Kevin Durant will join the Golden State Warriors (Official)
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:22 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
^ I won't lie man, I'm looking forward to the spectacle.


Same here, JB ...

I cannot wait to see Westbrook go at Durant. He is gonna try to light that (bleep) up. That match-up alone will be Must See TV next season.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 1:48 am    Post subject:

the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ I won't lie man, I'm looking forward to the spectacle.


Same here, JB ...

I cannot wait to see Westbrook go at Durant. He is gonna try to light that (bleep) up. That match-up alone will be Must See TV next season.



Yep. This GSW team is going to be absolutely nuclear. People are going to silly lengths trying to find common ground with teams past. Just stop it. This is basically adding a top 3 player (or even 2) to a dominant, championship caliber, 73 win team. Come back to me if KG decided to join the Lakers in 2002. Or if Lebron joined the year right after the Celtics won 66 games and pasted us in game 6. Better yet, if Bird decided to join the Lakers in 88. There is nothing comparable to this and those core 4 are barely entering their primes. Upgrading Harrison (bleep)-show Barnes to the most lethal offensive weapon since prime Bean Braynt. Sick.

If they're healthy and somehow lose a series, there better not be one single person under God's green earth that whines about some great injustice. They're a fighter walking into the ring, juiced to the gills. I expect heads to go flying in every game they play. Anything less for me is a disappointment.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:19 am    Post subject:

the association wrote:
^^^

Epic post, but it fails to grasp a salient point re: Kevin Durant's signing from the NBA's perspective. Specifically, Durant (2016 Second Team All NBA, #5 in 2016 MVP Vote ... also, a 27 year old with a five year run of First Team All NBA nods in his rearview mirror) joined a team that won 73 games in 2016, which is already comprised of ...

1. Steph Curry (27 years old; 2016 and 2015 First Team All NBA, 2x Reigning MVP [2015 - 2016])
2. Draymond Green (26 years old; 2016 Second Team All NBA, 2x Reigning DPOY Runner-up [2015 - 2016])
3. Klay Thompson (26 years old; 2016 and 2015 Third Team All NBA)
4. Andre Iguodala (32 years old; #2 in 2016 Sixth Man Vote, #4 in 2015 Sixth Man Vote)
5. Coach Steve Kerr (2016 NBA Coach of the Year, #2 in 2015 NBA Coach of the Year Vote)

This lineup is nothing like the Heat. If the Heatles version of LeBron is the equivalent of 2016 Steph, the Heatles version of Dwyane Wade would maybe be the equivalent of 2016 Klay (and that's a generous assessment considering the average level of play and availability Wade brought to bear from 2011 - 2014). The Heatles version of Chris Bosh is certainly below the performance levels of 2016 Durant AND 2016 Draymond Green (Bosh has one Second Team All NBA nod in his career, in 2007). But even if you give him extra credit and compare him to Green, the Warriors still have Kevin Durant AND Andre Iguodala, both of whom are significantly better than anyone else the Heatles rolled out during their four year run. And in Durant's case, the argument can reasonably be made that he's basically a LeBron-level player.

If the Heat had the 2011 - 2014 versions of LeBron, Wade and Bosh, PLUS prime Dwight Howard and maybe someone like prime Lamar Odom (because on a combined basis, the 2016 versions of Kevin Durant and Andre Iguodala are AT LEAST as productive as prime Howard and prime Odom) ... that would be an equivalent roster to compare to the 2016/2017 Golden State Warriors. But they didn't have anything approaching that lopsided of a roster ...

This lineup is nothing like the current Cavaliers. If the Cavs version of LeBron is the equivalent of 2016 Steph, the Cavs version of Kyrie Irving would maybe be the equivalent of 2016 Klay. The Cavs version of Kevin Love is certainly below the performance levels of 2016 Durant AND 2016 Draymond Green (Love has two Second Team All NBA nods in his career, in 2012 and 2014). But even if you give him extra credit and compare him to Durant (which is extraordinarily generous, frankly), the Warriors still have Draymond Green AND Andre Iguodala, both of whom are significantly better than anyone else the Cavs are currently rolling out. And in Green's case (given his play on both ends of the court), the argument can reasonably be made that he's basically a Irving-level player. If you disagree, check out the MVP voting.

If the Cavs had the 2016 versions of LeBron, Irving and Love, PLUS prime Tyson Chandler and maybe someone like prime Manu Ginobili (because on a combined basis, the 2016 versions of Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala are AT LEAST as productive as prime Chandler and prime Ginobili) ... that would be an equivalent roster to compare to the 2016/2017 Golden State Warriors. But again, they didn't have anything approaching that lopsided of a roster ...

Look at those equivalent Heatles and Cavalier line-ups again ... what kind of shop would those teams wreck in the NBA? Bottom line: You might not understand the VAST differences between this Golden State situation and the others that have come before, but others do (e.g., Adam Silver) ...


That's because the point of my entire post had nothing to do with The Warrior's lineup vs the Heat's lineups at all, it was and is about something else entirely.

