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pio2u
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:48 pm    Post subject:

Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:54 pm    Post subject:

pio2u wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.


If we had given him a 2 year deal with a option on third, it wouldn't be such a bad deal, I actually think no one is at fault for the contract and the length of it... the reality is that we wanted to get something done and it backfired and as a result the people who were responsible for the unfortunate situation are now out of the FO job.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:35 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.


If we had given him a 2 year deal with a option on third, it wouldn't be such a bad deal, I actually think no one is at fault for the contract and the length of it... the reality is that we wanted to get something done and it backfired and as a result the people who were responsible for the unfortunate situation are now out of the FO job.


The reality is this is simply the penalty a team pays when it changes plans.

Just another example of the instability and chaos that is the earmark of a losing team grasping for anything to change the course.

Same as when bad teams shuffle HCs and make dramatic changes in system philosophy and the subsequent roster changes every couple years.

Oh yeah, done that too.
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:36 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.


If we had given him a 2 year deal with a option on third, it wouldn't be such a bad deal, I actually think no one is at fault for the contract and the length of it... the reality is that we wanted to get something done and it backfired and as a result the people who were responsible for the unfortunate situation are now out of the FO job.


Someone (or two) is definitely at fault. Doing something just to do it is the most foolish thing that can be done. Never was a Mitch hater, but that move deserved termination.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:41 pm    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.


If we had given him a 2 year deal with a option on third, it wouldn't be such a bad deal, I actually think no one is at fault for the contract and the length of it... the reality is that we wanted to get something done and it backfired and as a result the people who were responsible for the unfortunate situation are now out of the FO job.


Someone (or two) is definitely at fault. Doing something just to do it is the most foolish thing that can be done. Never was a Mitch hater, but that move deserved termination.


They didn't do it for the heck or sake of it, they did it because no one relevant was gonna sign here that summer so they went ahead and ended up missing. The good thing is that the Organization knew the signings were not the right moves and have learned there lesson.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:45 pm    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.


If we had given him a 2 year deal with a option on third, it wouldn't be such a bad deal, I actually think no one is at fault for the contract and the length of it... the reality is that we wanted to get something done and it backfired and as a result the people who were responsible for the unfortunate situation are now out of the FO job.


The reality is this is simply the penalty a team pays when it changes plans.

Just another example of the instability and chaos that is the earmark of a losing team grasping for anything to change the course.

Same as when bad teams shuffle HCs and make dramatic changes in system philosophy and the subsequent roster changes every couple years.

Oh yeah, done that too.


The previous regime did there work and couldn't do the job, the Howard and Nash move could have made us a dynasty but it didn't. Every couple of years GMs get fired in due because there plan failed, what happened last summer is bygones, it's time to move on and let the new FO work towards making us a respected franchise again.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Question:

If he seeks a medical retirement (due to geriatrics) does his salary come off of our cap space books?


It would one year after the last game he played. But what physician is going to declare that Deng is unable to play? He is aged but still capable of playing the game.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Question:

If he seeks a medical retirement (due to geriatrics) does his salary come off of our cap space books?


It would one year after the last game he played. But what physician is going to declare that Deng is unable to play? He is aged but still capable of playing the game.


Agreed. When we shut him down last year, he was our best SF. It's not like he's totally useless. Overpaid? - yes, but still an NBA caliber player. People keep conflating his contract with his play.
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kevin61
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:33 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Nash Vegas wrote:
pio2u wrote:
Quote:
Luol Deng‏Verified account @LuolDeng9 16h16 hours ago

I'm very thankful to have the chance to come back every summer with the NBA to grow the game in Africa! #NBAfricaGame #BWB #NBA #SouthAfrica




Deng couldn't even get off the bench during the NBA Africa Game. He couldn't even beat out Salah Mejri (who?!?!?) for playing time!

To see how far he's fallen off is mind blowing to think the contract Mitch/Jim gave him.


He had surgery to repair his right pectoral muscle back in May. He has not been cleared to play.

However, injured or not, that contract is mind-blowing to say the least.


