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fiendishoc
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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Location: The (real) short corner
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 Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 2:05 am Post subject: |
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| Bard207 wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: |
Bard, which of those players can legitimately attack the defense from the top off the dribble? When a team doesn't have enough of those they become easier to plan against. Atlanta traded Teague and promoted Schroder. That has left a gap. Thabo is being replaced by Hardaway, Prince and Bembry. In a trade scenario that happens this year instead of next. |
Laker's Fan
All we can do is disagree on Lou Williams to Atlanta as a trade the Hawks would be interested in. Is there a mention somewhere of the Hawks actually being interested in bringing Lou back? I realize that it has been mentioned before on LG, but is there a web site on the Internet that is pro Hawks and the participants are desiring it to happen? |
Not that I know of, no. I concede the probability of such a deal even being discussed are slim. The thread was about how Lou can best fit/help the Lakers. Point I'm making is that he's valuable but ultimately part of a roster imbalance. We don't need to trade him but if one were to look at options I'm saying Thabo is an example of what LA needs. Personally I see a case for Atlanta to have interest in such a swap and am not sure if Mitch would be interested. Lou is on a great contract and can be part of our growth plan this year. |
I agree that there is a roster imbalance, but the FO didn't think so when bringing in backcourt players.
Clarkson and Nick Young were with the team for the 2014 - 2015 season and the FO should have had enough of an opportunity to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses.
D Russell was the #2 pick in the 2015 draft and the FO should have been able to make a reasonable projection on what he could and couldn't do in his first few seasons in the league.
They signed Lou after the earlier moves of bringing in Young, Clarkson and Russell. This Summer, they took in Calderon because he had some draft picks attached and brought back Huertas.
The team was at or near the bottom on defense for the 2014 - 2015 season. The team was at or near the bottom on defense for the 2015 - 2016 season. There should be some improvement due to better coaching, but the improvement might be better and faster if at least one of the backcourt players brought in over the past few years would be a something of a defensive stalwart. |
Yeah this is one of the criticisms of the front office that is actually fair. Their FA targets have been heavy on historical box score production and / or reputation and light on stuff measured by more advanced metrics. Maybe from a dollar perspective he was a value signing that was brought in to bring in some scoring in Byron's toilet clogged offense and hopefully lead to some wins, but that's a bit short sighted. Contrast that with Portland's signing of Aminu (who many were calling an overpay at that time) which looks far far better now at only slightly more per year. |
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lakurluv
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Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 2529
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Lou should probably stick around but not at the cost of cutting one of our young guards development time.
If the Rotation is:
Russell + Clarkson + Deng + Randle + Mozgov
You easily bring in Lou off the bench as the scorer, he should provide the positive vet presence that Ingram would need. The bench would look like this:
Calderon + Williams + Ingram + Nance Jr. + Black
I know our guys are young, but Clarkson and Randle are now 3 years in and we should start seeing a significant difference in their development and I'm guessing Russell will catch up by simple osmosis. However Lou could be traded to bring in another significant player who could really contribute to the team and bring them in to the "NOW" category. If we were to package him into a deal for a true shooting guard capable of starting and playing significant minutes, can someone say Russell Westbrook. With Westbrook at the 2 or interchangeable with Russell, trust me when I say instant Playoff seeding for the Lakers this year. Picture this Starting lineup:
Westbrook + Russell + Deng + Randle + Mozgov
Second Unit:
Calderon + Clarkson + Ingram + Nance Jr. + Black
If you take a good look at our players and lineup, our team actually resembles more of an OKC team than we do a Warriors team, so could the Lakers be serious about setting cap aside to make a signing... If Westbrook would consider the Lakers this season, I know we could get the deal done and believe we have the assets to do it.
