I think it's between Malone and Garnett, and I honestly can't decide between the two.
There was a time Malone was thought to be the best PF of all time. Duncan has that honor now. Would that mean KG is in the talk for 2nd greatest PF of all time?
I think it's between Malone and Garnett, and I honestly can't decide between the two.
There was a time Malone was thought to be the best PF of all time. Duncan has that honor now. Would that mean KG is in the talk for 2nd greatest PF of all time?
I don't consider Duncan a PF, but he's definitely the best of those 3.
About your question though, it's really hard to say. Malone was a no. 1 option on a team that was good enough to win a championship. Garnett was pretty much better or equal to him at everything except go-to scoring on a championship level. I think I lean towards Garnett now that I think about it more.
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22856 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 2:10 am Post subject: Re: top 5 nba players drafted since 1985
nomoreshaq wrote:
shaq
kobe
duncan
lebron
???
The 4 you got is absolutely correct, and to complete your puzzle, he was drafted #1 in 87, didn't debut in 1990... David Robinson. I would put him right up there at the top 5. I think he edges out Karl Malone. He effects the game much more than Malone and he completely turnaround the Spurs in 90. Given a choice of Malone or Robinson, I think most GM's will build a team around Robinson.
But Wade is the 3rd best SG of all time and is right up there. If you want top 5 that can actually be a starting 5 on the court, then go with Wade.
I don't think Curry has accomplished enough, at this point, to be in that conversation. Malone, Pippen, Iverson, Robinson, and Payton deserve consideration. All things considered, I think I'd go with The Admiral.
But what we have established here is that there have been only four true all-time greats drafted since 1985. None of these other guys are really in the all-time great conversation -- they're sort of on the periphery. Around 2000, Malone would have rated a lot higher, but the rise of Duncan and KG has taken away a lot of his luster.
He was a sensational player, mon. Irie. However, he was one of the greatest all time #2s. I couldn't in good faith put him up against a guy who had to carry a franchise for the bulk of his prime years. In the years he was charged with that task, he was emotionally overwrought. His 94 season which people point to, he was like Derrick Coleman attitude wise. It's a testament to how diversely talented he was that 1.8 wasn't held against him for the rest of his career, because it sure as HELL would have if Kobe had done that. Even before that, he was bichting about Kukoc's contract all season because he signed a dumb long term deal in 92 and was locked in during the 96 gravy train.
I will say this tho. And this comes from someone who has a generally bitter take on his personality and you can see that he's a hobby horse of mine (meaning a subject to rant about). I think he was a punk and a wuss until Mike showed him how to be tough, so I'm not what you'd call a Pippen jocker by any means, but it's a crying shame he never won a DPOY. Mutombo and bigs kept getting them. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and his natural body structure and physique made him almost born to play basketball defense. Only thing he couldn't do like a superstar was be trusted in the clutch. He hit those shots occasionally, but most were with Mikey right behind him and he and Ho threw that 93 Finals Gm 6 ball that Mike brought up court like a hot potato to Paxson, which Mike later mentioned and derisively laughed at. Pippen wanted that ball in 94 vs NY after he did that a year earlier. I don't blame Phil for picking Toni K even if the shot woulda missed. Phil chose right as he usually did. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL SEDALE TRIBUTE EDDIE DONX!
He was a sensational player, mon. Irie. However, he was one of the greatest all time #2s. I couldn't in good faith put him up against a guy who had to carry a franchise for the bulk of his prime years. In the years he was charged with that task, he was emotionally overwrought. His 94 season which people point to, he was like Derrick Coleman attitude wise. It's a testament to how diversely talented he was that 1.8 wasn't held against him for the rest of his career, because it sure as HELL would have if Kobe had done that. Even before that, he was bichting about Kukoc's contract all season because he signed a dumb long term deal in 92 and was locked in during the 96 gravy train.
I will say this tho. And this comes from someone who has a generally bitter take on his personality and you can see that he's a hobby horse of mine (meaning a subject to rant about). I think he was a punk and a wuss until Mike showed him how to be tough, so I'm not what you'd call a Pippen jocker by any means, but it's a crying shame he never won a DPOY. Mutombo and bigs kept getting them. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and his natural body structure and physique made him almost born to play basketball defense. Only thing he couldn't do like a superstar was be trusted in the clutch. He hit those shots occasionally, but most were with Mikey right behind him and he and Ho threw that 93 Finals Gm 6 ball that Mike brought up court like a hot potato to Paxson, which Mike later mentioned and derisively laughed at. Pippen wanted that ball in 94 vs NY after he did that a year earlier. I don't blame Phil for picking Toni K even if the shot woulda missed. Phil chose right as he usually did.
