Philippines: President's call for public to murder drug addicts is working
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
jodeke wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reflexx wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
Quote:
He said he had been “portrayed or pictured to be a cousin of Hitler,” without elaborating.

Moments later he said, “Hitler massacred 3 million Jews … there’s 3 million drug addicts. There are. I’d be happy to slaughter them.”


Happy With Hitler Comparison


I have no doubt this jackass wants to be the next Pol Pot.


Except he was using the comparison in the context of how Hitler was killing innocents, while Duterte is trying to kill criminals. He was trying to contrast.

If he's to be criticized, it should be based on reality instead of what the sensationalized story is. There's definitely enough there to criticize without buying into the media narrative.


Actually, we understand it perfectly fine. No sane person in their right mind should be comparing themselves to one of history's most notorious mass murderers but I guess thats just me....

The Filipino Kim Jong-un


Thanks for your informed wisdom.

I'd love to read your detaiped explantion of how you came up with such a riveting comparison.


Visions of totalitarianism, dictatorship.

I'd love to read your definition of detaiped.


How vague.

Is that definition (how vague) from your personal dictionary or a dodge of the definition of detaiped?

LINK

Can we avoid a Duterte dictatorship?

Quote:
The coming change
EVEN before Mayor Rodrigo Duterte’s official proclamation as “President-elect,” which was due to happen today, his promise of “change” has already begun to unfold. But the “coming change” seems surprisingly different from what was promised by the just-concluded electoral process or imagined by his most ardent supporters. His approach to his constitutional presidency has a distinctly authoritarian character, and it seems to come closest to what the Israeli philosopher Jacob Leib Talmon calls “totalitarian democracy. This seems enough to cause many of his most rabid supporters some precious hours of sleep.

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Last edited by jodeke on Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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4stargeneralbulldog
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:07 pm    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
the association wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
4stargeneralbulldog wrote:
let the Philippines handle their business. I know it's a shocked in the west, but then again the west sees drug dealers in a completely different light and think it's no big deal. In movies and music, drug dealers/traffickers, may be celebrated in the West and some even see them as heroes, but it's a different mentality in the East. In certain Eastern countries, one can get the death penalty for it.

Let another country deal with their problems, it's a different cultural mentality, that does not affect any other sovereign nation, but their own.


The problem with that type of thinking is that if he does meet his goal of killing all dealers and addicts, eventually a lot of his citizens will want to leave the country....that will end up being a huge problem internationally because they will become refugees.


I seriously doubt killing mainly drug dealers/traffickers is going to start a mass exodus of Filipino refugees into western nations.

It's their country, if they want to kill drug dealers/traffickers, that's their business. The west also has problems with many countries in the East executing drug traffickers/dealers such as Singapore being a prime example or even locking them up for a long time like Thailand.

As stated before, different values, different cultures. Let them be on how they handle their drug situation that has no effect on another sovereign nation.


I noticed you conveniently left out drug addicts and that is where most of the innocent bystanders will end up being caught up as casualties in his drug war.



It's been stated that these drug addicts commits violent crimes to support their habits, and they kill people, especially cops with no remorse. No one likes a violent scumbag. Also, no one likes a drug dealer/trafficker poisoning the community, especially in the East. Like I've said, let them handle their situation that they see fit. These policies are not affecting another sovereign nation.


That is not what he said. He said he is open to murdering anybody who is a drug addict whether they are violent or not. You assume he is only going after the violent dealers, when in fact he is openly calling for the killing of anybody involved with drugs. It may not affect other countries now but it will eventually in the future when his drug war takes full effect. And anybody who has witnessed drug wars throughout history of mankind will realize that not everyone who ends up as a casualty are involved at all...there are plenty of innocents that will end up caught in the crossfire.


Not to mention that just because a country has its sovereignty, it doesn't mean that country has free reign to engage in human rights violations without the concern, criticism and possible action by the rest of the world.

Since Hitler was brought up, let's say that Hitler hand't started invading sovereign nations and settled for just rounding up Jews and gassing them to death and subjecting them to horrible "experiments". Should the rest of the world just sat back because Germany was "sovereign" and his genocide wasn't affecting another nation?


This is America, baby!

Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria ... all sovereign states that we either invaded with the explicit intent to overthrew the ruling government, or actively fomented revolution within, just over the course of the past 15 years. I'm probably forgetting a few others, too.

No ... modern America doesn't let others handle their own situations ... although, in fairness, I'm not sure whether and to what extent the oligarchy values the natural resources and geopolitical value of the Philippines these days anyway. But trust and believe ... there's not a single square inch on this planet that the U.S. believes is off-limits from its reach and control. In fact, U.S. vessels are running drug interdiction operations every week in the territorial waters of several Central and South American states, including several without the consent of the state. The wars on drugs and terror have resulted in a new normal where we don't recognize the sovereignty of anything that our oligarchs don't care to.


