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magic_bryant
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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Nobody is going to be willing to give away their players for a 1 or 2 yr, whichever it may be, rental of KG. To think otherwise, is stating that you believe EVERY team in the league was lining up for offers for Shaq in the summer of '04. Cause I fully think that KG wants to be in LA playing with Kobe and for Phil more than any other team. He knows that the closest thing to a "sure thing" is he and Kobe competing for titles.
The only teams that MAY be willing to offer up the necessary pieces to get KG and are willing to risk the 1-2 yr rental are:
The Nets- Can offer up RJ, but Minny would demand Carter instead and settle for RJ+Krstic and fillers.
NY- Send out Jalen and Penny for KG, but Minny isn't going to trade KG just to save money that will be lost anyway due to no tickets being sold, which is rough as is, much less without KG.
GS- They'd have to offer up Richardson in ANY package for KG. Minny isn't going to take any old Big that has promise, they're going to demand at least ONE proven star. Murphy's contract is too big and too long for a guy who makes little, if any, impact. They'd demand a package of Richardson with at least one of the young bigs. (Biedrins and/or Diogu)
I think they trade him this year, the team he goes to doesn't compete anymore than he has in Minny (1 and out for the most part), and KG still opts out.
Just my 2 cents.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17108
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| kells1220 wrote: | | Why do they have to wait for 2007. The Lakers could've been making moves. I think this plan is just an excuse. |
I don't know about an excuse, but I don't think it's much of a plan if it involves 3 seasons of losing before it comes to fruition. If they wanted to "tear down and start over," it would have been wiser to let Snaq walk in 2005, S&T Kobe for Marion and Barbosa, then sign Chandler in summer '05. We'd STILL have had capspace to add someone else!
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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wolfpaclaker
Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58344
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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There's many targets.
This issue has been beaten to death. Just accept it folks. Let the chips fall in place or not - and then judge.
Wait until 2007/2008.
There's no reason to just go back and forth over something none of us can change. The Lakers are sold on this capspace plan, and barring a superstar getting traded to LA - it's not going to change. |
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Walter Sobchak
Star Player
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 4520
Location: Hollywood, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: The real '07 plan and the reason behind it. |
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| Smel Counts wrote: | After next year, KG will opt out and take a pay cut to about $13 million. (At this point he will be worth hundreds of millions of dollars)
Because Grant, Sasha, Cook, McKie, and Walton's contract expires we will still have a max slot to sign FA's.
If LBJ or Bosh do decide to opt out, it will be for this opportunity.
If they don't then we still sign quality FA's to blend in w/ our incredible foundation. |
Ok look, no offense, but you were in here yesterday talking about how the Lakers could trade Brian Grant's contract for LeBron or Bosh ( link ) so your credibility when it comes to mapping out the future FA acquisitions and salary predictions for the Lakers is suspect at best. I understand you're getting excited, but maybe you would be better served to phrase these posts of yours in the form of a question so that more knowledgable people can tell you if what you're suggesting is even possible or not.
Kevin Garnett is almost surely not going to take a $7 million a year paycut to play with the Lakers, and the odds are if he opts out the TWolves could offer him more than his current contract says he'd get paid so he'd actually be passing up more. If he can't opt out till 2008, then tack another $2 mil a year on there. Odds are he's not going to kiss off roughly $50 million to come play for the Lakers, no matter how miserable it is in Minnesota. He is, after all, the guy who refused Minny's $120 million contract and then signed for $127 million and said "it's not about the money" :roll:
The Lakers might have a shot at Bosh or LeBron, but it's so far away that we really have no idea. Either of those guys could sign extensions before 2008 and that would be that. Just be patient and see how it all plays out. Sorry if I'm being harsh here, but I'm just trying to help.
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"People don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
Just a reminder folks: "a lot" is two words. So is "no one". |
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Socks
Franchise Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 10761
Location: Bay Area, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | Nobody is going to be willing to give away their players for a 1 or 2 yr, whichever it may be, rental of KG. To think otherwise, is stating that you believe EVERY team in the league was lining up for offers for Shaq in the summer of '04. Cause I fully think that KG wants to be in LA playing with Kobe and for Phil more than any other team. He knows that the closest thing to a "sure thing" is he and Kobe competing for titles.
