New website allows white people to offer reparations directly to People of Color
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:15 pm    Post subject:

DuncanIdaho wrote:
governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
governator wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
governator wrote:
I think descendant of slaves do have an argument for reparation. It's no difference than Jewish reparation by German government and Korean reparation by Japanese government.
The reparation discussion shouldn't be between black citizens and white citizens of USA, it should be between US government and descendants of slaves (they have to come up with methods to identify and to quantify)


Slavery goes back before there was even was a United States, and involved many different races as well all over the world. At what point do you draw the line? Its pointless punishing future generations for the sins of the past.


That's between the US government and descendants of US slaves to decide. Slaves prior/outside of US are not in the discussion. It's not about punishing future generations or current generations who benefit from slaves' work, it's about reparation from works that was already performed


The US government isn't some faceless organization. Its made up of the American taxpayers who will ultimately pay for the burden. Why should I pay for something that my relatives had no part in. If you are going to start punishing future generations for the past sins, you could go all the way since the dawn of man.


Because you and me benefitted from the unpaid/underpaid works of the US slaves. This is just about US government and US slaves descendant, not sure what you mean by go all the way since the dawn of man.
US slavery is not some abstract concept, it can be quantified regarding how much unpaid/under paid work was done and it can be traced regarding who was the slaves and who is the descendants now. The how part (how many lineage percentage, how much reparation) is for US government to decide.


No, I didn't. 1-2% of rich white southern plantation owners benefitted. The southern public didn't. My ancestors came here in the early 1900's and never set foot in the south.


You don't have to benefit directly...slaves were the only thing allowing the south to keep pace with the north for a time. And they helped to develop so much of the south's infrastructure. Though I get your point.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:43 pm    Post subject:

D'Alphalo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Not to mention all the people that committed the deed are buried 6 feet under. Why punish future generations? What future generations need to do is learn from the mistakes of their ancestors and tell the story of why it was wrong.


Though of course one thing people forget is that African Americans were never paid for the billions of dollars in real value they added to the colonies and US through their labor. Now how do you repay that without punishing current generations? Beats me...


There is no way to repay them....because they are dead.
There are lots of races of people throughout the history of mankind that were enslaved to do menial tasks for a king, emperor or landowner. It sucks, but all we can do is to learn from the past and resolve never to put people in future generations from doing that again.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:18 am    Post subject:

Don't black people have more rights then whites now? I'm not black or white and this is a serious question?

I know a master pipe fitter and he tells me if you are not black it is very tough to get in. I'm sorry but that is messed up , especially if the intention is to make up for something that happened decades ago and beyond.

With this logic. The U.S. should give the southwest back to the Mexicans. Then in turn the Mexicans should give it back to the natives. This could go on forever?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:22 am    Post subject:

Why do black people call themselves African American? Don't they realize there were black "Indian" tribes (aboriginals) already here. Not all black people were brought here on slave ships. In fact comparably it is probably a small percentage.

It just goes to show how uneducated and out of touch people are from reality.

Would anyone else care to elaborate on this.

There is much evidence to support this such as the Olmec statues. Those is black faces.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:01 am    Post subject:

Tony Anapolis wrote:
Don't black people have more rights then whites now? I'm not black or white and this is a serious question?

I know a master pipe fitter and he tells me if you are not black it is very tough to get in. I'm sorry but that is messed up , especially if the intention is to make up for something that happened decades ago and beyond.

With this logic. The U.S. should give the southwest back to the Mexicans. Then in turn the Mexicans should give it back to the natives. This could go on forever?


I wouldn't say they have more rights, they have the same rights as anyone else.

But yeah, to your latter point, where and how does one draw the line, and then, at what point do we say, ok enough is enough, your people as a whole has been "made whole" now? Or do we ever say that?

And then, as a person that is bi-racial (asian/hispanic), I was thinking about this too. My brother has 2 kids, he married a white girl. So the kids are 1/2 white, 1/4 asian, 1/4 hispanic. Now let's say instead of being 1/4 hispanic, we were 1/4 black.

