with the Lakers every 5th or 6th game or so. |
Fair enough. Just pointing out there are diametrically opposed ways to break a rookie in to the NBA game. My only real gripe is that he would still be parked in the d-league if Black didn't go down against Detroit (Luke put Black/Randle on Drummond prior to that). Luke was probably impressed enough to squeeze him into the rotation. Of course, Drummond was one of the favorable match-ups for him, so it was a no brainer to play him with Mozgov in foul trouble. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I have no problem with the Future Hall of Famer spending the time that he did in the D league. I mainly think it helped his conditioning and that is very useful. |
It was smart to play him in only home games so he could still practice with the Lakers.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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manlisten
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2004
Posts: 3188
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:06 am Post subject: |
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He's such an unassuming guy and the game looks so easy for him..It's like he doesn't even realize that he's good. Definitely favors Marc just the way he moves around on the court.
_________________
It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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P.K.
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29713
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | I have no problem with the Future Hall of Famer spending the time that he did in the D league. I mainly think it helped his conditioning and that is very useful. |
It was smart to play him in only home games so he could still practice with the Lakers. |
To be accurate, they did leave him with the Dfenders when they did that one east coast swing of about 4-5 games - I didn't bother to look up the exact #.
But, overall, Zu played in 13 Dfenders games and was still available for approximately 41 (or 42) out of a total of 46 Lakers games so far.
According to the Dfenders website on NBA.com, he averaged: 30 mins, 15.6pts on 57.8%, 9.7 rebounds. That was a lot more burn then he would have gotten otherwise.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22313
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | That was a lot more burn then he would have gotten otherwise. |
Yes. Can't see a reason to argue over it.
Guy was getting minutes and learning a little bit more about the game.
Otherwise, he would be sitting at the end of the bench while Luke would test players who, at the time, gave the Lakers a bigger chance to win games. |
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MJST
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Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26309
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:22 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone notice how much Zubac's body has changed in the last game?
It's really starting to form on him, when this off-season it was like a block and some baby fat, he's already toning up by the looks of it. |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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Zu got took to school tonight.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, Zuke Walton getting 10 mpg or so unless he has a favorable matchup makes sense going forward.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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P.K.
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29713
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Zu got took to school tonight. |
he's gotta learn sometime
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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JrR31
Starting Rotation
Joined: 31 Oct 2014
Posts: 438
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| He will learn from it. |
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Shaolin's Finest
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2009
Posts: 1430
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Is it just me or does he tend to fumble rebounds a lot? |
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justsomelakerfan
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaolin's Finest wrote: | | Is it just me or does he tend to fumble rebounds a lot? |
It looked more like he was getting overpowered, less like he was fumbling it, but that's what my kinda drunk eyeballs are telling me
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Austin Reaves
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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Remember he's only 19. A baby too.
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From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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ratra_1211
Starting Rotation
Joined: 30 Dec 2015
Posts: 786
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:13 am Post subject: |
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| he got worked by Big Al tonight in the post and got bullied in the paint. great learning experience though for him so keep it up big Zu! |
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