Don't get me wrong. I'm not advocating the World's Police Force attitude that this nation has frequently adopted. My point is that no nation should feel that they are free to abuse and slaughter people simply because of the "sovereign nation" status.

How the rest of the nations of the planet appropriately address atrocities is definitely something that should be evaluated. I don't advocate invasion nor over throwing of governments. But the notion that a country should be given carte blanche power to kill their citizens based on the ruling leaders' whims as 4starBS advocates is a sketchy proposal at BEST.


Nice strawman. When did I say that a leader has a right to kill innocent people? The drug dealers/cartels/traffickers are the ones getting killed mostly, coupled with violent addicts that will do anything to get their fix. And it seems like Reflexxx knows more about that region than you, I, or anyone in this forum. Funny thing is you can ask the Filipinos around the internet that many have no problem with what their president is doing.

And you brought up human rights violations? Ha. The US of A has millions of black people that are irate that their people are slaughtered like animals on the streets by cops and many of these black people didn't deserve it. Whereas drug dealers/traffickers and violent addicts are different in another country.

Maybe it's time for Americans to look at their country and its human rights violations before talking about another country.

A sovereign nation doesn't have carte blanche to act however it wants? Yeah like going into Iraq on the premise that the country has weapons of mass destruction. Or how about Vietnam in the 60s with the made up Gulf of Tonkin incident? And the numerous coups and installment of dictators in other countries? Come on, that's funny.

Seems to me that you feel that as an American you have the right to stick your nose in another country's affairs. Just like your political elite.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject:

When a government gives it's tacit approval for vigilantism, it cedes the power of lawful government in favor anarchial rule where instead of having obedience to laws reign supreme, a state of acquiescence to the self rule of individuals who assume the role of police, judge and jury becomes the defacto form of governance. A government that chooses this path, chooses to strip itself of these powers. Only a matter of time before citizens decide to ignore other directives of government that they deem cumbersome. A government that chooses to weaken itself by openly telling people to ignore it's own rules without peril can't ultimately sustain itself. Doing so to achieve a narrowly focused goal is foolish.
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 8:26 pm    Post subject:

Obama said we should kill Christians

Religion is the most horrible drug any human will ever face! Ever (another exclamation point)!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:23 pm    Post subject:

ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Obama said we should kill Christians

Religion is the most horrible drug any human will ever face! Ever (another exclamation point)!


Back to your meds for you!
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jodeke
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:22 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Obama said we should kill Christians

Religion is the most horrible drug any human will ever face! Ever (another exclamation point)!


Back to your meds for you!

That sounds like Wild Turkey talking.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 1:41 pm    Post subject:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippines-us-hold-war-games-duterte-tirades-214446003.html

Not suprirsed Reflexx defends his hero.

Quote:


A few days earlier, Duterte had branded Obama a "son of a whore" after being told the US president would raise the rights concerns at the summit.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:33 pm    Post subject:

AS I thought would happen, Duterte wants to align with the Chinese and Russians.

I wonder if he brought this up in his campaign?

The part about turning their back on their greatest ally?

This is just an awful awful thing to have happen. I feel really bad for the average person over there who had no idea what a monster this guy has turned out to be.

All my pinoy friends here in LA are just speechless.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:52 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/philippines-us-hold-war-games-duterte-tirades-214446003.html

Not suprirsed Reflexx defends his hero.

Quote:


A few days earlier, Duterte had branded Obama a "son of a whore" after being told the US president would raise the rights concerns at the summit.
He's far from my hero.

I just am not so quick to jump on dumb media hype when I know the other side. I'm attempting to be fair to him.

And that whole "son of a whore" thing is laughable.

1. It wasn't directed to Obama
2. It was just an expression/curse word
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 5:56 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
AS I thought would happen, Duterte wants to align with the Chinese and Russians.

I wonder if he brought this up in his campaign?

The part about turning their back on their greatest ally?

This is just an awful awful thing to have happen. I feel really bad for the average person over there who had no idea what a monster this guy has turned out to be.

All my pinoy friends here in LA are just speechless.


It is concerning.

He said that he mainly wants to open up to them economically.

There is still a treaty with the US militarily, and he plans to honor that. But his explanation is that the US hasn't really been all that great with them. The relationship has been largely one-sided.

So to help the economy, he wants to do business and trade with other countries that hold power in the region.
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governator
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:50 pm    Post subject:

Do avg filipinos really want to ally with russia/china? I know that's Duterte plan or at least what he said. All the filipino Americans I spoke with think it's BS (aligning with russia/china) but then again, they're Americans. Any filipinos (non americans) here? What do you think?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:06 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Do avg filipinos really want to ally with russia/china? I know that's Duterte plan or at least what he said. All the filipino Americans I spoke with think it's BS (aligning with russia/china) but then again, they're Americans. Any filipinos (non americans) here? What do you think?