Just my 2 cents. |
I agree with most of what you said here, but what makes you think KG thinks that? I've never heard him say that he really likes the Lakers. A lot of Laker fans seem to think that KG WANTS to come here, but I've neve seen any indicators. I'm happy to be proven wrong if someone wants to point out evidence.
Sure, LA is a good sell - come play with Kobe and PJ in the major market of LA for a storied franchise. But KG has learned it takes a team to win and do the Lakers have enough of a supporting cast to be attractive to him? Does he want to play with a great PG who can get him the rock? I'd love to believe it, but I just don't see a standout reason why KG would say "Deliver me to LA!" over any other team. |
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magic_bryant
Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 18179
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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KG and Kobe have played well toghether in nearly every ASG together. In Kobe's first ASG, it was KG who came to Kobe and told him "run with me young fella and I'll get you the ball". What happened? First chance he got, KG threw a lob to Kobe.
Also, 2 weeks or so ago, the T-Wolves were on ESPN. Steve "Snapper" Jones, came out of nowhere with this blurb: "You know, with all this talk of Kobe Bryant scoring and Kevin being traded, there's talk of him playing with a Kobe Bryant. Kevin's not one who likes to shoot or has that killer instinct."
It was SO out far out of left-field. The topic had NOTHING to do with Kevin's passivity or his being traded. It just came out of nowhere. Very odd. And if you weren't here during Training Camp, then maybe you should check out some of the things insiders have heard, regarding KG.
Just some of the "lil reasons" that I feel KG sees his last chance at a title as being in LA with Kobe and Phil. It's not like he wants to go to some team where they can make it to Conference Finals before being beat down in the East. He knows Kobe and he are a title winning duo. Kobe gives KG the necessary help to FINALLY show the world WHY he's better than Tim Duncan, by besting him in a 7-Game series.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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Smel Counts
Star Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 1744
Location: corner of Prairie and Manchester
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 5:55 pm Post subject: Re: The real '07 plan and the reason behind it. |
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| Walter Sobchak wrote: | | Smel Counts wrote: | After next year, KG will opt out and take a pay cut to about $13 million. (At this point he will be worth hundreds of millions of dollars)
Because Grant, Sasha, Cook, McKie, and Walton's contract expires we will still have a max slot to sign FA's.
If LBJ or Bosh do decide to opt out, it will be for this opportunity.
If they don't then we still sign quality FA's to blend in w/ our incredible foundation. |
Ok look, no offense, but you were in here yesterday talking about how the Lakers could trade Brian Grant's contract for LeBron or Bosh ( link ) so your credibility when it comes to mapping out the future FA acquisitions and salary predictions for the Lakers is suspect at best. I understand you're getting excited, but maybe you would be better served to phrase these posts of yours in the form of a question so that more knowledgable people can tell you if what you're suggesting is even possible or not.
Kevin Garnett is almost surely not going to take a $7 million a year paycut to play with the Lakers, and the odds are if he opts out the TWolves could offer him more than his current contract says he'd get paid so he'd actually be passing up more. If he can't opt out till 2008, then tack another $2 mil a year on there. Odds are he's not going to kiss off roughly $50 million to come play for the Lakers, no matter how miserable it is in Minnesota. He is, after all, the guy who refused Minny's $120 million contract and then signed for $127 million and said "it's not about the money" :roll:
The Lakers might have a shot at Bosh or LeBron, but it's so far away that we really have no idea. Either of those guys could sign extensions before 2008 and that would be that. Just be patient and see how it all plays out. Sorry if I'm being harsh here, but I'm just trying to help. |
Captain Obvious (aka The Honorable Judge Walter Credibility),
I wasn't saying that Brian Grant or his contract could actually be traded. Instead I was inferring that , in effect, the cap room vacated by his massive contract after next year could then be used to sign a Max. level FA. Hence, you're exchanging Brian Grant for a Chris Bosh. (Is that SPELLED OUT BETTER FOR YOU?) You might be kind of old and deaf so I'm spelling really slowly and loud.
