The boos for Jim Buss
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:14 am    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
tox wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


While the team shows a demonstrable upwards trajectory I have no problem with the front office. Right now, they are on a clear upwards swing with the second best young core in the NBA.

I would like for the team to get someone to bolster free agent recruiting pitches though. If Luke is not that guy (Mozgov and Deng stated he was, but obviously $$$ was just as big of a factor, if not bigger) then that is one front office change I want made.


We aren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise. I do like our young core and I do think it's the 2nd best young core in the league but that needs to start translating to wins.

How many more seasons do you give them until it's clear they aren't going to get us back to contendership?


We weren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise because we went from, at worst, a serviceable coach in D'Antoni to Byron Scott (the worst coach ever) who was brought along to babysit Kobe's last years. And then in 2015-2016 we had Kobe play more at a hugely negative pace (you can argue he was still an OK player in '14-'15, even acknowledging his inefficiencies), and we played more rookies. Scott took care of the rest to make us even worse.

Even if I criticized them for the last 2 years declining in wins, it's mostly due to their cardinal sin of hiring Byron. Since we've hired an actual coaching staff I can't even complain about that anymore, even if you don't buy that he was brought along to babysit Kobe.

If somehow the team won 13 games this season then sure I'd see your point, but that's less likely than the digits reversing and the team winning 31.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:31 am    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
tox wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


While the team shows a demonstrable upwards trajectory I have no problem with the front office. Right now, they are on a clear upwards swing with the second best young core in the NBA.

I would like for the team to get someone to bolster free agent recruiting pitches though. If Luke is not that guy (Mozgov and Deng stated he was, but obviously $$$ was just as big of a factor, if not bigger) then that is one front office change I want made.


We aren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise. I do like our young core and I do think it's the 2nd best young core in the league but that needs to start translating to wins.

How many more seasons do you give them until it's clear they aren't going to get us back to contendership?


This is the year where we need to see a fairly large jump in wins (the target should be +12-15). If we don't see it this year and there aren't injuries to blame, then we can start questioning the front office.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:40 am    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
tox wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


While the team shows a demonstrable upwards trajectory I have no problem with the front office. Right now, they are on a clear upwards swing with the second best young core in the NBA.

I would like for the team to get someone to bolster free agent recruiting pitches though. If Luke is not that guy (Mozgov and Deng stated he was, but obviously $$$ was just as big of a factor, if not bigger) then that is one front office change I want made.


We aren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise. I do like our young core and I do think it's the 2nd best young core in the league but that needs to start translating to wins.

How many more seasons do you give them until it's clear they aren't going to get us back to contendership?


Contendership was never going to happen with a post-achilles Kobe. He was done, bro. Mitch and Jim were put in a no-win scenario when that happened, but at least Alridge gave them two meetings before deciding it wasn't the best situation for him. That was the turning point and they had to orient everything, Byron hire included, towards his farewell. He deserved every bit of that contract because of what he did for LA.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject:

I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:10 pm    Post subject:

rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.
The thing is, it isn't the 76ers plan. All the top contending teams today (minus the Spurs) went through what we are going through the last 3 seasons.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Don't like the 76ers comparison. They didn't have anyone of Kobe's caliber retiring and Embiid wasn't expected to be out this long. You can kind of say they are cursed, though I wish them the best in the future.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


I gave Jerry West 6 seasons, so there is no reason to cut that short here. For you, how long until you move over to the Clippers?
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Last edited by venturalakersfan on Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:18 pm    Post subject:

rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from december itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.

The big question is can we (Jeanie) trust in him few more years or go in a new direction.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Losing droughts are a part of the natural cycle of sports. We won a championship in 2010, were in the playoffs in 2013 and have been on the downturn since.

However, you have to be impressed with how the Lakers have managed the losing seasons.

For one, they drafted well. That is not a given. The Sixers missed on MCW and may have missed on both Okafor and Embiid. The Lakers look to be stacked with young talent, D'Angelo, Ingram, Randle, Clarkson, Nance, and Zubac.

Also, the Lakers didn't leave these young players on an island. We invested in player development in a multitude of ways. We saw what the losses without guidance did to the young Sixers team. It was a toxic environment. Having a veteran presence in both 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 was very important to our young players' development. We can all agree that our veterans weren't good players, but all of our young bucks have spoken highly of the little things that our vets imparted on them. It can be as simple as teaching game-day routine, off-day routines, and eating habits. We can see all of our young players are extremely professional and hard-working. This isn't by accident and a credit to our front office for not having a team entirely of U-25 players. This is why the Sixers finally brought in Elton Brand this last season. Also, of course, it seems clear to me that the Lakers do a good job behind-the-scenes of developing players. Clarkson, a #46 pick, is a very good player in only 2 years and has rightfully earned what many call a 'steal of a contract' at 4 years/50 million. Nance, a #27 pick, had an excellent rookie season that many impartial observers have lauded.