If we had given him a 2 year deal with a option on third, it wouldn't be such a bad deal, I actually think no one is at fault for the contract and the length of it... the reality is that we wanted to get something done and it backfired and as a result the people who were responsible for the unfortunate situation are now out of the FO job.


Someone (or two) is definitely at fault. Doing something just to do it is the most foolish thing that can be done. Never was a Mitch hater, but that move deserved termination.


They didn't do it for the heck or sake of it, they did it because no one relevant was gonna sign here that summer so they went ahead and ended up missing. The good thing is that the Organization knew the signings were not the right moves and have learned there lesson.

That makes no sense. Signing "anyone", because no one relelevent would sign, means that you did it for "the heck of it". Knowing that you did something very stupid moments after you did it doesn't make you smarter, it makes you a fool.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Question:

If he seeks a medical retirement (due to geriatrics) does his salary come off of our cap space books?


It would one year after the last game he played. But what physician is going to declare that Deng is unable to play? He is aged but still capable of playing the game.


I agree, he's healthy enough to play, just not very good and certainly not useful to the team.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:20 am    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Question:

If he seeks a medical retirement (due to geriatrics) does his salary come off of our cap space books?


It would one year after the last game he played. But what physician is going to declare that Deng is unable to play? He is aged but still capable of playing the game.


I agree, he's healthy enough to play, just not very good and certainly not useful to the team.



Curious about retirement rules without the medical reasons. If he simply chose to retire from basketball and move on to other interests? What are the rules of payout and salary cap implications for the Lakers.

Maybe a wink wink deal to make him the highest paid scout in Africa? Or the Lakers pumping tens of millions into the African Basketball development community?

Not saying this is in any way likely. Another $54M would be tough to walk away from. Also I think Deng will have a bigger role and contribute this season more then most are expecting as a 15-20mpg backup.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:19 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Question:

If he seeks a medical retirement (due to geriatrics) does his salary come off of our cap space books?


It would one year after the last game he played. But what physician is going to declare that Deng is unable to play? He is aged but still capable of playing the game.


I agree, he's healthy enough to play, just not very good and certainly not useful to the team.



Curious about retirement rules without the medical reasons. If he simply chose to retire from basketball and move on to other interests? What are the rules of payout and salary cap implications for the Lakers.

Maybe a wink wink deal to make him the highest paid scout in Africa? Or the Lakers pumping tens of millions into the African Basketball development community?

Not saying this is in any way likely. Another $54M would be tough to walk away from. Also I think Deng will have a bigger role and contribute this season more then most are expecting as a 15-20mpg backup.

If you retire you forfeit your salary. Any under the table agreement would be discovered. It's hard to hide 18 million dollars a year in expenditures when your books are open to the league.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:29 am    Post subject:

kevin61 wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
kevin61 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Question:

If he seeks a medical retirement (due to geriatrics) does his salary come off of our cap space books?


It would one year after the last game he played. But what physician is going to declare that Deng is unable to play? He is aged but still capable of playing the game.


I agree, he's healthy enough to play, just not very good and certainly not useful to the team.



Curious about retirement rules without the medical reasons. If he simply chose to retire from basketball and move on to other interests? What are the rules of payout and salary cap implications for the Lakers.

Maybe a wink wink deal to make him the highest paid scout in Africa? Or the Lakers pumping tens of millions into the African Basketball development community?

Not saying this is in any way likely. Another $54M would be tough to walk away from. Also I think Deng will have a bigger role and contribute this season more then most are expecting as a 15-20mpg backup.

If you retire you forfeit your salary. Any under the table agreement would be discovered. It's hard to hide 18 million dollars a year in expenditures when your books are open to the league.


That was what I thought. Salary completely off the books.

As for the wink wink comment. It was meant as more of a joke. But to press the point. How would it be considered illegal by the league?

Sign Deng to a couple million a year to scout African talent. (an emerging hot bed of talent) And commit to $10M a year for five years to support the developmental program in Africa that Deng works with. Could probably be a tax write-off for the Lakers.

Maybe considered shady, but not illegal.

But again, don't see it happening. Just a conversation.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:52 am    Post subject:

The most likely scenario is moving Deng on draft day. That way we can attach a first round pick with him.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:57 am    Post subject:

True Lakers Fan wrote:
The most likely scenario is moving Deng on draft day. That way we can attach a first round pick with him.