Just saying, dreams can come true...LOL |
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Dave20
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Joined: 15 Jun 2013
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
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fontana3d
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 3794
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
The thing is that the Lakers made their bed with him and they have to lay in it. |
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Dave20
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| fontana3d wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
The thing is that the Lakers made their bed with him and they have to lay in it. |
Unfortunately, that's true. |
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Bard207
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: |
Bard, which of those players can legitimately attack the defense from the top off the dribble? When a team doesn't have enough of those they become easier to plan against. Atlanta traded Teague and promoted Schroder. That has left a gap. Thabo is being replaced by Hardaway, Prince and Bembry. In a trade scenario that happens this year instead of next. |
Laker's Fan
All we can do is disagree on Lou Williams to Atlanta as a trade the Hawks would be interested in. Is there a mention somewhere of the Hawks actually being interested in bringing Lou back? I realize that it has been mentioned before on LG, but is there a web site on the Internet that is pro Hawks and the participants are desiring it to happen? |
Not that I know of, no. I concede the probability of such a deal even being discussed are slim. The thread was about how Lou can best fit/help the Lakers. Point I'm making is that he's valuable but ultimately part of a roster imbalance. We don't need to trade him but if one were to look at options I'm saying Thabo is an example of what LA needs. Personally I see a case for Atlanta to have interest in such a swap and am not sure if Mitch would be interested. Lou is on a great contract and can be part of our growth plan this year. |
I agree that there is a roster imbalance, but the FO didn't think so when bringing in backcourt players.
Clarkson and Nick Young were with the team for the 2014 - 2015 season and the FO should have had enough of an opportunity to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses.
D Russell was the #2 pick in the 2015 draft and the FO should have been able to make a reasonable projection on what he could and couldn't do in his first few seasons in the league.
They signed Lou after the earlier moves of bringing in Young, Clarkson and Russell. This Summer, they took in Calderon because he had some draft picks attached and brought back Huertas.
The team was at or near the bottom on defense for the 2014 - 2015 season. The team was at or near the bottom on defense for the 2015 - 2016 season. There should be some improvement due to better coaching, but the improvement might be better and faster if at least one of the backcourt players brought in over the past few years would be a something of a defensive stalwart. |
Yeah this is one of the criticisms of the front office that is actually fair. Their FA targets have been heavy on historical box score production and / or reputation and light on stuff measured by more advanced metrics. Maybe from a dollar perspective he was a value signing that was brought in to bring in some scoring in Byron's toilet clogged offense and hopefully lead to some wins, but that's a bit short sighted. Contrast that with Portland's signing of Aminu (who many were calling an overpay at that time) which looks far far better now at only slightly more per year. |
Agreed.
After seeing Hibbert not come close to the expectations of most, I thought about the alternate path they might have been able to take in Summer 2015. They wouldn't have been able to pursue LMA because of the Sacramento trade happening so early in the Free Agency process.
Summer 2015
* Take Jason Thompson ($6,431,250) + Carl Landry ($6,500,000) + future unprotected first round pick + pick swap potential.
* Sign Aminu ($7.5 million)
* Sign Will Barton ($3.7 million)
The above totals to roughly $24.13 million.
versus
$15,500,000...Hibbert
$7,000,000.....Lou
$3,000,000.....Bass
_________
$25,500,000
Roughly $1.3 million available to allocate more to Aminu and/or Barton if needed,
Summer 2016
* Stretch waive Jason Thompson's partial guarantee over three seasons:
2016: $945,126
2017: $945,126
2018: $945,126
* Sign Mozgov
$7,500,000....Aminu
$6,500,000....Landry
$3,866,500....Barton
$945,126.......Thomspon (stretch waiver charge)*
__________
$18,811,626
versus
$18,000,000.....Deng
$7,000,000.......Lou Williams
___________
$25,000,000
Summer 2017
$7,500,000....Aminu
$4,040,493....Will Barton
$945,126.......Thomspon (stretch waiver charge)
$0...................Landry
--------------
$12,485,619
versus
$17,190,000.....Deng
$7,000,000.......Lou Williams
--------------
$24,190,000
______________________
* They probably could have moved Thompson's partial guarantee ($2,650,000) for Cash + the second round pick that would have been used in the Hibbert trade if they really wanted to maximize cap space in Summer 2017 and Summer 2018.
