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2019
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | This contract sucks. |
He's shown value, and has helped the team in few of there games, the team just hasn't clicked overall and that can potentially be the reason for the empty stats. |
He's shown value at $8MM per year or on a 2 year deal. He's shown nothing to justify his albatross contract. Same with Deng.
Just for drama reasons... had we used our money differently and preserved cap space as out priority (even over wins-- which we'd probably be in the same position no matter who we signed) ... it'd be possible to add Hayward, Noel, and someone like Iggy this summer.
Tell me that is not a far better usage of money.
But like you said, we need to groom Zu and let Moz just collect his checks as a substitute teacher. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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Reality is Mozgov can be putting up 5/4 with weak defense and nothing in the PnR game (The 2 reasons we signed him) and people would still defend the signing.
Just looked up some interesting stats. Mozgov and Hibbert (from last season) are averaging the same amount of PPP on PnR as the roll man (0.93/0.94). 
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: |
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So the problem doesn't seem to be with Mozgov. Maybe that is part of the reason DLO's butt is parked on the bench?
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | This contract sucks. |
He's shown value, and has helped the team in few of there games, the team just hasn't clicked overall and that can potentially be the reason for the empty stats. |
I'm not really talking about Mozgov, just his contract. I mean, Mozgov has been terrible, but I get that he's a physical presence that can be tough for opposition to play against, etc
Mozgov's contract sucks. |
I understand the lack of excitement with the money given to him, I still think he's gonna be a good difference maker once the over all team clicks either by this season or next, it's not like he's the only one who's been struggling, money isn't a reason to be more critical, He wasn't signed to lead us to the playoffs, he was bought in to help with experience which some of that has payed him in some games. |
Well, more power to you. But if he wasn't signed to lead us to the playoffs, then we're paying $16mil a year for a mediocre role player. Sorry, Mozzy. That's crippling. |
If one thinks that not spending on Mozgov would net us a star player they are pretty optimistic. The reality is, Mozgov and Deng were the best we could do. |
I could care less if the team couldn't get a star player. They're not poised for that yet.
You. Don't. Spend. Money. For. The. Sake. Of. Spending. Money.
Stand pat! Stay flexible! Wait for the right deal!
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Sorry, we did that for 3 seasons and they were the worst we ever had. Doing it again would almost be criminal. But continue to live the dream that a top FA would want to come here.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: |
If one thinks that not spending on Mozgov would net us a star player they are pretty optimistic. The reality is, Mozgov and Deng were the best we could do. |
then you simply do nothing....being bad with flexibility is more optimal than being bad strapped with bad contracts. It was not a good contract, and we cant continue to point at what the Magic paid Biyombo or Washington paid Mahinmi as an excuse....because in the end, it is three bad teams making 3 separate bad decisions. These guys should have all been in the 3 years @ $36 - $40 Million range at most. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sorry, we did that for 3 seasons and they were the worst we ever had. Doing it again would almost be criminal. But continue to live the dream that a top FA would want to come here. |
I'm not talking about a top FA. Sign Leuer for the deal the Pistons did. Get players on affordable stepping stones to lift the team to a point where they can have their vet presence contributing AND be good enough to get a high impact player (still not really talking about a star) without being capped out.
The money doesn't make sense. The years don't make sense given the money. He's our worst center compared to Tarik Black and possibly Zubac right now. I'm done with it.
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | unleasHell wrote: | Sorry to pile on, but consider this:
In tonight's LOSS MosGoof ($16mil/yr) had 4 points and 1 rebound was completely dominated by some no-name center (making $1.3mil/yr) who had 29 points and 15 rebounds!
Ok the other center played a lot more minutes, but just what are the Lakers paying MosGoof for?
MosGoof is averaging a whopping 21.3 Minutes per game?! Considering a game is 48 minutes, that equates to about 37% - meaning he is NOT playing 63% of the time! That ranks him 25th in minutes among NBA Centers.
MosGoof is ranked 27th in Points/game among NBA Centers.
MosGoof is ranked 34th in Rebounds/game among NBA Centers
MosGoof is ranked 39th in Blocks/game among NBA Centers
Yet MosGoof is the 9th highest paid center in the NBA, ahead of Cousins, Tristan Thompson, Pau Gasol, etc...
