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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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 Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Last year the Lakers played really fast and Zu got left behind. This year they're playing video game speed and he's sort of in the same boat despite getting in better shape. Where he looked best was running high PnR with Russell. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46681
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | He’s getting back to his normal self, nice to see him contribute. |
Did u watch the game or just the scoreboard? |
Since you are questioning IG if he watched the game let's be fair and read your analysis of Zubac's game detailing what has been his problem(s) this pre-season. I don't see any context to your comments.
While stats don't tell the whole story they have been good for the most part including his +/-. If you trust DB's game analysis and I do he does not paint the gloom and doom picture of Zu's game as I see here. |
According to Reddit his 36 min per stat in scoring is 20.8 in the pre-season, I know the per stat is can be very useless but I find it hard to believe that with all the whining by fans, 1 would think Zu was completely invisible on the court, I think he’s been playing pretty well considering his fever. |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29074
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | He’s getting back to his normal self, nice to see him contribute. |
Did u watch the game or just the scoreboard? |
Since you are questioning IG if he watched the game let's be fair and read your analysis of Zubac's game detailing what has been his problem(s) this pre-season. I don't see any context to your comments.
While stats don't tell the whole story they have been good for the most part including his +/-. If you trust DB's game analysis and I do he does not paint the gloom and doom picture of Zu's game as I see here. |
According to Reddit his 36 min per stat in scoring is 20.8 in the pre-season, I know the per stat is can be very useless but I find it hard to believe that with all the whining by fans, 1 would think Zu was completely invisible on the court, I think he’s been playing pretty well considering his fever. |
Do the Reddit stats include the level of competition he was facing? I agree he looked good against guys auditioning for G-League roster spots. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | | Last year the Lakers played really fast and Zu got left behind. This year they're playing video game speed and he's sort of in the same boat despite getting in better shape. Where he looked best was running high PnR with Russell. |
And last season with IT running the same action.
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | He’s getting back to his normal self, nice to see him contribute. |
Did u watch the game or just the scoreboard? |
Since you are questioning IG if he watched the game let's be fair and read your analysis of Zubac's game detailing what has been his problem(s) this pre-season. I don't see any context to your comments.
While stats don't tell the whole story they have been good for the most part including his +/-. If you trust DB's game analysis and I do he does not paint the gloom and doom picture of Zu's game as I see here. |
According to Reddit his 36 min per stat in scoring is 20.8 in the pre-season, I know the per stat is can be very useless but I find it hard to believe that with all the whining by fans, 1 would think Zu was completely invisible on the court, I think he’s been playing pretty well considering his fever. |
Do the Reddit stats include the level of competition he was facing? I agree he looked good against guys auditioning for G-League roster spots. |
Can't you say that for the majority of players in the pre-season. Of course some of them still don't look good. |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7924
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | He’s getting back to his normal self, nice to see him contribute. |
Did u watch the game or just the scoreboard? |
Since you are questioning IG if he watched the game let's be fair and read your analysis of Zubac's game detailing what has been his problem(s) this pre-season. I don't see any context to your comments.
While stats don't tell the whole story they have been good for the most part including his +/-. If you trust DB's game analysis and I do he does not paint the gloom and doom picture of Zu's game as I see here. |
According to Reddit his 36 min per stat in scoring is 20.8 in the pre-season, I know the per stat is can be very useless but I find it hard to believe that with all the whining by fans, 1 would think Zu was completely invisible on the court, I think he’s been playing pretty well considering his fever. |
Do the Reddit stats include the level of competition he was facing? I agree he looked good against guys auditioning for G-League roster spots. |
We'll, that was the level of his teammates also, so for someone without on the ball duties it evens out a lot.
Honestly, any second spent with Stephenson on the floor should be stricken from the stats of all his teammates. |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley |
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cathy78
Star Player
Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1416
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I really wish we could see him in practice. There must be something that makes the coaches and FO hold on to him. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The Juggernaut wrote: | | Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley |
Good news is they can sign Ed Davis next summer!
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CRoost
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Joined: 21 Mar 2017
Posts: 4798
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | He’s getting back to his normal self, nice to see him contribute. |
Did u watch the game or just the scoreboard? |
Since you are questioning IG if he watched the game let's be fair and read your analysis of Zubac's game detailing what has been his problem(s) this pre-season. I don't see any context to your comments.
While stats don't tell the whole story they have been good for the most part including his +/-. If you trust DB's game analysis and I do he does not paint the gloom and doom picture of Zu's game as I see here. |
According to Reddit his 36 min per stat in scoring is 20.8 in the pre-season, I know the per stat is can be very useless but I find it hard to believe that with all the whining by fans, 1 would think Zu was completely invisible on the court, I think he’s been playing pretty well considering his fever. |
Not a fan of per 36 unless I believed he’s a starter type of player. Zu at this point is not |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46681
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley |
Good news is they can sign Ed Davis next summer! |
They can trade for him as early as December if he doesn’t become a good fit in Brooklyn. |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| cathy78 wrote: | | I really wish we could see him in practice. There must be something that makes the coaches and FO hold on to him. |
 A very nice conjecture.