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Early offense opportunities Lou will thrive in. He's already efficient based on analytic numbers. I think those numbers will be even better in Luke's offense.
I see him doing alot of the same things Barbosa did for GS. |
LeBron repeatedly yelled to "get ball to who he's guarding" while looking in Curry's direction. One time #Cavs did & JR hit 3. LeBron nodded
Replace Curry with Lou, who is 2 inches shorter and one of the worst defenders in the league, and that will be the offensive gameplan for all the well-coached teams we face. I can't see any scenario in the playoffs working out with Lou on the roster tbh. I don't hate Lou. I just despise his game.
Barbosa is one of the quickest players in the league, if not the quickest. He has the lateral speed to keep up with most players, so Lou will not be playing that role. Barbosa got playing time because he defended well enough to earn it. |
We aren't gonna make the finals (where your Lebron told everyone to pick on Curry example took place). We aren't even gonna make the playoffs.
But in the hypothetical scenario you describe, Lebron wouldn't have to tell his teammates to go at Lou. Because our whole backcourt rotation this year doesn't have 1 above average guard defender. All of our guards can be exposed for their lack of defense. It's not like there is some huge dropoff defensively between Lou and our other poor guard defenders.
Lou is quick. Probably not as quick as Barbosa. But in the open court I think he'll be just as efficient. Never really thought of Barbosa as a 2-way player. He's an offense first guy like Lou. |
Great... another crystal ball post. Please tell me what else that crystal ball of yours shows for the Lakers next season. I'm genuinely curious because you clearly have ALL the answers.
1) It's not a scenario that happens in the finals. It's the (bleep) NBA. Teams exploit mismatches on a nightly basis. That's how you win games. Luke is going for size and versatility for a reason. Even watching last season, they attacked Lou because he was the weakest link defensively.
2) Russell, Clarkson or even Calderon won't be exploited the way Lou will be. They have the clear height advantage. Defensive schemes will make them look better, and they also have the length and lateral speed to defend better. I hate this notion that guards are either lockdown defenders or they can't defend at all. Kyrie lit up EVERYONE, including Cory Joseph, who is widely regarded as one of the better defenders in the league. The best thing they can do is mitigate the damage, and that's where the team defense and personnel count for something. Did people not watch GT's video on Russell's defense, and how Nance didn't ICE properly? |
I know you passionately dislike Lou, but don't take that hostility out on me.
You don't need a crystal ball to know we aren't an above .500 team. You just have to compare our roster to the rest of the league. Or look at how comparable rosters (to ours) have fared in recent NBA seasons. It's fine to think we'll make the playoffs or NBA finals. But I'm just acknowledging it's a long shot to happen. I can't think of any evidence that makes me think we'll win 30 more games this year.
Of course NBA teams utilize mismatches. I just haven't seen anything on the defense end from guys like DLO, Clarkson, Calderon, Huertas. To make me think, opposing teams will go out of there way to single out Lou.
DLO's defense was good in SL. But I'm not sure if he'll be a + defender against NBA competition. Most 1st and 2nd year guys aren't. Like you said, the defense of our perimeter players will largely be judged by how they perform team-defense principles. I think Lou can do those principles.
Lou lacks size and length. But so did Barbosa compared to his GS teammates. That didn't stop Barbosa from contributing to GS's success. I think Lou can be a useful contributor for us this upcoming season.
And if opposing teams want to post up Lou, I'm cool with that. Post ups aren't efficient plays from a PPP basis. |
Isn't that what people said about the Jazz or Blazers prior to last season? What happened there? How did those teams beat the expectations? Oh, now I remember... coaching happened. Negativity is a killer on these forums. I've not seen a fanbase go so vehemently against their team or players. Good thing there's a receipts department.