Boy, at the risk of trolling the boards here...I'd like to hear your analysis of pippen vs lebron. Everything you said is one point (as usual). But that's always an interesting comparison here. LG thinks I made that up to troll everyone, but I honestly don't see how lebron is that much better than pippen. lebron is stronger, pippen is taller/longer. that's a wash to me. pippen was one of the best defenders I've ever seen. People forget that he basically shut down the laker offense with his crazy roaming defense in that 2000 series (which I complained at the time was illegal because zone wasn't allowed yet, BUT it was amazing to see someone do that to a team with a prime Shaq that was pretty much steamrolling everyone else).
So skill wise, I give the advantage to pippen, and in my mind it's not that close. He's just way better all around.
SO let's focus on this attitude you mentioned, being a punk and a wuss. This is very true. But lebron has also had this problem, and it's actually one of the few criticisms in his overly praised portfolio. For a long time, he has shied away from clutch moments, and he still does, people just stop pointing it out. He's not clutch, he always makes the safe pass so that (in my mind) if his teammate misses, he doesn't get the blame. hence, for a goat player, he has very few clutch moments, and often his teammates have to deliver those moments instead. and it's not accidental, like the bounce to horry...it's his own decisions doing that. He's also a wuss in that he will never really risk his stats even for the benefit of the team. Last year in the finals was a rare glimpse of him shooting a bad percentage because his main guys were injured and there was no choice....he actually was forced to shoot all those shots, and he missed a lot, and people said he should be given the mvp in the losing battle because he was trying so hard. ugh. 15 years earlier, if pippen had done that, there would be no such talk. it would be what we heard, that pippen was weak mentally, etc. and that's what i see in lebron.
so that trusted in the clutch...i wouldn't trust lebron in the clutch if it didn't involve trying to get free throws. I would trust him to pass the ball to the clutch guy, that's about it. And that's not clutch, no matter how you spin it. pippen is basically the same, not to be trusted. But I'd still prefer pippen because of his superior shooting.
He was a sensational player, mon. Irie. However, he was one of the greatest all time #2s. I couldn't in good faith put him up against a guy who had to carry a franchise for the bulk of his prime years. In the years he was charged with that task, he was emotionally overwrought. His 94 season which people point to, he was like Derrick Coleman attitude wise. It's a testament to how diversely talented he was that 1.8 wasn't held against him for the rest of his career, because it sure as HELL would have if Kobe had done that. Even before that, he was bichting about Kukoc's contract all season because he signed a dumb long term deal in 92 and was locked in during the 96 gravy train.
I will say this tho. And this comes from someone who has a generally bitter take on his personality and you can see that he's a hobby horse of mine (meaning a subject to rant about). I think he was a punk and a wuss until Mike showed him how to be tough, so I'm not what you'd call a Pippen jocker by any means, but it's a crying shame he never won a DPOY. Mutombo and bigs kept getting them. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and his natural body structure and physique made him almost born to play basketball defense. Only thing he couldn't do like a superstar was be trusted in the clutch. He hit those shots occasionally, but most were with Mikey right behind him and he and Ho threw that 93 Finals Gm 6 ball that Mike brought up court like a hot potato to Paxson, which Mike later mentioned and derisively laughed at. Pippen wanted that ball in 94 vs NY after he did that a year earlier. I don't blame Phil for picking Toni K even if the shot woulda missed. Phil chose right as he usually did.
Boy, at the risk of trolling the boards here...I'd like to hear your analysis of pippen vs lebron. Everything you said is one point (as usual). But that's always an interesting comparison here. LG thinks I made that up to troll everyone, but I honestly don't see how lebron is that much better than pippen. lebron is stronger, pippen is taller/longer. that's a wash to me. pippen was one of the best defenders I've ever seen. People forget that he basically shut down the laker offense with his crazy roaming defense in that 2000 series (which I complained at the time was illegal because zone wasn't allowed yet, BUT it was amazing to see someone do that to a team with a prime Shaq that was pretty much steamrolling everyone else).
So skill wise, I give the advantage to pippen, and in my mind it's not that close. He's just way better all around.