Much like you could say that Jerry West, IN EFFECT, traded Vlade Divac, George Lynch, Anthony Peeler, and a couple second round picks for Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal. Now was that the actual trade? NO, but the cap room cleared by Peeler, Lynch, and Vlade's departure then made it possible to sign Shat as a FA. Hence, Vlade, Lynch, and Peeler were, IN EFFECT, traded for Shat and Kobe.
Now, unfortunately because ESPN(Marc Stein-the insider) apparently was wrong, and KG can't opt out until 2008, the threads have been rendered mute. In that scenario, I completely stand by a considerable likelihood of KG playing for mere peanuts ($13 mil./yr), for the opportunity to play in LA with Phil, Kobe, Bynum, and a Bosh/LBJ. To me, that just doesn't seem that ridiculous at all. Especially when considering that Malone played for $1 mil. on his sworn enemy franchise. Just my opinion however. And the other thread was in the form of a question. Unfortunately, the question wasn't answered until today. KG cannot opt out in '07. |
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thumpinghead
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 5657
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: The real '07 plan and the reason behind it. |
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| Smel Counts wrote: | I know we talked about this yesterday when II Cleva came upon huge news that was previously just speculation. But IMO it's just way too important to ignore. KG can opt out after next year.
You know Laker brass knew about this. KG hates McHale (even moreso after a flareup last month) and he wants to win before he dies. Minny will never be good enough with him to ever be any kind of contender. And he already has 2 homes in Malibu. (Can you say compound?)
If he tells Minny that he's opting out, they will either trade him this summer or risk losing him for nothing.
No other team can match salaries ($20 mil.) in a KG trade and still be talented enough to contend even with KG. Therefore nobody else will want to give up the franchise solely to rent him for 1 year.
The Lakers can/will offer Lamar/Kwame and maybe a draft pick for KG this summer and he will make sure it happens.
Our roster next year:
Mihm/Bynum
KG/Cook/Turiaf
Green/Walton
Kobe/McKie
Smush/Sasha/Wafer
Wait, it gets better.
After next year, KG will opt out and take a pay cut to about $13 million. (At this point he will be worth hundreds of millions of dollars)
Because Grant, Sasha, Cook, McKie, and Walton's contract expires we will still have a max slot to sign FA's.
If LBJ or Bosh do decide to opt out, it will be for this opportunity.
If they don't then we still sign quality FA's to blend in w/ our incredible foundation.
Possible 2007-08 lineup:
Bynum
KG/Turiaf
LBJ or Bosh/Green
Kobe/Wafer
Whoever
Locked up for several years this team will dominate and win multiple titles barring a team plane crash.
Jerry Buss will be completely vindicated.
Phil will hold the record for most titles.
Kobe will end up with at least 8 titles after winning this year's MVP.
Kobe will eventually take a pay cut to make sure that Bynum can be kept at max $.
The Lakers will once again truly become SHOWTIME if not undisputed GOAT and will be the biggest deal in the entertainment capitol of the world.
The team will be worth $1 billion (at least), courtside seats will go for $5,000 per game (at least).
Shat will never show his 800 lb. physique in public again by attempting to fake his own death (there will be Elvis/Bigfoot type sightings that can't be confirmed).
And we will all die happy people knowing that all is well in Lakerland at least until Andrew Bynum retires in 2025 w/ 6 mvp's (same as Kareem) and 12 titles (one more than Russell), while Chick laughs from heaven.
