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22 Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Apr 2013 Posts: 17063
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Posted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:30 pm Post subject: Surprise, Phil Jackson takes another shot at modern players |
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http://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/surprise-phil-jackson-takes-another-shot-at-modern-players/
Quote: | Phil Jackson still insists the Triangle is basketball's best offensive system. It worked for him on historic levels back in the 90s and the aughts when he was coaching the Chicago Bulls and Los Angeles Lakers. But those were the good ole days when men were men and players knew how to, you know, play basketball.
This idea that players today aren't as good as those of yesteryear, that they aren't as tough or skilled, is some pretty tired rhetoric. But guys like Jackson still love to say it. In fact, Jackson says this is why the Triangle hasn't worked so well for the Knicks -- because today's players "simply lack the skills to play" in such a system.
via ESPN wrote: | In a December interview with Charley Rosen published Friday on Today's Fastbreak, Phil Jackson bemoans the lack of fundamental skills in today's NBA and how they hurt the Knicks' attempts to run the triangle offense. "Today's players simply lack the skills to play the triangle. They know how to play one-on-one, catch-and-shoot, and they've mastered crossover dribbles, spins, playing off of screens and step-back shots. They don't know how to execute things like inside-reverse pivots and other basic footwork. They have no sense of timing or organization. They don't really know how to play five-on-five basketball," he said. The Knicks will continue to run the triangle this season. Sounds like new coach Jeff Hornacek will have plenty of teaching to do. |
Jackson isn't the only coach with strong beliefs about his preferred system or style of play. Gregg Popovich hates the 3-point shot, says he finds it gimmicky, but he also makes sure his team is one of the best at taking advantage of the most important shot in modern basketball. Upon accepting the Warriors' job, Steve Kerr was going to play a more traditional style of basketball until David Lee got hurt, Draymond Green stepped in, and the Warriors became the standard for small-ball excellence.
In other words, adaptability is key.
Jackson isn't budging, and of course when his offense doesn't work in the modern game it's because the players aren't skilled enough. While Jackson isn't coaching anymore, he's basically coaching from afar. He's building a team and then asking the coach to run a certain offensive system. While there were other problems outside of the Xs and Os with Derek Fisher, Jackson was upset when Fisher tried to go with a little more pick-and-roll than straight Triangle action.
Phil wants this done in a very specific way, almost stubbornly trying to prove it was the system and not just Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant that was responsible for his historic success.
Some of the best offensive systems of today (Kerr's, Pop's, Mike D'Antoni's) have all stolen elements of the Triangle and found a way to use them in a more modern way. That's the adaptability people talk about with successful coaches today. Instead, Jackson seems intent on just saying players don't have the right skills to make it work. Is it that players don't have the right skills or the game has evolved? Is it that players don't have the right skills or is it that he's not putting together the right team?
The NBA's skill level is at an all-time high, as is the strategy. If that doesn't fit the Triangle in Phil's mind, is it the players or the system that don't fit for him? At what point do you adapt or just get better at bringing in players?
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23744
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 10:17 am Post subject: |
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The league has enough talent, his team just doesn't. He's used to running the triangle with teams like the Warriors that are flat out better than everyone else. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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"Get off my lawn" - Phil Jackson _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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defense Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jan 2010 Posts: 39322
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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"In a December interview with Charley Rosen published Friday on Today's Fastbreak, Phil Jackson bemoans the lack of fundamental skills in today's NBA and how they hurt the Knicks' attempts to run the triangle offense. "Today's players simply lack the skills to play the triangle. They know how to play one-on-one, catch-and-shoot, and they've mastered crossover dribbles, spins, playing off of screens and step-back shots. They don't know how to execute things like inside-reverse pivots and other basic footwork. They have no sense of timing or organization. They don't really know how to play five-on-five basketball," he said. The Knicks will continue to run the triangle this season. Sounds like new coach Jeff Hornacek will have plenty of teaching to do."
Phil has always been a dick but I agree with all of this in regards to the players lacking basic fundamentals. Look at the Lakers most talented young player Russell. He has loads of skill but seems to struggle with something as basic as getting to the middle of the floor on fast breaks or sliding a bit when handling the ball off the pick and roll in order to give himself a little more room to get the pass through and make it more receivable. Consider that he is one of the more skilled young guys and you can see why guys struggle with organization, basic fundamentals and team ball that doesn't consist of screen and roll/pop.