After picking for the other team... that won't count as back to back pick trade

But if we make the playoff as my delusional self think we will, that pick won't be nearly enough unless the Deng farewell tour turn to Deng redemption tour this season
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:16 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
True Lakers Fan wrote:
The most likely scenario is moving Deng on draft day. That way we can attach a first round pick with him.


After picking for the other team... that won't count as back to back pick trade

But if we make the playoff as my delusional self think we will, that pick won't be nearly enough unless the Deng farewell tour turn to Deng redemption tour this season


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment but Lakers do not currently have a pick next summer. Both of theirs are gone in trade obligations.

They do have the CHI 2nd that could be in the low 30s. That and a future 1st would potentially be enough to move Deng if that is how the Lakers choose approach it.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:18 am    Post subject:

Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
governator wrote:
True Lakers Fan wrote:
The most likely scenario is moving Deng on draft day. That way we can attach a first round pick with him.


After picking for the other team... that won't count as back to back pick trade

But if we make the playoff as my delusional self think we will, that pick won't be nearly enough unless the Deng farewell tour turn to Deng redemption tour this season


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment but Lakers do not currently have a pick next summer. Both of theirs are gone in trade obligations.

They do have the CHI 2nd that could be in the low 30s. That and a future 1st would potentially be enough to move Deng if that is how the Lakers choose approach it.


you're right
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:09 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Four Decade Bandwagon wrote:
governator wrote:
True Lakers Fan wrote:
The most likely scenario is moving Deng on draft day. That way we can attach a first round pick with him.


After picking for the other team... that won't count as back to back pick trade

But if we make the playoff as my delusional self think we will, that pick won't be nearly enough unless the Deng farewell tour turn to Deng redemption tour this season


Maybe I'm misunderstanding your comment but Lakers do not currently have a pick next summer. Both of theirs are gone in trade obligations.

They do have the CHI 2nd that could be in the low 30s. That and a future 1st would potentially be enough to move Deng if that is how the Lakers choose approach it.


you're right


Problem with this scenario is the Lakers don't have an option to take back expiring contracts to match Deng. So if we were to wait until draft night and are now eligible to trade the 2019 first rounder along with Deng, a team would have to have the cap space to absorb the contract. Cap space is more valuable next season than this offseason which may offset the value of having one less year of Deng's contract from this year.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:11 am    Post subject:

How would you divide the % chances for the following to happen:

1. stretch in 2018 (IMO, 70%)

2. trade in 2017 (IMO, 5%)

3. trade in 2018 (IMO 20%).
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
How would you divide the % chances for the following to happen:

1. stretch in 2018 (IMO, 70%)

2. trade in 2017 (IMO, 5%)

3. trade in 2018 (IMO 20%).


Not even a 5% chance they keep him for another year if all the most discussed marquee free agents stay where they are or sign elsewhere?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject:

At least we got Mozgov off of our books. Stretching the last 2 years of Deng is bad, but not nearly as bad as having to stretch both guys.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
At least we got Mozgov off of our books. Stretching the last 2 years of Deng is bad, but not nearly as bad as having to stretch both guys.

I agree, the deals will go down as two of the all time worst. Especially for a team that's rebuilding and needed to preserve cap space. Imagine if we'd just never made them how much better off we'd be. It's just mind blowing.
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 10:27 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
How would you divide the % chances for the following to happen:

1. stretch in 2018 (IMO, 70%)

2. trade in 2017 (IMO, 5%)

3. trade in 2018 (IMO 20%).


trade in 2018: 80%
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:22 am    Post subject:

Trading Deng is certainly possible if we attach some pretty assets.

The hard part of trading him with some nice and juicy assets is that you have to take back salary which is where the big problem is.

You might get back a better player with a shorter contract but that doesn't solve the problem.

Maybe you get a guy back who also stinks but only has 1 year left and you stretch that guy to lower the salary cap impact. Maybe he is owed less. That would seem like a possibility.

Most likely he gets stretched next year
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject:

Has he been playing in the Africa games?
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