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Media members voted for All-Summer League teams, leaving off D’Angelo Russell (22 ppg, 6R, 4A, LAL 3-1 when played).
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Halflife
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 Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | ahaider wrote: | | . I don't know what Russell lacks for you to think he's not a potential all star. |
On the ball defense
Ball Handling / Passing
Lack of blow by ability off the dribble
Overall strength/athleticism
I don't understand assigning potential All Star status to player with the above weaknesses. |
Okafor guy eh? |
Okafor is like one of those horrible movies with a cult following....I don't understand how anyone can get hung up on a draft pick or free agent signing. I mean I was fairly upset over a recent FA signing, but I was mostly over it a week later, and god help me if it still bothers me by the time summer camp starts. |
Once a young player puts on the Lakers jersey I don't understand how some people actively root for failure of the player |
Why is critiquing the players seen as rooting for them to fail? It's not. It's simply stating a basketball opinion based on how a person views the player. |
its not basketball opinion. It's called unconscious bias.
- Rick pitino = best passer since magic
-jay bilas = passing savant
He has sick scoring ability
Elite length which in spurts he showed he can defend
Great body control getting into paint and getting shot off in paint
Strength? He kills guys his size and smaller in post. Gets shot off in paint
A little careless with handles but primarily due to youth.
You just hatin |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Russell had in many ways a better rookie season than Billups or Miller did, under pretty great duress, and he is already much more skilled a scorer than either. And both of them got considerably better as they went along. And Ginobili? Dude became one of the most valuable perimeter threats in the league...
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“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| kobeandgary wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Shlumpledink wrote: | | This is why we need to rally behind our boy D'angelo instead of hating on him like some people do. Don't be swayed by the media because the media wants to hate him. They want him to fail. They will do anything in their power to make that happen so they can say "told you so" |
So long as he's a Laker, not sure why any Lakers fan should hate the kid. I don't understand it at all. |
Outside of the Nick Young incident, no reason really. |
You hate or dislike Russell over the Nick Young video? |
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sgtpepper1972
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwyn wrote: | Here we go again.
Now it's DLO getting the (bleep) instead of Kobe.
Clowns.
 |
And it seems Simmons will be the heir apparent to Lebron as the media darling that is... |
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sgtpepper1972
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Gwyn wrote: | Here we go again.
Now it's DLO getting the (bleep) instead of Kobe.
Clowns.
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And it seems Simmons will be the heir apparent to Lebron as the media darling that is... |
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sgtpepper1972
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Sorry for the double post... |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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I feel like we're just fabricating a dumb narrative out of thin air. The love him or hate him stuff. As yinoma said, why would anyone that calls themselves a Laker fan have a vested interest in watching him fail. Just let the kid be himself.
Some are beginning to sound like Tom Penn..  |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | I feel like we're just fabricating a dumb narrative out of thin air. The love him or hate him stuff. As yinoma said, why would anyone that calls themselves a Laker fan have a vested interest in watching him fail. Just let the kid be himself.
Some are beginning to sound like Tom Penn.. |
Even if not rooting to fail, reveling in any bad games, etc. I haven't seen this kind of scrutiny and vitriol for such a young player in a long time.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
That's the exact opposite of the truth. Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, James Harden, Steph Curry, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, etc. All players who made MASSIVE leaps from their rookie seasons.Why? Because no matter how skilled or savvy a 19-20 year old is, he is neither the most skilled nor savvy guy amongst players who are 5-10+ years old than him. They've simply played too much basketball and know far more of the tricks of the trade.
Contrast that with athleticism. Can a 19-20 year old be the most athletic guy on the court? Easily. And if he's not the most athletic on any given night, he's usually in the Top 2-3.
Less athletic player have a MUCH larger development curve than athletic ones. Reason being, they don't have physical traits that they can fall back on. The same is true with size, to an extent. A 7'3" Porzingis has advantages from Day 1, for example, but the degree to which that is an advantage for him doesn't change much after that. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Wait, Plaza used Chauncey Billups as an example of a guy who didn't improve much?!?!? Are you serious???
Chauncey Billups was considered a bust after a very inefficient 11/4 rookie year, and got traded halfway through his rookie year for peanuts. He eventually became a 4 time all-star, 3 time All-NBA selection, and a Finals MVP.