I think we have to commend our front office for doing a good job of not keeping this team in mediocrity (and unable to draft high-potential players in Randle, D'Angelo, and Ingram), but also not blatantly tanking like the Sixers where there's this constant cloud of media berating over a "process" and a persistent crushing of morale. Did our young players suffer some low morale, partially due to losing and partially due to Byron? Yes, but I think a variety of factors, including the Kobe Farewell Tour diverting attention/criticism and the veteran presence, helped our young players be in the position where they are at today. It's a position that Lakers fans appear universally excited about. Let's let this cycle play out because we may currently be on the precipice of long-term success.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:
tox wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


While the team shows a demonstrable upwards trajectory I have no problem with the front office. Right now, they are on a clear upwards swing with the second best young core in the NBA.

I would like for the team to get someone to bolster free agent recruiting pitches though. If Luke is not that guy (Mozgov and Deng stated he was, but obviously $$$ was just as big of a factor, if not bigger) then that is one front office change I want made.


We aren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise. I do like our young core and I do think it's the 2nd best young core in the league but that needs to start translating to wins.



Well you don't get many wins in the summer when no games are being played.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:25 pm    Post subject:

rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Would you rather follow the Mavs formula? Winning 40 some games every year and going out in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah! You need star players, and star FAs don't go to teams that don't compete. If you read the current CBA, the best way to get there is to have an infusion of young talent. We have done very well in obtaining that, now, as many have posted, it is time to see it pay off with more wins.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:28 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
tox wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


While the team shows a demonstrable upwards trajectory I have no problem with the front office. Right now, they are on a clear upwards swing with the second best young core in the NBA.

I would like for the team to get someone to bolster free agent recruiting pitches though. If Luke is not that guy (Mozgov and Deng stated he was, but obviously $$$ was just as big of a factor, if not bigger) then that is one front office change I want made.


We aren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise. I do like our young core and I do think it's the 2nd best young core in the league but that needs to start translating to wins.



Well you don't get many wins in the summer when no games are being played.


But the good news is, we're undefeated!!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject:

Gimme_the_rock wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
tox wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
To the Jim and Mitch defenders: How much longer are you guys willing to accept the team being bad and not contenders before you want a change in FO? Or are you guys willing to stick with Jim and Mitch forever?


While the team shows a demonstrable upwards trajectory I have no problem with the front office. Right now, they are on a clear upwards swing with the second best young core in the NBA.

I would like for the team to get someone to bolster free agent recruiting pitches though. If Luke is not that guy (Mozgov and Deng stated he was, but obviously $$$ was just as big of a factor, if not bigger) then that is one front office change I want made.


We aren't on a clear upward trajectory wins wise. I do like our young core and I do think it's the 2nd best young core in the league but that needs to start translating to wins.



Well you don't get many wins in the summer when no games are being played.


But the good news is, we're undefeated!!!!



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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Would you rather follow the Mavs formula? Winning 40 some games every year and going out in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah! You need star players, and star FAs don't go to teams that don't compete. If you read the current CBA, the best way to get there is to have an infusion of young talent. We have done very well in obtaining that, now, as many have posted, it is time to see it pay off with more wins.


OK. If someone would have told me few years back this was our plan to suck really really bad to attract the top draft talent, I would have been greatly pleased. But from what I see (I don't have real hard facts), we are just taking positives out of an ill-planned seasons. We tried to attract big FAs and failed last few seasons.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:30 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Would you rather follow the Mavs formula? Winning 40 some games every year and going out in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah! You need star players, and star FAs don't go to teams that don't compete. If you read the current CBA, the best way to get there is to have an infusion of young talent. We have done very well in obtaining that, now, as many have posted, it is time to see it pay off with more wins.


I still agree with your original posts in other threads. Jim Buss helped lead us to titles when he was getting coffee for Mitch and Jerry before 2013. You know, when he was able to make it to the office. Jim is phenomenal in that role.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Would you rather follow the Mavs formula? Winning 40 some games every year and going out in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah! You need star players, and star FAs don't go to teams that don't compete. If you read the current CBA, the best way to get there is to have an infusion of young talent. We have done very well in obtaining that, now, as many have posted, it is time to see it pay off with more wins.


I still agree with your original posts in other threads. Jim Buss helped lead us to titles when he was getting coffee for Mitch and Jerry before 2013. You know, when he was able to make it to the office. Jim is phenomenal in that role.


