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Eindhoven
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 Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Kenny69 wrote: | 3rd match in FIBA EuroBasket 2017 qualification against Bosnia and Herzegovina
17 Pts, 6 Reb, 2 Blk, 2 Ast. 7/11 FG, 3/5 FT
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Good Deal. |
Worth noting Mozgov got those numbers against Nurkic (18pts , 13reb, 1blk, 1ast, 6/15 FG%).
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: |
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FWIW, Moz was #68 on SI's top 100 players last year. This year he's not on it (though I think he's going to have a reclamation year).
| Quote: | | Mozgov probably should not have been on the list last season. His dream first year in Cleveland gave way to a season in which he lost his starting job, fell out of the rotation and was slowed by injuries. Mozgov’s offensive RPM was second-worst among centers last year, and now he’ll be expected to play a bigger role for the Lakers. With a major downgrade in teammates, Mozgov’s game will only suffer more. — (Last year's ranking: 68) |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Kenny69 wrote: | 3rd match in FIBA EuroBasket 2017 qualification against Bosnia and Herzegovina
17 Pts, 6 Reb, 2 Blk, 2 Ast. 7/11 FG, 3/5 FT
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Good Deal. |
Worth noting Mozgov got those numbers against Nurkic (18pts , 13reb, 1blk, 1ast, 6/15 FG%). |
Nice!
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | tox wrote: | | The Logo wrote: | | tox wrote: |
Those are, uh, Hibbertian rebounding numbers. |
I honestly never found Hibbert's rebounding numbers that much of a problem since we had Julius last year |
No doubt, but once you pair up Hibbert with a poorer rebounder, then rebounding does become a problem.
For example, I have seen people opine that Deng/ Moz is the optimal 4/5 especially on offense for this team, but it's moot if they can't rebound. If Jules gets a reasonable jumper, then yeah I agree it's not a problem since you can simply play Jules alongside Moz for most of Moz's minutes. Otherwise, the spacing becomes pretty poor. |
Wonder if Luke would want Mozgod spacing the floor instead of Randle (in the lineup you described)? I remember the video that came out a couple weeks ago of Mozgod practicing 3s. It would bring the opposing teams Center away from the basket if he spaced the floor. And Randle is probably the better rebounder anyways (even though Mozgod had a higher OREB% last season). |
Yeah that'd be interesting but I don't think Mozgov is that good of a shooter lol. His jumper is pretty slow and IDK some practice 3s doesn't convince me he can get to the 32-33% in game time (on some decent consistency).
And yeah the other problem as you noted is that Moz is actually a pretty solid offensive rebounder; it's defensive where his rebounding is meh. So it'd be nice to have him around the basket on the offensive end.
Incidentally Zubac I think will hit 3 point range at some point in his career, so down the line they could become a pretty decent starting front court. |
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | FWIW, Moz was #68 on SI's top 100 players last year. This year he's not on it (though I think he's going to have a reclamation year).
| Quote: | | Mozgov probably should not have been on the list last season. His dream first year in Cleveland gave way to a season in which he lost his starting job, fell out of the rotation and was slowed by injuries. Mozgov’s offensive RPM was second-worst among centers last year, and now he’ll be expected to play a bigger role for the Lakers. With a major downgrade in teammates, Mozgov’s game will only suffer more. — (Last year's ranking: 68) |
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And this year they overrated Thompson (#51 or something). It's more about LeBron. If you fit with LeBron you will look way better than you are. If you don't, be ready for a role reduction.
#68 was probably too high last year but their reasoning for why (basically hindsight bias) makes it harder to take their opinions seriously. |
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Kenny69
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Eindhoven wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Kenny69 wrote: | 3rd match in FIBA EuroBasket 2017 qualification against Bosnia and Herzegovina
17 Pts, 6 Reb, 2 Blk, 2 Ast. 7/11 FG, 3/5 FT
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Good Deal. |
Worth noting Mozgov got those numbers against Nurkic (18pts , 13reb, 1blk, 1ast, 6/15 FG%). |
Look at the FG Nurkic, his failed most of his shots at the rim. Mozgov is like beton wall at the rim 
P.s. For all those complain about rebounds, it's completely different team and thats how they play. All players have equal number of rebounds
P.s.s. https://youtu.be/bzvUjzuIngY |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Kenny69 wrote: | | Eindhoven wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Kenny69 wrote: | 3rd match in FIBA EuroBasket 2017 qualification against Bosnia and Herzegovina
17 Pts, 6 Reb, 2 Blk, 2 Ast. 7/11 FG, 3/5 FT
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Good Deal. |
Worth noting Mozgov got those numbers against Nurkic (18pts , 13reb, 1blk, 1ast, 6/15 FG%). |
Look at the FG Nurkic, his failed most of his shots at the rim. Mozgov is like beton wall at the rim
P.s. For all those complain about rebounds, it's completely different team and thats how they play. All players have equal number of rebounds
P.s.s. https://youtu.be/bzvUjzuIngY |
Simply put, what we see from Mozgov is what we all wanted from Hibbert last year.
