Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6284 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:12 pm Post subject: NBA announces changes to "hack-a-Shaq" rules
The rules have been slightly tweaked to discourage fouling poor free throw shooters off the ball. The current rule had been in the last 2 minutes of a half, intentional fouls were 1 shot plus the ball back, so teams got in their hack-a-Jordan before the 2 minute mark of each half.
There is 2 tweaks from what I read: 1. Now the 2 minute rule applies to each of the 4 quarters, not just the end of the half's. 2. The second tweak is making it more automatic to call intentional fouls as flagrant fouls for excessive contact, which includes jumping on the back of a player. I hadn't seen that particular piggy-back foul, but I guess it has happened.
Now, I'm a big proponent of NBA players should be able to make 70% of their free throws. But I know the league finds bad free throw shooters taking 15-25 free throws, making the game much less interesting for the fans.
What I would have liked to seen happen is have intentional off-the-ball fouls called as technical fouls. Meaning scrubs could only commit 2 such fouls before being disqualified, pay the technical foul fines (I think they are $1000) and face suspension if their technical reach 15 in a season. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Adam Silver also disclosed the Association's concern with the parity imbalance caused by Durant's free agent decision. With the tide moving so soon against the new-look Warriors, I'd say the core in the Bay (KD, Steph, Draymond, Klay and Iguodala) will manage to stay together for three seasons, max., and more likely two or less ...
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6284 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:28 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why reward people for being bad at free throws?
I know, I agree, bad free throwers shouldn't be in the league or should be paid less money. I'd like to see free throw percentage be a requirement for leaving college early. If you can't shoot 70% stay in school or D-league until you can.
The NBA's stance I believe is that making someone like Jordan or Howard shoot 20 extra free throws, slowing the game down, makes for a much less exciting product, both in person and especially on TV. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 20510 Location: UCLA -> NY
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:27 pm Post subject:
waterman40 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why reward people for being bad at free throws?
I know, I agree, bad free throwers shouldn't be in the league or should be paid less money. I'd like to see free throw percentage be a requirement for leaving college early. If you can't shoot 70% stay in school or D-league until you can.
The NBA's stance I believe is that making someone like Jordan or Howard shoot 20 extra free throws, slowing the game down, makes for a much less exciting product, both in person and especially on TV.
Adam Silver also disclosed the Association's concern with the parity imbalance caused by Durant's free agent decision. With the tide moving so soon against the new-look Warriors, I'd say the core in the Bay (KD, Steph, Draymond, Klay and Iguodala) will manage to stay together for three seasons, max., and more likely two or less ...
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6284 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:58 pm Post subject:
The league seems to hate it when the West is the better conference, they didn't care about "the decision" when 3 East coast players got together in Miami, but when another West player joins the stacked Warriors, then the rumbles begin.... _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Adam Silver also disclosed the Association's concern with the parity imbalance caused by Durant's free agent decision. With the tide moving so soon against the new-look Warriors, I'd say the core in the Bay (KD, Steph, Draymond, Klay and Iguodala) will manage to stay together for three seasons, max., and more likely two or less ...
Hmm if only this was a concern for the NBA when LeBron, Wade and Bosh colluded to come together in one team....
I guess Adam Silver views it differently ... on the one hand, two first team ALL NBA players joined one another in 2010 (with one, Wade, about to pitch pretty considerably into the abyss) ... one of these players was the 2x reigning R/S MVP, while the other player finished #5 in R/S MVP voting (Bosh was tied for #12) during the most recently competed season. On the other hand, one first team ALL NBA player (also, the 2x reigning [and first unanimous] R/S MVP), two second team ALL NBA players (#5 and #7 in the R/S MVP vote; the latter was also DPOY runner-up the past two years), and one third team ALL NBA player, along with a guy perennially on the cusp of the ALL DEFENSIVE teams (also, the runner-up for 6th Man of the Year) have now joined forces ...