And the Lakers are stuck with him for 3 years (after this season)! |
Got as far as the bolded and then gave up, if you think that is true then you need to watch some NBA basketball. |
Funny how you seem to like attacking my posts lately, but I'm game..
You said you read up to the bold, ok so? The bold states he is NOT playing in 63% of the Lakers games, it's NOT my opinion it is a fact!
The rest of the numbers (that you did not read) I pulled directly from the CBSsports.com site, again NOT my opinion, these were facts,
I'm am very sorry if facts offend you in someway, I assure you I did not mean to insult you...
Maybe you can skip over my posts in the future... or spend more time commenting on posts by the guys who think everything is great because we have won six more games than last year...
And I appreciate you telling me I need to watch more NBA games, I have seen nearly EVERY Laker game since Magic's first game, how about YOU???
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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Jokic is a no name center?
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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first off, he's having a very good 2nd half tonight
secondly, CAN WE START TRACKING MOZGOV'S MISSED DUNKS???
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Showed his best asset tonight, his size & strength.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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| This guy is awful. There's a reason the Cavs didn't play him in the playoffs. He shouldn't be starting over Zubac. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | This guy is awful. There's a reason the Cavs didn't play him in the playoffs. He shouldn't be starting over Zubac. |
To be honest Jefferson was scoring on Zubac with ease, that changed when Mozgov played in the 2nd half.
This is why I mentioned that he had value against certain big man. |
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tox
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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First time in a while Moz played good defense. Not sure if it was just a matter of effort, or his teammates did a better job not leaving him to dry.
I think it might be the latter... the Pacers are a bad shooting team and that helps the Lakers play PnR defense (where they can cheat off their defenders without too much risk) |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | This guy is awful. There's a reason the Cavs didn't play him in the playoffs. He shouldn't be starting over Zubac. |
That might be your worst idea yet. Did you see Zubac getting reamed tonight in 6 minutes? He is nowhere close to being ready to start.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | This guy is awful. There's a reason the Cavs didn't play him in the playoffs. He shouldn't be starting over Zubac. |
To be honest Jefferson was scoring on Zubac with ease, that changed when Mozgov played in the 2nd half.
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word. the kind of game that mozgov had tonight is what I'd like to see out of him more often. really mobile and engaged.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | This guy is awful. There's a reason the Cavs didn't play him in the playoffs. He shouldn't be starting over Zubac. |
That might be your worst idea yet. Did you see Zubac getting reamed tonight in 6 minutes? He is nowhere close to being ready to start. |
Yeah. Zub will get there but not this season. Until then moz starts though zub gets some steady minutes hopefully.
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ch3cky0selff00
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| ^ which I believe was the design behind Mosgov and Deng's signing to begin with. They're quality starters.. but they ensure that the Lakers don't have to rush anything with Ingram or Zubac. Walton seems very, very high on Zubac. |
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tox
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Sorry, we did that for 3 seasons and they were the worst we ever had. Doing it again would almost be criminal. But continue to live the dream that a top FA would want to come here. |
I'm not talking about a top FA. Sign Leuer for the deal the Pistons did. Get players on affordable stepping stones to lift the team to a point where they can have their vet presence contributing AND be good enough to get a high impact player (still not really talking about a star) without being capped out.
The money doesn't make sense. The years don't make sense given the money. He's our worst center compared to Tarik Black and possibly Zubac right now. I'm done with it. |
Lou, Tarik, and Nick's contracts are only a little more than Mozgov's, lol. |
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Jakanzi
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I wouldn't call him mediocre, hes in the same class as Alrich/Zaza/Bogut/NeNe/, mediocre is someone like Kwame or Hibbert. |
Mozgov is absolutely in the Kwame/Hibbert tier of terrible centers. I don't think people realize quite how bad he's been this season.
Some numbers:
RPM: -3.56 (67/68th among centers, only ahead of Okafor, was in the same place last year)
Net Rating: -10.4 (55/60th among centers who have started)
Among centers who have started at least 20 games
PER: 12.6 (35th/38)
Rebound rate: 12.5% (33rd/38)
Block rate: 2.0% (37th/38)
TS: 55.5% (26th/38)
TO%: 15.8% (28th/38)
Among the 22 players who have attempted 50 or more dunks he is last in percentage at 83% and is third in the league in missed dunks.
