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KindCrippler2000
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 Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we have any idea about how Luke philosophically thinks about rookies/young players. Phil Jax was notorious for hating rookies; Popovich had similar disdain (since Kerr is from both branches and was Luke's mentor). |
Actually we kind of do. Luke said he expects Ingram and Zubac to be immediate contributors, which is what many others also feel. It will be tricky balancing out the minutes for those guys, but I have a feeling they will emerge. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we have any idea about how Luke philosophically thinks about rookies/young players. Phil Jax was notorious for hating rookies; Popovich had similar disdain (since Kerr is from both branches and was Luke's mentor). |
Actually we kind of do. Luke said he expects Ingram and Zubac to be immediate contributors, which is what many others also feel. It will be tricky balancing out the minutes for those guys, but I have a feeling they will emerge. |
Sure, but that's borne out of having to play them.
Sometimes coaches will fall into the habit of going with more established veterans, i.e. probably why Luke wanted Moz/Deng.
I don't think Luke will throw Ingram out there for 35 mpg (like Ben Simmons will). I hope that he will handle Ingram carefully as we are in no rush. (same with Zubac).
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KeepItRealOrElse
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| I actually, do. It would definitely make a point, beating them |
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we have any idea about how Luke philosophically thinks about rookies/young players. Phil Jax was notorious for hating rookies; Popovich had similar disdain (since Kerr is from both branches and was Luke's mentor). |
Actually we kind of do. Luke said he expects Ingram and Zubac to be immediate contributors, which is what many others also feel. It will be tricky balancing out the minutes for those guys, but I have a feeling they will emerge. |
Luke is most definitely his own man. Was listening to him today on the The Big Podcast with Shaq and he seems to have taken bits and pieces from Phil and Kerr (and Pop indirectly) as well as Lute Olsen and even his dad. I don't think he'll try to recreate the triangle or GSW offense, but rather establish his own culture by pulling from his various influences. Not sure what that will look like, but his head seems like it's in the right place imo. He also spoke very highly of our young core, so one can imagine that they've already hit it off well. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:14 am Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | Luke is most definitely his own man. Was listening to him today on the The Big Podcast with Shaq and he seems to have taken bits and pieces from Phil and Kerr (and Pop indirectly) as well as Lute Olsen and even his dad. I don't think he'll try to recreate the triangle or GSW offense, but rather establish his own culture by pulling from his various influences. Not sure what that will look like, but his head seems like it's in the right place imo. He also spoke very highly of our young core, so one can imagine that they've already hit it off well. |
I think he will start Deng/Moz, and the 3 incumbent Lakers starters (DLO/JC/Jules) as the safest starting group from day 1.
Now, not sure if this will be the starting group at the end of the year. No question Luke thinks highly of Ingram/Zubac, but with Deng/Moz we have a chance to develop them right with rushing it.
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | Luke is most definitely his own man. Was listening to him today on the The Big Podcast with Shaq and he seems to have taken bits and pieces from Phil and Kerr (and Pop indirectly) as well as Lute Olsen and even his dad. I don't think he'll try to recreate the triangle or GSW offense, but rather establish his own culture by pulling from his various influences. Not sure what that will look like, but his head seems like it's in the right place imo. He also spoke very highly of our young core, so one can imagine that they've already hit it off well. |
I think he will start Deng/Moz, and the 3 incumbent Lakers starters (DLO/JC/Jules) as the safest starting group from day 1.
Now, not sure if this will be the starting group at the end of the year. No question Luke thinks highly of Ingram/Zubac, but with Deng/Moz we have a chance to develop them right with rushing it. |
I don't mind who starts. It's more important that players and coach are in good rapport. We saw last year how Byron's rocky relation with the youngsters cast a sh*tty vibe over the season.
