FINALLY... Phil Jackson accepts some blame.
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iml84myd8s
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 11:58 am    Post subject: FINALLY... Phil Jackson accepts some blame.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/basketball/nba/la-sp-lakers8feb08,1,5313347.story?coll=la-headlines-sports-nba

Quote:
But he did question his decision to sub Luke Walton and Sasha Vujacic for George and Smush Parker shortly after the short-lived Laker lead.

"Strategically, it was a bad move on my part," Jackson said. "Guys went in the ballgame and didn't give us any help."


There are no excuses for the Lakers being a .500 ball club with arguably the greatest player in the game, who is in his prime, and arguably the greatest head coach of all time. Since the NBA does NOT have a hard salary cap, no team can use the excuse they don’t have enough good players because all a team needs to do is sign better players or trade for better players. Based on the current salary cap structure, the only excuse is the owner isn’t willing to spend the money to support a good team.

Nevertheless, Phil Jackson continues to fill the papers with not-so subtle negative backhanded comments about Kobe shooting too much, Kobe not playing within the offense, Odom not being aggressive enough, management not providing enough talent or the right talent. Granted there is some truth to all these comments, it’s a pleasant surprise to hear Phil Jackson finally accept some of the blame for the Lakers poor season. After all, Phil Jackson is the highest paid coach in the league and it is about time for him to start earning his lunch money.

Phil Jackson is responsible for getting these players to be better basketball players and to make this team a championship contender. Neither is happening. It's time for Phil Jackson to accept responsibility for this.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:00 pm    Post subject:

i think phil has done a very good job this year...

however..

when he puts in his kwame/george/luke/sasha/smush lineup like he did last night and has done in other games...i want to throw something at the tv. that lineup can neither score nor defend.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:01 pm    Post subject:

I'm shocked. Phil actually recognizes he's at fault. Out of frustration, my t.v. was very close to going "airborne" out the window last night, when Puke Walton got slaughtered as soon as he came in, and we lost our momentum and the game overall.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I am so happy you are not our GM. You should go and root for the Knicks, who have followed your GM strategy to a T. As a result, they are awful, with zero hope to get better.

We have a clear strategy, which may not allow us to be championship contenders this year, but will put us there in the next 3.

It is pointless to continue
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Take it easy on Phil.

He's an asset to this franchise. He's trying to keep his mind open and not be decisive like we are with this players.

Fans will tend to just position players in a black or white area. Coaches can't do the same or players will never get better.

Phil's trying to develop scrubs. I mean we have guys like Parker, Cook, Kwame, Vujacic and Walton logging key minutes for us in games. All those players are unproven as NBA ballers.

I too get frustrated with some of Phil's moves, but at the same I look at what Larry Brown's doing to NY with MORE proven talent.

The Lakers are young, unproven and just not that good outside of 3 players.

We could be a lot worse than we are, if not for Phil's ability to keep a team focused and together.

Don't be suprised if the Lakers have a winning streak after this stretch of losing. It's been the story all season ....
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bambam
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:05 pm    Post subject:

you keep saying the same crap:

bambam wrote:
iml84myd8s wrote:
My expectations of the Lakers are to be the best team in basketball every year. That’s not always realistic. However, the Lakers have Phil Jackson as their coach and a healthy Kobe Bryant. There is NO reason to lower expectation this year.


:roll: So you are grading him based on unrealistic expectations?
This team on paper was going to be lucky to make the playoffs this season.
This team has the best perimeter player in the league, one of the softest front courts and 1.. ONE...player that can truely be labled as a "STARTER" playing alongside Kobe.
The rest of the lineup makes up a good 2nd unit for most teams.

You cant give him a bad grade based on unrealistic expectations.



iml84myd8s wrote:
As I stated, not having enough talent around Kobe is not an excuse for having a bad team since the NBA doesn't have a hard salary cap. It's Phil's responsibility to get players around Kobe. If Phil doesn't get the guys he wants from Mitch and Buss, he tells them he'll walk just like he did once they didn't agree to negotiate a deal with Shaq. If Phil is sitting on the sideline, as the head coach, the responsibility for wins and loses starts and ends with the head coach.