I'll still reply to this though, after I get some rest.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:51 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
the association wrote:
^^^

Epic post, but it fails to grasp a salient point re: Kevin Durant's signing from the NBA's perspective. Specifically, Durant (2016 Second Team All NBA, #5 in 2016 MVP Vote ... also, a 27 year old with a five year run of First Team All NBA nods in his rearview mirror) joined a team that won 73 games in 2016, which is already comprised of ...

1. Steph Curry (27 years old; 2016 and 2015 First Team All NBA, 2x Reigning MVP [2015 - 2016])
2. Draymond Green (26 years old; 2016 Second Team All NBA, 2x Reigning DPOY Runner-up [2015 - 2016])
3. Klay Thompson (26 years old; 2016 and 2015 Third Team All NBA)
4. Andre Iguodala (32 years old; #2 in 2016 Sixth Man Vote, #4 in 2015 Sixth Man Vote)
5. Coach Steve Kerr (2016 NBA Coach of the Year, #2 in 2015 NBA Coach of the Year Vote)

This lineup is nothing like the Heat. If the Heatles version of LeBron is the equivalent of 2016 Steph, the Heatles version of Dwyane Wade would maybe be the equivalent of 2016 Klay (and that's a generous assessment considering the average level of play and availability Wade brought to bear from 2011 - 2014). The Heatles version of Chris Bosh is certainly below the performance levels of 2016 Durant AND 2016 Draymond Green (Bosh has one Second Team All NBA nod in his career, in 2007). But even if you give him extra credit and compare him to Green, the Warriors still have Kevin Durant AND Andre Iguodala, both of whom are significantly better than anyone else the Heatles rolled out during their four year run. And in Durant's case, the argument can reasonably be made that he's basically a LeBron-level player.

If the Heat had the 2011 - 2014 versions of LeBron, Wade and Bosh, PLUS prime Dwight Howard and maybe someone like prime Lamar Odom (because on a combined basis, the 2016 versions of Kevin Durant and Andre Iguodala are AT LEAST as productive as prime Howard and prime Odom) ... that would be an equivalent roster to compare to the 2016/2017 Golden State Warriors. But they didn't have anything approaching that lopsided of a roster ...

This lineup is nothing like the current Cavaliers. If the Cavs version of LeBron is the equivalent of 2016 Steph, the Cavs version of Kyrie Irving would maybe be the equivalent of 2016 Klay. The Cavs version of Kevin Love is certainly below the performance levels of 2016 Durant AND 2016 Draymond Green (Love has two Second Team All NBA nods in his career, in 2012 and 2014). But even if you give him extra credit and compare him to Durant (which is extraordinarily generous, frankly), the Warriors still have Draymond Green AND Andre Iguodala, both of whom are significantly better than anyone else the Cavs are currently rolling out. And in Green's case (given his play on both ends of the court), the argument can reasonably be made that he's basically a Irving-level player. If you disagree, check out the MVP voting.

If the Cavs had the 2016 versions of LeBron, Irving and Love, PLUS prime Tyson Chandler and maybe someone like prime Manu Ginobili (because on a combined basis, the 2016 versions of Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala are AT LEAST as productive as prime Chandler and prime Ginobili) ... that would be an equivalent roster to compare to the 2016/2017 Golden State Warriors. But again, they didn't have anything approaching that lopsided of a roster ...

Look at those equivalent Heatles and Cavalier line-ups again ... what kind of shop would those teams wreck in the NBA? Bottom line: You might not understand the VAST differences between this Golden State situation and the others that have come before, but others do (e.g., Adam Silver) ...


That's because the point of my entire post had nothing to do with The Warrior's lineup vs the Heat's lineups at all, it was and is about something else entirely.

I'll still reply to this though, after I get some rest.


OK, I'm looking forward to seeing your further thoughts.

FWIW, it appeared to me that your "parity fallacy" analysis relied heavily on the demonstrated dominance of the Heat and the Cavaliers in the EC over the past ten years as a natural foundation for Durant's signing with the Warriors. And my point was simply that the dominance of those Miami and Cleveland organizations has really stemmed from one individual, which is very, very, very different from Golden State's evolution with Durant's signing this offseason. And that's why, in my view, many are bristling at the move, including NBA Commissioner Adam Silver. With a potential new CBA on the horizon, Silver's perspective matters ... and already, the projected cap for the 2017/2018 season has been reduced in a manner that many expect will adversely affect the chances that Golden State can retain everyone currently comprising their core. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, these moves are almost certainly going to affect the options for Lacob & Co. ...
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:27 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
MJST wrote:
the association wrote:
^^^

Epic post, but it fails to grasp a salient point re: Kevin Durant's signing from the NBA's perspective. Specifically, Durant (2016 Second Team All NBA, #5 in 2016 MVP Vote ... also, a 27 year old with a five year run of First Team All NBA nods in his rearview mirror) joined a team that won 73 games in 2016, which is already comprised of ...