This is inaccurate. Jim began his current role in 2005 when Dr. Buss took a huge step back.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject:

You look at something that isn't perfect and consider it ill-planned. The plans were solid, but you can't plan on injuries. No one planned on Nash breaking a leg in his second game. No one planned on Howard taking so long to heal. No one planned on Randle breaking a leg, or Kobe tearing his Achilles. But those things happened and when they do, you have to adjust your plan. When all we had was Kobe and he went down, we weren't winning many more games. So getting the best draft pick possible was the best option. And adding vets on one year contracts while shooting for a top FA was a good plan, we didn't end up capped out for mediocre players with no chance to re-group. And when those plans didn't work, the alternative was to get the best draft pick possible. Napoleon had a great plan at Waterloo, it didn't work out. It happens. Only he didn't have a backup plan, we did.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
You look at something that isn't perfect and consider it ill-planned. The plans were solid, but you can't plan on injuries. No one planned on Nash breaking a leg in his second game. No one planned on Howard taking so long to heal. No one planned on Randle breaking a leg, or Kobe tearing his Achilles. But those things happened and when they do, you have to adjust your plan. When all we had was Kobe and he went down, we weren't winning many more games. So getting the best draft pick possible was the best option. And adding vets on one year contracts while shooting for a top FA was a good plan, we didn't end up capped out for mediocre players with no chance to re-group. And when those plans didn't work, the alternative was to get the best draft pick possible. Napoleon had a great plan at Waterloo, it didn't work out. It happens. Only he didn't have a backup plan, we did.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject:

rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Quote:
I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula.



Follow?

They had similar positions in the draft order over the past several years, so probably more in synch with each other rather than the Lakers potentially following Philadelphia.

2014
#3 Philadelphia
#7 Lakers

2015
#2 Lakers
#3 Philadelphia

2016
#1 Philadelphia
#2 Lakers
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:00 pm    Post subject:

ArminNBA wrote:
rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from december itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.

The big question is can we (Jeanie) trust in him few more years or go in a new direction.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Losing droughts are a part of the natural cycle of sports. We won a championship in 2010, were in the playoffs in 2013 and have been on the downturn since.

However, you have to be impressed with how the Lakers have managed the losing seasons.

For one, they drafted well. That is not a given. The Sixers missed on MCW and may have missed on both Okafor and Embiid. The Lakers look to be stacked with young talent, D'Angelo, Ingram, Randle, Clarkson, Nance, and Zubac.

Also, the Lakers didn't leave these young players on an island. We invested in player development in a multitude of ways. We saw what the losses without guidance did to the young Sixers team. It was a toxic environment. Having a veteran presence in both 2014-2015 and 2015-2016 was very important to our young players' development. We can all agree that our veterans weren't good players, but all of our young bucks have spoken highly of the little things that our vets imparted on them. It can be as simple as teaching game-day routine, off-day routines, and eating habits. We can see all of our young players are extremely professional and hard-working. This isn't by accident and a credit to our front office for not having a team entirely of U-25 players. This is why the Sixers finally brought in Elton Brand this last season. Also, of course, it seems clear to me that the Lakers do a good job behind-the-scenes of developing players. Clarkson, a #46 pick, is a very good player in only 2 years and has rightfully earned what many call a 'steal of a contract' at 4 years/50 million. Nance, a #27 pick, had an excellent rookie season that many impartial observers have lauded.

I think we have to commend our front office for doing a good job of not keeping this team in mediocrity (and unable to draft high-potential players in Randle, D'Angelo, and Ingram), but also not blatantly tanking like the Sixers where there's this constant cloud of media berating over a "process" and a persistent crushing of morale. Did our young players suffer some low morale, partially due to losing and partially due to Byron? Yes, but I think a variety of factors, including the Kobe Farewell Tour diverting attention/criticism and the veteran presence, helped our young players be in the position where they are at today. It's a position that Lakers fans appear universally excited about. Let's let this cycle play out because we may currently be on the precipice of long-term success.
Great post Armin.