Great coaches are responsible for their team. Phil is not a pawn in this league. Phil is the king and mitch is the queen who can make all the moves. But at the end of the day, the winner is the one with the king still standing. The point is that, if Phil puts his foot down during the draft, trade talks or free agent moves, Phil will get want he wants if he's willing to make it happen. If Phil is passive or hands-off, then he is to blame for the talent around Kobe!


Quote:


:roll: What a load of crap.

There is a salary cap. Hard, Soft whatever. The team is effected by it and has a goal that was put in place before phil even signed on.
Even if there wasnt he isnt responsible for the players that are signed. Mitch is the GM, Buss controls the money.

" If Phil doesn't get the guys he wants from Mitch and Buss, he tells them he'll walk just like he did once they didn't agree to negotiate a deal with Shaq. "

:roll: :roll: you are funny.





just knock it off with the salary cap crap.

there is one and the laker have a plan and obviously are sticking to it.

They have the best player the best coach and are a 500 team because thats all they have.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:09 pm    Post subject:

msb212 wrote:
I am so happy you are not our GM. You should go and root for the Knicks, who have followed your GM strategy to a T. As a result, they are awful, with zero hope to get better.

We have a clear strategy, which may not allow us to be championship contenders this year, but will put us there in the next 3.

It is pointless to continue


good post
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:09 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...

however..

when he puts in his kwame/george/luke/sasha/smush lineup like he did last night and has done in other games...i want to throw something at the tv. that lineup can neither score nor defend.


you too? I don't know what it is with Phil and that line-up it makes me sick. It makes me want to see an anger-management counselor. Why does he do it? I can see that we don't have any other bigs right now, so we have to play Brown. But I think he actually thinks Luke can play. Someone should send him a memo.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:20 pm    Post subject:

msb212 wrote:
I am so happy you are not our GM.


I agree with that much.

Quote:
You should go and root for the Knicks, who have followed your GM strategy to a T. As a result, they are awful, with zero hope to get better.


The Knicks are awful because Isiah has a terrible feel for how to put players together, is happy to take on awful contracts, and is trigger happy for bad trades.

I don't know if that is any better than a GM who has no feel for how to put a team together, no eye for talent, won't take on any contracts and won't make any trades.

I mean if you put Kobe on the Knicks with that roster they have right now and Brown as coach, they'd probably be vying for a top seed in the East. Despite Isiah's stupidity and Brown's ineptitude at coaching this season, they still have more talent than the Lakers outside of Kobe (oh, and what the hell, Lamar). I don't know--I mean if you had to pick between Curry, Marbury, Q, Crawford, Frye, Jalen, Robinson and Arizia or Mihm, Odom, Walton, Kwame, Sasha, Smush, Cook and George, do you go with Mitch or Isiah?

Quote:
We have a clear strategy, which may not allow us to be championship contenders this year, but will put us there in the next 3.


What exactly is that strategy? Pray and hope?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject:

DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject:

msb212 wrote:
I am so happy you are not our GM. You should go and root for the Knicks, who have followed your GM strategy to a T. As a result, they are awful, with zero hope to get better.

We have a clear strategy, which may not allow us to be championship contenders this year, but will put us there in the next 3.

It is pointless to continue


Championship Contenders??? Are you so sure about that? I guess that it depends on your definition of a championship contenders? Do you consider the Clippers and Cavs as 'contenders'?

If you classify the top two teams in the respective division as championship contenders, than I don't think that we will be there in the next three. (ie. Spurs, Suns, Pistons, Heat)

Yes, we have a plan but there are no guarantees that it will make us "championship contenders".
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Now, if we can get some other people to do the same. Mitch, Sasha, Luke, Kwame and Smush, accept responsibility and grow some balls.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:32 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.


