GOODBYE LUOL DENG (Deng Bought Out & Stretched, p. 133)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:55 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Rose and Gibson are already Wolves. Along with Butler.
They just need Deng and Noah.

Rose
Butler
Deng
Gibson
Noah

They just need Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Kirk Hinrich to come out of retirement to be the 2013 Bulls.


Seriously. Wow. Thibs.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject:

I can’t see how anyone is gonna take Minny seriously, they are collecting former players that played under Thibs, it’s like they are creating a circus show...
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I can’t see how anyone is gonna take Minny seriously, they are collecting former players that played under Thibs, it’s like they are creating a circus show...


Take a 10,000 foot view.

When Towns & Wiggins are bitching about their touches or roles on the team, and there's a confrontation (metaphorical or otherwise) in the locker room, who's gonna back up the coach/GM/president? LOL, could you imagine KAT, Andrew and Tyus Jones walking up to Thibs, and Tom just snaps his fingers and Taj, Noah, Deng, Butler & Rose shuffle over, arms crossed, nodding "whats up?"

Ok, so I'm taking the extreme here, but the point is, he's getting backup for his culture and how he wants to run things.

* Glen Taylor walks into Thibs office to fire him... Thibs snaps his fingers again... the Bulls Crew walks in and surrounds Taylor... "uh, yeah, five-year extension, Tom! Congrats!"
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
epak wrote:
Rose and Gibson are already Wolves. Along with Butler.
They just need Deng and Noah.

Rose
Butler
Deng
Gibson
Noah

They just need Mike Dunleavy Jr. and Kirk Hinrich to come out of retirement to be the 2013 Bulls.


Seriously. Wow. Thibs.


talk about living in the past
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:46 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I can’t see how anyone is gonna take Minny seriously, they are collecting former players that played under Thibs, it’s like they are creating a circus show...


former washed up players
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:51 am    Post subject:

Pelton's take...

Quote:
Los Angeles Lakers
1. Agreed to a reported buyout with forward Luol Deng

The Lakers are taking a risk by agreeing to buy out Deng now, with two seasons remaining on his contract, but it's one that's probably worth it given how much money Deng agreed to give back.

While Deng previously sat on the Lakers' 2019-20 books for $18.6 million, there was never any chance he was going to be part of their roster beyond July 2019. At worst, the Lakers would have waived him and stretched his salary then, leaving $6.2 million on their books. Agreeing to a buyout now reduces that amount.

The $7.5 million Deng forfeited, per a report by ESPN's Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski, will be spread over the two remaining seasons proportional to Deng's remaining salary. Then the 2019-20 portion will be spread over the three stretched years, meaning Deng will count $5 million against the Lakers' cap from 2019-20 through 2021-22 -- $1.2 million less than the full amount before his buyout.

Every dollar will count for the Lakers next summer as they seek to create enough cap space to potentially make a max offer to a player with 10-plus years of experience. Getting to the maximum for players with seven to nine years of experience -- a group that includes possible free agent Kawhi Leonard, as well as Jimmy Butler and Klay Thompson -- should be easy if the cap comes in, as projected, at $109 million.

The Lakers should have a minimum of $70.3 million in salary for 2019-20, counting Deng's cap hit, their guaranteed contracts and team options for Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma -- all of them appear certain to be exercised by Oct. 31. That would mean $38.7 million in space under the current cap projection, just enough for the 10-year max offer to a player like Kevin Durant ($38.15 million).

It's worth remembering two things, however. That figure does not include a cap hold for the Lakers' first-round pick, which could cut into their cap space substantially, depending where they finish in the standings this season. It's also just a projection. If the cap were to come in lower than expected, the Lakers might no longer have enough space to max a full 10-plus max offer without starting to trade some of their guaranteed contracts.

In those scenarios, the easiest way for the Lakers to get to max cap space might have been trading Deng heading into the final season of his contract, when swallowing his contract is no longer so onerous for another team. (The number of teams with cap space next summer also figures to make it more of a sellers' market for bad salary than the buyers' market it is right now.) Buying out Deng now takes away the option of trading him. So there is risk here.

That noted, I think Deng's giveback was big enough to make this worth doing for the Lakers. Though a buyout was possible next summer, with one year left on his deal Deng would not have had as much incentive to give back any guaranteed money. Completing a buyout now allows him to find another team and potentially rebuild his value, rather than spending another season wallowing on the Lakers' bench.