So we upgraded the big man position. |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | FWIW, Moz was #68 on SI's top 100 players last year. This year he's not on it (though I think he's going to have a reclamation year).
| Quote: | | Mozgov probably should not have been on the list last season. His dream first year in Cleveland gave way to a season in which he lost his starting job, fell out of the rotation and was slowed by injuries. Mozgov’s offensive RPM was second-worst among centers last year, and now he’ll be expected to play a bigger role for the Lakers. With a major downgrade in teammates, Mozgov’s game will only suffer more. — (Last year's ranking: 68) |
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And this year they overrated Thompson (#51 or something). It's more about LeBron. If you fit with LeBron you will look way better than you are. If you don't, be ready for a role reduction.
#68 was probably too high last year but their reasoning for why (basically hindsight bias) makes it harder to take their opinions seriously. |
Yeah they have Manu Ginobili in front of Devin Booker this year. Who knows. 
And some of the guys Tristan Thompson is ahead of... then going back and knocking their list from last year, saying Mozgov didn't even deserve to be on it for his experience THIS year? The guys who wrote this are a lot smarter than their list implies. It's pretty baffling.
Grab your coats, everyone, because Power Rankings season is coming up... and it's projected to be a cold one in LA |
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | I think the main reason he was brought here was to play defense and protect the rim, and in those capacities, I think he will do quite well. 10-12 point a game, 6-8 boards, probably 1.5 blocks and playing 24-30 minutes a game, depending on the matchups. Yeah the contract was expensive and too long, but it was pretty much the going price and we had a 17 win season. Players aren't coming here chasing rings, and taking large salary cuts just to play in LA. |
It doesn't matter how critical the contract was. He is better for this Lakers team then Ezeli or Biyombo.
This isn't about overpaying for role players to come here, it's about getting what's out there in a cap that gives role players a chance at a contract increase. |
The contracts DO matter, and he's not better for this team than Biyombo. |
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Kenny69 wrote: | | Eindhoven wrote: | | lukewaltonsdad wrote: | | Kenny69 wrote: | 3rd match in FIBA EuroBasket 2017 qualification against Bosnia and Herzegovina
17 Pts, 6 Reb, 2 Blk, 2 Ast. 7/11 FG, 3/5 FT
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Good Deal. |
Worth noting Mozgov got those numbers against Nurkic (18pts , 13reb, 1blk, 1ast, 6/15 FG%). |
Look at the FG Nurkic, his failed most of his shots at the rim. Mozgov is like beton wall at the rim
P.s. For all those complain about rebounds, it's completely different team and thats how they play. All players have equal number of rebounds
P.s.s. https://youtu.be/bzvUjzuIngY |
Simply put, what we see from Mozgov is what we all wanted from Hibbert last year.
So we upgraded the big man position. |
Yeah, I bet Mozgov fouling out didn't have anything to do with Nurkic. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | I think the main reason he was brought here was to play defense and protect the rim, and in those capacities, I think he will do quite well. 10-12 point a game, 6-8 boards, probably 1.5 blocks and playing 24-30 minutes a game, depending on the matchups. Yeah the contract was expensive and too long, but it was pretty much the going price and we had a 17 win season. Players aren't coming here chasing rings, and taking large salary cuts just to play in LA. |
It doesn't matter how critical the contract was. He is better for this Lakers team then Ezeli or Biyombo.
This isn't about overpaying for role players to come here, it's about getting what's out there in a cap that gives role players a chance at a contract increase. |
The contracts DO matter, and he's not better for this team than Biyombo. |
I was interested in Biyombo, and other center targets apart from Moz, but I can also see why they were worried about Biyombo on offense. Guy is a great defender but on offense, such a liability.
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lukewaltonsdad
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | davidse wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | I think the main reason he was brought here was to play defense and protect the rim, and in those capacities, I think he will do quite well. 10-12 point a game, 6-8 boards, probably 1.5 blocks and playing 24-30 minutes a game, depending on the matchups. Yeah the contract was expensive and too long, but it was pretty much the going price and we had a 17 win season. Players aren't coming here chasing rings, and taking large salary cuts just to play in LA. |
It doesn't matter how critical the contract was. He is better for this Lakers team then Ezeli or Biyombo.