What would those kids be entitled to? And would they have to put in as much, more, or less than they take out? Or would we say, wait, you're twice as much white as you are black so you only have to contribute half as much to the pot as the pure white folks and you only get to take back 1/4 of your portion of the reparations?

And then, if they didn't like that, what would stop them from saying they're 1/2 black to get a greater share? And who would verify that and how?

And then, a friend of mine is a first generation African-American (first generation born here), his parents moved here in the 80s from Kenya, and his last name is African. Does he get the same or less as say, Kevin Durant?

There's nothing wrong with what this lady did, I just don't agree with it and wouldn't contribute a single penny to it. Plus, I wouldn't know how much. I'm not white but I'm also not black.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:46 pm    Post subject:

When an entity robs a select group of citizens of a soveirgn declared free society the ability to participate in the declared freedom to be made available to citizens of that free society, a claim for reparations will be made. Reparations are not "back pay". Reparations are a means to right a wrong. Generally that wrong, when done to a select group within a free society, is a restriction upon the ability to either generate, or pass on , wealth from one generation to the next for a select group within that declared free society. When the Nazi's robbed Jewish citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When the Americans robbed Japanese citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When Americans robbed African decenders of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were NOT REQUESTED and NOT paid. Instead, the African Descenders REQUESTED the ability to generate their own wealth by being provided a set aside for land that they could cultivate and then BUY from the government at a fair price and THAT REQUEST was granted by a sitting President of the United States. Unlike the Jews and the Japanese, monies weren't requested. The request was simply the ability to generate their own wealth and be able to pass it forward to further generations. The reason they requested a set aside of lands that were separated is because they deemed the inherent prejudices of the Whites in the south at that time would not allow for a realistic opportunity to create the conditions necessary to cultivate success. History has proven those 12 ministers who made the request that President Lincoln agreed to to be extraordinarily accurate.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:48 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
D'Alphalo wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Not to mention all the people that committed the deed are buried 6 feet under. Why punish future generations? What future generations need to do is learn from the mistakes of their ancestors and tell the story of why it was wrong.


Though of course one thing people forget is that African Americans were never paid for the billions of dollars in real value they added to the colonies and US through their labor. Now how do you repay that without punishing current generations? Beats me...


There is no way to repay them....because they are dead.
There are lots of races of people throughout the history of mankind that were enslaved to do menial tasks for a king, emperor or landowner. It sucks, but all we can do is to learn from the past and resolve never to put people in future generations from doing that again.


Good point, but I would guess that this keeps being discussed because the US became so powerful, and hence might be able to do something more than say the defunct baronial oligarchies of Rome might be able to do for the descendents of slighted Roman peasants from the 14th century.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:57 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
When an entity robs a select group of citizens of a soveirgn declared free society the ability to participate in the declared freedom to be made available to citizens of that free society, a claim for reparations will be made. Reparations are not "back pay". Reparations are a means to right a wrong. Generally that wrong, when done to a select group within a free society, is a restriction upon the ability to either generate, or pass on , wealth from one generation to the next for a select group within that declared free society. When the Nazi's robbed Jewish citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When the Americans robbed Japanese citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When Americans robbed African decenders of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were NOT REQUESTED and NOT paid. Instead, the African Descenders REQUESTED the ability to generate their own wealth by being provided a set aside for land that they could cultivate and then BUY from the government at a fair price and THAT REQUEST was granted by a sitting President of the United States. Unlike the Jews and the Japanese, monies weren't requested. The request was simply the ability to generate their own wealth and be able to pass it forward to further generations. The reason they requested a set aside of lands that were separated is because they deemed the inherent prejudices of the Whites in the south at that time would not allow for a realistic opportunity to create the conditions necessary to cultivate success. History has proven those 12 ministers who made the request that President Lincoln agreed to to be extraordinarily accurate.


Americans robbed Japanese-Americans (not Japanese citizens) if you're referring to the internment camps.