I won't bother arguing the rest. Lou has to not be a net negative on defense for him to be useful off the bench next season. Not sure if Luke will tolerate him if Bud and Casey weren't able to find a suitable place for him. |
Coaching did help Utah and Blazers overachieve. Neither team were 14th or 15th in the WC for 3 straight years. Portland had a legit allstar in Lillard who already showed he can elevate his already dominant play to another level (series-clinching, game winner against Houston). And Utah had a core that had been together longer then our current young core (and still didn't make the playoffs).
But you're right. Coaching can help teams exceed expectations. But turning a 17 win team into an above .500 team in 1 season, without an all star on the roster is a tough task for any coach. Maybe if we had more than 1 league average starter on the roster I could buy into playoff expectations. But as it stands now, so many of our young players have to take major leaps forward. It's tough for me to buy into a playoff birth this season.
Not rooting against our players. I think by keeping expectations low, it prevents P&M when the season starts. Be it towards the players or the coaching staff. If we improve this season, then I could see playoffs being in the cards in the 2017-2018 season. But ALOT of things have to go right first in the 2016-2017 season. Good health, young core developing faster than their draft peers, etc.
If the Lakers exceed my expectations. I'll be happy. It's not like I want us to have a bad season.
Having low expectations exceeded is a much better alternative in my book than building expectations too high and being disappointed. |
Fair enough.
It's worth noting Lillard didn't make the all-star game this time around, so the Blazers technically had zero all-stars. They lost 4 of their starters and were projected to be in the lottery. That McCollum emerged and played as well as he did is a testament to not just Terry Stotts, but also their player development staff. The result was them going further than they did last season, which is incredible when you think about it. Batum, Lopez, Matthews, Afflalo are all starting caliber, so I'm not sure what you mean by league average here. The Blazers had the better outcome without those "league average" starters. Fit and chemistry are more important than talent in this particular case.
The Jazz had injury woes and had to start the likes of Shelvin Mack. What kept them cohesive despite their injury woes was their defensive strategy. Snyder is a heck of a coach and he overachieved with that team. Impressive when considering Favors and Gobert were out for a good chunk. |
I think we understand each other's POV. We're just varying in degrees.
Stotts, POR player development staff, and Snyder enabled POR and UTA overachieve.
And I think Luke can definitely add 10-15 wins to our record compared to last year. You just think he can improve our record even more.
We both acknowledge Lou is a flawed player who struggles defensively and shouldn't start. You just think he shouldn't even be used as a role player and I do.
We both want our Lakers to get better and compete ASAP. So there's a lot of common ground. |
It's all good Kikanga. The posts about the Lakers being the same team again, when all the signs point to the contrary are a little depressing. I wouldn't say the playoffs are completely out of the picture, but well coached teams have a way of surprising people. Russell is actually being told to make mistakes, told to commit turnovers, which is what should have happened last season.
I strongly believe talent emerges when there is a talent vacuum. It's what happened with McCollum, Aminu, Plumlee and Crabbe in Portland, but they were coached the right way, and I think the same will happen here. Black wasn't given a fighters chance last season, so I'm looking for him to emerge as well. He had games where he changed the complexity of the defense. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Bard207 wrote: | I agree that there is a roster imbalance, but the FO didn't think so when bringing in backcourt players.
Clarkson and Nick Young were with the team for the 2014 - 2015 season and the FO should have had enough of an opportunity to evaluate their strengths and weaknesses.
D Russell was the #2 pick in the 2015 draft and the FO should have been able to make a reasonable projection on what he could and couldn't do in his first few seasons in the league.
They signed Lou after the earlier moves of bringing in Young, Clarkson and Russell. This Summer, they took in Calderon because he had some draft picks attached and brought back Huertas.