From what I gather from friends and relatives there, the poorer ones don't care. The richer ones are apprehensive, but see possible business opportunities.

The military planes and equipment that the US has given/sold to the Philippines has been extremely old and beat up. It's not uncommon for planes to stall in flight. My father-in-law actually had to crash land because his plane stalled... twice.

Part of the reason the Muslims in the Philippines are so angry with the mainland is because Americans slaughtered a bunch of them a few decades back. Strategically, it made sense because there were a group of Muslim rebels that were not compliant with US rule and had escaped to some safe place in the mountains. They did so with the intent of launching attacks from there. They believed that place to be protected spiritually or something to that effect. The Americans went in and killed almost everybody there. Women and children included. Though they may have taken up arms too.

But that is one of the sticking points, and Duterte believes that there can actually be peace, or at least a willingness to talk of peace, if the US wasn't there anymore doing war training.

And the training the Philippine soldiers get from the war games (like the one going on right now) is pretty useless for the Philippines. All the equipment stays with the US, so it's not like the Philippines has that equipment they trained to use. It's only going to be used when the US needs them.

But in general, I think I'd describe the average feeling as apprehensive but optimistic. There is worry, but there is also the knowledge that what they've been doing up to this point hasn't exactly made the country well off.

I don't think anyone wants bad relations with the US. They want good relations with the US. They love the US. They just are open to making peace with other countries too.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:08 pm    Post subject:

Reflexx wrote:
governator wrote:
Do avg filipinos really want to ally with russia/china? I know that's Duterte plan or at least what he said. All the filipino Americans I spoke with think it's BS (aligning with russia/china) but then again, they're Americans. Any filipinos (non americans) here? What do you think?


From what I gather from friends and relatives there, the poorer ones don't care. The richer ones are apprehensive, but see possible business opportunities.

The military planes and equipment that the US has given/sold to the Philippines has been extremely old and beat up. It's not uncommon for planes to stall in flight. My father-in-law actually had to crash land because his plane stalled... twice.

Part of the reason the Muslims in the Philippines are so angry with the mainland is because Americans slaughtered a bunch of them a few decades back. Strategically, it made sense because there were a group of Muslim rebels that were not compliant with US rule and had escaped to some safe place in the mountains. They did so with the intent of launching attacks from there. They believed that place to be protected spiritually or something to that effect. The Americans went in and killed almost everybody there. Women and children included. Though they may have taken up arms too.

But that is one of the sticking points, and Duterte believes that there can actually be peace, or at least a willingness to talk of peace, if the US wasn't there anymore doing war training.

And the training the Philippine soldiers get from the war games (like the one going on right now) is pretty useless for the Philippines. All the equipment stays with the US, so it's not like the Philippines has that equipment they trained to use. It's only going to be used when the US needs them.

But in general, I think I'd describe the average feeling as apprehensive but optimistic. There is worry, but there is also the knowledge that what they've been doing up to this point hasn't exactly made the country well off.

I don't think anyone wants bad relations with the US. They want good relations with the US. They love the US. They just are open to making peace with other countries too.


I really appreciate your perspective on this, thank you for your insight.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:45 pm    Post subject:

Does he have a big entourage of bodyguards? I can foresee drug lords conjuring up something.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Now Duterte wants to ban cigarettes

So, in only a few months of taking office, dude has killed drug dealers, called Obama names, kicking US military out, and now banning cigs.

This is getting better by the day.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:12 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
Now Duterte wants to ban cigarettes

So, in only a few months of taking office, dude has killed drug dealers, called Obama names, kicking US military out, and now banning cigs.

This is getting better by the day.


Not 100% sold that what Duterte wants is what the avg filipinos want. Hard to believe that you suddenly want to align with a country that is actively taking over your sovereign sea/border but I defer to people who's more locally knowledgeable
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
Now Duterte wants to ban cigarettes

So, in only a few months of taking office, dude has killed drug dealers, called Obama names, kicking US military out, and now banning cigs.

This is getting better by the day.


Not 100% sold that what Duterte wants is what the avg filipinos want. Hard to believe that you suddenly want to align with a country that is actively taking over your sovereign sea/border but I defer to people who's more locally knowledgeable


yeah the China thing is probably just politics, albeit a dangerous game, but Duterte has been waiting 30 years to arrive on the main stage.

Our State Dept is probably on full overdrive on this.

Here is the link for the smoking ban http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/smoking-nationwide-ban-philippines-a7354066.html
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:09 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
governator wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
Now Duterte wants to ban cigarettes

So, in only a few months of taking office, dude has killed drug dealers, called Obama names, kicking US military out, and now banning cigs.