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Last edited by Annihilator on Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| CRoost wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Jesusdelonla wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | He’s getting back to his normal self, nice to see him contribute. |
Did u watch the game or just the scoreboard? |
Since you are questioning IG if he watched the game let's be fair and read your analysis of Zubac's game detailing what has been his problem(s) this pre-season. I don't see any context to your comments.
While stats don't tell the whole story they have been good for the most part including his +/-. If you trust DB's game analysis and I do he does not paint the gloom and doom picture of Zu's game as I see here. |
According to Reddit his 36 min per stat in scoring is 20.8 in the pre-season, I know the per stat is can be very useless but I find it hard to believe that with all the whining by fans, 1 would think Zu was completely invisible on the court, I think he’s been playing pretty well considering his fever. |
Not a fan of per 36 unless I believed he’s a starter type of player. Zu at this point is not |
Per 36 at least provides some context to a players numbers.
Seeing 8/4/1 is not that explanatory unless you know how much minutes they are playing and even then the players impact may be underestimated. |
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The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley |
Good news is they can sign Ed Davis next summer! |
It really sucks that the FO didn't get a decent backup C. Rebounding and interior defense is going to be a big problem for us when Javale is on the bench. |
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Shaber
Star Player
Joined: 12 Mar 2006
Posts: 3732
Location: The other side
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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The thing with discussing Zu's game is that fans evaluate him with the standards of a starter. He sure is not a starter caliber player (yet?). So, one should look at him as a backup and evaluate with these standards. But that is a hard thing to do for a fan.
People want to have three starter caliber centers on a team and who can blame them?
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Lakers depth chart
PG Johnson / Goodrich
SG Bryant / West / Scott
SF Baylor / Worthy / Cooper
PF Mikkelsen / Hairston / McAdoo / Gasol
C Chamberlain / Abdul-Jabbar / O'Neal / Mikan |
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japanesebeef1
Star Player
Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1473
Location: Colton, CA
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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I like Zu, and I had high hopes for him. But I'm not a believer any more. He's not self motivated.
I've never seen him first down the floor, to be expected of a young center, but I've never seen him be the first to START down the floor. It seems he's always waiting for instructions on where to go and what to do and IF he should hustle.
Not a good sign. I predict he takes an early retirement in his 20's, takes his money and heads back to Europe. I think he's Darko reincarnated. Glad we only lost a 2'nd rounder on him. |
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Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12861
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | Last year the Lakers played really fast and Zu got left behind. This year they're playing video game speed and he's sort of in the same boat despite getting in better shape. Where he looked best was running high PnR with Russell. |
And last season with IT running the same action. |
Also true. Zu is a huge body that gets the guard pretty good separation. Then when he rolls he has good hands. The guard has to be a threat to shoot though. Otherwise the defense just hangs back and the play blows up.
Other than LeBron, this team doesn't really have the right guard to maximize Zu. |
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Judah
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759
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| Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Shaber wrote: | The thing with discussing Zu's game is that fans evaluate him with the standards of a starter. He sure is not a starter caliber player (yet?). So, one should look at him as a backup and evaluate with these standards. But that is a hard thing to do for a fan.
People want to have three starter caliber centers on a team and who can blame them? |
I don't think that's it. I think people are questioning whether or not he's been making any significant improvement on a yearly basis. It's about where he is in his development today when compared to his rookie year.
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RI Laker
Star Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7157
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:40 am Post subject: |
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Zu is what he is. A gifted 3rd string center who is a foreign pup who has a chance to further develop. We have nothing really invested in him (2nd round pick who is getting paid peanuts). What do people expect from a 3rd string center. There is no denying he has a very nice touch on the offensive side of the ball. He shoots with both hands, has nice post up moves, hits his free throws. and is getting better at setting picks. Defensively, he looks like he has improved (although he still has mental lapses). I believe the weight loss will pay dividends and he will be useful especially against some of the bigger centers who are threats offensively (not many of them but there are enough that Zu's length will be handy and keeping him in tow will be advantageous).
I read a post about his motivation (questioning why at his young age he is not the first down the floor). We have seen it this preseason and his weight loss allows him to do it.
http://www.nba.com/video/2018/10/04/0011800027-sac-lal-ivica-zubac-block-and-dunk |
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley
It really sucks that the FO didn't get a decent backup C. Rebounding and interior defense is going to be a big problem for us when Javale is on the bench. |
This is the perception that is repeated often here and consequently it is perceived as true but never any data points are included to support these statements.