The team was at or near the bottom on defense for the 2014 - 2015 season. The team was at or near the bottom on defense for the 2015 - 2016 season. There should be some improvement due to better coaching, but the improvement might be better and faster if at least one of the backcourt players brought in over the past few years would be a something of a defensive stalwart. |
Yeah this is one of the criticisms of the front office that is actually fair. Their FA targets have been heavy on historical box score production and / or reputation and light on stuff measured by more advanced metrics. Maybe from a dollar perspective he was a value signing that was brought in to bring in some scoring in Byron's toilet clogged offense and hopefully lead to some wins, but that's a bit short sighted. Contrast that with Portland's signing of Aminu (who many were calling an overpay at that time) which looks far far better now at only slightly more per year. |
I think Oshley just scooped the league on Aminu. He was on a min deal in Dallas and was bad enough offensively that most had him in the second wave. Dallas caught sleeping again.
It seemed Lou was more of an asset grab when plans A and B didn't work. Byron just managed the redundancy at guard as badly as you possibly could. Strong tank move. Luke is going to leverage Lou as the third attack guard in a way that produces results. But we're still getting hammered defensively at guard because there's a huge gap. They drafted Brown in the hopes they could develop him into the 3&D role but his time is drawing short to prove he's worth the longer term investment of time.
You could make a case that if it netted you a top flight talent that balanced the roster dealing Jordan and keeping Lou as a 'poor man' in that role makes more sense. Jordan's contract to talent ratio is a major chip. If they believe Jordan is too central to their plans looking to gain balance by dealing Lou feels like the next best option. Young isn't getting you anything. And if they do have their sights set on Westbrook, all the more reason to try to get the 3&D guy now.
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: |
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One other thing to note, trading for Thabo gets you his Bird Rights with a cap hold of $7.3M. I would take a little tinkering but if you were sending Lou out in trade that effectively allows you to keep a max slot while having the ability to negotiate a market deal with Thabo.
If you were lucky enough to land a player like Westbrook you would then be capped out and with Thabo's Bird Rights you could negotiate a front loaded deal that declined over time. That allows you to bring in a 3&D prospect to develop during that period.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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lifelong9er
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| I see him getting traded at some point. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | One other thing to note, trading for Thabo gets you his Bird Rights with a cap hold of $7.3M. I would take a little tinkering but if you were sending Lou out in trade that effectively allows you to keep a max slot while having the ability to negotiate a market deal with Thabo.
If you were lucky enough to land a player like Westbrook you would then be capped out and with Thabo's Bird Rights you could negotiate a front loaded deal that declined over time. That allows you to bring in a 3&D prospect to develop during that period. |
I would love to trade for Thabo. But didn't ATL pass on the Lou experience already?
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Dave20
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: |
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Lou will will be our Barbosa. He'll be just fine once regulated to his previous role as a 6th man.
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game.
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Dave20
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game. |
Clarkson is 24 and has shown he can be a solid passer while also being a good rebounder. Lou is known for chucking while drifting. Not a good comparison. |
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game. |
Clarkson is 24 and has shown he can be a solid passer while also being a good rebounder. Lou is known for chucking while drifting. Not a good comparison. |
I'm not comparing their skills. I'm comparing them being a ball stopper. It's applicable.
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | One other thing to note, trading for Thabo gets you his Bird Rights with a cap hold of $7.3M. I would take a little tinkering but if you were sending Lou out in trade that effectively allows you to keep a max slot while having the ability to negotiate a market deal with Thabo.
If you were lucky enough to land a player like Westbrook you would then be capped out and with Thabo's Bird Rights you could negotiate a front loaded deal that declined over time. That allows you to bring in a 3&D prospect to develop during that period. |
I would love to trade for Thabo. But didn't ATL pass on the Lou experience already? |
Maybe I missed the point but I never got the impression Atlanta wanted rid of Lou. They chose Teague as their one-way attacking guard and had drafted Schroder the year prior as the guy they would develop. They were going to use the generated cap space to balance out the roster and eliminate the redundancy. At that point they used the space to bring in Bazemore and Thabo on free agent deals.