Just to add, if there is some sort of management change in the future, I predict whoever it may be will reap the rewards of what the present FO has been able to do and build something special from that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 1:08 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
You look at something that isn't perfect and consider it ill-planned. The plans were solid, but you can't plan on injuries. No one planned on Nash breaking a leg in his second game. No one planned on Howard taking so long to heal. No one planned on Randle breaking a leg, or Kobe tearing his Achilles. But those things happened and when they do, you have to adjust your plan. When all we had was Kobe and he went down, we weren't winning many more games. So getting the best draft pick possible was the best option. And adding vets on one year contracts while shooting for a top FA was a good plan, we didn't end up capped out for mediocre players with no chance to re-group. And when those plans didn't work, the alternative was to get the best draft pick possible. Napoleon had a great plan at Waterloo, it didn't work out. It happens. Only he didn't have a backup plan, we did.
Man I was at that game. Made the 5 hour drive from Vancouver to Portland. I was bummed. I was so excited for that season. Thought we had a great chance of winning it all.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:05 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Would you rather follow the Mavs formula? Winning 40 some games every year and going out in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah! You need star players, and star FAs don't go to teams that don't compete. If you read the current CBA, the best way to get there is to have an infusion of young talent. We have done very well in obtaining that, now, as many have posted, it is time to see it pay off with more wins.


I still agree with your original posts in other threads. Jim Buss helped lead us to titles when he was getting coffee for Mitch and Jerry before 2013. You know, when he was able to make it to the office. Jim is phenomenal in that role.


This is a great example of why I don't have a lot of respect for most of the negative takes on Jim.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject:

rak617 wrote:
I read here and there where the articles/posters give credit to Jim for recent lottery picks. Even on TWC Lakers network.
I don't understand how we can credit last three lottery picks to Jim. Lottery picks are what the NBA rewarded us for FO's incompetence. Anyone can achieve that. We don't need Jim only to do that job.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy with the 3 lottery picks in the last 3 consecutive drafts.....but come on. I don't want Lakers to follow 76ers success formula. I don't want to see threads here from December itself discussing who the best player in college is. Enough!

So far I did not see anything that our leader did to make me think he is The right man for this job.
I don't see a definite plan. At least I did not figure out what it is in the last 3-4 years looking at this team. Every year there is a new reason why we can't make it to playoffs.
There might be tons of valid great reasons for our failures but, for an average fan, it is quite frustrating. No one is going to do thesis to understand the minds of Jim or the events leading up to this. For God sake's find a way to win and make it to playoffs. 5 years is enough to suck this bad. We can't be anymore bottom feeders.

After saying all these, I am happy with Dlo's development, Ingram's selection, and Luke's hiring. At least the games will be watchable this season.


Welcome to 2016. Lottery picks are how you build in an environment where star players want to go to winning situations, and you have 40% of the cap being wasted on a post-Achilles tear former superstar.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 5:57 am    Post subject:

Jim was in charge of basketball operations so he get the blame when things go in the crapper and they sure did. It is really hard to tell how much credit or blame that Mitch gets.

Coaching Choices: Bring back Phil would have been a smart thing to do but they made bad coaching decisions and implemented a system that almost certainly drove Howard out of town. Phil was proven and could have been an asset in bring in Free Agents. This seems like a Jim Buss type of decision and it really hurt the team.

Putting together a team based on Nash, Howard and Kobe for a last hurrah versus not rebuilding the team.

The Nash trade was a disaster. It seemed clear he was breaking down already and we gave away 2 1st rounders. Not sure if Mitch or Jim made this decision but I am sure that Jim was at least part of the strategy to put together a aging veterans for a title shot.

Howard Acquisition: Talk about miscalculation on the part of management. The trade itself was okay but we should have been doing everything possible to keep him versus putting in a coach who would run a system that did not suite the players on the team. The way this situation was handles was pure arrogance and Jim is the arrogant one.

Kobe Contract. When the Lakers decided to go for broke with an aging Kobe and Nash and it did not work out they saddled the team with a huge contract and a player that pretty much over the hill.

Jim Buss is not the gambler that Jerry was. Jerry knew when to fold'em and Jim didn't it put all his chips in and lost big time. I give him most of the credit for the disaster of the last few years. He as earned the boos and deserves everyone of them.

Hiring Byron Scott, Mike D and Brown: Gosh I don't know if this is Jim or Mitch but what a bunch of big misses. Byron was just he wrong guy for a team that should have been rebuilding. He could not relate to the young player. There as total confusion and overall it was a terrible environment. Mitch may have been part of the problem but Jim was involved and he gets the blame here too.

Who gets credit for the rosy outlook we have now.

Give credit and all the Glory to God for we have been blessed with the way the Lotto balls have fallen in our favor.

Decision to finally rebuild: Did we have a choice? We couldn't sign anyone and our trade assets were virtually nil expect for our core youth where it would be impossible to get fair value.

Really Good drafting: To me this is Mitch and his scouts. I think they have done an outstanding job with the picks we have. While the jury is still out on AB we must remember he was a 2nd rounder and still has a chance. Nance, Zubac and Clarkson were A+++ picks and tremendous value. Most GM's would he thrilled to hit on one of those during a 3 year period and we hit on 3 in a row.