For 2017
DRPM 1.81
DBPM 0.5
Reb per 36 10.8
Blk per 36 1.7
Just for reference Brandon Ingram
DRPM -0.28
DBPM 0.3
Granted Zubac played limited minutes but also need to account he was only 20 last season and learning the American game vs. intl.
Yes numbers don't necessarily tell the whole story but just repeating the above mantra without any context to support those statements does not make it true.
Note I also previously posted Zu's offensive stats for both NBA and G league. |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| PlantedTanks wrote: | | Quote: | Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley
It really sucks that the FO didn't get a decent backup C. Rebounding and interior defense is going to be a big problem for us when Javale is on the bench. |
This is the perception that is repeated often here and consequently it is perceived as true but never any data points are included to support these statements.
For 2017
DRPM 1.81
DBPM 0.5
Reb per 36 10.8
Blk per 36 1.7
Just for reference Brandon Ingram
DRPM -0.28
DBPM 0.3
Granted Zubac played limited minutes but also need to account he was only 20 last season and learning the American game vs. intl.
Yes numbers don't necessarily tell the whole story but just repeating the above mantra without any context to support those statements does not make it true.
Note I also previously posted Zu's offensive stats for both NBA and G league. |
Zubac's fivethirtyeight.com career projection (link). They project that he will be a role player. I hope he does better than that.
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PlantedTanks
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jul 2017
Posts: 3156
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | PlantedTanks wrote: | | Quote: | Zu is not a good player and is a terrible fit for our team. He's an outdated jurassic center that may have been a decent rotation journeyman in the 90s and early 2000s. We should have signed Ed Davis instead of Michael Beasley
It really sucks that the FO didn't get a decent backup C. Rebounding and interior defense is going to be a big problem for us when Javale is on the bench. |
This is the perception that is repeated often here and consequently it is perceived as true but never any data points are included to support these statements.
For 2017
DRPM 1.81
DBPM 0.5
Reb per 36 10.8
Blk per 36 1.7
Just for reference Brandon Ingram
DRPM -0.28
DBPM 0.3
Granted Zubac played limited minutes but also need to account he was only 20 last season and learning the American game vs. intl.
Yes numbers don't necessarily tell the whole story but just repeating the above mantra without any context to support those statements does not make it true.
Note I also previously posted Zu's offensive stats for both NBA and G league. |
Zubac's fivethirtyeight.com career projection (link). They project that he will be a role player. I hope he does better than that. |
Same but if he is a career role player that is a player every team needs to be a success.
However looking at the comparison players in the link I feel he should exceed most if not all listed. |
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Bishop*
Starting Rotation
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 120
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| japanesebeef1 wrote: | I like Zu, and I had high hopes for him. But I'm not a believer any more. He's not self motivated.
I've never seen him first down the floor, to be expected of a young center, but I've never seen him be the first to START down the floor. It seems he's always waiting for instructions on where to go and what to do and IF he should hustle.
Not a good sign. I predict he takes an early retirement in his 20's, takes his money and heads back to Europe. I think he's Darko reincarnated. Glad we only lost a 2'nd rounder on him. |
Exactly my thought on him as well. He has the talent but he does not seem to have the hunger to make him better or hustle on the floor. Anytime there is a little fire on his ass you see him shine a bit and when he gets comfortable he disappears. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bishop* wrote: | | japanesebeef1 wrote: | I like Zu, and I had high hopes for him. But I'm not a believer any more. He's not self motivated.
I've never seen him first down the floor, to be expected of a young center, but I've never seen him be the first to START down the floor. It seems he's always waiting for instructions on where to go and what to do and IF he should hustle.
Not a good sign. I predict he takes an early retirement in his 20's, takes his money and heads back to Europe. I think he's Darko reincarnated. Glad we only lost a 2'nd rounder on him. |
Exactly my thought on him as well. He has the talent but he does not seem to have the hunger to make him better or hustle on the floor. Anytime there is a little fire on his ass you see him shine a bit and when he gets comfortable he disappears. |
Losing Larry broke him. He needs to take a minimum deal with Cleveland next summer to get his career back on track.
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waterman40
Star Player
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Posts: 6287
Location: Central Coast
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2018 6:52 am Post subject: |
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This is likely a make or break year for Zubac, but for a guy still on a minimum deal, I'm really not sweating it. If we part ways with him at $1.5 million, then we got what we could from a minimum wage player.
My concern as always is with the guys we really pay serious coin to:
Kcp $12 million
Rondo $9 million
Lance $4 million?
These are the vets making a nice NBA salary that need to produce. I imagine BI is making $5-6 million a year, and we expect a return on his investment, but I fully expect him and Lonzo to give us at the very least decent performance.
Lebron, we know he will play well. Guys on rookie and veteran minimum deals, I try to have measured expectations. Guys who are not stars getting overpaid, that is where I get miffed.
Zubac not so much.
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