And it should be noted they offered reparations for the survivors. Not for the all subsequent descendants of those survivors in perpetuity.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:19 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
When an entity robs a select group of citizens of a soveirgn declared free society the ability to participate in the declared freedom to be made available to citizens of that free society, a claim for reparations will be made. Reparations are not "back pay". Reparations are a means to right a wrong. Generally that wrong, when done to a select group within a free society, is a restriction upon the ability to either generate, or pass on , wealth from one generation to the next for a select group within that declared free society. When the Nazi's robbed Jewish citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When the Americans robbed Japanese citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When Americans robbed African decenders of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were NOT REQUESTED and NOT paid. Instead, the African Descenders REQUESTED the ability to generate their own wealth by being provided a set aside for land that they could cultivate and then BUY from the government at a fair price and THAT REQUEST was granted by a sitting President of the United States. Unlike the Jews and the Japanese, monies weren't requested. The request was simply the ability to generate their own wealth and be able to pass it forward to further generations. The reason they requested a set aside of lands that were separated is because they deemed the inherent prejudices of the Whites in the south at that time would not allow for a realistic opportunity to create the conditions necessary to cultivate success. History has proven those 12 ministers who made the request that President Lincoln agreed to to be extraordinarily accurate.


Americans robbed Japanese-Americans (not Japanese citizens) if you're referring to the internment camps.

And it should be noted they offered reparations for the survivors. Not for the all subsequent descendants of those survivors in perpetuity.


There are no survivors of slavery. Let me repeat that for emphasis: There are no survivors of slavery. I'm not a historian of colonial and pre-Civil War America, but I don't believe reparations were ever afforded those slaves who lived to see freedom. Of course, countless others perished along the way.

No, the idea of reparations is to restore something, right? To right a wrong, as it were. If the original freed slaves (and the descendants of those who died during the horrific and lengthy period of slavery here in America) were never provided with reparations, the straw man you seem to be floating that current-day descendants are or were seeking reparations in perpetuity (i.e., their children and their children's children and so on ... all would be eligible for reparations) is way the (bleep) off the mark, IMO.

For the record, I don't have a personal interest in this subject. And I don't want to stoop to the point of blatantly contrasting atrocities. However, if you're descended from Japanese-Americans who experienced internment and were afforded reparations of any kind, you really shouldn't be expressing an opinion about something as sobering as slavery. We're talking about somewhere between 250 and 350 years of dehumanizing slavery. We're talking about as many as 20 - 25 million human souls (or more) who perished during that period. So let's just consider slowing the (bleep) down before we begin creating equivalencies that are ... again ... way - the - (bleep) - off - the - mark.

That's just my opinion ...
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject:

the association wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
When an entity robs a select group of citizens of a soveirgn declared free society the ability to participate in the declared freedom to be made available to citizens of that free society, a claim for reparations will be made. Reparations are not "back pay". Reparations are a means to right a wrong. Generally that wrong, when done to a select group within a free society, is a restriction upon the ability to either generate, or pass on , wealth from one generation to the next for a select group within that declared free society. When the Nazi's robbed Jewish citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When the Americans robbed Japanese citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When Americans robbed African decenders of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were NOT REQUESTED and NOT paid. Instead, the African Descenders REQUESTED the ability to generate their own wealth by being provided a set aside for land that they could cultivate and then BUY from the government at a fair price and THAT REQUEST was granted by a sitting President of the United States. Unlike the Jews and the Japanese, monies weren't requested. The request was simply the ability to generate their own wealth and be able to pass it forward to further generations. The reason they requested a set aside of lands that were separated is because they deemed the inherent prejudices of the Whites in the south at that time would not allow for a realistic opportunity to create the conditions necessary to cultivate success. History has proven those 12 ministers who made the request that President Lincoln agreed to to be extraordinarily accurate.


Americans robbed Japanese-Americans (not Japanese citizens) if you're referring to the internment camps.

And it should be noted they offered reparations for the survivors. Not for the all subsequent descendants of those survivors in perpetuity.


There are no survivors of slavery. Let me repeat that for emphasis: There are no survivors of slavery. I'm not a historian of colonial and pre-Civil War America, but I don't believe reparations were ever afforded those slaves who lived to see freedom. Of course, countless others perished along the way.