The Lakers also do add a roster spot, giving them the chance to keep one of the young players they've invited to training camp, rather than waste the spot on Deng -- who clearly no longer figured into their plans just two years after he was L.A.'s marquee signing in the reckless summer of 2016.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject:

Jesusdelonla wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I can’t see how anyone is gonna take Minny seriously, they are collecting former players that played under Thibs, it’s like they are creating a circus show...


former washed up players


If they don’t start making real moves to help there team, I have them potentially struggling to make the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 12:04 pm    Post subject:

cyborgspider wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I can’t see how anyone is gonna take Minny seriously, they are collecting former players that played under Thibs, it’s like they are creating a circus show...


Take a 10,000 foot view.

When Towns & Wiggins are bitching about their touches or roles on the team, and there's a confrontation (metaphorical or otherwise) in the locker room, who's gonna back up the coach/GM/president? LOL, could you imagine KAT, Andrew and Tyus Jones walking up to Thibs, and Tom just snaps his fingers and Taj, Noah, Deng, Butler & Rose shuffle over, arms crossed, nodding "whats up?"

Ok, so I'm taking the extreme here, but the point is, he's getting backup for his culture and how he wants to run things.

* Glen Taylor walks into Thibs office to fire him... Thibs snaps his fingers again... the Bulls Crew walks in and surrounds Taylor... "uh, yeah, five-year extension, Tom! Congrats!"


I hope Towns doesn’t sign the extension despite the Wolves GM saying he’s confident he will, they have regressed this summer..
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:19 pm    Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtW7s1WcIjI

Marks states on this segment that Deng's people did not advise that he give back the 7.5 million. It was Deng himself that agreed to do it because he wanted to play. All things considered, I think the Lakers did well.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:31 pm    Post subject:

LakersKobeBrynt8 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtW7s1WcIjI

Marks states on this segment that Deng's people did not advise that he give back the 7.5 million. It was Deng himself that agreed to do it because he wanted to play. All things considered, I think the Lakers did well.


I once heard fans say he would never take a discount in a buyout.
Thanks Deng!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 9:32 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Pelton's take...

Quote:
Los Angeles Lakers
1. Agreed to a reported buyout with forward Luol Deng

The Lakers are taking a risk by agreeing to buy out Deng now, with two seasons remaining on his contract, but it's one that's probably worth it given how much money Deng agreed to give back.

While Deng previously sat on the Lakers' 2019-20 books for $18.6 million, there was never any chance he was going to be part of their roster beyond July 2019. At worst, the Lakers would have waived him and stretched his salary then, leaving $6.2 million on their books. Agreeing to a buyout now reduces that amount.

The $7.5 million Deng forfeited, per a report by ESPN's Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski, will be spread over the two remaining seasons proportional to Deng's remaining salary. Then the 2019-20 portion will be spread over the three stretched years, meaning Deng will count $5 million against the Lakers' cap from 2019-20 through 2021-22 -- $1.2 million less than the full amount before his buyout.

Every dollar will count for the Lakers next summer as they seek to create enough cap space to potentially make a max offer to a player with 10-plus years of experience. Getting to the maximum for players with seven to nine years of experience -- a group that includes possible free agent Kawhi Leonard, as well as Jimmy Butler and Klay Thompson -- should be easy if the cap comes in, as projected, at $109 million.

The Lakers should have a minimum of $70.3 million in salary for 2019-20, counting Deng's cap hit, their guaranteed contracts and team options for Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma -- all of them appear certain to be exercised by Oct. 31. That would mean $38.7 million in space under the current cap projection, just enough for the 10-year max offer to a player like Kevin Durant ($38.15 million).

It's worth remembering two things, however. That figure does not include a cap hold for the Lakers' first-round pick, which could cut into their cap space substantially, depending where they finish in the standings this season. It's also just a projection. If the cap were to come in lower than expected, the Lakers might no longer have enough space to max a full 10-plus max offer without starting to trade some of their guaranteed contracts.

In those scenarios, the easiest way for the Lakers to get to max cap space might have been trading Deng heading into the final season of his contract, when swallowing his contract is no longer so onerous for another team. (The number of teams with cap space next summer also figures to make it more of a sellers' market for bad salary than the buyers' market it is right now.) Buying out Deng now takes away the option of trading him. So there is risk here.

That noted, I think Deng's giveback was big enough to make this worth doing for the Lakers. Though a buyout was possible next summer, with one year left on his deal Deng would not have had as much incentive to give back any guaranteed money. Completing a buyout now allows him to find another team and potentially rebuild his value, rather than spending another season wallowing on the Lakers' bench.