1. Steph Curry (27 years old; 2016 and 2015 First Team All NBA, 2x Reigning MVP [2015 - 2016])
2. Draymond Green (26 years old; 2016 Second Team All NBA, 2x Reigning DPOY Runner-up [2015 - 2016])
3. Klay Thompson (26 years old; 2016 and 2015 Third Team All NBA)
4. Andre Iguodala (32 years old; #2 in 2016 Sixth Man Vote, #4 in 2015 Sixth Man Vote)
5. Coach Steve Kerr (2016 NBA Coach of the Year, #2 in 2015 NBA Coach of the Year Vote)

This lineup is nothing like the Heat. If the Heatles version of LeBron is the equivalent of 2016 Steph, the Heatles version of Dwyane Wade would maybe be the equivalent of 2016 Klay (and that's a generous assessment considering the average level of play and availability Wade brought to bear from 2011 - 2014). The Heatles version of Chris Bosh is certainly below the performance levels of 2016 Durant AND 2016 Draymond Green (Bosh has one Second Team All NBA nod in his career, in 2007). But even if you give him extra credit and compare him to Green, the Warriors still have Kevin Durant AND Andre Iguodala, both of whom are significantly better than anyone else the Heatles rolled out during their four year run. And in Durant's case, the argument can reasonably be made that he's basically a LeBron-level player.

If the Heat had the 2011 - 2014 versions of LeBron, Wade and Bosh, PLUS prime Dwight Howard and maybe someone like prime Lamar Odom (because on a combined basis, the 2016 versions of Kevin Durant and Andre Iguodala are AT LEAST as productive as prime Howard and prime Odom) ... that would be an equivalent roster to compare to the 2016/2017 Golden State Warriors. But they didn't have anything approaching that lopsided of a roster ...

This lineup is nothing like the current Cavaliers. If the Cavs version of LeBron is the equivalent of 2016 Steph, the Cavs version of Kyrie Irving would maybe be the equivalent of 2016 Klay. The Cavs version of Kevin Love is certainly below the performance levels of 2016 Durant AND 2016 Draymond Green (Love has two Second Team All NBA nods in his career, in 2012 and 2014). But even if you give him extra credit and compare him to Durant (which is extraordinarily generous, frankly), the Warriors still have Draymond Green AND Andre Iguodala, both of whom are significantly better than anyone else the Cavs are currently rolling out. And in Green's case (given his play on both ends of the court), the argument can reasonably be made that he's basically a Irving-level player. If you disagree, check out the MVP voting.

If the Cavs had the 2016 versions of LeBron, Irving and Love, PLUS prime Tyson Chandler and maybe someone like prime Manu Ginobili (because on a combined basis, the 2016 versions of Draymond Green and Andre Iguodala are AT LEAST as productive as prime Chandler and prime Ginobili) ... that would be an equivalent roster to compare to the 2016/2017 Golden State Warriors. But again, they didn't have anything approaching that lopsided of a roster ...

Look at those equivalent Heatles and Cavalier line-ups again ... what kind of shop would those teams wreck in the NBA? Bottom line: You might not understand the VAST differences between this Golden State situation and the others that have come before, but others do (e.g., Adam Silver) ...


That's because the point of my entire post had nothing to do with The Warrior's lineup vs the Heat's lineups at all, it was and is about something else entirely.

I'll still reply to this though, after I get some rest.


OK, I'm looking forward to seeing your further thoughts.

FWIW, it appeared to me that your "parity fallacy" analysis relied heavily on the demonstrated dominance of the Heat and the Cavaliers in the EC over the past ten years as a natural foundation for Durant's signing with the Warriors. And my point was simply that the dominance of those Miami and Cleveland organizations has really stemmed from one individual, which is very, very, very different from Golden State's evolution with Durant's signing this offseason. And that's why, in my view, many are bristling at the move, including NBA Commissioner Adam Silver. With a potential new CBA on the horizon, Silver's perspective matters ... and already, the projected cap for the 2017/2018 season has been reduced in a manner that many expect will adversely affect the chances that Golden State can retain everyone currently comprising their core. Whether anyone wants to believe it or not, these moves are almost certainly going to affect the options for Lacob & Co. ...


Yeah but that's the thing. There is no parity in the NBA, there hasn't been for a long time. The NBA depends on 'prolongued dominance' it always has, the NBA was on the verge of dying after the 70s when there was a new champion every year. It was Bird and Magic getting rid of that parity throughout the 80s that made the NBA watchable again and much more marketable. The NBA depends on that kind of stuff now.

The prolongued dominace by LeBron in the East keeps people paying attention to anything in the East, the prolongued dominance by the Lakers from 2000-2010 was good for the NBA.