No, the idea of reparations is to restore something, right? To right a wrong, as it were. If the original freed slaves (and the descendants of those who died during the horrific and lengthy period of slavery here in America) were never provided with reparations, the straw man you seem to be floating that current-day descendants are or were seeking reparations in perpetuity (i.e., their children and their children's children and so on ... all would be eligible for reparations) is way the (bleep) off the mark, IMO.

For the record, I don't have a personal interest in this subject. And I don't want to stoop to the point of blatantly contrasting atrocities. However, if you're descended from Japanese-Americans who experienced internment and were afforded reparations of any kind, you really shouldn't be expressing an opinion about something as sobering as slavery. We're talking about somewhere between 250 and 350 years of dehumanizing slavery. We're talking about as many as 20 - 25 million human souls (or more) who perished during that period. So let's just consider slowing the (bleep) down before we begin creating equivalencies that are ... again ... way - the - (bleep) - off - the - mark.

That's just my opinion ...


I was clarifying a point. Did you read the quoted post?
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:54 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
the association wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
When an entity robs a select group of citizens of a soveirgn declared free society the ability to participate in the declared freedom to be made available to citizens of that free society, a claim for reparations will be made. Reparations are not "back pay". Reparations are a means to right a wrong. Generally that wrong, when done to a select group within a free society, is a restriction upon the ability to either generate, or pass on , wealth from one generation to the next for a select group within that declared free society. When the Nazi's robbed Jewish citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When the Americans robbed Japanese citizens of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were demanded and paid. When Americans robbed African decenders of the ability to generate and pass on wealth, thus enhancing the viability of their select group, reparations were NOT REQUESTED and NOT paid. Instead, the African Descenders REQUESTED the ability to generate their own wealth by being provided a set aside for land that they could cultivate and then BUY from the government at a fair price and THAT REQUEST was granted by a sitting President of the United States. Unlike the Jews and the Japanese, monies weren't requested. The request was simply the ability to generate their own wealth and be able to pass it forward to further generations. The reason they requested a set aside of lands that were separated is because they deemed the inherent prejudices of the Whites in the south at that time would not allow for a realistic opportunity to create the conditions necessary to cultivate success. History has proven those 12 ministers who made the request that President Lincoln agreed to to be extraordinarily accurate.


Americans robbed Japanese-Americans (not Japanese citizens) if you're referring to the internment camps.

And it should be noted they offered reparations for the survivors. Not for the all subsequent descendants of those survivors in perpetuity.


There are no survivors of slavery. Let me repeat that for emphasis: There are no survivors of slavery. I'm not a historian of colonial and pre-Civil War America, but I don't believe reparations were ever afforded those slaves who lived to see freedom. Of course, countless others perished along the way.

No, the idea of reparations is to restore something, right? To right a wrong, as it were. If the original freed slaves (and the descendants of those who died during the horrific and lengthy period of slavery here in America) were never provided with reparations, the straw man you seem to be floating that current-day descendants are or were seeking reparations in perpetuity (i.e., their children and their children's children and so on ... all would be eligible for reparations) is way the (bleep) off the mark, IMO.

For the record, I don't have a personal interest in this subject. And I don't want to stoop to the point of blatantly contrasting atrocities. However, if you're descended from Japanese-Americans who experienced internment and were afforded reparations of any kind, you really shouldn't be expressing an opinion about something as sobering as slavery. We're talking about somewhere between 250 and 350 years of dehumanizing slavery. We're talking about as many as 20 - 25 million human souls (or more) who perished during that period. So let's just consider slowing the (bleep) down before we begin creating equivalencies that are ... again ... way - the - (bleep) - off - the - mark.

That's just my opinion ...


I was clarifying a point. Did you read the quoted post?


Yes, I read the quoted post. Your point isn't clear (to me, at least), but it's also factually incorrect in any event. Over 1/3 of the 120,000 (or less) moved to internment camps in the 1940s were not even U.S. citizens, so the Japanese American clarification is off the mark. And further "clarifying the point" re: reparations in perpetuity isn't a helpful distortion because I've never seen anyone suggest that such a program is what's been sought by those whose lives have been and continue to be adversely affected to this very day by the residue of slavery. The concept of reparations has never been argued (to my knowledge) to include anything beyond a one-time restoration of deprived value or opportunity.