Yes, Chauncey Billups changed a lot from when he started. Holy crap. |
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22
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| This is why I have the last line in my sig LOL |
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DuncanIdaho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Russell had in many ways a better rookie season than Billups or Miller did, under pretty great duress, and he is already much more skilled a scorer than either. And both of them got considerably better as they went along. And Ginobili? Dude became one of the most valuable perimeter threats in the league... |
Seriously. I'd be thrilled if Russel's peak play was peak Ginobili. |
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nash
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
That's the exact opposite of the truth. Steve Nash, Chauncey Billups, James Harden, Steph Curry, Gary Payton, Jason Kidd, etc. All players who made MASSIVE leaps from their rookie seasons.Why? Because no matter how skilled or savvy a 19-20 year old is, he is neither the most skilled nor savvy guy amongst players who are 5-10+ years old than him. They've simply played too much basketball and know far more of the tricks of the trade.
Contrast that with athleticism. Can a 19-20 year old be the most athletic guy on the court? Easily. And if he's not the most athletic on any given night, he's usually in the Top 2-3.
Less athletic player have a MUCH larger development curve than athletic ones. Reason being, they don't have physical traits that they can fall back on. The same is true with size, to an extent. A 7'3" Porzingis has advantages from Day 1, for example, but the degree to which that is an advantage for him doesn't change much after that. |
That is true. Most late bloomers are unathletic players that need time to refine their skills enough to be able to compete with fast moving players. Athletic players are able to do a lot of damage with a limited skillset, but if they don't develop their games they have short careers declining on the early 30's while unathletic skilled players are able to play well late into their careers.
Being unathletic is not an advantage for any means, but he has good length and skillset to make up for his bellow elite athleticism if he keeps working hard as he is doing. Anyway I believe he is ahead of the curve as an offensive option for a 20 years old player. You can't teach athleticism, but you can't also teach "ice in the vains", some guys will never be able to take a last shot, he did it twice against 76ers. The point in between was his fault in some degree, but it was a valuable lesson and he bounced back immediately. Can someone work hard or be teached about confidence? |
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AY2043
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | Wait, Plaza used Chauncey Billups as an example of a guy who didn't improve much?!?!? Are you serious???
Chauncey Billups was considered a bust after a very inefficient 11/4 rookie year, and got traded halfway through his rookie year for peanuts. He eventually became a 4 time all-star, 3 time All-NBA selection, and a Finals MVP.
Yes, Chauncey Billups changed a lot from when he started. Holy crap. |
He also mentioned Manu Ginobli. You know, the guy that's been a top 3 player on 3 championship teams and may well end up in the Hall of Fame |
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TDRock
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Ok but all those guys were All Stars at one point (actually not sure about Miller) and have had by all accounts successful careers. Why wouldn't D'Angelo be able to do the same? (You posted earlier he's not All Star material)
This is a real question. |
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Plaza234
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Russell had in many ways a better rookie season than Billups or Miller did, under pretty great duress, and he is already much more skilled a scorer than either. And both of them got considerably better as they went along. And Ginobili? Dude became one of the most valuable perimeter threats in the league... |
When you win 17 games, you gotta take individual stats with a grain of salt. Putting up numbers on good teams vs putting them up on bad teams in garbage time is not the same thing. |
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OregonLakerGuy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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^^^
Just quit while you are behind. |
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Plaza234
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | Wait, Plaza used Chauncey Billups as an example of a guy who didn't improve much?!?!? Are you serious???
Chauncey Billups was considered a bust after a very inefficient 11/4 rookie year, and got traded halfway through his rookie year for peanuts. He eventually became a 4 time all-star, 3 time All-NBA selection, and a Finals MVP.
Yes, Chauncey Billups changed a lot from when he started. Holy crap. |
You are way too caught up in "efficency". I said players can become better shooters as they age. Billups shot the ball better. The rest of his game didn't really change at all from his rookie year. He was always a solid defender, and a solid decision making PG.
His rookie year his assists/turnover were 5.1/2.8. He averaged 1.7 steals a game. He shot 85% from the foul line.
Plus, he didn't start getting accolades for his play until he was around 4 other solid players. Billups was NEVER a guy to build a team around. Never. He was a solid pro. Never spectactular. And that is really how he started out his career as. Solid, not a good shooter, but got better.
