| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
 Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
My question is, how realistic is it going to be that Deng improves his value so much that it's worth taking time away from our younger players?
Is he going to breakthrough so much that teams will clamor to trade for him? Doubtful.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54624
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | My question is, how realistic is it going to be that Deng improves his value so much that it's worth taking time away from our younger players?
Is he going to breakthrough so much that teams will clamor to trade for him? VERY Doubtful. |
Fixed 😎 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
We will have to trade/stretch Deng for 2018. That's a 100% certainty.
So what is the benefit of playing him over guys like Kuz, or taking minutes from Jules/Nance at PF?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90307
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | We will have to trade/stretch Deng for 2018. That's a 100% certainty.
So what is the benefit of playing him over guys like Kuz, or taking minutes from Jules/Nance at PF? |
Am I correct that you are wondering about the benefit of playing a guy you hope to trade?
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigBallerBrand
Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 5802
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | We will have to trade/stretch Deng for 2018. That's a 100% certainty.
So what is the benefit of playing him over guys like Kuz, or taking minutes from Jules/Nance at PF? |
Am I correct that you are wondering about the benefit of playing a guy you hope to trade? |
To increase trade value?
_________________
Billions Billions Billions |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | We will have to trade/stretch Deng for 2018. That's a 100% certainty.
So what is the benefit of playing him over guys like Kuz, or taking minutes from Jules/Nance at PF? |
Am I correct that you are wondering about the benefit of playing a guy you hope to trade? |
I'm saying that it is unlikely that his play will move the trade value needle.
I'm sure they will try it for the first few weeks.
The opportunity cost is real playing time for guys like Kuz.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | My question is, how realistic is it going to be that Deng improves his value so much that it's worth taking time away from our younger players?
Is he going to breakthrough so much that teams will clamor to trade for him? Doubtful. |
That depends on Luke's mindset. Will he have competition Thursday? If so, playing time will need to be earned.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GonzagaAlum
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 3021
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ironically while people continue to want to dump Deng... his best position is Randles position why I bring this up is this... if Randle is only so so.... trading a guy like Clarkson for an expiring and maybe a future second and maybe a randle for a future first two years down the road and holding onto Deng is not a bad idea. Deng is after this season is done, would only then be 12 months away from becoming an asset. Big expirings are worth something in this league.
5 years is also a long time to have Deng on cap. The Lakers have four fours in Deng, Kuz, Randle and Nance so if you can get a solid future pick for Randle and he hasn't taken a massive step - the Lakers should consider it
_________________
How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GonzagaAlum wrote: | Ironically while people continue to want to dump Deng... his best position is Randles position why I bring this up is this... if Randle is only so so.... trading a guy like Clarkson for an expiring and maybe a future second and maybe a randle for a future first two years down the road and holding onto Deng is not a bad idea. Deng is after this season is done, would only then be 12 months away from becoming an asset. Big expirings are worth something in this league.
5 years is also a long time to have Deng on cap. The Lakers have four fours in Deng, Kuz, Randle and Nance so if you can get a solid future pick for Randle and he hasn't taken a massive step - the Lakers should consider it |
So Randle doesn't significantly improve and some team will deal a first for him? #lakerfanlogic.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54624
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GonzagaAlum wrote: | Ironically while people continue to want to dump Deng... his best position is Randles position why I bring this up is this... if Randle is only so so.... trading a guy like Clarkson for an expiring and maybe a future second and maybe a randle for a future first two years down the road and holding onto Deng is not a bad idea. Deng is after this season is done, would only then be 12 months away from becoming an asset. Big expirings are worth something in this league.
5 years is also a long time to have Deng on cap. The Lakers have four fours in Deng, Kuz, Randle and Nance so if you can get a solid future pick for Randle and he hasn't taken a massive step - the Lakers should consider it |
It's a feasible scenario; time will tell. I don't like the idea of stretching out Deng's contract that long either. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| pio2u wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | Ironically while people continue to want to dump Deng... his best position is Randles position why I bring this up is this... if Randle is only so so.... trading a guy like Clarkson for an expiring and maybe a future second and maybe a randle for a future first two years down the road and holding onto Deng is not a bad idea. Deng is after this season is done, would only then be 12 months away from becoming an asset. Big expirings are worth something in this league.