Regardless, the seriousness of the topic doesn't lend itself well to your tried-and-true ridicule of "political correctness" ... again, we're talking about 250 - 350 years of dehumanizing, unfathomable abuse inflicted on 20 - 25 million humans through no fault of their own. Unless your forebears (or mine) suffered under slavery in America, it's just one of those "shut the (bleep) up" topics when it comes to what's right and what's wrong ...
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:09 pm    Post subject:

If paying up meant that I'd hear less about race in general I'd consider it. There are actual racial issues that get lost in the shuffle of infinite cards.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:04 am    Post subject:

the association wrote:
Yes, I read the quoted post. Your point isn't clear (to me, at least), but it's also factually incorrect in any event. Over 1/3 of the 120,000 (or less) moved to internment camps in the 1940s were not even U.S. citizens, so the Japanese American clarification is off the mark. And further "clarifying the point" re: reparations in perpetuity isn't a helpful distortion because I've never seen anyone suggest that such a program is what's been sought by those whose lives have been and continue to be adversely affected to this very day by the residue of slavery. The concept of reparations has never been argued (to my knowledge) to include anything beyond a one-time restoration of deprived value or opportunity.

Regardless, the seriousness of the topic doesn't lend itself well to your tried-and-true ridicule of "political correctness" ... again, we're talking about 250 - 350 years of dehumanizing, unfathomable abuse inflicted on 20 - 25 million humans through no fault of their own. Unless your forebears (or mine) suffered under slavery in America, it's just one of those "shut the (bleep) up" topics when it comes to what's right and what's wrong ...


How is it off the mark? Nearly 70 percent of those interned were U.S. citizens. So the classification of the group as Japanese citizens is, ironically, exactly the type of false classification that resulted in internment of those U.S. citizens!

Just curious. Who, or what entity, shall decide what the reparations are and to what degree they are sufficient such that once made, they never need to be re-made again?

The U.S. government?
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:31 am    Post subject:

fansincemagic wrote:
If paying up meant that I'd hear less about race in general I'd consider it. There are actual racial issues that get lost in the shuffle of infinite cards.


I think there is confusion as to just what point along the curve the United States is in regards to reparations. Reparations aren't an idea to be contemplated as that's already occurred. The United States government contemplated the issue of reparations in 1864. It then entered into negotiations with 20 Negro leaders, led by Garrison Frazier, who were selected to represent the transitioning of the former slaves into the realm of Free people in January of 1865. During the negotiations, the United States government asked 12 specific questions to the Negro leaders regarding their preferences for how the transitioning should occur. Then the following occured:

Quote:
Their chosen leader and spokesman was a Baptist minister named Garrison Frazier, aged 67, who had been born in Granville, N.C., and was a slave until 1857, “when he purchased freedom for himself and wife for $1000 in gold and silver,” It was he who bore the responsibility of answering the 12 questions that Sherman and Stanton put to the group. The stakes for the future of the Negro people were high.

And Frazier and his brothers did not disappoint. What did they tell Sherman and Stanton that the Negro most wanted? Land! “The way we can best take care of ourselves,” Rev. Frazier began his answer to the crucial third question, “is to have land, and turn it and till it by our own labor … and we can soon maintain ourselves and have something to spare … We want to be placed on land until we are able to buy it and make it our own.” And when asked next where the freed slaves “would rather live — whether scattered among the whites or in colonies by themselves,” without missing a beat, Brother Frazier (as the transcript calls him) replied that “I would prefer to live by ourselves, for there is a prejudice against us in the South that will take years to get over … ” When polled individually around the table, all but one — James Lynch, 26, the man who had moved south from Baltimore — said that they agreed with Frazier. Four days later, Sherman issued Special Field Order No. 15, after President Lincoln approved it.



After President Lincoln agreed to the outcome of the negotiations, the United States government put reparations into motion. More than 40,000 newly free people were enrolled in the transitioning program when President Lincoln was killed. Then the United States government stopped living up to it's negotiated obligations.