SO let's focus on this attitude you mentioned, being a punk and a wuss. This is very true. But lebron has also had this problem, and it's actually one of the few criticisms in his overly praised portfolio. For a long time, he has shied away from clutch moments, and he still does, people just stop pointing it out. He's not clutch, he always makes the safe pass so that (in my mind) if his teammate misses, he doesn't get the blame. hence, for a goat player, he has very few clutch moments, and often his teammates have to deliver those moments instead. and it's not accidental, like the bounce to horry...it's his own decisions doing that. He's also a wuss in that he will never really risk his stats even for the benefit of the team. Last year in the finals was a rare glimpse of him shooting a bad percentage because his main guys were injured and there was no choice....he actually was forced to shoot all those shots, and he missed a lot, and people said he should be given the mvp in the losing battle because he was trying so hard. ugh. 15 years earlier, if pippen had done that, there would be no such talk. it would be what we heard, that pippen was weak mentally, etc. and that's what i see in lebron.
so that trusted in the clutch...i wouldn't trust lebron in the clutch if it didn't involve trying to get free throws. I would trust him to pass the ball to the clutch guy, that's about it. And that's not clutch, no matter how you spin it. pippen is basically the same, not to be trusted. But I'd still prefer pippen because of his superior shooting.
Joined: 20 Apr 2006 Posts: 15294 Location: Southern California
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 2:11 am Post subject:
Fan0Bynum17 wrote:
I think it's between Malone and Garnett, and I honestly can't decide between the two.
Probably Malone. The younger group forget or didn't see how great this guy really was in his prime. I mean the best PF to fill the lane, great rebounder and great in the half court sets/pick and roll-pop.
Malone was really good. Just ran into that man like many of the greats have.
He was a sensational player, mon. Irie. However, he was one of the greatest all time #2s. I couldn't in good faith put him up against a guy who had to carry a franchise for the bulk of his prime years. In the years he was charged with that task, he was emotionally overwrought. His 94 season which people point to, he was like Derrick Coleman attitude wise. It's a testament to how diversely talented he was that 1.8 wasn't held against him for the rest of his career, because it sure as HELL would have if Kobe had done that. Even before that, he was bichting about Kukoc's contract all season because he signed a dumb long term deal in 92 and was locked in during the 96 gravy train.
I will say this tho. And this comes from someone who has a generally bitter take on his personality and you can see that he's a hobby horse of mine (meaning a subject to rant about). I think he was a punk and a wuss until Mike showed him how to be tough, so I'm not what you'd call a Pippen jocker by any means, but it's a crying shame he never won a DPOY. Mutombo and bigs kept getting them. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and his natural body structure and physique made him almost born to play basketball defense. Only thing he couldn't do like a superstar was be trusted in the clutch. He hit those shots occasionally, but most were with Mikey right behind him and he and Ho threw that 93 Finals Gm 6 ball that Mike brought up court like a hot potato to Paxson, which Mike later mentioned and derisively laughed at. Pippen wanted that ball in 94 vs NY after he did that a year earlier. I don't blame Phil for picking Toni K even if the shot woulda missed. Phil chose right as he usually did.
Chips change our perception. Pre-2008 I bet most non-Laker fans would've viewed Kobe in the same way as Pippen. Someone who won with a better player, but couldn't win their own. If Shaq had stayed in '04 and won multiple titles then people would continue to view Kobe the way they view Pippen.
He was a sensational player, mon. Irie. However, he was one of the greatest all time #2s. I couldn't in good faith put him up against a guy who had to carry a franchise for the bulk of his prime years. In the years he was charged with that task, he was emotionally overwrought. His 94 season which people point to, he was like Derrick Coleman attitude wise. It's a testament to how diversely talented he was that 1.8 wasn't held against him for the rest of his career, because it sure as HELL would have if Kobe had done that. Even before that, he was bichting about Kukoc's contract all season because he signed a dumb long term deal in 92 and was locked in during the 96 gravy train.
I will say this tho. And this comes from someone who has a generally bitter take on his personality and you can see that he's a hobby horse of mine (meaning a subject to rant about). I think he was a punk and a wuss until Mike showed him how to be tough, so I'm not what you'd call a Pippen jocker by any means, but it's a crying shame he never won a DPOY. Mutombo and bigs kept getting them. Pippen was a better defender than Jordan and his natural body structure and physique made him almost born to play basketball defense. Only thing he couldn't do like a superstar was be trusted in the clutch. He hit those shots occasionally, but most were with Mikey right behind him and he and Ho threw that 93 Finals Gm 6 ball that Mike brought up court like a hot potato to Paxson, which Mike later mentioned and derisively laughed at. Pippen wanted that ball in 94 vs NY after he did that a year earlier. I don't blame Phil for picking Toni K even if the shot woulda missed. Phil chose right as he usually did.
Chips change our perception. Pre-2008 I bet most non-Laker fans would've viewed Kobe in the same way as Pippen. Someone who won with a better player, but couldn't win their own. If Shaq had stayed in '04 and won multiple titles then people would continue to view Kobe the way they view Pippen.
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