Now don't you feel a whole lot better? |
your dreaming
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Kevin Love. 2015. |
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Walter Sobchak
Star Player
Joined: 14 May 2003
Posts: 4520
Location: Hollywood, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: The real '07 plan and the reason behind it. |
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| Smel Counts wrote: | Captain Obvious (aka The Honorable Judge Walter Credibility),
I wasn't saying that Brian Grant or his contract could actually be traded. Instead I was inferring that , in effect, the cap room vacated by his massive contract after next year could then be used to sign a Max. level FA. Hence, you're exchanging Brian Grant for a Chris Bosh. (Is that SPELLED OUT BETTER FOR YOU?) You might be kind of old and deaf so I'm spelling really slowly and loud. |
Sorry, when I saw this:
"Odom/Kwame/Brian Grant for KG/LeBron
Do it Mitch!!!!!!"
I assumed you meant you wanted to trade Odom, Kwame and Brian Grant for KG and LeBron. Clearly I was nuts to have gotten that impression though, so I guess that was my bad? :roll:
| Smel Counts wrote: | | Now, unfortunately because ESPN(Marc Stein-the insider) apparently was wrong, and KG can't opt out until 2008, the threads have been rendered mute. In that scenario, I completely stand by a considerable likelihood of KG playing for mere peanuts ($13 mil./yr), for the opportunity to play in LA with Phil, Kobe, Bynum, and a Bosh/LBJ. To me, that just doesn't seem that ridiculous at all. Especially when considering that Malone played for $1 mil. on his sworn enemy franchise. Just my opinion however. And the other thread was in the form of a question. Unfortunately, the question wasn't answered until today. KG cannot opt out in '07. |
What you're apparently not understanding is that if KG opts out then the Lakers will have to use capspace to acquire him, and that means they won't have capspace for LeBron or Bosh. If KG doesn't opt out, then in your fantasy scenario the Lakers will be trading for him so he won't have to take a $50-$100 million paycut over the course of his contract. With this all going down in the same summer (2008) the Lakers would have to effectively be able to dangle their capspace in a way that would make Kevin Garnett be able to credibly threaten the TWolves with the possibility of taking that big paycut to play for the Lakers as a FA while simultaneously wooing Bosh and LeBron with that same exact capspace. How exactly would that work? Here's how I see the negotiations between McHale and Garnett going:
KG: "I'm gonna opt out and go to the Lakers as a FA anyway so you might as well trade me and get something back in return."
Lurch: "Putting aside that I'm skeptical that you'd really accept over $50 million less to play for the Lakers over the course of this contract, I don't know if you've heard but the Lakers have been making an all-out push to lure LeBron James there with that capspace money."
KG: "Uh, don't believe it, they want me more."
Lurch: "Kevin, you're 32 years old. LeBron is 23. You really think the Lakers would rather have you over him for the same amount of money? Come on, I'm not buying it. Go ahead and opt out, I'm not trading you to the Lakers. But I'll tell you what, if you want you can opt out and we'll negotiate a new contract with you that will pay you $50 million more than you could ever get with any other team so you can finish your career here where you started it. If you really hate it here, I'll trade you to the Eastern Conference, but I'm not going to trade you to the Lakers."
See how that plays out? Anyway, once again, I'm just trying to be helpful 
PS - In the spirit of being helpful, this thread was rendered "moot" not "mute"; unless you meant that this thread's capacity to speak had been taken away from it.
_________________
"People don't think it be like it is, but it do." - Oscar Gamble
Just a reminder folks: "a lot" is two words. So is "no one". |
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Smel Counts
Star Player
Joined: 07 May 2005
Posts: 1744
Location: corner of Prairie and Manchester
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 1:34 am Post subject: Re: The real '07 plan and the reason behind it. |
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| Walter Sobchak wrote: | | Smel Counts wrote: | Captain Obvious (aka The Honorable Judge Walter Credibility),
I wasn't saying that Brian Grant or his contract could actually be traded. Instead I was inferring that , in effect, the cap room vacated by his massive contract after next year could then be used to sign a Max. level FA. Hence, you're exchanging Brian Grant for a Chris Bosh. (Is that SPELLED OUT BETTER FOR YOU?) You might be kind of old and deaf so I'm spelling really slowly and loud. |
Sorry, when I saw this:
"Odom/Kwame/Brian Grant for KG/LeBron
Do it Mitch!!!!!!"