Maybe...but we have 34 games. That's not a lot of time. Players on this team have regressed. Players who are giving us absolutely nothing continue to get playing time. I talked about this in another thread how other teams are digging in and kicking it into 2nd gear. This team has yet show any such gear. Phil and Kobe have a huge challenge ahead of them. Some of these guys are showing off their true colors and it's not pretty.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:36 pm    Post subject:

Ha - you guys have been charmed by the Zenmeister. I love PJ, but he always uses subtle tricks like this.

He wasn't accepting blame for anything - that comment was his backhanded way of slapping Vujacic and Walton. He basically said, hey what can I do, I put these guys in and they sucked. It's a tricky way of seeming like you're taking the blame, but really these are the players he's stuck with and ultimately they look worse out of that statement than he does.

I'm a marketer by profession and I love how PJ pulls some of this stuff. Also take note that whenever the team does something good it's "we" and whenever the team is sucking it's "they". Phil is the master!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.


Maybe...but we have 34 games. That's not a lot of time. Players on this team have regressed. Players who are giving us absolutely nothing continue to get playing time. I talked about this in another thread how other teams are digging in and kicking it into 2nd gear. This team has yet show any such gear. Phil and Kobe have a huge challenge ahead of them. Some of these guys are showing off their true colors and it's not pretty.


right, they are showing their true colors: as inconsistent, mediocre basketball players. how does that reflect poorly on phil? i think he's done a remarkable job with basically no big man, no defensive guard, no real shooters (outside of kobe and a streaky cook), and a terrible bench. you said yourself "phil and kobe have ahuge challenge ahead of them". that shows you that the lakers are ONLY kobe and phil.

instead of criticizing kobe and phil for not winning lots of road games (with 6 players, 2 starters injured) with garbage....personally i'm impressed that they've been able to get the wins we've gotten with such a roster.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:42 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.


Maybe...but we have 34 games. That's not a lot of time. Players on this team have regressed. Players who are giving us absolutely nothing continue to get playing time. I talked about this in another thread how other teams are digging in and kicking it into 2nd gear. This team has yet show any such gear. Phil and Kobe have a huge challenge ahead of them. Some of these guys are showing off their true colors and it's not pretty.


right, they are showing their true colors: as inconsistent, mediocre basketball players. how does that reflect poorly on phil? i think he's done a remarkable job with basically no big man, no defensive guard, no real shooters (outside of kobe and a streaky cook), and a terrible bench. you said yourself "phil and kobe have ahuge challenge ahead of them". that shows you that the lakers are ONLY kobe and phil.

instead of criticizing kobe and phil for not winning lots of road games (with 6 players, 2 starters injured) with garbage....personally i'm impressed that they've been able to get the wins we've gotten with such a roster.


Phil is the one who said he expected this to be a playoff team. While he wasn't pleased with the makeup, he clearly thought it was enough to work with in getting a playoff berth.

As of right now, this team isn't getting better, it's getting worse. YOU said the team would bounce back. I simply said that because they're going the wrong way with 34 games left, it's gonna be a challenge.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:48 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.


Maybe...but we have 34 games. That's not a lot of time. Players on this team have regressed. Players who are giving us absolutely nothing continue to get playing time. I talked about this in another thread how other teams are digging in and kicking it into 2nd gear. This team has yet show any such gear. Phil and Kobe have a huge challenge ahead of them. Some of these guys are showing off their true colors and it's not pretty.


right, they are showing their true colors: as inconsistent, mediocre basketball players. how does that reflect poorly on phil? i think he's done a remarkable job with basically no big man, no defensive guard, no real shooters (outside of kobe and a streaky cook), and a terrible bench. you said yourself "phil and kobe have ahuge challenge ahead of them". that shows you that the lakers are ONLY kobe and phil.

instead of criticizing kobe and phil for not winning lots of road games (with 6 players, 2 starters injured) with garbage....personally i'm impressed that they've been able to get the wins we've gotten with such a roster.