He is scoring 0.49 points per possessions of post ups, good for 2nd percentile
As pick and roll roll man he is scoring 0.94 points per possession, putting him at 36th percentile
Allows 61.1% at the rim, which is 61st/74 of qualifying centers who defend at least 2 shots there per game.
All the stuff above is backed up by the eye test too. I don't understand why he prefers to tap rebounds out instead of grabbing them. He has really bad hands. The TO% above probably understates how many turnovers that are his fault from dropped passes. He's slow.
The only positives for me are that he sets nice screens and he's a big body. He has genuinely made a difference in some of the games where we needed his post defense. I don't think we beat Sacramento earlier in the year without him. He has a nice mid range jumper that I wish he would extend out to the three point line at some point. It probably helps Zubac a little to go up against him in practice.
Beyond that, he's not average but actively bad at everything for his position on offense and defense.
This is all without mentioning his contract. He'd be bad even if we were paying him what we are paying Tarik. What makes it completely indefensible is that he was as bad or worse at all of the above last season. After a bad start, even Noah has played better.
He is by far the best argument to move on from Jim/Mitch because the contract represents a monumental mistake in evaluating talent, mismanaging cap space, and a lack of foresight with respect to understanding the FA market they were in. |
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999
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| This (bleep) needs to go. Hurts the team more than he helps. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder how much Randle's ineptitude on defense impacts Mozgov's defensive/rim protection numbers, if at all. Don't really know how those statistics work. Just check on/off I guess?
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tox
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | I wonder how much Randle's ineptitude on defense impacts Mozgov's defensive/rim protection numbers, if at all. Don't really know how those statistics work. Just check on/off I guess? |
It probably does a lot, but I don't think they have on/ off rim protection stats. That would be neat to look into, though. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Jakanzi wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I wouldn't call him mediocre, hes in the same class as Alrich/Zaza/Bogut/NeNe/, mediocre is someone like Kwame or Hibbert. |
Mozgov is absolutely in the Kwame/Hibbert tier of terrible centers. I don't think people realize quite how bad he's been this season.
Some numbers:
RPM: -3.56 (67/68th among centers, only ahead of Okafor, was in the same place last year)
Net Rating: -10.4 (55/60th among centers who have started)
Among centers who have started at least 20 games
PER: 12.6 (35th/38)
Rebound rate: 12.5% (33rd/38)
Block rate: 2.0% (37th/38)
TS: 55.5% (26th/38)
TO%: 15.8% (28th/38)
Among the 22 players who have attempted 50 or more dunks he is last in percentage at 83% and is third in the league in missed dunks.
He is scoring 0.49 points per possessions of post ups, good for 2nd percentile
As pick and roll roll man he is scoring 0.94 points per possession, putting him at 36th percentile
Allows 61.1% at the rim, which is 61st/74 of qualifying centers who defend at least 2 shots there per game.
All the stuff above is backed up by the eye test too. I don't understand why he prefers to tap rebounds out instead of grabbing them. He has really bad hands. The TO% above probably understates how many turnovers that are his fault from dropped passes. He's slow.
The only positives for me are that he sets nice screens and he's a big body. He has genuinely made a difference in some of the games where we needed his post defense. I don't think we beat Sacramento earlier in the year without him. He has a nice mid range jumper that I wish he would extend out to the three point line at some point. It probably helps Zubac a little to go up against him in practice.
Beyond that, he's not average but actively bad at everything for his position on offense and defense.
This is all without mentioning his contract. He'd be bad even if we were paying him what we are paying Tarik. What makes it completely indefensible is that he was as bad or worse at all of the above last season. After a bad start, even Noah has played better.
He is by far the best argument to move on from Jim/Mitch because the contract represents a monumental mistake in evaluating talent, mismanaging cap space, and a lack of foresight with respect to understanding the FA market they were in. |
Yikes. All the points I have been making all season in one post. Well said.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Absolutely abysmal as a rim protector. He overdoes that verticality nonsense. |
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