Getting Luke: Finally a good match. He is a positive guy who has had great mentors and even has some good experience. He is focused on the right things and people will give him a break because he has shown us a vision of where he wants to go and we know it will take time and that there will be a few bumps in the road. I don't know who gets the credit but I will give this one to Jim. I guess a blind squirrel really can find an acorn once in a while.

Free Agents Mozgov and Deng. This is probably Jim and Mitch and this is probably the best they could do and while the contracts are huge that is what the market bears. We need a couple of veterans and we really needed a center. Good locker room guys and at least we have cap room for a Max player for next year when their is a great crop of players becoming available. The Calderon move was a nice was to pick up a few 2nd rounders.

So does Jim deserve the boo's you bet he does. The Lord chooses who he is going to bless and we have been blessed and we should all give thanks for where we are now. `

I pray and hope that we can stay the course of this rebuilding process. The fans are now expecting a multi year process and we have the talent it just needs to be developed but it will take some time.

The number one priority is developing our talent and teaching them to win in an offensive and defensive system that is free flowing on offense with multi positional players putting pressure and blocking shots on defense.

Our focus should be on getting Russell, Clarkson and Randle to become good defensive players. They all have the size, quickness and speed to become really good defensive players. All of the should be able to rebound at a high level for their position and they have size to over multiple positions. If Luke can coach these 3 up we can become a great defensive team. Nance, BI, Zubac all look like they can be ++ defensive players and Deng is ++ and Mozgov is at least a +. AB is probably a ++ but he has to shoot better to get on the court.

I know we are all focused on Randle outside shot but he is quick enough to be a great defensive player enough though he doesn't have long arms. Clarkson too has great size and quickness and should be able to guard the 1-3 spots. We should develop him to cover the quicker point guards. DLO may be missing a bit on the quickness but he sees the court so well and he has great size.

Anyway I really think we if we can get those 3 guys to be decent defensive players we have a chance to be outstanding on defensive.

Almost every player we put out there should is good at rebounding for their position except for Lou. I don't think we have to go to far to be a really good rebounding team as we have good size at every position and our guys are actually pretty proven in this area for how young they are.

On offense I we really need development but we have talent. Outside shooting should really be improved with Russel and Clarkson taking big leaps in this area. BI will add a lot and Lou and Calderon are all ready proven in this area. Even Deng is okay here. DLO and BI have the potential to develop into great outside shooters. We should be much better here and on a path to keep growing in this area making going from good to great.

Mid range game: Deng is pretty good here and this is where we really need for Nance and Randle to develop. If they can get this part of their games going it will really open the floor up and give us a lot more options in executing the offense Luke is going to run. Yes it would be great if they were good out to the 3 point line but if they can become consistent on the 15-18' area our offense should be able to rock. Zubac even showed some skill in this area.

Post game: Deng, Mosgov, Zubac, BI, Randle, DLO and even Clarkson all bring something to the table. We should be able to take advantage of the mismatches that get created with Luke's offense.

To me the keys for Luke are developing Randle, Clarkson and DLO as defensive players and developing the mid range game for Nance and Randle. If we do those things I think we have a great chance to be a good team that can grow into a really really good team on offense and defense. A real bonus would be if Zubac can become ready to be a rotational player this year and if they can help AB find his 3 pt shot.

So we have a great outlook, great talent and great coaching that is full of potential. I will give Jim Buss so of the credit.

Lets hope we play well enough to attract a max player who is an all star next year and out guys develop really well. If we do all those things maybe we can cheer for Jim Buss. Right now I am in the don't screw it up Jim mindset because I think that there is the potential to really build something special and long term with what we have now.

So it's time to forgive Jim Buss for the sins of the past and pray for a time when we can actually cheer him as we did his dad.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:10 am    Post subject:

Interesting how many "old" Laker fans remember the past with such a jaded memory. They act like everything was perfect under Dr. Buss when in reality it wasn't, things were up and down, as they have been in the past decade.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:24 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Interesting how many "old" Laker fans remember the past with such a jaded memory. They act like everything was perfect under Dr. Buss when in reality it wasn't, things were up and down, as they have been in the past decade.


Perfect no but very successful. You had the Magic and Kareem Era with stars like Wilkes, Nixon, Worthy, Scott and Cooper and then you had the Shaq and Kobe and then Shaq and Gasol. Those were all under Dr. Buss and they were great times. He also got some great coaches in Riley and Jackson. During the time he was alive and owning the Lakers they were the most successful franchise in all of sports.

Were things perfect no but they were darn good. I wish the Dodgers and Rams could have the same level of success.
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