Phil is the one who said he expected this to be a playoff team. While he wasn't pleased with the makeup, he clearly thought it was enough to work with in getting a playoff berth.

As of right now, this team isn't getting better, it's getting worse. YOU said the team would bounce back. I simply said that because they're going the wrong way with 34 games left, it's gonna be a challenge.


the lakers are currently occupying the 8th spot in the playoffs. how do you figure phil's assertion that we're a playoff team is false?

consider that we're still a playoff team..and when phil made that assessment, we had mckie (a veteran guard to make smart plays....not bonehead ones we've been making lately), slava (ok he sucks but its a guy who can score...which seems to be aproblem, profit (who functioned as our sixth man before he got hurt), turiaf (who was supposed to be our hustle/garbage man) and chris mihm (starting big man, leading shot blocker, increasingly reliable scorer).

the "sky is falling" attitude that permeates the board after every loss is tiresome. we're plagued with injuries...what do people expect? i think we WILL bounce back if we can get our boys back healthy.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.


Maybe...but we have 34 games. That's not a lot of time. Players on this team have regressed. Players who are giving us absolutely nothing continue to get playing time. I talked about this in another thread how other teams are digging in and kicking it into 2nd gear. This team has yet show any such gear. Phil and Kobe have a huge challenge ahead of them. Some of these guys are showing off their true colors and it's not pretty.


right, they are showing their true colors: as inconsistent, mediocre basketball players. how does that reflect poorly on phil? i think he's done a remarkable job with basically no big man, no defensive guard, no real shooters (outside of kobe and a streaky cook), and a terrible bench. you said yourself "phil and kobe have ahuge challenge ahead of them". that shows you that the lakers are ONLY kobe and phil.

instead of criticizing kobe and phil for not winning lots of road games (with 6 players, 2 starters injured) with garbage....personally i'm impressed that they've been able to get the wins we've gotten with such a roster.


Phil is the one who said he expected this to be a playoff team. While he wasn't pleased with the makeup, he clearly thought it was enough to work with in getting a playoff berth.

As of right now, this team isn't getting better, it's getting worse. YOU said the team would bounce back. I simply said that because they're going the wrong way with 34 games left, it's gonna be a challenge.


But you do have to admit that with 34 games left to go, Phil has thus far delivered on his prediction because the Lakers ARE indeed a playoff team currently. This current losing streak is nothing new. The Lakers have been streaky and inconsistent from the start. Inconsistency in the only thing they've been consistent at, yet they are still ahead of teams like Sacramento, Golden State, Minnesota, Houston, and Seattle. All those teams have been more inconsistent than the Lakers and since I lack the skill to see into the future I must admit to not knowing how teams will play over the remaining 34 games so I'm forced to use the best available estimator and judge by how they've played thus far - and thus far the Lakers have played themselves into the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 12:56 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
DaggerInTheHeart wrote:
da ocho wrote:
i think phil has done a very good job this year...


Then i guess Rudy T did a awesome job last year to fact is nothing has changed from last year we're still giving up over 100 points a game we still stink.


look at this roster. kobe+garbage. we're in the playoff hunt WITH SIX PLAYERES INJURED. we've hit a wall but we'll bounce back.


Maybe...but we have 34 games. That's not a lot of time. Players on this team have regressed. Players who are giving us absolutely nothing continue to get playing time. I talked about this in another thread how other teams are digging in and kicking it into 2nd gear. This team has yet show any such gear. Phil and Kobe have a huge challenge ahead of them. Some of these guys are showing off their true colors and it's not pretty.


right, they are showing their true colors: as inconsistent, mediocre basketball players. how does that reflect poorly on phil? i think he's done a remarkable job with basically no big man, no defensive guard, no real shooters (outside of kobe and a streaky cook), and a terrible bench. you said yourself "phil and kobe have ahuge challenge ahead of them". that shows you that the lakers are ONLY kobe and phil.

instead of criticizing kobe and phil for not winning lots of road games (with 6 players, 2 starters injured) with garbage....personally i'm impressed that they've been able to get the wins we've gotten with such a roster.