5 years is also a long time to have Deng on cap. The Lakers have four fours in Deng, Kuz, Randle and Nance so if you can get a solid future pick for Randle and he hasn't taken a massive step - the Lakers should consider it |
It's a feasible scenario; time will tell. I don't like the idea of stretching out Deng's contract that long either. |
We will be over the cap regardless.
It's whether the team can stomach paying out a person not play.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GonzagaAlum
Star Player
Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Posts: 3021
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | Ironically while people continue to want to dump Deng... his best position is Randles position why I bring this up is this... if Randle is only so so.... trading a guy like Clarkson for an expiring and maybe a future second and maybe a randle for a future first two years down the road and holding onto Deng is not a bad idea. Deng is after this season is done, would only then be 12 months away from becoming an asset. Big expirings are worth something in this league.
5 years is also a long time to have Deng on cap. The Lakers have four fours in Deng, Kuz, Randle and Nance so if you can get a solid future pick for Randle and he hasn't taken a massive step - the Lakers should consider it |
So Randle doesn't significantly improve and some team will deal a first for him? #lakerfanlogic. |
Yep I do not think Randle has to improve significantly to be worth a late first. He has shown himself an NBA player who can play solid mins. If you don't think teams would give up a Lou Williams style deal for him today than not sure where you get that idea.
Last I checked depending on team firsts have different values.
_________________
How can I get a copy of a Laker game played on Sunday, March 11, 2001 Sonics/Lakers? If you know PM me please
I would be willing to pay you for it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
2019
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Dec 2014
Posts: 10813
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | GonzagaAlum wrote: | Ironically while people continue to want to dump Deng... his best position is Randles position why I bring this up is this... if Randle is only so so.... trading a guy like Clarkson for an expiring and maybe a future second and maybe a randle for a future first two years down the road and holding onto Deng is not a bad idea. Deng is after this season is done, would only then be 12 months away from becoming an asset. Big expirings are worth something in this league.
5 years is also a long time to have Deng on cap. The Lakers have four fours in Deng, Kuz, Randle and Nance so if you can get a solid future pick for Randle and he hasn't taken a massive step - the Lakers should consider it |
So Randle doesn't significantly improve and some team will deal a first for him? #lakerfanlogic. |
There is a difference in improving enough to justify eating into our cap space versus letting him walk versus finding a team who's willing to pay him to find out what he can become.
I think that is what Bulldog is referring to.
Magic feels like we have our young stars in Lonzo and BI. He clearly likes Kuzma and I'm sure Hart and Nance are in there as well. JC is eating into the cap and Randle is going to eat into the cap this year. If the end goal is the 2 max, something has got to give and it feels like Randle is the most easy way out of a deal-- worst case, you renounce him.
If he balls out and takes that big step we're all hoping for, then we should find a way to keep him. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | We will have to trade/stretch Deng for 2018. That's a 100% certainty.
So what is the benefit of playing him over guys like Kuz, or taking minutes from Jules/Nance at PF? |
Am I correct that you are wondering about the benefit of playing a guy you hope to trade? |
I'm saying that it is unlikely that his play will move the trade value needle.
I'm sure they will try it for the first few weeks.
The opportunity cost is real playing time for guys like Kuz. |
Yeah, that ship has sailed. I'm always a little dubious of the idea that GM's are so fickle that a couple positive moments or games are going to dramatically alter their assessment of a player, particularly in this age where everything has to be backed up by stats. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
trablos
Star Player
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Why couldnt we have tampered with Deng  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
greenfrog
Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011
Posts: 36081
Location: 502 Bad Gateway
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
|
|
| What team has the salary space burn to take him either? Thankfully we struck while the Brooklyn iron was hot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| greenfrog wrote: | | What team has the salary space burn to take him either? Thankfully we struck while the Brooklyn iron was hot. |
And we had to take a large contract in return. I would expect the same if we trade Deng.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
farzadkavari
Starting Rotation
Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 551
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm one of the few people that Deng can still Play! If given mins and healthy he can be productive. I'd say he has 1-2 years left before being DONE. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: |
|
|
| farzadkavari wrote: | | I'm one of the few people that Deng can still Play! If given mins and healthy he can be productive. I'd say he has 1-2 years left before being DONE. |
Doesn't matter. We need the cap space to pursue the 2 max plan.