But all the other parts of his game were there from the time he was a rookie. |
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kobeandgary
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | kobeandgary wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Shlumpledink wrote: | | This is why we need to rally behind our boy D'angelo instead of hating on him like some people do. Don't be swayed by the media because the media wants to hate him. They want him to fail. They will do anything in their power to make that happen so they can say "told you so" |
So long as he's a Laker, not sure why any Lakers fan should hate the kid. I don't understand it at all. |
Outside of the Nick Young incident, no reason really. |
You hate or dislike Russell over the Nick Young video? |
Poor reading comprehension, he was saying he doesn't understand why a laker fan may "hate" Russell, i said outside of the Young incident i can't think of a reason to either. Now with that being said i'm not one to down play what he did, because it was a pretty terrible thing to do to a teammate but it's not something i hold against him as long as players in the league don't. |
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kobeandgary
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="Plaza234"] | Omar Little wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Russell had in many ways a better rookie season than Billups or Miller did, under pretty great duress, and he is already much more skilled a scorer than either. And both of them got considerably better as they went along. And Ginobili? Dude became one of the most valuable perimeter threats in the league... |
I wouldn't call Manu one of the most valuable perimeter threats, sure he was a good player but he came off the bench more often than not and. I would agree that less athletic guards have lower peaks, that doesn't mean Russell can't be the exception. |
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Plaza234
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| TDRock wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Ok but all those guys were All Stars at one point (actually not sure about Miller) and have had by all accounts successful careers. Why wouldn't D'Angelo be able to do the same? (You posted earlier he's not All Star material)
This is a real question. |
Ok here's a real answer:
Billups was a two way player from the beginning. Russel isn't. Billups didn't get accolades till he found a spot on a good team. His game really didn't change much whether he was playing on a good team or a bad team. He was who he was. The only major improvement he made in his game from the start of his career was 3 point shooting.
I'm not sure how Andre Miller ever made an All Star team to be honest.
Harden is better than Russell at everything.
Ginobilli was a two way player.
When you lack foot-speed at guard, you will almost certainly be a poor defender. When you lack explosion to go past your guy on offense, you are going to be left with a limited offensive game of long jump shots and pick n roll offense. People thinking Russell is the next Steph Curry or Steve Nash at running that PnR to create offense are projecting things that most likely will not happen. Curry and Nash are two of the most skilled players in the history of the NBA. Not only great shooters but great ball handlers.
How many PGs can't explode by their guy off the dribble? And if there are any, how many are very successful? I'm having trouble coming up with a name other than Miller, Billups, Payton. And at least Billups/Payton could always bring it on the D end even if their offense was limited.
PGs (who were at least considered Good or All Star Level Players) who lacked athletic explosion made up for it on the defensive end (Billups, Payton, Stockton) or were such highly skilled offensive players that their lack of defense didn't matter (Nash, Curry).
I can't think of any PGs who were bad defenders AND on offense could not blow by their guy that were considered good NBA players other than Nash/Curry. And if you expect Russell to be that, good for you. I don't. I don't expect any player to be the "next Curry or Nash". Those guys were unique in their own ways. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="kobeandgary"] | Plaza234 wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Russell had in many ways a better rookie season than Billups or Miller did, under pretty great duress, and he is already much more skilled a scorer than either. And both of them got considerably better as they went along. And Ginobili? Dude became one of the most valuable perimeter threats in the league... |
I wouldn't call Manu one of the most valuable perimeter threats, sure he was a good player but he came off the bench more often than not and. I would agree that less athletic guards have lower peaks, that doesn't mean Russell can't be the exception. |
You may not, but the spurs and many others considered him the most valuable guy on their team some years, and there was talk of him being a top five playoff MVP tyoe.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | Its a Lakers thing.
No talk about DLo
No mentions of Nance
No mentions of Zubs
Ingrams best game and he was a sidenote at the bottom of the page of performers of the day... |
With Kobe out of the picture, we might actually see the Lakers get overlooked by the media. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | Wait, Plaza used Chauncey Billups as an example of a guy who didn't improve much?!?!? Are you serious???
Chauncey Billups was considered a bust after a very inefficient 11/4 rookie year, and got traded halfway through his rookie year for peanuts. He eventually became a 4 time all-star, 3 time All-NBA selection, and a Finals MVP.
Yes, Chauncey Billups changed a lot from when he started. Holy crap. |
You are way too caught up in "efficency". I said players can become better shooters as they age. Billups shot the ball better. The rest of his game didn't really change at all from his rookie year. He was always a solid defender, and a solid decision making PG.