The Lakers also do add a roster spot, giving them the chance to keep one of the young players they've invited to training camp, rather than waste the spot on Deng -- who clearly no longer figured into their plans just two years after he was L.A.'s marquee signing in the reckless summer of 2016.


A couple questions:

1) Article says every dollar counts - especially if the cap comes in lower next year. If every dollar truly counts - why did we draft Mo, Svi, and especially Bonga. I think those 3 count $5 mil against the cap next yr. Why not try and trade the picks for future picks and preserve the cap space. Again, this is only assuming that every dollar truly does count.

2) What would be our cap situation had we signed Paul George?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:24 pm    Post subject:

Long Beach poly, here’s my take:

1) every dollar counts IF Durant is their target. They can trade the 2019 pick, draft and stash an international player, or swap for second rounders to save cash. Svi is unguaranteed for next season, Bonga is making the minimum but can be waived and stretched to save every penny. But if Kawhi is their target, all this is moot because he would be making 32.7m which easily fits under the cap.

2) I mean, they would have had to traded Deng and not signed Rondo and Lance (and still renounce Randle) in order to get PG. they wouldn’t have had cap space next season unless they started dumping young players and assets.

Long story short: every “expert” agrees that the lakers made out well and have the space to meet their goals. It’s a vocal minority of fans who think they could’ve done better And wouldn’t be happy with any result.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:01 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I can’t see how anyone is gonna take Minny seriously, they are collecting former players that played under Thibs, it’s like they are creating a circus show...

Not sure we're in the best position to make fun of a team and call them a circus show We've acquired JaVale McGee, Lance Stephenson and Michael Beasley all in one offseason. If you don't consider that to be comical, take your Laker-homer glasses off. If another team did that we'd find it downright hysterical. Let's just be honest.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:10 am    Post subject:

Every dollar does count. Also, it would not shock me if the FO surprises everyone and signs 2 players for 19 per. Players are going to take a big haircut to play with LJ. If we have a good season (which we will), there will be a conga line to join the party.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 5:54 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Every dollar does count. Also, it would not shock me if the FO surprises everyone and signs 2 players for 19 per. Players are going to take a big haircut to play with LJ. If we have a good season (which we will), there will be a conga line to join the party.


Yeah, if every dollar truly does count, then having Mo and Bonga on the team are head scratchers to me.

I didn't know Svi was only guaranteed for 1 year - that makes sense.

Bonga being guaranteed for next year is a head scratcher, especially for a long term project and "every dollar counting." Plus, they actually traded next year's 2nd rd pick to draft Bonga this year, thus adding his guaranteed salary to the books.

Would there have been a cap hold for next year's 2nd rd pick? I know there is one for 1st rd picks.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:06 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
Every dollar does count. Also, it would not shock me if the FO surprises everyone and signs 2 players for 19 per. Players are going to take a big haircut to play with LJ. If we have a good season (which we will), there will be a conga line to join the party.


Who do you have in mind? B/c I take a 5 carat diamond (i.e. KD/KL) over 2 2.5 carat diamonds.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:09 am    Post subject:

I've been busy so I didn’t get a chance to weigh in on this.

Absolutely the best move of the off season!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:10 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Pelton's take...

Quote:
Los Angeles Lakers
1. Agreed to a reported buyout with forward Luol Deng

The Lakers are taking a risk by agreeing to buy out Deng now, with two seasons remaining on his contract, but it's one that's probably worth it given how much money Deng agreed to give back.

While Deng previously sat on the Lakers' 2019-20 books for $18.6 million, there was never any chance he was going to be part of their roster beyond July 2019. At worst, the Lakers would have waived him and stretched his salary then, leaving $6.2 million on their books. Agreeing to a buyout now reduces that amount.

The $7.5 million Deng forfeited, per a report by ESPN's Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski, will be spread over the two remaining seasons proportional to Deng's remaining salary. Then the 2019-20 portion will be spread over the three stretched years, meaning Deng will count $5 million against the Lakers' cap from 2019-20 through 2021-22 -- $1.2 million less than the full amount before his buyout.

Every dollar will count for the Lakers next summer as they seek to create enough cap space to potentially make a max offer to a player with 10-plus years of experience. Getting to the maximum for players with seven to nine years of experience -- a group that includes possible free agent Kawhi Leonard, as well as Jimmy Butler and Klay Thompson -- should be easy if the cap comes in, as projected, at $109 million.

The Lakers should have a minimum of $70.3 million in salary for 2019-20, counting Deng's cap hit, their guaranteed contracts and team options for Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma -- all of them appear certain to be exercised by Oct. 31. That would mean $38.7 million in space under the current cap projection, just enough for the 10-year max offer to a player like Kevin Durant ($38.15 million).