This isn't about overpaying for role players to come here, it's about getting what's out there in a cap that gives role players a chance at a contract increase. |
The contracts DO matter, and he's not better for this team than Biyombo. |
I was interested in Biyombo, and other center targets apart from Moz, but I can also see why they were worried about Biyombo on offense. Guy is a great defender but on offense, such a liability. |
That he is, but he (Biyombo) is also a much better pick in roll defender on the perimeter. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | waterman40 wrote: | | I think the main reason he was brought here was to play defense and protect the rim, and in those capacities, I think he will do quite well. 10-12 point a game, 6-8 boards, probably 1.5 blocks and playing 24-30 minutes a game, depending on the matchups. Yeah the contract was expensive and too long, but it was pretty much the going price and we had a 17 win season. Players aren't coming here chasing rings, and taking large salary cuts just to play in LA. |
It doesn't matter how critical the contract was. He is better for this Lakers team then Ezeli or Biyombo.
This isn't about overpaying for role players to come here, it's about getting what's out there in a cap that gives role players a chance at a contract increase. |
The contracts DO matter, and he's not better for this team than Biyombo. |
Biyombo lacks the offense over Mozgov... defensively he might be better but Mozgov is a way better P and R bigman and can actually help the PGs more then other bigs like Ezeli and Biyombo can. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Will be interesting to see how much Biyombo plays in Orlando with Vucevic, Ibaka, and Gordon up front.
1. Whiteside
2. Horford
3. Biyombo
4. Noah
5. Mahinmi
6. Aldrich
7. Mozgov
8. Ezeli
Was probably around my summer wish list for a C. Will be interesting watching to see how those guys perform as a whole. Mahinmi is another guy that will have a major competition with Gortat up front.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | Will be interesting to see how much Biyombo plays in Orlando with Vucevic, Ibaka, and Gordon up front.
1. Whiteside
2. Horford
3. Biyombo
4. Noah
5. Mahinmi
6. Aldrich
7. Mozgov
8. Ezeli
Was probably around my summer wish list for a C. Will be interesting watching to see how those guys perform as a whole. Mahinmi is another guy that will have a major competition with Gortat up front. |
#1-2 a no brainer, but we also won 17 games. I can see why they passed up Noah due to injury (and b/c he basically already signed with the Knicks b/f the moratorium was over).
I can see why they passed on Biyombo for the reasons stated above.
Mahimni to me is about the same tier as Moz.
Aldrich probably didn't have enough of a track record as a non-reserve big man. And Ezeli, turns out we were right to avoid him.
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah Biyombo (who many here wanted over Whiteside), Mahinmi, Mozgov and Aldrich/Ezeli were the only realistic options.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Yeah Biyombo (who many here wanted over Whiteside), Mahinmi, Mozgov and Aldrich/Ezeli were the only realistic options. |
I do understand why Luke would consider Moz over Biyombo though. Let's just hope Moz works out for us until Zubac is ready to take his place.
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 1:17 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Will be interesting to see how much Biyombo plays in Orlando with Vucevic, Ibaka, and Gordon up front.
1. Whiteside
2. Horford
3. Biyombo
4. Noah
5. Mahinmi
6. Aldrich
7. Mozgov
8. Ezeli
Was probably around my summer wish list for a C. Will be interesting watching to see how those guys perform as a whole. Mahinmi is another guy that will have a major competition with Gortat up front. |
#1-2 a no brainer, but we also won 17 games. I can see why they passed up Noah due to injury (and b/c he basically already signed with the Knicks b/f the moratorium was over).
I can see why they passed on Biyombo for the reasons stated above.
Mahimni to me is about the same tier as Moz.
Aldrich probably didn't have enough of a track record as a non-reserve big man. And Ezeli, turns out we were right to avoid him. |
Lakers big man wish list was probably:
Whiteside
Horford
Mozgov
Ezeli
Mahinmi
Biyombo
And on and on, so rather fans think Lakers should have gotten Ezeli or Byiombo doesn't matter cause Mozgov was there main get after Horford and Whiteside. |
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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There's no comparison.
The gap between Biyombo and Mozgov defensively is far bigger than the gap offensively, not to mention the crucial aspect of how that defensive gap directly leads to Biyombo being able to play actual starters minutes and stay on the floor regardless of the opposing lineup.
Conservatively, I'd say you'd get 25% more minutes of your best center on the floor with Biyombo over Mozgov.
And then there's the age factor for a team that's going nowhere in the next couple of years, at least.
No comparison. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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My man it's a done deal. It is what it is. Just hope he does well on the Lakers.
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, but unlike others - the fact that it's a done deal does'nt impact my opinions or comparisons in this case.
I'm not going to whine about it, but if it is brought up - I'm going to give my unchanged opinion on the topic...
Doesn't mean I don't hope he proves to be better than Biyombo, Whiteside, and Horford combined - and not only that, but be able to do that 2-3 years from now when the team actually plays for something (hopefully)...