I get the sense Luke is willing to give Ingram/Zubac plenty of opportunities to prove themselves. Seems like more of a big picture guy than Scott. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:20 am Post subject: |
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| The Grind wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Grind wrote: | | Luke is most definitely his own man. Was listening to him today on the The Big Podcast with Shaq and he seems to have taken bits and pieces from Phil and Kerr (and Pop indirectly) as well as Lute Olsen and even his dad. I don't think he'll try to recreate the triangle or GSW offense, but rather establish his own culture by pulling from his various influences. Not sure what that will look like, but his head seems like it's in the right place imo. He also spoke very highly of our young core, so one can imagine that they've already hit it off well. |
I think he will start Deng/Moz, and the 3 incumbent Lakers starters (DLO/JC/Jules) as the safest starting group from day 1.
Now, not sure if this will be the starting group at the end of the year. No question Luke thinks highly of Ingram/Zubac, but with Deng/Moz we have a chance to develop them right with rushing it. |
I don't mind who starts. It's more important that players and coach are in good rapport. We saw last year how Byron's relation with the youngsters cast a sh*tty vibe over the season.
I get the sense Luke is willing to give Ingram/Zubac plenty of opportunities to prove themselves. Seems like more of a big picture guy than Scott. |
No doubt. I don't see him with his temperament and style, jerking around guys like Byron did.
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we have any idea about how Luke philosophically thinks about rookies/young players. Phil Jax was notorious for hating rookies; Popovich had similar disdain (since Kerr is from both branches and was Luke's mentor). |
Actually we kind of do. Luke said he expects Ingram and Zubac to be immediate contributors, which is what many others also feel. It will be tricky balancing out the minutes for those guys, but I have a feeling they will emerge. |
Sure, but that's borne out of having to play them.
Sometimes coaches will fall into the habit of going with more established veterans, i.e. probably why Luke wanted Moz/Deng.
I don't think Luke will throw Ingram out there for 35 mpg (like Ben Simmons will). I hope that he will handle Ingram carefully as we are in no rush. (same with Zubac). |
Well, if they can play, they can play. I think that's the point of what he said. It's not so much about rushing them as it is letting them learn the ropes quickly, which they are capable of doing. Luke said Ingram doesn't play a like a rookie and has a feel that you can't teach. Mitch was surprised at how quickly Zubac acclimated to the SL game with only one practice under his belt. Unlike Phil, Luke been giving his rookies high praise from the beginning. His philosophy is vastly different IMO.
To me, Deng and Mozgov were hired to be mentors to those guys moreso than big contributors next season. Deng is on the latter end of his prime and Mozgov is coming off a knee issue. They are there to provide that security blanket in the beginning, but I have a feeling Ingram and Zubac will be more NBA ready than people think. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:24 am Post subject: |
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Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Deng/Mozzy starting. FO will be under pressure to justify their signings from the onset. Ingram should get 26-28mpg at various positions. I don't see Zubac playing as much this first year, though I'm hopeful in 2-3 years he will be our starting C.
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vakobe
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:31 am Post subject: |
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| vakobe wrote: | | This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
We've got some young pups (pun intended) in here.
They don't know it's always:
Buck Foston...Buck Foston...
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panamaniac
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| vakobe wrote: | | This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
Timberwolves have a nice young core. If we can't compete for a championship, let's at least try to establish our young core as the best in the league. That seems like a nice/realistic goal for the next 2 years. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Sure, but I wouldn't be surprised to see Deng/Mozzy starting. FO will be under pressure to justify their signings from the onset. Ingram should get 26-28mpg at various positions. I don't see Zubac playing as much this first year, though I'm hopeful in 2-3 years he will be our starting C. |
From my understanding, Deng and Mozgov will be shoo-ins as starters, unless the injury bug hits them. However, I think Luke also talked about Ingram playing the 2,3 and 4 (when he gets stronger), so it's possible Deng and Ingram could be featured in some line-ups. I'd rather have them play together since their length will pose serious issues for teams.