Don't even get me started on defensive fundamentals
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fiendishoc Star Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 8488 Location: The (real) short corner
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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The NY Post's headline summed it up perfectly:
Phil Jackson: Today's NBAers too inept to run triangle, so let's run triangle |
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Theseus Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2007 Posts: 13855
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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Its weird how these people theorize that the league is always getting worse compared to their generation of relevance |
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GoldenThroat Moderator
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 37474
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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fiendishoc wrote: | The NY Post's headline summed it up perfectly:
Phil Jackson: Today's NBAers too inept to run triangle, so let's run triangle |
lol
All of this was so predictable. |
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27 Star Player
Joined: 26 Sep 2010 Posts: 4439 Location: Los Angeles, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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love the guy, but the triangle was dying out and with Kobe/Gasol and flatlined in 2011. Wish he was better at adapting, but this insisting of running the triangle is the reason I hope he is anywhere but with the Lakers. Good Luck. |
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panamaniac Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011 Posts: 11238 Location: PTY
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Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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In a way, Phil is right. But OTOH, there have been few players adept at playing the triangle, and Phil seems to have coached all of them. Maybe it's just time he changed his scheme. |
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nickuku Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2010 Posts: 7844 Location: Orange County
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:06 am Post subject: |
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The Grind wrote: | In a way, Phil is right. But OTOH, there have been few players adept at playing the triangle, and Phil seems to have coached all of them. Maybe it's just time he changed his scheme. |
Maybe cuz Phil is the only one that incoporates all of the triangle? _________________ Don't let perfect be the enemy of good |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 10:51 am Post subject: |
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The triangle has never been successful without one of the best players in the game running it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Snipes Star Player
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 6000
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Adapt or die Phil.. |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | The triangle has never been successful without one of the best players in the game running it. |
Those guys never won without running it either. Maybe it takes both the system and superb players. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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non-player zealot wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | The triangle has never been successful without one of the best players in the game running it. |
Those guys never won without running it either. Maybe it takes both the system and superb players. |
Shaq did. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Vic5150 Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 1853
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | The triangle has never been successful without one of the best players in the game running it. |
Those guys never won without running it either. Maybe it takes both the system and superb players. |
Shaq did. |
Horry too. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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Vic5150 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | The triangle has never been successful without one of the best players in the game running it. |
Those guys never won without running it either. Maybe it takes both the system and superb players. |
Shaq did. |
Horry too. |
Add Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, AC Green to the list of Triangle winners who also got rings in other systems |
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non-player zealot Franchise Player
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Posts: 21365
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Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:50 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | Vic5150 wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | non-player zealot wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | The triangle has never been successful without one of the best players in the game running it. |
Those guys never won without running it either. Maybe it takes both the system and superb players. |
Shaq did. |
Horry too. |
Add Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, AC Green to the list of Triangle winners who also got rings in other systems |
I'm talking about what VLF referred to as "best players in the game", by which I perhaps incorrectly assumed he meant superstars (i.e. Shaq, Kobe, Mike, and maybe Pippen and even he I would hesitate to group with those other 3).
1) I forgot Shaq, but in that season, he was a bit older and he won that title under one of the other 2 contemporary coaching titans. I'm too distressed over forgetting that in lieu of Phil that he was forced to win a title under Pat Riley. That's not a hardship. Pat's on Phil's echelon, not Brian Hill's.
2) I'll give him Dennis as "one of the best players in the sport" and I'm only going to do that to block any attempt for VLF to say he didn't necessarily imply only the 1A type superstars and that he left room for the secondary and tertiary stars. In fairness, those Pistons were less of a superstar dominant title team than the other repeat champions.
3) Shaq, Kobe, Jordan didn't win titles (plural, even) in their youthful/superstar seasons before Phil. Twelve among them. That says a lot about that combination of penultimate superstars in their primes + Phil coaching the tri, with Tex for many of those years, to boot. _________________ GOAT MAGIC REEL
SEDALE TRIBUTE
EDDIE DONX! |
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