The team record issue probably also affects the optics here ... Miami was 47 - 35 and couldn't even win two payoff games the year before the Heatles assembled in South Beach. Golden State was 73 - 9 last year and stumbled only minutes away from back-to-back titles ...
Bottom line, I don't think the imbalance created in 2010 is quite as obvious as the imbalance created in 2016 ...
Eh. I would have preferred to see 3 to make 2 for intentional off the ball fouls. It would have changed the risk-reward equation to discourage the tactic, and it would have avoided artificial rules like the two minute limit.
As for the imbalance, let's see how this Warriors team actually performs before we draw conclusions. I am not convinced that the Warriors actually upgraded, all things considered.
Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 29999 Location: Likely nowhere near you
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:47 am Post subject:
rwongega wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why reward people for being bad at free throws?
I know, I agree, bad free throwers shouldn't be in the league or should be paid less money. I'd like to see free throw percentage be a requirement for leaving college early. If you can't shoot 70% stay in school or D-league until you can.
The NBA's stance I believe is that making someone like Jordan or Howard shoot 20 extra free throws, slowing the game down, makes for a much less exciting product, both in person and especially on TV.
Unless you're a fan of the teams they're on or playing against, in which case, those FT's become nerve wracking because you've got a 50/50 or under chance of making them.
I see it less as commentary against bad free throw shooting but other teams use it to just stymie offenses. Team A scores. Team B takes the ball out, gets hacked, goes to free throw line. Even if Team B hit both free throws, they only get a potential of 2 points per possession. Team A runs back, sets up offense, can score 2 or 3 points. Then hacks again when possession changes. No offense, no flow, no fun. Yes, it is a strategy that can work, but that is bad for the NBA as a whole. _________________ Courage doesn't always roar.
Sometimes courage is the quiet voice at the end of the day saying...'I will try again tomorrow.'
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:25 am Post subject:
waterman40 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why reward people for being bad at free throws?
I know, I agree, bad free throwers shouldn't be in the league or should be paid less money. I'd like to see free throw percentage be a requirement for leaving college early. If you can't shoot 70% stay in school or D-league until you can.
The NBA's stance I believe is that making someone like Jordan or Howard shoot 20 extra free throws, slowing the game down, makes for a much less exciting product, both in person and especially on TV.
Well, if they went by your rules, the league never would have seen the great career of Shaquille O'Neal. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
The league should just get rid of free throws for any non-shooting fouls and the unnecessary "team fouls". That should speed up the game, especially at the end of the 4th quarter of a close game. The rule should be changed at least to give the team the option of taking the ball out instead of shooting free throws.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144461 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 10:29 am Post subject:
They didn't need to change the rules, they already have an intentional foul rule. Just tell your officials to call it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Adam Silver also disclosed the Association's concern with the parity imbalance caused by Durant's free agent decision. With the tide moving so soon against the new-look Warriors, I'd say the core in the Bay (KD, Steph, Draymond, Klay and Iguodala) will manage to stay together for three seasons, max., and more likely two or less ...
What exactly can be done about it? whos to say guys won't take small paycuts to join together. Especially when u include the fact that some get more in sponsors than there Nba contract
The new rule in no way rewards people for being poor free throw shooters. Instead, it reduces the opportunity to reward people who willfully violate the rules.
Adam Silver also disclosed the Association's concern with the parity imbalance caused by Durant's free agent decision. With the tide moving so soon against the new-look Warriors, I'd say the core in the Bay (KD, Steph, Draymond, Klay and Iguodala) will manage to stay together for three seasons, max., and more likely two or less ...
What exactly can be done about it? whos to say guys won't take small paycuts to join together. Especially when u include the fact that some get more in sponsors than there Nba contract
I don't know the specific steps that may be taken by Silver and his henchmen, if any, but I would be very surprised if this new Golden State core plays more than 2 - 3 seasons together (and forget about Iguodala ... I think he's gone within two years anyway). Silver made the explicit point of repeating himself that he's not onboard with this development, which suggests (based on my experience) that he's going to be doing something about it before too long.