His rookie year his assists/turnover were 5.1/2.8. He averaged 1.7 steals a game. He shot 85% from the foul line.
Plus, he didn't start getting accolades for his play until he was around 4 other solid players. Billups was NEVER a guy to build a team around. Never. He was a solid pro. Never spectactular. And that is really how he started out his career as. Solid, not a good shooter, but got better.
But all the other parts of his game were there from the time he was a rookie. |
Good grief.
1) No, I'm not just "caught up in efficiency." Chauncey Billups was considered a bust for the first several years of his career, and his entire game improved as the years went on, and he was a MUCH better player in his prime than he was as a rookie.
2) Billups averaged 3.9apg (not 5.1), 2.2topg (not 2.9), and 1.3spg (not 1.7) his rookie year.
3) Spare me the idea that Billups only got good because he played with Hamilton, Prince, & the Wallace boys. He played with prime Kevin Garnett & Terrell Brandon before that and wasn't very good, but it was the Pistons who made him. Yeah, okay.
Basically the same guy, right?  |
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nash
Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001
Posts: 8194
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| Posted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Plaza234 wrote: | | TDRock wrote: | | Plaza234 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Because Ive seen your posts and you constantly refuse to contextualize his age, the situation he was under in his first year, etc. you act as if he has 1-2 years to become who he is and that's that. |
That's my opinion on most players who lack athletic ability. They are who they are. People get way too carried away with what Steph Curry did thinking that any average joe can just become the most skilled player in the game and beat everyone thru pure skill. It simply does not happen. He's an anomaly. He's a freak in that way. Nobody like him before, nobody like him since.
Has Andre Miller really changed much from when he started? How about Chauncey Billups? Manu Ginobbili. These guys that aren't that athletic, don't really change up or improve their games. Maybe some become better shooters. But everything else - they are what they are.
Look at James Harden. His game really has not changed much other than more usage since starting in OKC. He's always had that big body that can, while not being very quick, can burrow past defenders off the dribble. He's always had that. In fact, he may have gotten less athletic now than when he came into the league.
There just is not that big development curve for non-athletic players. |
Ok but all those guys were All Stars at one point (actually not sure about Miller) and have had by all accounts successful careers. Why wouldn't D'Angelo be able to do the same? (You posted earlier he's not All Star material)
This is a real question. |
Ok here's a real answer:
Billups was a two way player from the beginning. Russel isn't. Billups didn't get accolades till he found a spot on a good team. His game really didn't change much whether he was playing on a good team or a bad team. He was who he was. The only major improvement he made in his game from the start of his career was 3 point shooting.
I'm not sure how Andre Miller ever made an All Star team to be honest.
Harden is better than Russell at everything.
Ginobilli was a two way player.
When you lack foot-speed at guard, you will almost certainly be a poor defender. When you lack explosion to go past your guy on offense, you are going to be left with a limited offensive game of long jump shots and pick n roll offense. People thinking Russell is the next Steph Curry or Steve Nash at running that PnR to create offense are projecting things that most likely will not happen. Curry and Nash are two of the most skilled players in the history of the NBA. Not only great shooters but great ball handlers.
How many PGs can't explode by their guy off the dribble? And if there are any, how many are very successful? I'm having trouble coming up with a name other than Miller, Billups, Payton. And at least Billups/Payton could always bring it on the D end even if their offense was limited.
PGs (who were at least considered Good or All Star Level Players) who lacked athletic explosion made up for it on the defensive end (Billups, Payton, Stockton) or were such highly skilled offensive players that their lack of defense didn't matter (Nash, Curry).
I can't think of any PGs who were bad defenders AND on offense could not blow by their guy that were considered good NBA players other than Nash/Curry. And if you expect Russell to be that, good for you. I don't. I don't expect any player to be the "next Curry or Nash". Those guys were unique in their own ways. |
Most of your concerns are attached to the PG label. If you remove the P letter it all seems to fall in place. This is a tough position to learn and he didn't play this role in college, he was a facilitator and scorer with great results. There were not a lot of players able to knock down shots like him at his age, that alone makes him a potential all star in the future. That is not a lock, but a fair possibility. Luke has a good feel for the game, he ever had it since he was a rookie and I'm sure if it's the case he is going move him back to his scorer/facilitator role letting another player initiate the offense and guard quicker modern PG. Dlo has good length, enough athleticism and will have enough strength to defend most SG if that is the case. |
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