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kobe_luver
Franchise Player
Joined: 08 Feb 2008
Posts: 11644
Location: LA
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 Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitch Kupchak wrote: | | tox wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Boldarblood wrote: | We paid what we had to.
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Who knows? A number of comparable centers signed for much less, so maybe our outbid-everyone-in-the-opening-minute-of-free-agency strategy meant we were just bidding against ourselves.
We'll never know. I would have preferred to wait or limit it to a two-year deal. Water under the bridge. It is what it is.
But we probably know whether the deal is a win, lose or neutral until 2018, which is the point when we might be regretting the lost cap space. |
Fingers crossed that amnesty is an option on the table at that point |
Did we ever use the amnesty given to every team this last time around? I just don't recall us using it. My understanding is that the amnesty would be good until the next negotiations (which is guess would be soon to expire anyways). I still think it's absolutely sad that we let ourselves get to this position. Obviously I wasn't the happiest of campers with the Moz acquisition. Obviously wasn't too happy with the amount we chose to pay the guy, but what annoyed me the most was the length given to this 30+ year old that's known for being injury prone. Same applies to Deng (length wise, of course). |
Injury prone....he had a cyst in his knee. |
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Megaton
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Joined: 18 Feb 2015
Posts: 25648
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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Sago
Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005
Posts: 1737
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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We should trade for him! Effective big man. |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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He's ours and it looks like he's gonna have a good year next year, way better then Hibbert/Boozer/Hill and other junk cause Mozgov can actually Impact games.
I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna be proven wrong with this signing. |
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True Lakers Fan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 917
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | He's ours and it looks like he's gonna have a good year next year, way better then Hibbert/Boozer/Hill and other junk cause Mozgov can actually Impact games.
I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna be proven wrong with this signing. |
He's obviously trolling you because you want to trade for every player in the league.
_________________
I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying. |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| True Lakers Fan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | He's ours and it looks like he's gonna have a good year next year, way better then Hibbert/Boozer/Hill and other junk cause Mozgov can actually Impact games.
I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna be proven wrong with this signing. |
He's obviously trolling you because you want to trade for every player in the league. |
Yep.
Call me the ESPN trade checker, cause I'm diffinitely irritating you when I'm trying to find ways to Improve the team right? |
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True Lakers Fan
Starting Rotation
Joined: 28 Oct 2011
Posts: 917
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | True Lakers Fan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | He's ours and it looks like he's gonna have a good year next year, way better then Hibbert/Boozer/Hill and other junk cause Mozgov can actually Impact games.
I have a feeling a lot of people are gonna be proven wrong with this signing. |
He's obviously trolling you because you want to trade for every player in the league. |
Yep.
Call me the ESPN trade checker, cause I'm diffinitely irritating you when I'm trying to find ways to Improve the team right? |
Your trade "ideas" are completely unrealistic though
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I can accept failure, but I can't accept not trying. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kobe_luver wrote: | | Mitch Kupchak wrote: | | tox wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | Boldarblood wrote: | We paid what we had to.
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Who knows? A number of comparable centers signed for much less, so maybe our outbid-everyone-in-the-opening-minute-of-free-agency strategy meant we were just bidding against ourselves.
We'll never know. I would have preferred to wait or limit it to a two-year deal. Water under the bridge. It is what it is.
But we probably know whether the deal is a win, lose or neutral until 2018, which is the point when we might be regretting the lost cap space. |
Fingers crossed that amnesty is an option on the table at that point |
Did we ever use the amnesty given to every team this last time around? I just don't recall us using it. My understanding is that the amnesty would be good until the next negotiations (which is guess would be soon to expire anyways). I still think it's absolutely sad that we let ourselves get to this position. Obviously I wasn't the happiest of campers with the Moz acquisition. Obviously wasn't too happy with the amount we chose to pay the guy, but what annoyed me the most was the length given to this 30+ year old that's known for being injury prone. Same applies to Deng (length wise, of course). |
Injury prone....he had a cyst in his knee. |
Also, to answer the question, we used the amnesty provision on mwp.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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fiendishoc
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 8488
Location: The (real) short corner
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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LAkers 4 Life
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 14629
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| Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
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lakerican
Star Player
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3793
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:59 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
To tell you the truth, I think Mosgov will have a better season than Bogut. |
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Jim99187
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jan 2014
Posts: 22138
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:17 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
Bogut is injury prone crap. I have seen him all games last year |
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Inspector Gadget
Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
To tell you the truth, I think Mosgov will have a better season than Bogut. |
Few things Mozgov has over Bogut and the current Lakers roster and system:
He's more mobile and can run better in transition
He can hit the 15-18ft jump-shot unlike Byiombo/Bogut/Ezeli
He has more IQ then most of the big man that was on the FA market which is what Luke wanted in a big man.