It's not just the fact that most of us tend to overstate the willingness of others to defer market rates in salary. The reality is that this fantasy just doesn't materialize when individuals are in their prime earning-capacity years, and real $$$ is on the line. It's not just the NBA's ability to force features into a new CBA (which Silver's already alluding to) that will preclude Golden State from maintaining that stacked lineup. And it's not just about California's income tax disadvantages ... it's multiple issues converging on Golden State's roster make-up right now (already, before a game's been played!), and I would guess that Lacob & Co. will not be able to retain Durant, Steph, Draymond and Klay very far beyond maybe the 2017/2018 season ...
Nice to know that D'Andre Jordan and Dwight Howard are celebrating right now. Then again it's not nice to know that.
What really annoys me is the last minute of the game takes way too long. There are too many timeouts in between possessions and too many free throws which slow down what is supposed to be the most interesting part of the game. It drives me nuts when a game is ending and it takes several minutes to play out the last minute of the game.
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52654 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:12 pm Post subject:
rmonkey wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why reward people for being bad at free throws?
The new rule in no way rewards people for being poor free throw shooters. Instead, it reduces the opportunity to reward people who willfully violate the rules.
Who willfully violate the rules to gain an advantage. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Adam Silver also disclosed the Association's concern with the parity imbalance caused by Durant's free agent decision. With the tide moving so soon against the new-look Warriors, I'd say the core in the Bay (KD, Steph, Draymond, Klay and Iguodala) will manage to stay together for three seasons, max., and more likely two or less ...
What exactly can be done about it? whos to say guys won't take small paycuts to join together. Especially when u include the fact that some get more in sponsors than there Nba contract
Eh. Superteams have won most of the rings in NBA history. It's nothing new.
And I'm not convinced Silver or the league really cares that much. This might be posturing to get a bigger slice of the pie in the CBA negotiations.
And you're right -- it's pretty hard to imagine the owners and players union agreeing on any system that will discourage this.
The new rule in no way rewards people for being poor free throw shooters. Instead, it reduces the opportunity to reward people who willfully violate the rules.
Who willfully violate the rules to gain an advantage.
Teams who intentionally foul a poor free throw shooter who's not involved in game action.
Joined: 17 Jun 2003 Posts: 6284 Location: Central Coast
Posted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:47 pm Post subject:
DaMuleRules wrote:
waterman40 wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Why reward people for being bad at free throws?
I know, I agree, bad free throwers shouldn't be in the league or should be paid less money. I'd like to see free throw percentage be a requirement for leaving college early. If you can't shoot 70% stay in school or D-league until you can.
The NBA's stance I believe is that making someone like Jordan or Howard shoot 20 extra free throws, slowing the game down, makes for a much less exciting product, both in person and especially on TV.
Well, if they went by your rules, the league never would have seen the great career of Shaquille O'Neal.
I'd been okay with it, especially if he took a financial hit for his inability to make free throws. If Shaq would have lost $1-3 million per year, maybe he would have fixed his problem and not been the lazy butt who just excepted that was part of his charm to be a poor free throw shooter. _________________ LAKERS 2019-2020: NBA World Champions!
Pro level and they can't shoot a FT? I don't want the league protect poor FT shooting players. Everyone should work on their FT because it is a basic 1st step in pro level.
Practice more! It makes so much sense. Yet according to those who have gone to the trouble of diagnosing the actual root of the problem, it's the exact opposite of good advice.
The position taken upstream that suggested that FT conversion was merely a function of repetition (essentially, "practice makes perfect") and that those who convert at lower rates shouldn't be "allowed" in the NBA ... I have all kinds of issues with that view, but the link above addresses the fallacy of at least one of them.
I've said it a hundred times: just let teams waive their right to fts and opt to take the ball out of bounds instead. Easy. No one wants to watch fts. If you're concerned about late game situations, then just make fts mandatory the last two minutes of the game when the current hack a Shaq rule applies.
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