At the center position, Black and Zubac backing up Mozgov is a good problem to have. Luke promised Black his "fair shot", but I think the amount of time he gets will be predicated on how he's able to space the floor. Zubac can already do that in the NBA setting, so it will be interesting to see whether he steals time from Black. I'm rooting for Black. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:46 am Post subject: |
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I see the Center spot (barring injuries) being something like this:
Moz: 25-26mpg
Black: 15-18mpg
Zubac/Nance/Randle: rest of minutes.
If Moz gets hurt:
Black: 25mpg
Zubac: 15mpg
Nance/Randle: Rest of minutes.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:48 am Post subject: |
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I just wouldn't get too concerned about this seeing being the penultimate make or break season for Ingram/Zubac. They will have a long and glorious Laker career.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 6:57 am Post subject: |
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I haven't lost any sleep about the TWolves. Maybe it's because they've always been a franchise that I've never feared or hated before.
If there is one team I want this young group of players to whoop on right now, it's still the Clippers.
Let's reclaim LA. |
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governator
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we have any idea about how Luke philosophically thinks about rookies/young players. Phil Jax was notorious for hating rookies; Popovich had similar disdain (since Kerr is from both branches and was Luke's mentor). |
Actually we kind of do. Luke said he expects Ingram and Zubac to be immediate contributors, which is what many others also feel. It will be tricky balancing out the minutes for those guys, but I have a feeling they will emerge. |
Sure, but that's borne out of having to play them.
Sometimes coaches will fall into the habit of going with more established veterans, i.e. probably why Luke wanted Moz/Deng.
I don't think Luke will throw Ingram out there for 35 mpg (like Ben Simmons will). I hope that he will handle Ingram carefully as we are in no rush. (same with Zubac). |
Well, if they can play, they can play. I think that's the point of what he said. It's not so much about rushing them as it is letting them learn the ropes quickly, which they are capable of doing. Luke said Ingram doesn't play a like a rookie and has a feel that you can't teach. Mitch was surprised at how quickly Zubac acclimated to the SL game with only one practice under his belt. Unlike Phil, Luke been giving his rookies high praise from the beginning. His philosophy is vastly different IMO.
To me, Deng and Mozgov were hired to be mentors to those guys moreso than big contributors next season. Deng is on the latter end of his prime and Mozgov is coming off a knee issue. They are there to provide that security blanket in the beginning, but I have a feeling Ingram and Zubac will be more NBA ready than people think. |
We'll sign you to start but once the young guys are ready, you going to the bench to back them up, even if it's this season. And you'll mentor them for the next couple years. This is why we will pay premium for your services |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I don't think we have any idea about how Luke philosophically thinks about rookies/young players. Phil Jax was notorious for hating rookies; Popovich had similar disdain (since Kerr is from both branches and was Luke's mentor). |
Actually we kind of do. Luke said he expects Ingram and Zubac to be immediate contributors, which is what many others also feel. It will be tricky balancing out the minutes for those guys, but I have a feeling they will emerge. |
Sure, but that's borne out of having to play them.
Sometimes coaches will fall into the habit of going with more established veterans, i.e. probably why Luke wanted Moz/Deng.
I don't think Luke will throw Ingram out there for 35 mpg (like Ben Simmons will). I hope that he will handle Ingram carefully as we are in no rush. (same with Zubac). |
Well, if they can play, they can play. I think that's the point of what he said. It's not so much about rushing them as it is letting them learn the ropes quickly, which they are capable of doing. Luke said Ingram doesn't play a like a rookie and has a feel that you can't teach. Mitch was surprised at how quickly Zubac acclimated to the SL game with only one practice under his belt. Unlike Phil, Luke been giving his rookies high praise from the beginning. His philosophy is vastly different IMO.
To me, Deng and Mozgov were hired to be mentors to those guys moreso than big contributors next season. Deng is on the latter end of his prime and Mozgov is coming off a knee issue. They are there to provide that security blanket in the beginning, but I have a feeling Ingram and Zubac will be more NBA ready than people think. |
We'll sign you to start but once the young guys are ready, you going to the bench to back them up, even if it's this season. And you'll mentor them for the next couple years. This is why we will pay premium for your services |
Pretty much. Because the contracts don't have team options (reportedly), you can add: If you get benched, you'll still be getting paid. If you are unhappy, just let us know and we'll trade you. 