Now they've done something similar at wing electing their primary in Bazemore while adding several developmental guys (Hardaway, Prince, Bembry) to go with Thabo and Korver. In fact, they traded their 2015 pick for Hardaway instead of just selecting Anderson or RHJ in an attempt to be ready for a transition faster.
Atlanta has half their rotation coming up in free agency in a year and will almost certainly not prioritize retaining the then 33 year old Thabo as the youth movement continues. They also seem to want to keep from bottoming out hence the Dwight deal. Maybe that's just conflict generated by your coach being your GM. Not sure.
If one jives with the idea that Thabo can be had, question becomes at what price. Lou fits a need for them both as a ball handling guard and a cost controlled contract as they sort through how to spend their 2017 $. He's also a local product which can be a marketing angle (sure to do that with Dwight). That doesn't mean they're interested or that Mitch wants to give up a bargain contract for a guy who can play.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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I can't remember hearing Luke talking about Lou Williams, I wonder what is plan is for him. He was pretty detailed about how JC, Ingram, LNJR, DLO ect. would fit in his new system.
That said, I am sure that Lou would be more effective than under Byron.
He would be the instant offense guy to insert when the young team is having problems putting the ball in the hoop. But his lack of size and lack of ability to switch on D does put him as the odd man out on this squad. Does anyone else have some comments from Luke on Lou?
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7922
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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There's enough quality that can be used instead of Lou that you just very clearly tell him what's expected of him and then do what's best for the team. If the ball sticks too much, tell him. If it stays that way, bench him.
He has the skills to pass. He has the shooting to play off-ball. He has enough on-ball skills if that's what you want.
At the moment, there's not a drastically better defender to take minutes away so he'll fit in just like everyone else. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
It is amazing that he was able to average 4 assists per game stopping the ball in Philly's ball movement offense.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game. |
Clarkson is 24 and has shown he can be a solid passer while also being a good rebounder. Lou is known for chucking while drifting. Not a good comparison. |
I know you won't, but you might actually want to fact check your hagiographies before you post them. Lou actually has higher per minute, per possession, and percent of assist rates.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game. |
Clarkson is 24 and has shown he can be a solid passer while also being a good rebounder. Lou is known for chucking while drifting. Not a good comparison. |
I know you won't, but you might actually want to fact check your hagiographies before you post them. Lou actually has higher per minute, per possession, and percent of assist rates. |
Lou had a 99.6 offensive rating last season. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game. |
Clarkson is 24 and has shown he can be a solid passer while also being a good rebounder. Lou is known for chucking while drifting. Not a good comparison. |
I know you won't, but you might actually want to fact check your hagiographies before you post them. Lou actually has higher per minute, per possession, and percent of assist rates. |
Lou had a 99.6 offensive rating last season. |
Not sure what that had to do with the point we were discussing.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54570
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| Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | pio2u wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | | Lou will give us a good game once every 7 games, but most of the time he's going to be a lousy defender and stop ball movement. |
Sure in Byron's system, just as Clarkson, Kobe and Randle stopped ball movement. |
Lou stopped ball movement in every system. He played the same way in TOR, PHI, ATL, and the Lakers. He's not going to change now at 30. |
To be fair, JC did the exact same thing all last season in large stretches of a game. |
Clarkson is 24 and has shown he can be a solid passer while also being a good rebounder. Lou is known for chucking while drifting. Not a good comparison. |
I know you won't, but you might actually want to fact check your hagiographies before you post them. Lou actually has higher per minute, per possession, and percent of assist rates. |
Lou had a 99.6 offensive rating last season. |
Not sure what that had to do with the point we were discussing. |
Not much; Just interjecting something positive about Lou's game. He has his flaws but he has some good qualities too. |
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