Don't forget... there was only 3 'down years' in between Finals appearances. The Lakers

2000 - Finals
2001 - Finals
2002 - Finals
2003 - WCF
2004 - Finals
2005 - No Playoffs
2006 - First Round
2007 - First Round
2008 - Finals
2009 - Finals
2010 - Finals


That's 7 Finals appearances in 10 years. So again, we held a one team monopoly for the most part for 70% of the 2000s. It made the NBA able to build campaigns around Shaq, and then around Kobe in the West, and then around LeBron in the East, ESPECIALLY once the Miami big 3 was formed. But the NBA and or ESPN had pushed LeBron since he was 15 years old anyway, so him finally getting prolongued dominance on a team like Miami is what the NBA needed to make the East interesting.



So you may say "yeah but your parity is based upon the dominance of one player...."

That's why there is no parity in the NBA, the real 'best' players get the best teams eventually built around them and go on a run.

We could call the Lakers from 2000-2010 lack of parity on the dominance of Shaq and Kobe, and then on Kobe. Because we aren't in 7 Finals in 10 years without him.

Just as you could call the Cavs/Heat from 2007-2016 on LeBron James. The cavs don't make the Finals in 07 without LeBron, the Heat don't in 2011-14 without LeBron and the Cavs don't in 2015-16 without LeBron.

So you can't say "well the lack of parity is because of the dominance of one cause it doesn't count. When the lack of parity has ALWAYS been because of that.


Magic Johnson had a home grown team of
himself
Jamal Wilkes
James Worthy
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

That's the equivalent of having LeBron at the 1, and Shaq at the 5, with Klay Thompson on the wing and Draymond Green with better handles at the 3.

that's essentially what the Lakers had in their "Showtime" Days, and the league was saved because the Celtics had a super team themselves with Bird, McHale and others.

But you see the majority of the league was homegrown then because you literally COULD NOT leave the team you were drafted to do unless they traded you. So it just didn't happen.

But back to parity. You can't discount the parity in the East and say it's mainly because of LeBron, when the same parity happened in the West and it was mainly because of Shaq and Kobe.

The truly dominant generational players get a parity and the NBA thrives off it because then they can market it as sustained dominance and put a face on it.

Kevin Durant dominating, showing a mean streak, destroying competition AND winning 3 Finals MVP's with 3 Championships, is PRECISELY what the NBA needs.

Why? Because they have their money making market for the next 4-5 seasons, with Curry, Draymond and Durant in commercials, advertisements and box office gate.

AND you have a Superteam in the East in the Cavs that have LeBron James.


Do you know how BAD the NBA wanted to make a Lakers v Celtics rivalry? Well they've got one now. The Cavs vs the Warriors is going to be considered THE premiere Rivalry in the NBA from 2014 - 2020 and something the NBA desperately needed with the retirement of Kobe Bryant and LeBron starting to enter the twilight of his career.

The story the NBA had lived off for the past 2 seasons was LeBron bringing a championship to Cleveland. That happened...

But suddenly the story was gone, the Warriors had maybe another year as the best team in the West, considering injuries, style of play, etc etc. Golden State had a good 3 year run, much like the Detroit team that beat us in 2004 and ran till 2007 till the Celtics Superteam formed and Detroit faded away, a distant memory now and taking a backseat to the renewed Lakers v Celtics rivalry.

So there was really no story of interest going into the next NBA season, none whatsoever, people were just buckling in for the same ole same ole, LeBron going to the finals, the Warriors probably meeting them there and then after that it would be done.

Suddenly Durant signs with Warriors(like I'd been saying he would for months now) and BOOM.... stories are all over the place, the news can't stop talking about it, the entire sports world is talking.

They have their story.

Durant to the Warriors just saved the general interest in the NBA season for the next 4 seasons and the NBA thanks him. Now they got LeBron vs Durant and Kyrie vs Curry in the Finals for the next 4 years. They couldn't be happier.




So you see.. Parity almost killed the NBA in the 70s..and it has lived off the consistent dominance on both sides of the spectrum for the past 30 years since then. There was lack of parity in the West during the 90s after Magic's retirement, but the league had Michael Jordan and the Bulls, so it survived on that. Then after Jordan retired, Phil went to the Lakers along with Shaq and Kobe and from 2000-2010 appeared in 7 of 10 NBA finals and that was the story in the West, till LeBron came into the league in 2004 and suddenly the story became LeBron v Kobe.

You see? The NBA needs those faces, they need those stories. A "everyone different wins every year" atmosphere nearly killed the NBA. They need the lack of parity, dare say they survive on the lack of it. I accepted that a long time ago.

Despite the new 'underdog stories' it's still gonna be the same 4 teams at the top of it of the 30 in the league. That's just how it is.

LeBron / Kyrie vs. Durant / Curry is going to be MUST SEE TV for the next 4 seasons. Barring injuries on either end, by the end of this 4 year run LeBron will be talking pending retirement and Durant will have solidified himself among one of the best of all time with his stats and multiple rings and Finals MVPs, despite what people said when he initially went to Golden State.



Know what I want the next story to be?

The Lakers adding Andre Drummond or Anthony Davis to their team in Free Agency 2021 after D'Angelo Russell, Jordan Clarkson, Brandon Ingram and Julius Randle are rising as a team that can knock off the dynasty Warriors as the youngsters are coming into their primes and fully realizing their potential.