So it should be clear, reparations were considered, negotiated, agreed upon, and enacted by the United States government. Due wholly to to voluntary act of the United States government to renege on it's agreed upon and enacted obligations, that particular form of reparations is impossible to reconsider. If the United States government were to decide to finally make good on the obligations it's already agreed to, it would have to take another form.

There are numerous forms that could take. It could be a cash payment. It could be government provisioned mortgages to all Blacks for a set period of time to afford that segment of the population that elects to advantage themselves of the opportunity a chance to establish the original intent of the agreed upon reparations, the ability of the freed men to have the opportunity to generate wealth for themselves and pass it upon generationally. Another option would be to grant tax free status for a set period of time. Point being, there are numerous options available to the government to complete it's agreed upon obligations. But in this particular instance, the United States government doesn't mind being a deadbeat that reneges upon an already negotiated agreement.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:25 am    Post subject:

http://cfed.org/policy/federal/The_Ever_Growing_Gap-CFED_IPS-Final.pdf

A study of racial wealth gap, just for info
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:07 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
fansincemagic wrote:
If paying up meant that I'd hear less about race in general I'd consider it. There are actual racial issues that get lost in the shuffle of infinite cards.


I think there is confusion as to just what point along the curve the United States is in regards to reparations. Reparations aren't an idea to be contemplated as that's already occurred. The United States government contemplated the issue of reparations in 1864. It then entered into negotiations with 20 Negro leaders, led by Garrison Frazier, who were selected to represent the transitioning of the former slaves into the realm of Free people in January of 1865. During the negotiations, the United States government asked 12 specific questions to the Negro leaders regarding their preferences for how the transitioning should occur. Then the following occured:

Quote:
Their chosen leader and spokesman was a Baptist minister named Garrison Frazier, aged 67, who had been born in Granville, N.C., and was a slave until 1857, “when he purchased freedom for himself and wife for $1000 in gold and silver,” It was he who bore the responsibility of answering the 12 questions that Sherman and Stanton put to the group. The stakes for the future of the Negro people were high.

And Frazier and his brothers did not disappoint. What did they tell Sherman and Stanton that the Negro most wanted? Land! “The way we can best take care of ourselves,” Rev. Frazier began his answer to the crucial third question, “is to have land, and turn it and till it by our own labor … and we can soon maintain ourselves and have something to spare … We want to be placed on land until we are able to buy it and make it our own.” And when asked next where the freed slaves “would rather live — whether scattered among the whites or in colonies by themselves,” without missing a beat, Brother Frazier (as the transcript calls him) replied that “I would prefer to live by ourselves, for there is a prejudice against us in the South that will take years to get over … ” When polled individually around the table, all but one — James Lynch, 26, the man who had moved south from Baltimore — said that they agreed with Frazier. Four days later, Sherman issued Special Field Order No. 15, after President Lincoln approved it.



After President Lincoln agreed to the outcome of the negotiations, the United States government put reparations into motion. More than 40,000 newly free people were enrolled in the transitioning program when President Lincoln was killed. Then the United States government stopped living up to it's negotiated obligations.

So it should be clear, reparations were considered, negotiated, agreed upon, and enacted by the United States government. Due wholly to to voluntary act of the United States government to renege on it's agreed upon and enacted obligations, that particular form of reparations is impossible to reconsider. If the United States government were to decide to finally make good on the obligations it's already agreed to, it would have to take another form.

There are numerous forms that could take. It could be a cash payment. It could be government provisioned mortgages to all Blacks for a set period of time to afford that segment of the population that elects to advantage themselves of the opportunity a chance to establish the original intent of the agreed upon reparations, the ability of the freed men to have the opportunity to generate wealth for themselves and pass it upon generationally. Another option would be to grant tax free status for a set period of time. Point being, there are numerous options available to the government to complete it's agreed upon obligations. But in this particular instance, the United States government doesn't mind being a deadbeat that reneges upon an already negotiated agreement.


Wouldn't be the first time the federal government reneged on an agreement.