Phil is the one who said he expected this to be a playoff team. While he wasn't pleased with the makeup, he clearly thought it was enough to work with in getting a playoff berth.

As of right now, this team isn't getting better, it's getting worse. YOU said the team would bounce back. I simply said that because they're going the wrong way with 34 games left, it's gonna be a challenge.


the lakers are currently occupying the 8th spot in the playoffs. how do you figure phil's assertion that we're a playoff team is false?
consider that we're still a playoff team..and when phil made that assessment, we had mckie (a veteran guard to make smart plays....not bonehead ones we've been making lately), slava (ok he sucks but its a guy who can score...which seems to be aproblem, profit (who functioned as our sixth man before he got hurt), turiaf (who was supposed to be our hustle/garbage man) and chris mihm (starting big man, leading shot blocker, increasingly reliable scorer).

the "sky is falling" attitude that permeates the board after every loss is tiresome. we're plagued with injuries...what do people expect? i think we WILL bounce back if we can get our boys back healthy.


Dude, again you're reading things that aren't there. Nowhere did I say Phil's assessment was false. What I SAID, was that as of right now, this team is not getting better, it's getting worse. That is a FACT. If we continue to slide, we will not be a playoff team.

Yes, we are a playoff team right now at #8. 2 weeks ago we were a 6-7 seed. I don't like the trend. It would be nice if we were streaking not sliding. And I stand by my assertion that with just 34 games left, they have a lot of work to do to figure out how to turn this ship around.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject:

the ship can only be turned around if our players are healthy. you are describing the team as if this is the same team we've had all year and are now starting to slip. this is not the case. the ship can not be righted with this current squad of active players...we will continue to lose. if we can get some of our guys healthy, then we can right it.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:00 pm    Post subject:

We were 25-23 last season... but, our schedule then was fairly easy, and this season the end of the season is the easy part for us. So I'd say there is some improvement, though not much.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:06 pm    Post subject:

da ocho wrote:
the ship can only be turned around if our players are healthy. you are describing the team as if this is the same team we've had all year and are now starting to slip. this is not the case. the ship can not be righted with this current squad of active players...we will continue to lose. if we can get some of our guys healthy, then we can right it.


We were sliding before Lamar and Mihm got hurt. Now we're in a freefall. Injuries are a part of every season for every team. We're not just losing games. We're losing games BADLY. We're losing games badly because some guys on this team have quit playing both ends of the floor.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:14 pm    Post subject:

I couldnt believe it myself when he took those two out and put Sasha and Luke in, I was in complete shock. We go up by two after LO makes two and bam were down 6 or 8 at the end of the quarter. I could see that one coming a million miles away, I was going to post something about it but I just didnt feel like talking about the Lakers after the game. Im glad Phil realized it and then admitted it, makes me feel a little better. I really enjoyed when Kobe yelled at Sasha "what the F are you doing, thats 3" in regards to Sasha just fouling left and right when he entered the game. Im glad he said something b/c Im yelling the same damn thing.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 1:17 pm    Post subject:

hoopschick29 wrote:
da ocho wrote:
the ship can only be turned around if our players are healthy. you are describing the team as if this is the same team we've had all year and are now starting to slip. this is not the case. the ship can not be righted with this current squad of active players...we will continue to lose. if we can get some of our guys healthy, then we can right it.


We were sliding before Lamar and Mihm got hurt. Now we're in a freefall. Injuries are a part of every season for every team. We're not just losing games. We're losing games BADLY. We're losing games badly because some guys on this team have quit playing both ends of the floor.


i guess i'm having a hard time seeing your point. you make it sound like we won't make the playoffs (the stated goal for the season), but then insist that you think we will...but say we're slipping away. what are your expectations for this team? injuries are part of basketball, but there are minor injuries and there are major injuries. the rockets experienced injury meltdown this year. thats not 'part of the game'. thats something that does not typically happen and cripples teams. thats whats happening to us now.
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