Yeah, good luck to all of us with that one. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:45 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | Sure, but unlike others - the fact that it's a done deal does'nt impact my opinions or comparisons in this case.
I'm not going to whine about it, but if it is brought up - I'm going to give my unchanged opinion on the topic...
Doesn't mean I don't hope he proves to be better than Biyombo, Whiteside, and Horford combined - and not only that, but be able to do that 2-3 years from now when the team actually plays for something (hopefully)...
Yeah, good luck to all of us with that one. |
And we respect your opinion on the matter.
It's right to see how it goes, like Omar Little displayed a few weeks ago, there is gonna be teams vying for his services if things don't work out here, |
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davidse
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | davidse wrote: | Sure, but unlike others - the fact that it's a done deal does'nt impact my opinions or comparisons in this case.
I'm not going to whine about it, but if it is brought up - I'm going to give my unchanged opinion on the topic...
Doesn't mean I don't hope he proves to be better than Biyombo, Whiteside, and Horford combined - and not only that, but be able to do that 2-3 years from now when the team actually plays for something (hopefully)...
Yeah, good luck to all of us with that one. |
And we respect your opinion on the matter.
It's right to see how it goes, like Omar Little displayed a few weeks ago, there is gonna be teams vying for his services if things don't work out here, |
I am far less convinced than Omar on teams vying for Mozgov's services with that deal, but let's be clear about something -
I'm not predicting things don't "work out". I think he's a capable player and should be a pretty nice fit for the next 2 meaningless years, but ironcially, that would probably lead to us keeping him until he does become a hindrence (is that a word ?) from a cap point of view and no teams wanting any part of him for that money on an older slower body.
Hopefully we'll have the amnesty to use on him if we need to, but I have a hunch that 2-3 years down the road with all the youth growth - we could be able to recruit two star free agents if we can unload both Deng and Mozgov's deals, but only one amnesty at our disposal.
You can call that nothing more than long term conjecture, but those are the years when stuff like that will actually matter in terms of contention. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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Good to see one person still on the same page as me davidse 
What I'm hoping for is Mozgov has his regular solid 9/6 year while Zubac also develops quickly and looks like a starting C for 2017. With a weak 2017 FA C market (Bogut, Zaza, Splitter the only UFA, there might be a chance to pick up an asset for Mozgov if he has a productive year. A year ago he went for 2 1st round picks. But I agree with what davidse said, if Mozgov does indeed play well, we will probably hold on to him until he declines and is unmoveable. I also agree we could be a very attractive destination in 2018 with 2 max slots open with no Deng/Mozgov on the books.
Honeslty, I don't think it will take long for Zubac, who already has all the skills, to get on a comparable (average) level as Mozgov.
_________________
"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | davidse wrote: | Sure, but unlike others - the fact that it's a done deal does'nt impact my opinions or comparisons in this case.
I'm not going to whine about it, but if it is brought up - I'm going to give my unchanged opinion on the topic...
Doesn't mean I don't hope he proves to be better than Biyombo, Whiteside, and Horford combined - and not only that, but be able to do that 2-3 years from now when the team actually plays for something (hopefully)...
Yeah, good luck to all of us with that one. |
And we respect your opinion on the matter.
It's right to see how it goes, like Omar Little displayed a few weeks ago, there is gonna be teams vying for his services if things don't work out here, |
I am far less convinced than Omar on teams vying for Mozgov's services with that deal, but let's be clear about something -
I'm not predicting things don't "work out". I think he's a capable player and should be a pretty nice fit for the next 2 meaningless years, but ironcially, that would probably lead to us keeping him until he does become a hindrence (is that a word ?) from a cap point of view and no teams wanting any part of him for that money on an older slower body.
Hopefully we'll have the amnesty to use on him if we need to, but I have a hunch that 2-3 years down the road with all the youth growth - we could be able to recruit two star free agents if we can unload both Deng and Mozgov's deals, but only one amnesty at our disposal.
You can call that nothing more than long term conjecture, but those are the years when stuff like that will actually matter in terms of contention. |
In a word, teams should have interest cause he displays modern type skills for a big man and that is what the NBA right now is made of, Today is a orientated guard league with only a big man who is capable of portecting the rim, and with the Lakers having 2 guards who should play in the modern NBA style we didn't need to go after Whiteside or Horford for the full max, even though they would have been major upgrades.
Now as far as Mozgov being on a meaningless team we have no idea what future trade and other transaction occur to Improve the team, for example don't you think Mozgov would make for a very solid back up C if Zubac is ready or another big man is acquired In a trade?
I completely understand where your coming from... but I'm willing to see this play out and rather the move fails flat on the Lakers faces, that's not my concern with the upcoming 2017 and 2018 FA. |
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