It's worth remembering two things, however. That figure does not include a cap hold for the Lakers' first-round pick, which could cut into their cap space substantially, depending where they finish in the standings this season. It's also just a projection. If the cap were to come in lower than expected, the Lakers might no longer have enough space to max a full 10-plus max offer without starting to trade some of their guaranteed contracts.

In those scenarios, the easiest way for the Lakers to get to max cap space might have been trading Deng heading into the final season of his contract, when swallowing his contract is no longer so onerous for another team. (The number of teams with cap space next summer also figures to make it more of a sellers' market for bad salary than the buyers' market it is right now.) Buying out Deng now takes away the option of trading him. So there is risk here.

That noted, I think Deng's giveback was big enough to make this worth doing for the Lakers. Though a buyout was possible next summer, with one year left on his deal Deng would not have had as much incentive to give back any guaranteed money. Completing a buyout now allows him to find another team and potentially rebuild his value, rather than spending another season wallowing on the Lakers' bench.

The Lakers also do add a roster spot, giving them the chance to keep one of the young players they've invited to training camp, rather than waste the spot on Deng -- who clearly no longer figured into their plans just two years after he was L.A.'s marquee signing in the reckless summer of 2016.


A couple questions:

1) Article says every dollar counts - especially if the cap comes in lower next year. If every dollar truly counts - why did we draft Mo, Svi, and especially Bonga. I think those 3 count $5 mil against the cap next yr. Why not try and trade the picks for future picks and preserve the cap space. Again, this is only assuming that every dollar truly does count.

2) What would be our cap situation had we signed Paul George?


I think the Lakers realize that the chances of getting Durant here next year are pretty low. If he does want to come, great, he'll take a tiny bit less or they will find a way to free up a bit of extra salary. But they can’t stop building for the future on that premise.

If, as is more likely, they are able to sign Kawhi, Klay, or Butler, then things won’t be so tight.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:14 am    Post subject:

One of the following will likely be a Laker next year.

KD
KL
Klay
Butler.

Pretty amazing.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:32 am    Post subject:

markjay wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Pelton's take...

Quote:
Los Angeles Lakers
1. Agreed to a reported buyout with forward Luol Deng

The Lakers are taking a risk by agreeing to buy out Deng now, with two seasons remaining on his contract, but it's one that's probably worth it given how much money Deng agreed to give back.

While Deng previously sat on the Lakers' 2019-20 books for $18.6 million, there was never any chance he was going to be part of their roster beyond July 2019. At worst, the Lakers would have waived him and stretched his salary then, leaving $6.2 million on their books. Agreeing to a buyout now reduces that amount.

The $7.5 million Deng forfeited, per a report by ESPN's Ramona Shelburne and Adrian Wojnarowski, will be spread over the two remaining seasons proportional to Deng's remaining salary. Then the 2019-20 portion will be spread over the three stretched years, meaning Deng will count $5 million against the Lakers' cap from 2019-20 through 2021-22 -- $1.2 million less than the full amount before his buyout.

Every dollar will count for the Lakers next summer as they seek to create enough cap space to potentially make a max offer to a player with 10-plus years of experience. Getting to the maximum for players with seven to nine years of experience -- a group that includes possible free agent Kawhi Leonard, as well as Jimmy Butler and Klay Thompson -- should be easy if the cap comes in, as projected, at $109 million.

The Lakers should have a minimum of $70.3 million in salary for 2019-20, counting Deng's cap hit, their guaranteed contracts and team options for Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Brandon Ingram and Kyle Kuzma -- all of them appear certain to be exercised by Oct. 31. That would mean $38.7 million in space under the current cap projection, just enough for the 10-year max offer to a player like Kevin Durant ($38.15 million).

It's worth remembering two things, however. That figure does not include a cap hold for the Lakers' first-round pick, which could cut into their cap space substantially, depending where they finish in the standings this season. It's also just a projection. If the cap were to come in lower than expected, the Lakers might no longer have enough space to max a full 10-plus max offer without starting to trade some of their guaranteed contracts.

In those scenarios, the easiest way for the Lakers to get to max cap space might have been trading Deng heading into the final season of his contract, when swallowing his contract is no longer so onerous for another team. (The number of teams with cap space next summer also figures to make it more of a sellers' market for bad salary than the buyers' market it is right now.) Buying out Deng now takes away the option of trading him. So there is risk here.