But I'm guessing fans are gonna ignore these reasons and still piss and moan about the signing. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
I keep seeing references to the amnesty provision being used on Mozgov.
How realistic is it to even be a part of the next CBA? Any links to the probabilities or just wishful thinking by some?
I am not as concerned as some are about the four year contract. Assuming Zubac and potentially Black develop he will likely be a productive bench player in the fourth year even with an assumed drop-off.
I'm more concerned about what positives he brings to the team for the next couple. IMO perhaps a bit overpriced but the combination of solid center play and mentorship makes it worth it. |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54624
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
I keep seeing references to the amnesty provision being used on Mozgov.
How realistic is it to even be a part of the next CBA? Any links to the probabilities or just wishful thinking by some?
I am not as concerned as some are about the four year contract. Assuming Zubac and potentially Black develop he will likely be a productive bench player in the fourth year even with an assumed drop-off.
I'm more concerned about what positives he brings to the team for the next couple. IMO perhaps a bit overpriced but the combination of solid center play and mentorship makes it worth it. |
He will potentially contribute more than Hibbert did last season, at least initially, so overpriced is a slightly overrated term in this case. The only negative is the length of the contract but I'm sure Mitch has a long term plan in mind. |
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JH from Hemet
Starting Rotation
Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 518
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:57 am Post subject: |
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| LAkers 4 Life wrote: | | It's not a good thing when fans are already thinking of using an amnesty provision on a guy that has yet to play for the team that just signed him. That pretty tells you what we know of the deal. Too much money and too many years and the Lakers' abysmal last few seasons handcuffed them in negotiations. In hindsight, especially with some more details of the deal coming out, the Lakers would have been better served if they could have traded for Bogut's expiring deal instead of signing Mozgov. They would've gotten another second round pick out of the deal too. |
Yes because armchair GM's are so right all the time vs the professionals that get paid the big bucks to evaluate
Jesus give me a break....  |
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JH from Hemet
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Joined: 25 Jun 2016
Posts: 518
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:59 am Post subject: |
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| The funny thing here is Moz is probably gonna come out and play well (im no pro...just karma for all the crap talking fans) |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| JH from Hemet wrote: | | The funny thing here is Moz is probably gonna come out and play well (im no pro...just karma for all the crap talking fans) |
The funnier part is that most people on LG check the stats and think anyone who doesn't qualify to put up all star stats automatically becomes a scrub, but yet Bogut wasn't putting up huge numbers when he was a big reason they won the title in 2015. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| JH from Hemet wrote: | | The funny thing here is Moz is probably gonna come out and play well (im no pro...just karma for all the crap talking fans) |
Depends on the expectations of the meaning of "play well".
Some are disappointed because Mozgov isn't freakishly athletic, blocks shots into the third row or make the highlight reel lob dunk. Same as others wanted a 3pt shooting center to "stretch the floor".
Mozgov is not either of those centers. He will quietly play good basketball. Do all the little things like set solid screens, make defensive rotations and produce 10/8 stat lines while providing a consistent defensive foundation.
He will not likely be on TMZ and he will be a mature professional presence on a young team. He will help the young players understand the hard work on and off the court to win games in the NBA.
Those are my expectations of Mozgov "playing well". |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17680
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Player A
6.3pts/4.4reb/0.4ast/0.8blk/0.3stl 56FG% 71FT% PER 14.63 17.4MPG
Player B
5.5pts/4.8reb/0.8ast/1.1blk/0.8stl 60FG% 71FT% 21.35 PER 13.3MPG
Player A Per 36
12.9/9.1/0.9/1.5/0.6
Player B
14.8/13.3/2.3/3.1/2.1
*Player B better across the board
Advanced Stats
Player A -.133-WS/48 1.9-DWS (-1.2) Box Plus Minus 14.4%-TRB% 3.5-Block %
Player B- .209-WS/48 2-DWS +4 Box Plus Minus 19.6%-TRB% 6.7 Block %
Player A 64M/4 years 30 years old
Player B 15M/2 years 27 years old
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though."
Last edited by dcarter4kobe on Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17680
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:12 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | JH from Hemet wrote: | | The funny thing here is Moz is probably gonna come out and play well (im no pro...just karma for all the crap talking fans) |
Depends on the expectations of the meaning of "play well".
Some are disappointed because Mozgov isn't freakishly athletic, blocks shots into the third row or make the highlight reel lob dunk. Same as others wanted a 3pt shooting center to "stretch the floor".