And that is what I want this Lakers team to be, the team that's looking to knock off the Warriors in 2021 on their way to their first Finals appearance, and guess what... in 2021.. that's precisely the story the NBA will want and need
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:25 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ I won't lie man, I'm looking forward to the spectacle.


Same here, JB ...

I cannot wait to see Westbrook go at Durant. He is gonna try to light that (bleep) up. That match-up alone will be Must See TV next season.



Yep. This GSW team is going to be absolutely nuclear. People are going to silly lengths trying to find common ground with teams past. Just stop it. This is basically adding a top 3 player (or even 2) to a dominant, championship caliber, 73 win team. Come back to me if KG decided to join the Lakers in 2002. Or if Lebron joined the year right after the Celtics won 66 games and pasted us in game 6. Better yet, if Bird decided to join the Lakers in 88. There is nothing comparable to this and those core 4 are barely entering their primes. Upgrading Harrison (bleep)-show Barnes to the most lethal offensive weapon since prime Bean Braynt. Sick.


Exactly. A poster stretched and strained to invoke the name of Jamaal Wilkes and Kareem from 87-89 as a comparison. Jamaal who was dumped in 85, btw. Coop was drafted in the 3rd round or thereabouts and he was used to argue that he was similar to Durant just jumping ship to GS. Only poster with enough historical knowledge and debating skills (and writing style) to craft a decent contrary argument is Da Verb.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ I won't lie man, I'm looking forward to the spectacle.


Same here, JB ...

I cannot wait to see Westbrook go at Durant. He is gonna try to light that (bleep) up. That match-up alone will be Must See TV next season.



Yep. This GSW team is going to be absolutely nuclear. People are going to silly lengths trying to find common ground with teams past. Just stop it. This is basically adding a top 3 player (or even 2) to a dominant, championship caliber, 73 win team. Come back to me if KG decided to join the Lakers in 2002. Or if Lebron joined the year right after the Celtics won 66 games and pasted us in game 6. Better yet, if Bird decided to join the Lakers in 88. There is nothing comparable to this and those core 4 are barely entering their primes. Upgrading Harrison (bleep)-show Barnes to the most lethal offensive weapon since prime Bean Braynt. Sick.


Exactly. A poster stretched and strained to invoke the name of Jamaal Wilkes and Kareem from 87-89 as a comparison. Jamaal who was dumped in 85, btw. Coop was drafted in the 3rd round or thereabouts and he was used to argue that he was similar to Durant just jumping ship to GS. Only poster with enough historical knowledge and debating skills (and writing style) to craft a decent contrary argument is Da Verb.


Wanna know the funny thing?

If there was a free agency, and McAdoo had left the Knicks at 27 and went to the Lakers, think he'd be talked about the way Durant is now? Only those that have never sen McAdoo wouldn't understand why he and Durant are very comparible.

The thing, McAdoo bounced around the league from 27 till he was 30 when the Lakers finally got him.

The amazing thing is, if Durant tried to "tough it out" in OKC for 4 more years he'd be a free agent at 31-32 and if he went to the Warriors THEN... he'd be considered just as McAdoo was when he finally arrived


But Durant decided not to wait till he was Payton or Malone's age to finally go to the best situation.


This would happen a LOT more often if there had been a home grown team as good as the Warriors have done it. They made a championship contender AND had max money. OF COURSE they are gonna land a big time free agent. Who wouldn't?


Do you think LeBron WOULDN'T have come here in the Summer of '11 if the Lakers were going to have max space and could land him while keeping Gasol and Odom?


Imagine if the Lakers could have freed up max space just by moving Bynum in the 2011 off-season...you think they wouldn't chase LeBron? Not only would they chase LeBron, we'd be hearing the Lakers as a choice MUCH earlier, and we would have gotten some serious consideration from him as well and probably landed him if other teams weren't shaping up.

The key to free agency is you make yourself a destination people go to if they want to win, and you have the money to pay them.

Golden State created that while STILL having max space available. This is why I said Durant was going there months ago. Because why wouldn't he? He gets paid and gets to win. That at the end of the day is what players REALLY care about nowadays.

All these players like "Oh I'd never go there!", let them continue to lose, and then a championship contender with up max money while keeping their core comes and throws the max at them... and watch them say yes.


Let's assume Miami does something like signing Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin next off-season and build themselves into a finals contender in the East or even make the Finals in the East somehow.

Now let's assume Damian Lillard, mr "I would never" is a free agent that has constantly lost in the 2nd round for 4 straight years, and Miami comes at him with MAX money or close to it, for a spot as the starting point guard on their team of Westbrook, Griffin and Whiteside. Anyone think Lillard goes "ah nah man.. I'm just gonna keep trying to make it work in Portland...".

He only does that if he cares about money. (You know, precisely what people said about Carmelo Anthony NOT going to the Rockets or the Bulls and staying in New York).

It's a darned if you do, darned if you don't world and scenario, and they'll have a story for every decision.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:28 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ I won't lie man, I'm looking forward to the spectacle.