This is getting better by the day.


Not 100% sold that what Duterte wants is what the avg filipinos want. Hard to believe that you suddenly want to align with a country that is actively taking over your sovereign sea/border but I defer to people who's more locally knowledgeable


yeah the China thing is probably just politics, albeit a dangerous game, but Duterte has been waiting 30 years to arrive on the main stage.

Our State Dept is probably on full overdrive on this.

Here is the link for the smoking ban http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/smoking-nationwide-ban-philippines-a7354066.html


Good luck going up against phillips morris
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:28 pm    Post subject:

I have never been to the Philippines. Are drugs a huge problem there? I read that a lot of people smoke pot, are hard drugs (heroin, meth, etc) a big problem there?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:43 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
governator wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
Now Duterte wants to ban cigarettes

So, in only a few months of taking office, dude has killed drug dealers, called Obama names, kicking US military out, and now banning cigs.

This is getting better by the day.


Not 100% sold that what Duterte wants is what the avg filipinos want. Hard to believe that you suddenly want to align with a country that is actively taking over your sovereign sea/border but I defer to people who's more locally knowledgeable


yeah the China thing is probably just politics, albeit a dangerous game, but Duterte has been waiting 30 years to arrive on the main stage.

Our State Dept is probably on full overdrive on this.

Here is the link for the smoking ban http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/smoking-nationwide-ban-philippines-a7354066.html


Good luck going up against phillips morris


How does an entire country ban tobacco? I know certain countries like Bhutan for example have banned tobacco, but doing it in a place like the Philippines is going to lead to an outright revolt. Could you imagine a whole country going through nicotine withdrawals?
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:44 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
I have never been to the Philippines. Are drugs a huge problem there? I read that a lot of people smoke pot, are hard drugs (heroin, meth, etc) a big problem there?


They've got a big meth problem (although not quite the epidemic that it is here in the US) with the same typical associated issues (primarily an out of control meth associated theft rate). The meth epidemic in the midwest & southwest US is like the Phillipines meth problem on steroids. We just try to ignore it here because it's a rural problem with, ahem, rural faces.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:51 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
I have never been to the Philippines. Are drugs a huge problem there? I read that a lot of people smoke pot, are hard drugs (heroin, meth, etc) a big problem there?


Hi Lanny

In the Philippines they smoke pills, called Yaba, or Yabu or Shabu

Its basically meth.

All the other usual suspects are still present ( heroin etc) but it seems like from what I've read they've really taken a liking to smoking these little meth pills.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:31 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
governator wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
governator wrote:
dubaholic1 wrote:
Now Duterte wants to ban cigarettes

So, in only a few months of taking office, dude has killed drug dealers, called Obama names, kicking US military out, and now banning cigs.

This is getting better by the day.


Not 100% sold that what Duterte wants is what the avg filipinos want. Hard to believe that you suddenly want to align with a country that is actively taking over your sovereign sea/border but I defer to people who's more locally knowledgeable


yeah the China thing is probably just politics, albeit a dangerous game, but Duterte has been waiting 30 years to arrive on the main stage.

Our State Dept is probably on full overdrive on this.

Here is the link for the smoking ban http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/smoking-nationwide-ban-philippines-a7354066.html


Good luck going up against phillips morris


How does an entire country ban tobacco? I know certain countries like Bhutan for example have banned tobacco, but doing it in a place like the Philippines is going to lead to an outright revolt. Could you imagine a whole country going through nicotine withdrawals?


Lol, that'll be quite a sight
But phillips morris have fought against even health hazard labeling on Tabacco products in other countries before, we'll see.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:18 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
rwongega wrote:
ContagiousInspiration wrote:
Obama said we should kill Christians


Back to your meds for you!

That sounds like Wild Turkey talking.


Yer onto something, Joe. The link between gonzo journalism and bird bourbon is actually strong because Hunter S. Thompson was a professed Old Crow drinker.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2016 6:01 pm    Post subject:

dubaholic1 wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
I have never been to the Philippines. Are drugs a huge problem there? I read that a lot of people smoke pot, are hard drugs (heroin, meth, etc) a big problem there?


Hi Lanny

In the Philippines they smoke pills, called Yaba, or Yabu or Shabu

Its basically meth.

All the other usual suspects are still present ( heroin etc) but it seems like from what I've read they've really taken a liking to smoking these little meth pills.


Thank you my friend...I am still searching for the best beach in the world and I have the Philippines on my list like El Nido, Palawan and Samai, Davao among others.

I would still feel cool traveling there because I don't think I am the demographic of the people getting caught up in the mix, but that is scary stuff for sure....don't like the lack of due process.
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