Mozgov is not either of those centers. He will quietly play good basketball. Do all the little things like set solid screens, make defensive rotations and produce 10/8 stat lines while providing a consistent defensive foundation.
He will not likely be on TMZ and he will be a mature professional presence on a young team. He will help the young players understand the hard work on and off the court to win games in the NBA.
Those are my expectations of Mozgov "playing well". |
I'm sure Mozgov will "play well" atleast for the first 2 seasons of the contract. I'm just not a fan of giving up the cap flexibility of having2 max contracts available when our young guys are actually ready to make some noise in the future for a guy that will likely only play 23-25MPG and doesn't move the needle much.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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epak
Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Player A
6.3pts/4.4reb/0.4ast/0.8blk/0.3stl 56FG% 71FT% PER 14.63
Player B
5.5pts/4.8reb/0.8ast/1.1blk/0.8stl 60FG% 71FT% 21.35 PER 13.3MPG
Player A Per 36
12.9/9.1/0.9/1.5/0.6
Player B
14.8/13.3/2.3/3.1/2.1
*Player B better across the board
Advanced Stats
Player A -.133-WS/48 1.9-DWS (-1.2) Box Plus Minus 14.4%-TRB% 3.5-Block %
Player B- .209-WS/48 2-DWS +4 Box Plus Minus 19.6%-TRB% 6.7 Block %
Player A 64M/4 years
Player B 15M/2 years |
I go with Player A.
Right answer? |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8160
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| epak wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Player A
6.3pts/4.4reb/0.4ast/0.8blk/0.3stl 56FG% 71FT% PER 14.63
Player B
5.5pts/4.8reb/0.8ast/1.1blk/0.8stl 60FG% 71FT% 21.35 PER 13.3MPG
Player A Per 36
12.9/9.1/0.9/1.5/0.6
Player B
14.8/13.3/2.3/3.1/2.1
*Player B better across the board
Advanced Stats
Player A -.133-WS/48 1.9-DWS (-1.2) Box Plus Minus 14.4%-TRB% 3.5-Block %
Player B- .209-WS/48 2-DWS +4 Box Plus Minus 19.6%-TRB% 6.7 Block %
Player A 64M/4 years
Player B 15M/2 years |
I go with Player A.
Right answer? |
For me it is. Apparently not for everyone.
Aldrich looks good statistically when getting 13mpg as a backup.
Curious of the presumed reasoning of why Walton and Kupchak ignored Aldrich since he was a free agent and likely under consideration during the same conversations when they chose to pursue Mozgov. Wonder if they rate Mozgov differently then the stats do.
Actually suggested him before free agency started and that was not received well by many. Same as a Greg Monroe suggestion. He was actually a fulltime contributor at 29 mpg and an impressive PER of 21.87.
Lakers did not choose to sign him either. Puzzling? |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17680
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| Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | | epak wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Player A
6.3pts/4.4reb/0.4ast/0.8blk/0.3stl 56FG% 71FT% PER 14.63
Player B
5.5pts/4.8reb/0.8ast/1.1blk/0.8stl 60FG% 71FT% 21.35 PER 13.3MPG
Player A Per 36
12.9/9.1/0.9/1.5/0.6
Player B
14.8/13.3/2.3/3.1/2.1
*Player B better across the board
Advanced Stats
Player A -.133-WS/48 1.9-DWS (-1.2) Box Plus Minus 14.4%-TRB% 3.5-Block %
Player B- .209-WS/48 2-DWS +4 Box Plus Minus 19.6%-TRB% 6.7 Block %
Player A 64M/4 years
Player B 15M/2 years |
I go with Player A.
Right answer? |
For me it is. Apparently not for everyone.
Aldrich looks good statistically when getting 13mpg as a backup.
Curious of the presumed reasoning of why Walton and Kupchak ignored Aldrich since he was a free agent and likely under consideration during the same conversations when they chose to pursue Mozgov. Wonder if they rate Mozgov differently then the stats do.
Actually suggested him before free agency started and that was not received well by many. Same as a Greg Monroe suggestion. He was actually a fulltime contributor at 29 mpg and an impressive PER of 21.87.
Lakers did not choose to sign him either. Puzzling? |
The same reason we traded for Roy Hibbert last year instead of signing Biyombo on the cheap like I advocated for. Bigger name/track record.
Aldrich is the better PnR defender, shot blocker, rebounder, passer, and younger/healthier. Yes Aldrich only played a back up role last year (like Mozgov) but both would of only been only asked to play 23-25MPG this coming season.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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