There were nearly 600,000 northern casualties that helped free those men, women, and children as well. With how much time has passed, it's probably best to call it even, unless we want racial relations to go even further down the drain in this country.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:56 pm    Post subject:

999 wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
I'm part Native. I'm waiting for you deadbeats to send me rent checks.


I heard the Native American halocaust was worst than the Jewish halocaust of the 1940's.


Kind of OT, but they don't know who the "native" Americans were. Many think they were the Mayans who settled in Georgia and Florida.

On topic, my family never owned slaves so I will pass on paying anyone anything. They were straight out of Prussia.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 12:13 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Natasha Marin is a Seattle artist who noticed a divide on her Facebook feed: Her black friends were angry and frustrated about police shootings of black men, and her white friends were saying they wanted to help but didn’t know what to do.

“There is a discrepancy in the lives of people of color and white-identified people in the United States,” Marin said.

Marin put together the Reparations site and accompanying Facebook event. It was a place where people of color could post needs, and white people could help meet those needs.

Offers and requests started pouring in almost immediately. Many of the requests were serious, tangible needs: money for groceries, a place to live, tuition assistance, car repairs. People responded with donations or posted something else they could provide: resumé editing, dog-sitting, rides around town.

These were two of many positive exchanges that have taken place on the site. But like many online activities, particularly concerning race, trolls emerged.

Natasha Marin and her network created a way to deal with them: the Troll Slaying Brigade. For every negative comment received, the Brigade donates a dollar to person of color who has made a request.

“Now the trolls are on our side, and the trolls have actually raised more money than had been raised prior,” Marin said.



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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Man, what would they do without dog sitting services?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/01/pf/college/georgetown-university-slave-descendants-admissions/index.html
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 9:25 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/01/pf/college/georgetown-university-slave-descendants-admissions/index.html


Good on them.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2016 1:25 pm    Post subject:

UN recommendation

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=17000&LangID=E

The Working Group reiterates the following recommendation made after its visit to the United States in 2010:

- Establish a national human rights commission, in accordance with the Paris Principles. The Government should establish within this body a specific division to monitor the human rights of African Americans.

- In addition to the above, the Working Group urges the Government of the United States to consider the ratification of the core international human rights treaties to which the United States is still not a party, with a view to remove any gaps in the protection and full enjoyment of rights therein. It also encourages the USA to ratify regional human rights treaties as well as review reservations related to the treaties it has signed or ratified.

- Federal and state laws should be adopted incorporating the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights and other international human rights treaties.

- There is a profound need to acknowledge that the transatlantic slave trade was a crime against humanity and among the major sources and manifestations of racism, racial discrimination, xenophobia and related intolerance and that Africans and people of African descent were victims of these acts and continue to be victims of their consequences. Past injustices and crimes against African Americans need to be addressed with reparatory justice.

- Monuments, memorials and markers should be erected to facilitate this important public dialogue. Education must be accompanied by acts of reconciliation, which are needed to overcome acts of racial bigotry and legacies of injustice. To accelerate the process of desegregation, federal and state legislation should be passed recognizing the experience of enslavement.

- During the International Decade for People of African Descent public forums or hearings should be held with African American communities to enter into a constructive and open dialogue in which organizations, social movements have access to share experiences and to engage with the policy makers and institutions and local state and federal government on ways to address the current crisis.

- We encourage congress to pass the H.R. 40 -Commission to Study Reparation Proposals for African Americans Act - Establishes the Commission to examine slavery and discrimination in the colonies and the United States from 1619 to the present and recommend appropriate remedies.

- We encourage the US government to elaborate a National Action Plan for Racial Justice to fully implement the International Convention on the Elimination of all forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD) and comprehensively address racism affecting African Americans.

- The Government should increase engagement with human rights organizations and civil society at large with an aim to implement the Universal Periodic Review recommendations made to and accepted by the USA.

- We urge the Government to ensure that recent policies undertaken to address racial disparities will be further implemented at the federal and state levels.

- The Working Group urges Congress to expedite the passing of all pending criminal justice reform bills including the End Racial Profiling Act, the Second Chance Reauthorization Act and welcomes the bi-partisan support for the Sentencing Reform and Corrections Act, which among other things proposes to drastically reduce the use of mandatory minimum sentencing.