I assumed you meant you wanted to trade Odom, Kwame and Brian Grant for KG and LeBron. Clearly I was nuts to have gotten that impression though, so I guess that was my bad? :roll:
| Smel Counts wrote: | | Now, unfortunately because ESPN(Marc Stein-the insider) apparently was wrong, and KG can't opt out until 2008, the threads have been rendered mute. In that scenario, I completely stand by a considerable likelihood of KG playing for mere peanuts ($13 mil./yr), for the opportunity to play in LA with Phil, Kobe, Bynum, and a Bosh/LBJ. To me, that just doesn't seem that ridiculous at all. Especially when considering that Malone played for $1 mil. on his sworn enemy franchise. Just my opinion however. And the other thread was in the form of a question. Unfortunately, the question wasn't answered until today. KG cannot opt out in '07. |
What you're apparently not understanding is that if KG opts out then the Lakers will have to use capspace to acquire him, and that means they won't have capspace for LeBron or Bosh. If KG doesn't opt out, then in your fantasy scenario the Lakers will be trading for him so he won't have to take a $50-$100 million paycut over the course of his contract. With this all going down in the same summer (2008) the Lakers would have to effectively be able to dangle their capspace in a way that would make Kevin Garnett be able to credibly threaten the TWolves with the possibility of taking that big paycut to play for the Lakers as a FA while simultaneously wooing Bosh and LeBron with that same exact capspace. How exactly would that work? Here's how I see the negotiations between McHale and Garnett going:
KG: "I'm gonna opt out and go to the Lakers as a FA anyway so you might as well trade me and get something back in return."
Lurch: "Putting aside that I'm skeptical that you'd really accept over $50 million less to play for the Lakers over the course of this contract, I don't know if you've heard but the Lakers have been making an all-out push to lure LeBron James there with that capspace money."
KG: "Uh, don't believe it, they want me more."
Lurch: "Kevin, you're 32 years old. LeBron is 23. You really think the Lakers would rather have you over him for the same amount of money? Come on, I'm not buying it. Go ahead and opt out, I'm not trading you to the Lakers. But I'll tell you what, if you want you can opt out and we'll negotiate a new contract with you that will pay you $50 million more than you could ever get with any other team so you can finish your career here where you started it. If you really hate it here, I'll trade you to the Eastern Conference, but I'm not going to trade you to the Lakers."
See how that plays out? Anyway, once again, I'm just trying to be helpful
PS - In the spirit of being helpful, this thread was rendered "moot" not "mute"; unless you meant that this thread's capacity to speak had been taken away from it. |
(too-shay)
The KG scenario was based on either
a) a forced trade followed 1 year later by voluntarily opting out w/ us to take the pay cut and even potentially making it back on the tail end of the contract in extra years (Doc Buss has always been loyal to loyal players).
or
b) as a FA under the condition that Lamar is leaving no matter what. (He's just not worth 3 more years at $40.5 mil. IMO). Either he goes in the forced KG trade or we just trade him for '07 expiring contracts. But Odom's definitely gone.
Odom's cap space combined w/ Grant's, Kwame's, Mihm's, McKie's, and Walton's (a combined $45 mil.) was then going to be used on KG and to lure more FA's (who hopefully would have found a max deal on a loaded Laker team very desirable - at least I was hoping someone would). To me it seemed reasonable, but alas it's irrelevant now.
I definitely could have explained it better at the time, but to be honest, I was so drunk on KG love that it was all I could do to just type out gibberish.
Go Lakers
How about that Brian Cook?
We don't need no stinkin KG |
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mitch&kwame
Starting Rotation
Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| dvjs wrote: | KG and Nocioni become Lakers in the summer of 2007.
F- Kevin Garnett
F- Lamar Odom
C- Andrew Bynum
G- Kobe Bryant
G- Smush Parker
6th- Andres Nocioni |
In NBA Live. 8) |
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