View previous topic :: View next topic |
Who rebuilt better. |
Phil |
|
20% |
[ 19 ] |
Jim |
|
79% |
[ 75 ] |
|
Total Votes : 94 |
|
Author |
Message |
999 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 20267
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:40 pm Post subject: Who is doing a better job at rebuilding. Phil Jackson? or Jim Buss? |
|
|
the Knicks rebuilt with a decent squad to take on Cleveland the same can't be said about the lakers and their west coast rival. I only bring this up given the that lakers and the Knicks were at the same pathetic spot when the rebuilds started it just looks like Phil is way ahead |
|
Back to top |
|
|
singlecamVTEC Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009 Posts: 1473
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IMO, Jim. That's with homer shades off.
NYK has the star names though, but in the long run.. Lakers have a higher ceiling. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
tox Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Nov 2015 Posts: 17880
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:50 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Knicks started off in probably the worse spot in terms of future assets go. I don't think Phil has done a particularly good job---nothing worth pining over---but I don't think he's been particularly bad.
I'd rather be the Lakers, but for the actual topic, I reserve judgment for now. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Lakers95 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Dec 2011 Posts: 20880 Location: Southern California
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd pick Jim/Laker FO. The Knicks are probably going to have a better record than us this upcoming season(them playing in the east plays a big role in it), but I feel like we're much better off long term.
I don't see the Knicks being much of a challenge to the Cavs at all. Rose and Noah are huge question marks, Porzingis is only going to be in his second year, and Carmelo's aging. The rest of their roster, outside of Lee and Thomas, is nothing really special either. Hornacek was a good hire.
Both teams have some cap flexibility going forward as well. I think we're ahead because we have more pieces to develop for the future.
Last edited by Lakers95 on Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:57 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Here is the Knicks' depth chart:
http://www.espn.com/nba/team/depth/_/name/ny/new-york-knicks
You think that this is a successful rebuild? I guess if all of those guys stay healthy, they could make the playoffs or maybe even contend for a top 4 seed. Big if, though. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46684
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers need 1 star piece to contend, Can Jim get the Lakers there missing piece? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
999 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Oct 2006 Posts: 20267
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Inspector Gadget wrote: | Lakers need 1 star piece to contend, Can Jim get the Lakers there missing piece? |
Russel resigned in Oklahoma.
Who else is left |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46684
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
999 wrote: | Inspector Gadget wrote: | Lakers need 1 star piece to contend, Can Jim get the Lakers there missing piece? |
Russel resigned in Oklahoma.
Who else is left |
Blake Griffin? Kevin Love? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
JUST-MING Retired Number
Joined: 23 Jun 2005 Posts: 43990
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Phil has Hall of Famers on his roster and, in the East, as we saw with Toronto, they do not need much to contend. Jim took the easier route of bottoming out for lottery picks. The trouble is only a couple of teams in history won without Hall of Famers, the '04 Pistons being a recent example and aside from Prince, their starters were acquired via trade not through the draft. I find it hard to praise Jim for tanking, so in that respect, Phil has done a better job... |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46684
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JUST-MING wrote: | Phil has Hall of Famers on his roster and, in the East, as we saw with Toronto, they do not need much to contend. Jim took the easier route of bottoming out for lottery picks. The trouble is only a couple of teams in history won without Hall of Famers, the '04 Pistons being a recent example and aside from Prince, their starters were acquired via trade not through the draft. I find it hard to praise Jim for tanking, so in that respect, Phil has done a better job... |
So you are praising Phil for trading for a injury prone player and giving Noah 100+ money in contract? There draft pick of Porgz was very well animated, but the Knicks can't and won't win a championship so Jim is the easier choice and you know that.
Lakers are very very close to contending. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
kikanga Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29353 Location: La La Land
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kinda feel like our rebuild is starting this upcoming season. And NY isn't rebuilding. I'd describe what Phil is doing as retooling. _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
Back to top |
|
|
lakersboy Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006 Posts: 8518 Location: Left coast
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I already Like Zubac as much as Porzingis, and I expect I may like him more. I think old Noah is garbage. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
The Logo Star Player
Joined: 25 Jul 2013 Posts: 9577 Location: Salem, OR
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't call grabbing two injury prone stars and banking on their success to be a good job. The Knicks just scream as a tread mill team, good enough to make the playoffs, but not anywhere good enough to beat Lebron. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think Jim is sexier. No homer. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46684
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The Logo wrote: | I wouldn't call grabbing two injury prone stars and banking on their success to be a good job. The Knicks just scream as a tread mill team, good enough to make the playoffs, but not anywhere good enough to beat Lebron. |
Yeah, this poll vote should be a large gap. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Knicks will be in true rebuild when Melo is off. Right now they have one valuable piece in Porzingis and a bunch of guys who are on decline and injury prone. Phil has had two lottery seasons with worse record than when he took over. Didn't even get 2016 pick so should have at least made a playoff run in weak East. They will be in 2013 Lakers stage soon but with one piece in Porzingis.