Same here, JB ...

I cannot wait to see Westbrook go at Durant. He is gonna try to light that (bleep) up. That match-up alone will be Must See TV next season.



Yep. This GSW team is going to be absolutely nuclear. People are going to silly lengths trying to find common ground with teams past. Just stop it. This is basically adding a top 3 player (or even 2) to a dominant, championship caliber, 73 win team. Come back to me if KG decided to join the Lakers in 2002. Or if Lebron joined the year right after the Celtics won 66 games and pasted us in game 6. Better yet, if Bird decided to join the Lakers in 88. There is nothing comparable to this and those core 4 are barely entering their primes. Upgrading Harrison (bleep)-show Barnes to the most lethal offensive weapon since prime Bean Braynt. Sick.


Exactly. A poster stretched and strained to invoke the name of Jamaal Wilkes and Kareem from 87-89 as a comparison. Jamaal who was dumped in 85, btw. Coop was drafted in the 3rd round or thereabouts and he was used to argue that he was similar to Durant just jumping ship to GS. Only poster with enough historical knowledge and debating skills (and writing style) to craft a decent contrary argument is Da Verb.


Wanna know the funny thing?

If there was a free agency, and McAdoo had left the Knicks at 27 and went to the Lakers, think he'd be talked about the way Durant is now? Only those that have never sen McAdoo wouldn't understand why he and Durant are very comparible.

The thing, McAdoo bounced around the league from 27 till he was 30 when the Lakers finally got him.

The amazing thing is, if Durant tried to "tough it out" in OKC for 4 more years he'd be a free agent at 31-32 and if he went to the Warriors THEN... he'd be considered just as McAdoo was when he finally arrived


But Durant decided not to wait till he was Payton or Malone's age to finally go to the best situation.


This would happen a LOT more often if there had been a home grown team as good as the Warriors have done it. They made a championship contender AND had max money. OF COURSE they are gonna land a big time free agent. Who wouldn't?


Do you think LeBron WOULDN'T have come here in the Summer of '11 if the Lakers were going to have max space and could land him while keeping Gasol and Odom?


Imagine if the Lakers could have freed up max space just by moving Bynum in the 2011 off-season...you think they wouldn't chase LeBron? Not only would they chase LeBron, we'd be hearing the Lakers as a choice MUCH earlier, and we would have gotten some serious consideration from him as well and probably landed him if other teams weren't shaping up.

The key to free agency is you make yourself a destination people go to if they want to win, and you have the money to pay them.

Golden State created that while STILL having max space available. This is why I said Durant was going there months ago. Because why wouldn't he? He gets paid and gets to win. That at the end of the day is what players REALLY care about nowadays.

All these players like "Oh I'd never go there!", let them continue to lose, and then a championship contender with up max money while keeping their core comes and throws the max at them... and watch them say yes.


Let's assume Miami does something like signing Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin next off-season and build themselves into a finals contender in the East or even make the Finals in the East somehow.

Now let's assume Damian Lillard, mr "I would never" is a free agent that has constantly lost in the 2nd round for 4 straight years, and Miami comes at him with MAX money or close to it, for a spot as the starting point guard on their team of Westbrook, Griffin and Whiteside. Anyone think Lillard goes "ah nah man.. I'm just gonna keep trying to make it work in Portland...".

He only does that if he cares about money. (You know, precisely what people said about Carmelo Anthony NOT going to the Rockets or the Bulls and staying in New York).

It's a darned if you do, darned if you don't world and scenario, and they'll have a story for every decision.


Thank you for speaking with reason and common sense on this subject. The W's had been rumored to be chasing Durant this year even before they won the championship last year. They executed their plan and won the day.

I will add this. Durant took less money by going to GS. No doubt, he saw the opportunity to win rings, although he might have achieved that in OKC. OKC was very good, certainly among the top 3 or 4 teams that could win next year. Durant has only hinted at it, because to be blunt would be to throw Westbrook and OKC coaches and management under the bus, but he has talked about the W's style of play. Durant is capable of hero ball, but can't you see him flourishing in the W's team ball environment? He truly could play his best basketball in such an environment, thus leaving a greater legacy.

Furthermore, Durant is not joining a 73 win team, as many have claimed. They sent 6 players from that team packing to get him. They will be vulnerable to injury. They will have to figure out how to play together.I suspect that they will be a little weaker in the regular season, but stronger in the playoffs. It will be a blast to watch.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:24 pm    Post subject:

A ringless LeBron joining a soon to be washed up Kobe is the the most hilarious idea ever. How can someone possibly suggest that was ever even a remote possibility.
LeBron would never ever do it.
They don't fit just like Kobe and Nash didn't nor would have CP3/Kobe. Kobe's not letting the other guy bring the ball up the court.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:12 am    Post subject:

Larry Bird and Charles Barkley would have never joined a team with the other major stars of their era.... Unless it was to bully lesser talent in the Olympics.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
^ I won't lie man, I'm looking forward to the spectacle.