- In imposing the sentence, the welfare of the family of the accused should be taken into account, with particular attention to the best interests of the child.

- Appropriate measures should be adopted to prevent excessive bail. Alternatives to detention should also be explored.

- Community policing strategies should be developed to give the community control of the police which are there to protect and serve them. It is suggested to have a board that would elect police officers they want playing this important role in their communities.

- Before non-payment of a court fine or fee is treated as civil contempt of court charge it must first be determined whether the individual has the ability to pay. Imprisonment should not be offered as a way of paying off the debt. If the debt cannot be paid the fee should not be levied.

- We also recommend that part of the prison reforms processes and policies include specific policies to address increasing rate of incarceration of African- American women.

- Solitary confinement should be banned absolutely for being in violation of international human rights law standards particularly those found in the United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and the United Nations Standard Minimum Rules on the Treatment of Prisoners.

- The Working Group recommends to the Government to allow independent monitoring of places of detention in the United States and in this connection consider inviting Special Rapporteur on Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, and the Working Group on Arbitrary Detention.

- International human rights standards should be observed in the criminal justice system. We recommend the abolition of the death penalty throughout the United States.

- The Working Group calls upon the Government to ensure that all states repeal laws that restrict the voting rights. In particular it urges reinstatement of voting rights of persons convicted of felony who have completed their sentences.

- Targeted measures should be developed with the community to raise awareness and reduce crimes against LGBTQI community, in particular against transgendered women.

- The Working group recommends improving reporting of violations involving the excessive use of force and extra-judicial killings by the police, and ensure that reported cases of excessive use of force are independently investigated; that alleged perpetrators are prosecuted and, if convicted, punished with appropriate sanctions; that investigations are re-opened when new evidence becomes available; and that victims or their families are provided with remedy.

- The Working Group recommends to the Government to step up its efforts to prevent excessive use of force by law enforcement officials by ensuring compliance with the 1990 Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials.

- Security policies in schools should be revisited. Policing in schools should be abolished.

- Misdemeanour laws should be repealed, such as the misdemeanour law in South Carolina where school disturbance constitutes a misdemeanour.

- The use of restraint and seclusion in schools should be prohibited. Early counselling should be given to students with mental health issues. Special attention and protection must be given to students with autism, ADHD and other similar disabilities.

- We recommend the Government develop guidelines on how to ensure school discipline policies and practices are in compliance with international human rights standards. Positive Behavior Intervention and Support (PBIS) and restorative practices in school discipline should be used for reducing disciplinary incidents and improving learning in schools.

- Males should be separated from females in detention. Younger prisoners should be separated from adults. Alternatives to imprisonment for youth such as intervention and diversion should be explored.

- The Working Group recommends that health policies and programmes should place particular priority on access to quality and affordable health care with targeted goals to reduce maternal mortality of African American women.

- Consistently, the school curriculum in each state should reflect appropriately the history of the slave trade.

- The Department of Education should study zero tolerance policies and its disparate impact on African American students. A Taskforce should be created to specifically focus on realigning and reengaging students who have been dismissed from educational institutions as part of a zero tolerance policy.

- The Working Group recommends upholding the right to adequate standards of living including the right to food, right to water and the right to adequate housing. The Government should immediately halt the demolition of public housing without guaranteeing replacement units. All such activities must be undertaken only through prior and informed consent and participation of the communities affected.
-
- The Working Group urges the government to strengthen the implementation of 
Executive Order 12898 including through the allocation of adequate resources.
- The US government should undertake a review of policies to improve protection and ensure environmental justice is provided.

- The Working Group encourages the government to undertake impact-oriented activities in the framework of the International Decade for People of African Descent (2015-2024).

The Working Group welcomes the cooperation and engagement with the international human rights system to combat racial discrimination. We hope that our report will support the Government in this process and we express our willingness to assist in this important endeavour.

- See more at: http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=17000&LangID=E#sthash.ELhcCe7s.rcP8hF1j.dpuf
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