Lakers have Dlo, Ingram, Randle and late round steals in Clarkson, Nance, Zubac. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
|
Back to top |
|
|
deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14912 Location: Earth
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Rebuild? Jimmy boy, hands down. _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Runway8 Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Posts: 22853 Location: La Jolla, San Diego
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Neither... My vote goes to the brainiacs in New Jersey. I think they have a bright future. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
clutchkobe Star Player
Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 1982
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
the experts would not agree |
|
Back to top |
|
|
BigBallerBrand Star Player
Joined: 23 Dec 2008 Posts: 5802 Location: LA
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lakers for the full rebuild. Phil obviously essembled a team that can get into the playoffs faster, but that is not a championship squad _________________ Billions Billions Billions |
|
Back to top |
|
|
panamaniac Franchise Player
Joined: 28 May 2011 Posts: 11239 Location: PTY
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I don't really consider what the Knicks are doing as "rebuilding". More like retooling. Keep in mind, they have a 32 y/o Melo, whom they likely think can lead them to a playoff run, and have surrounded him with vets who they think can resuscitate their careers. I don't exactly view them as a true contender, but I do think their ceiling is that of a ECSF team. Lakers, otoh, are better positioned for the future imo. The only true asset the Knicks have is Kristaps. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MJST Retired Number
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 26389
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think had the Knicks decided to wait on Courtney Lee and wound up signing Wade instead the poll would be a little closer. But in terms of a REBUILD I'd say Jim thus far, Phil is just retooling the Knicks into a playoff 'sorta' team with a bunch of names so he can leave on that note, which is what the Knicks always did and often wound up losing assets because of it that would have helped them had they actually bit down and rebuilt. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Batguano Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 2260
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JUST-MING wrote: | Phil has Hall of Famers on his roster and, in the East, as we saw with Toronto, they do not need much to contend. Jim took the easier route of bottoming out for lottery picks. The trouble is only a couple of teams in history won without Hall of Famers, the '04 Pistons being a recent example and aside from Prince, their starters were acquired via trade not through the draft. I find it hard to praise Jim for tanking, so in that respect, Phil has done a better job... |
The only HOF on that roster is Melo, and he was there before Phil got there.
Knicks are fools gold. Even IF DRose gets back to his MVP form, and IF Noah regains his all-star form it still might not be enough to beat the Cavs. And that's a lot of big ifs.
They have a great rebuilding piece in Porzingis. What Phil should've done is traded Melo for draft picks and young talent while his value was still high and completely committed to a rebuild. Instead he's making the same mistakes the Knicks have made since the early 2000's of acquiring over-the-hill players that will only make them mediocre enough where they're not true contenders, but not bad enough to lose enough games to keep their draft picks.
Jimbo by a mile, and it's not even close. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cthroatgtr Star Player
Joined: 21 Aug 2005 Posts: 1375
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think Phil has the same problem the Lakers did a few years back, which is try and add some talent before their superstar is done. I think Phil committed to Melo he would do that. Lakers honestly lucked into this. Two years in a row they could have lost their pick and got the #2. Lakers have drafted well (especially in the 2nd round), the one thing they do right. To say either has done better not really convinced either way. The Lakers FINALLY are committed to the rebuild but probably would have considered Westbrook or Cousins, so they are one flinch away from doing the same thing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Batguano Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 2260
|
Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
cthroatgtr wrote: | I think Phil has the same problem the Lakers did a few years back, which is try and add some talent before their superstar is done. I think Phil committed to Melo he would do that. Lakers honestly lucked into this. Two years in a row they could have lost their pick and got the #2. Lakers have drafted well (especially in the 2nd round), the one thing they do right. To say either has done better not really convinced either way. The Lakers FINALLY are committed to the rebuild but probably would have considered Westbrook or Cousins, so they are one flinch away from doing the same thing. |
So did the Warriors luck into drafting Curry, Klay, and Draymond?
What about the Thunder? Did they luck into Durant, Westbrook, and Harden?
They haven't flinched thus far, so, advantage JIMBO. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|