That noted, I think Deng's giveback was big enough to make this worth doing for the Lakers. Though a buyout was possible next summer, with one year left on his deal Deng would not have had as much incentive to give back any guaranteed money. Completing a buyout now allows him to find another team and potentially rebuild his value, rather than spending another season wallowing on the Lakers' bench.

The Lakers also do add a roster spot, giving them the chance to keep one of the young players they've invited to training camp, rather than waste the spot on Deng -- who clearly no longer figured into their plans just two years after he was L.A.'s marquee signing in the reckless summer of 2016.


A couple questions:

1) Article says every dollar counts - especially if the cap comes in lower next year. If every dollar truly counts - why did we draft Mo, Svi, and especially Bonga. I think those 3 count $5 mil against the cap next yr. Why not try and trade the picks for future picks and preserve the cap space. Again, this is only assuming that every dollar truly does count.

2) What would be our cap situation had we signed Paul George?


I think the Lakers realize that the chances of getting Durant here next year are pretty low. If he does want to come, great, he'll take a tiny bit less or they will find a way to free up a bit of extra salary. But they can’t stop building for the future on that premise.

If, as is more likely, they are able to sign Kawhi, Klay, or Butler, then things won’t be so tight.


Basically what you're saying is it's more likely that every dollar doesn't truly matter, that we factored all of this into it and we have enough space to accomplish what we want next year.

What I was asking was - if every dollar truly did matter (as suggested by the reading) - meaning things were really that tight - if that was truly the case...

THEN, I don't understand the Mo and Bonga draft and signings.

I mean, they brought up the point that the difference between $6.2 mil and $5 mil (a difference of $1.2 mil) was a going to be a BIG deal.

If $1.2 mil was going to make that BIG of a difference, then the Bonga signing makes less sense since that's $1.5 mil right there.

Think about it, in order to save $1.2 mil, we had to get Deng to take a buyout of $7.5 mil less and everyone is saying, wow what a great deal we got.

All that to save $1.2 mil which we could have saved by not trading our 2019 2nd rd pick for this yrs 2nd rd pick to draft Bonga and give him $1.5 mil guaranteed.

Basically, the $1.2 mil we saved from the Deng buyout went to pay for Bonga's $1.5 mil salary next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
One of the following will likely be a Laker next year.

KD
KL
Klay
Butler.

Pretty amazing.


yup..

ranked in order of likeliness vs who I want

Kawhi KD
Butler Kawhi
KD Klay
Klay Butler

IMO, Butler is ours if we want him...Only thing that could change that is NY signing Kyrie and creating space to sign him with Irving. However, I do think Jimmy has wanted to be a Laker and there has been rumors about him desiring LA since he got his last deal from Chicago. I believe Jimmy Kimmell even asked about it in an interview.

That said, no doubt KD and Kawhi are the top choices. Either way, I feel great about getting anyone of those guys and once they get locked in a room with Magic and LeBron, it's over.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 6:50 am    Post subject:

All four of those guys significantly improve the team. Poaching a Warrior undermines their team (and they have no cap space to replace either KD or Klay's services, with the former being more difficult to replace).
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:02 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Every dollar does count. Also, it would not shock me if the FO surprises everyone and signs 2 players for 19 per. Players are going to take a big haircut to play with LJ. If we have a good season (which we will), there will be a conga line to join the party.


Who do you have in mind? B/c I take a 5 carat diamond (i.e. KD/KL) over 2 2.5 carat diamonds.


I think he's dreaming of a scenario in which we got two 5 carat diamonds for the price of two 2.5 carat diamonds. It's not impossible, but it is certainly improbable.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:06 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
Every dollar does count. Also, it would not shock me if the FO surprises everyone and signs 2 players for 19 per. Players are going to take a big haircut to play with LJ. If we have a good season (which we will), there will be a conga line to join the party.


Who do you have in mind? B/c I take a 5 carat diamond (i.e. KD/KL) over 2 2.5 carat diamonds.


I think he's dreaming of a scenario in which we got two 5 carat diamonds for the price of two 2.5 carat diamonds. It's not impossible, but it is certainly improbable.


It's very improbable. Although not like 2016, the 2019 market will see a bunch of teams with massive cap space. So the top tier guys will get their full max deals and even opportunities to team up if they want at max deals.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2018 7:12 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
All four of those guys significantly improve the team. Poaching a Warrior undermines their team (and they have no cap space to replace either KD or Klay's services, with the former being more difficult to replace).


I like the idea of going at them

LeBron/Kawhi/BI/Kuz/Lonzo/Hart vs KD/Curry/Klay/Dray/Iggy
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