I think teams will low ball us fully knowing that we need to move/stretch him, so even if he shows he can be a slightly below average player, they will hold fast to their trade demands.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | I'm one of the few people that Deng can still Play! If given mins and healthy he can be productive. I'd say he has 1-2 years left before being DONE. |
Doesn't matter. We need the cap space to pursue the 2 max plan.
I think teams will low ball us fully knowing that we need to move/stretch him, so even if he shows he can be a slightly below average player, they will hold fast to their trade demands. |
I agree, no one wants to help us. We have made our intentions well known, no need for other teams to guess.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | I'm one of the few people that Deng can still Play! If given mins and healthy he can be productive. I'd say he has 1-2 years left before being DONE. |
Doesn't matter. We need the cap space to pursue the 2 max plan.
I think teams will low ball us fully knowing that we need to move/stretch him, so even if he shows he can be a slightly below average player, they will hold fast to their trade demands. |
I agree, no one wants to help us. We have made our intentions well known, no need for other teams to guess. |
Yet you were pleased when the previous regime signed him to a long term deal?
I get that you're unhappy with the regime change, but how long is this going to persist? Do you want Magic/Pelinka (and the Lakers) to fail?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | I'm one of the few people that Deng can still Play! If given mins and healthy he can be productive. I'd say he has 1-2 years left before being DONE. |
Doesn't matter. We need the cap space to pursue the 2 max plan.
I think teams will low ball us fully knowing that we need to move/stretch him, so even if he shows he can be a slightly below average player, they will hold fast to their trade demands. |
I agree, no one wants to help us. We have made our intentions well known, no need for other teams to guess. |
Yet you were pleased when the previous regime signed him to a long term deal?
I get that you're unhappy with the regime change, but how long is this going to persist? Do you want Magic/Pelinka (and the Lakers) to fail? |
I have no idea what you are talking about, nothing you posted has anything to do with what you quoted. I am not sure why you did, criticizing me for agreeing with your original idea?
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | farzadkavari wrote: | | I'm one of the few people that Deng can still Play! If given mins and healthy he can be productive. I'd say he has 1-2 years left before being DONE. |
Doesn't matter. We need the cap space to pursue the 2 max plan.
I think teams will low ball us fully knowing that we need to move/stretch him, so even if he shows he can be a slightly below average player, they will hold fast to their trade demands. |
I agree, no one wants to help us. We have made our intentions well known, no need for other teams to guess. |
Yet you were pleased when the previous regime signed him to a long term deal?
I get that you're unhappy with the regime change, but how long is this going to persist? Do you want Magic/Pelinka (and the Lakers) to fail? |
I have no idea what you are talking about, nothing you posted has anything to do with what you quoted. I am not sure why you did, criticizing me for agreeing with your original idea? |
It's the undertone in every post that is anti-Magic/Pelinka ,which is pretty clear to me. I was unhappy with the DLO trade, but i got over it and am rooting like hell for Magic/Pelinka to succeed.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144474
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
As am I, but do you really think their intentions would surprise other teams? They have made it well known and certain other teams will not participate in allowing them to succeed. Stretching Deng is the only thing that makes sense.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| venturalakersfan wrote: | | As am I, but do you really think their intentions would surprise other teams? They have made it well known and certain other teams will not participate in allowing them to succeed. Stretching Deng is the only thing that makes sense. |
I think the two likeliest results (in order):
1. stretch Deng
2. trade him in 2018 FA (2 years left): price will likely be 2 future 1sts (b/c teams know Lakers want that cap space) or maybe future 1st unprotected and 2 2nd rounders, plus a young asset like Hart/Kuz.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