Same here, JB ...

I cannot wait to see Westbrook go at Durant. He is gonna try to light that (bleep) up. That match-up alone will be Must See TV next season.



Yep. This GSW team is going to be absolutely nuclear. People are going to silly lengths trying to find common ground with teams past. Just stop it. This is basically adding a top 3 player (or even 2) to a dominant, championship caliber, 73 win team. Come back to me if KG decided to join the Lakers in 2002. Or if Lebron joined the year right after the Celtics won 66 games and pasted us in game 6. Better yet, if Bird decided to join the Lakers in 88. There is nothing comparable to this and those core 4 are barely entering their primes. Upgrading Harrison (bleep)-show Barnes to the most lethal offensive weapon since prime Bean Braynt. Sick.

If they're healthy and somehow lose a series, there better not be one single person under God's green earth that whines about some great injustice. They're a fighter walking into the ring, juiced to the gills. I expect heads to go flying in every game they play. Anything less for me is a disappointment.


It will all be about health. As we saw last playoffs, one moderate injury and they were mortal. Now, with less of a bench, that would be even more destructive. If they stay healthy they should roll most teams, but if they suffer a couple of injuries, they won't. Not to mention someone to take over in close games. We saw Lebron dominate them in that category in the Finals, now they add KD who we also saw failing in the clutch.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:16 am    Post subject:

Chadley wrote:
A ringless LeBron joining a soon to be washed up Kobe is the the most hilarious idea ever. How can someone possibly suggest that was ever even a remote possibility.
LeBron would never ever do it.
They don't fit just like Kobe and Nash didn't nor would have CP3/Kobe. Kobe's not letting the other guy bring the ball up the court.


Interesting analysis of the, what, two games they played together and were healthy.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:11 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
How about the fact that it's literally every team's dream to have enough home grown talent that you sign a big time free agent to join that talent? That was the NBA 'Dream'


Keep in mind this is an unusual year because the cap jumped so much that it created a huge amount of cap space. The NBA wanted to avoid that by spreading the new money around to players equally by enlarging existing contracts proportionally but the union wouldn't buy it. The Warriors wouldn't have been able to do this a few years ago, and they probably wouldn't have been able to do this a few years from now when the max salaries have caught up. The salary cap isn't going to jump every year like this.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:46 am    Post subject:

imagine the talent the Kobe/Shaq Lakers could have pulled in if this run away cap existed.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:38 pm    Post subject:

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/kevin-durant-jerseys-selling-for-48-cents-at-oklahoma-city-store/ar-BBuFQWj?li=BBnba9I

Quote:
Kevin Durant jerseys selling for 48 cents at Oklahoma City store 4 / 36

If you needed any more evidence that the city of Oklahoma City and its fans are not terribly happy with Kevin Durant, you need not look any further.

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Oklahoma City store discounts Thunder Durant jerseys to 99% off http://es.pn/29Z5Dts
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Thatís right. The former MVPís jersey is selling at 48 cents at a local Academy Sports+Outdoors store in Oklahoma City.

Durant, now a member of the conference-rival Golden State Warriors, has drawn the ire of the Thunder fan base and a large portion of the overall NBA world by moving on from Oklahoma City.

It will most definitely be interesting to see how many of these jerseys do sell. After all, there were some Thunder fans shown burning jerseys after Durant made the decision to join Golden State.

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I wish Durant would have stuck around like the plastic this jersey was made out of
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Heck, maybe fans will go ahead and buy these at 48 cents, only to burn them immediately after purchase.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:54 am    Post subject:

http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/07/23/kevin-durant-nobody-has-said-something-negative-to-my-face-about-joining-warriors/

Quote:
Kevin Durant: Nobody has said something negative to my face about joining Warriors


When Kevin Durant chose the Warriors, he received criticism from all angles.

Fans burned his jersey. Charles Barkley decried the decision. Markieff Morris said, ďThat ainít right.Ē Durantís former Thunder teammates leaked their displeasure with the process.

Durant was so reluctant to face the backlash, he stayed in his bed luxurious rental house for two days.

It, uh, worked.

Michael Lee of Yahoo Sports:

Though he has heard some criticism from Barkley and fellow Hall of Famer Reggie Miller, various talking heads and people in social media who believe he has cheated the system and cut corners to a ring, Durant said the reaction to his choice hasnít been too bad: ďAll that stuff happens on the Internet. I havenít had one person come to me and say anything negative. Ö Itís easy for the critics on the outside to tell you what to do, to tell you how to play. Iím the one thatís going through it, so I canít really worry about the outside noise. The work donít stop. Everything stays the same.Ē

This is a good reminder how insulated NBA players, especially stars, can be.

And it adds to why Durant signing with Golden State makes sense. While weíre debating his legacy and discussing the backlash (and the backlash to the backlash and the backlash to the backlash to the backlash and theÖ), heíll be playing high-level basketball with his friends in a desirable city for a max salary.