Though I doubt they'll be unhappy in Luke's share happy offense. Deng is at the stage where he prefers long term security over proving himself. He got his due for his services in Chicago and Miami. Mozgov won't be unhappy if he plays 17-25 min a game (25 is his career high for reference). |
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nash
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:14 am Post subject: |
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| vakobe wrote: | | This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
We old timers have a tough time finding ways to be happy about an overachieving season where we may win 38 games to finish with a better record than TW  |
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22
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:17 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | vakobe wrote: | | This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
We've got some young pups (pun intended) in here.
They don't know it's always:
Buck Foston...Buck Foston... |
nah, you guys are just confused at my point.
Just because I want us to beat the wolves doesn't mean I have any less disdain for any other team, especially that trash from Beantown. I even said in the OP I want to beat EVERY team.
But for those confused, wake up. We're not championship ready right now, and you don't go from where we're at to contenders right away. You gotta prove yourself one step at a time. The first step for us is to prove we are the best of the young teams. Then prove we can beat the big boys, then prove we ARE the big boys. I expect this to take a few years, and I expect the Wolves to be one of the obstacles perhaps both now AND the future. |
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22
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| Judah wrote: | It seems almost inevitable that a budding rivalry will develop because both franchises are in eerily similar situations. These are two up and coming teams with intriguing young talent (could be multiple All-Stars from both teams) that needs to be molded. Those games will probably be some of the most entertaining that we'll see all season, and for years to come.
D-LO vs Dunn
Clarkson vs Lavine
Ingram vs Wiggins
Randle/Nance vs Dieng
Zubac vs KAT
Luke vs Thibs
It's tantalizing to even think about all the battles they'll have.
Luke really seems to have a very subtle, quiet, competitive fire to him that I didn't realize until the last few months, reading things that were written about him and listening to comments he's made ever since he took over. A team adopts the personality of their coach, especially if it's a team of young players. That same competitive fire that Luke has is central to the kind of culture he's establishing (please don't forget that he was with Kerr from the beginning, so he played a significant role in establishing GS's culture). I think it's pretty safe to say that the team will be listening to all of the praise that Minny's young core is getting and they'll be motivated by it. They'll be ready to knock their heads off every single time they face them. You can count on that. |
THIS |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:21 am Post subject: |
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We need to find a way beat these teams in the bottom 5 of the West:
Suns
Nuggets
Kings
Pels
TWolves.
Utah has graduated iMO to the playoff class.
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Ziggy
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | vakobe wrote: | | This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
We old timers have a tough time finding ways to be happy about an overachieving season where we may win 38 games to finish with a better record than TW |
Eh. Everyone claims to be a "lifelong fan" once the team starts winning. The true fans roll with the punches. For me the journey is one of the most fun aspects of being a fan. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Ziggy wrote: | | nash wrote: | | vakobe wrote: | | This is truly a low point in Laker history. We've gone from competing for championships to trying to conjure up a rivalry with the Timberwolves. |
We old timers have a tough time finding ways to be happy about an overachieving season where we may win 38 games to finish with a better record than TW |
Eh. Everyone claims to be a "lifelong fan" once the team starts winning. The true fans roll with the punches. For me the journey is one of the most fun aspects of being a fan. |
I love following the draft, so the past couple of years have been exciting to be a Laker fan in that regard. When we were 3peating, the draft was hard to get excited about.
Go Lakeshow!!!!!!!
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Darth Los Angeles
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| Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: |
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We have so many other things to work on first...
The Timberwolves will be good. So will we.
This drive is going to be different for me... The NBA is full of little bitty babies. Players could be my kids. It's hard to have an issue with kids who talk, walk, and carry themselves the right way.
KAT, Wiggins, and Dunn are all likable kids. I've seen no evidence of swagg or other "look at me" wastes of time. They will be really good soon.
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