Sure, itís not all rosy. Durant altered his relationship with his friend Russell Westbrook, and Durant will have to return to Oklahoma City for a game. There, heíll face plenty of booing fans.

But, all in all, Durant should have little trouble tuning out the critics.

Theyíre too far away for him to hear them much.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:18 pm    Post subject:

A team like the Clippers might actually get a sniff this year. Wouldn't be surprising if the tables turned a bit in this matchup. Defensive chemistry and lack of size for GS would be the keys.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:21 pm    Post subject:

lifelong9er wrote:
Larry Bird and Charles Barkley would have never joined a team with the other major stars of their era.... Unless it was to bully lesser talent in the Olympics.


Barkley tried to ride Hakeem to the title.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 1:50 pm    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
A team like the Clippers might actually get a sniff this year. Wouldn't be surprising if the tables turned a bit in this matchup. Defensive chemistry and lack of size for GS would be the keys.


The last 2 minutes will be the problem for any GS opponent. Even if they manage to keep it close, you're just not going to be able to close that team out.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:54 pm    Post subject:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18286141/under-new-cba-golden-state-warriors-guard-stephen-curry-get-deal-worth-more-200-million

Average of $42M for Steph
Average of $36M for KD

That leaves, what? $35 - $40M for the rest of the team ... ?

I don't think they're going to be able to field a competitive bench, much less find enough cap space to retain both Klay and Draymond (each of whom will command $25 - $30M+ in free agency).

Say goodbye to the Bay, Iggy and Shaun ...
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:59 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18286141/under-new-cba-golden-state-warriors-guard-stephen-curry-get-deal-worth-more-200-million

Average of $42M for Steph
Average of $36M for KD

That leaves, what? $35 - $40M for the rest of the team ... ?

I don't think they're going to be able to field a competitive bench, much less find enough cap space to retain both Klay and Draymond (each of whom will command $25 - $30M+ in free agency).

Say goodbye to the Bay, Iggy and Shaun ...


They don't need capspace for Klay/Draymond since they will have bird rights.

Fairpoint on Livingston/Iggy if they are expiring next year, they won't have money for them.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 6:24 pm    Post subject:

lakers0505 wrote:
the association wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18286141/under-new-cba-golden-state-warriors-guard-stephen-curry-get-deal-worth-more-200-million

Average of $42M for Steph
Average of $36M for KD

That leaves, what? $35 - $40M for the rest of the team ... ?

I don't think they're going to be able to field a competitive bench, much less find enough cap space to retain both Klay and Draymond (each of whom will command $25 - $30M+ in free agency).

Say goodbye to the Bay, Iggy and Shaun ...


They don't need capspace for Klay/Draymond since they will have bird rights.

Fairpoint on Livingston/Iggy if they are expiring next year, they won't have money for them.


Whether Golden State can exceed the cap to re-sign their own players when they retain Bird rights isn't the issue in my mind. Instead, are they going to want to have $125MM tied up in four players? And how are they going to acquire players to comprise a competent bench?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:37 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
lakers0505 wrote:
the association wrote:
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18286141/under-new-cba-golden-state-warriors-guard-stephen-curry-get-deal-worth-more-200-million

Average of $42M for Steph
Average of $36M for KD

That leaves, what? $35 - $40M for the rest of the team ... ?

I don't think they're going to be able to field a competitive bench, much less find enough cap space to retain both Klay and Draymond (each of whom will command $25 - $30M+ in free agency).

Say goodbye to the Bay, Iggy and Shaun ...


They don't need capspace for Klay/Draymond since they will have bird rights.

Fairpoint on Livingston/Iggy if they are expiring next year, they won't have money for them.


Whether Golden State can exceed the cap to re-sign their own players when they retain Bird rights isn't the issue in my mind. Instead, are they going to want to have $125MM tied up in four players? And how are they going to acquire players to comprise a competent bench?


Ring chasers/minimums/mle's/biannual exeptions, etc. I think they'll be fine to be honest. And if not, I'll take a slice of some Klay Thompson. I'm not too proud for some sloppy seconds.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 1:23 am    Post subject:

nevitt_smrek wrote:
lifelong9er wrote:
Larry Bird and Charles Barkley would have never joined a team with the other major stars of their era.... Unless it was to bully lesser talent in the Olympics.


Barkley tried to ride Hakeem to the title.


Barkley was getting old, still potent but not exactly in his prime when he joined the Rockets
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 9:35 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
nevitt_smrek wrote:
lifelong9er wrote:
Larry Bird and Charles Barkley would have never joined a team with the other major stars of their era.... Unless it was to bully lesser talent in the Olympics.


Barkley tried to ride Hakeem to the title.


Barkley was getting old, still potent but not exactly in his prime when he joined the Rockets

true but that was still one of the first cases in the modern NBA of some free agents trying to form somewhat of a "super team" and got a good amount of pre-season hype... Drexler,Pippen,Barkley,Dream
edit: my memory is bad ... Drexler and Pippen didnt play together as Drexler retired before Pippen joined the next season
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