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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov or overestimating Zubac. Mozgov got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
Both
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov or overestimating Zubac. Mozgov got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I don't think Zubac is ready physically or in terms of skill set to play starter's minutes over 82 games. Not all of our young guys need to be rushed to the starting lineup. I'd probably go with Black before Zu if we're talking about starting. |
Yeah. People are reading a bit too much into an impressive SPL performance. Make no mistake, teams will attack Zub off PnRs. He will have to get used to NBA speed, especially under those circumstances.
Give him time. I think Zub can be our starting center in 2-3 years, precisely when Moz's deal gets closer to expiration. |
Yea mozgovs deal made a lot of sense after seeing Zubac in SL. Not ready yet but he will be in a few years and mozgov is a good guy to mentor him and fill the role in the mean time. |
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TDRock
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | TDRock wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | mirak wrote: | | You start a lot of threads. |
Really? Thanks for completely changing the subject of the thread. |
But for real tho, that's (what mirak said) what came to my mind first as well. You're posting style actually reminds me of another poster...
Anyway, yes I hope Moz has a good season. |
That's why I made this thread cause the official Mozgov thread is spewed negative crap. |
Fair enough.  |
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Wilkes52
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | Wilkes52 wrote: | I don't share the OP's presumed sense of fan obligation to broadcast sheep-like "support" for Laker players.
I hope Mozgov plays great because I want to see the Lakers succeed.
However, I don't confuse that desire and that hope with my sense of what's likely to happen, nor with my sense for the player's history, his physical condition, nor for his playing ability. We have a center who's among the league's lower third (at best) of starting centers and we're stuck with him for quite a while going forward. Doesn't make me happy. Less money, less contract span would have been far smarter.
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And landed a player that wouldn't be nearly as good as Mosgov. The FO was trying to improve the team, not maintain a bottom 2 record. And they have the money, they don't need to shop at the 99 cents store. |
Well, the team is going nowhere this season - with Mozgov or with a cheaper, lesser alternative on a shorter contract. Let's not kid ourselves that Mozgov is talented enough to be a difference maker in two, three or four years down the pike. He's not. He's Lurch, a clod, a wannabe Luc Longley with bad feet. I doubt he will be healthy enough (read: durable enough) to play well for the club for four years. Big men and bad feet are just not compatible in this game.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilkes52 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Wilkes52 wrote: | I don't share the OP's presumed sense of fan obligation to broadcast sheep-like "support" for Laker players.
I hope Mozgov plays great because I want to see the Lakers succeed.
However, I don't confuse that desire and that hope with my sense of what's likely to happen, nor with my sense for the player's history, his physical condition, nor for his playing ability. We have a center who's among the league's lower third (at best) of starting centers and we're stuck with him for quite a while going forward. Doesn't make me happy. Less money, less contract span would have been far smarter.
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And landed a player that wouldn't be nearly as good as Mosgov. The FO was trying to improve the team, not maintain a bottom 2 record. And they have the money, they don't need to shop at the 99 cents store. |
Well, the team is going nowhere this season - with Mozgov or with a cheaper, lesser alternative on a shorter contract. Let's not kid ourselves that Mozgov is talented enough to be a difference maker in two, three or four years down the pike. He's not. He's Lurch, a clod, a wannabe Luc Longley with bad feet. I doubt he will be healthy enough (read: durable enough) to play well for the club for four years. Big men and bad feet are just not compatible in this game. |
Moz has bad feet? 
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kikanga
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov or overestimating Zubac. Mozgov got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I don't think Zubac is ready physically or in terms of skill set to play starter's minutes over 82 games. Not all of our young guys need to be rushed to the starting lineup. I'd probably go with Black before Zu if we're talking about starting. |
Yeah. People are reading a bit too much into an impressive SPL performance. Make no mistake, teams will attack Zub off PnRs. He will have to get used to NBA speed, especially under those circumstances.
Give him time. I think Zub can be our starting center in 2-3 years, precisely when Moz's deal gets closer to expiration. |
Based on what I've always thought and what I've seen in GT's breakdowns. Mozgov and Zubac have the same weaknesses when guarding the pick and roll. Switches and hedges, both guys will leave the pick and roll ball handler plenty of space to hit midrange. They don't want to be blown by.
Of course Mozgov is better than Zubac. But in terms of translating into wins. I think long term, we could collect more wins giving Zubac a ton of minutes now, as opposed to the extra wins we'll collect in the short term with Mozgov. Our range is 20s-30s in terms of wins (this season) depending on which big we give minutes to IMO.
But this really isn't a debate. Mozgov will get the lion's share of minutes. And if Zubac undeniably outplays Mozgov down the road, their roles could switch.
FWIW, I think our P&R defense will be better with Randle or Nance playing small ball 5 as opposed to Mozgov or Zubac. Randle and Nance have the foot speed to perform all pick and roll coverages.
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JayLida
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Wilkes52 wrote: | I don't share the OP's presumed sense of fan obligation to broadcast sheep-like "support" for Laker players.
I hope Mozgov plays great because I want to see the Lakers succeed.
However, I don't confuse that desire and that hope with my sense of what's likely to happen, nor with my sense for the player's history, his physical condition, nor for his playing ability. We have a center who's among the league's lower third (at best) of starting centers and we're stuck with him for quite a while going forward. Doesn't make me happy. Less money, less contract span would have been far smarter. |
So basically your a fortune teller 
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Wilkes52
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| JayLida wrote: | | Wilkes52 wrote: | I don't share the OP's presumed sense of fan obligation to broadcast sheep-like "support" for Laker players.
I hope Mozgov plays great because I want to see the Lakers succeed.
However, I don't confuse that desire and that hope with my sense of what's likely to happen, nor with my sense for the player's history, his physical condition, nor for his playing ability. We have a center who's among the league's lower third (at best) of starting centers and we're stuck with him for quite a while going forward. Doesn't make me happy. Less money, less contract span would have been far smarter. |
So basically your a fortune teller |
Aren't we all.
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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| cKPayasoLoco wrote: | | Im pulling for every laker to succeed and every Fa that shuned us to fail |
Ya see if the OP had said this we could be done by now...!
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mirak
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| Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| cKPayasoLoco wrote: | | Im pulling for every laker to succeed and every Fa that shuned us to fail |
cKPayasoLoco, what is best in life?
"To crush your enemies -- See them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women!" |
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Gatekeeper
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:00 am Post subject: |
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| SocalDevin wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov. He got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I think it's possible he might actually take that starting job from Moz.. And I do believe it was a good signing, he will prove many wrong. |
Who exactly will he prove wrong?
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| Wilkes52 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Wilkes52 wrote: | I don't share the OP's presumed sense of fan obligation to broadcast sheep-like "support" for Laker players.
I hope Mozgov plays great because I want to see the Lakers succeed.
However, I don't confuse that desire and that hope with my sense of what's likely to happen, nor with my sense for the player's history, his physical condition, nor for his playing ability. We have a center who's among the league's lower third (at best) of starting centers and we're stuck with him for quite a while going forward. Doesn't make me happy. Less money, less contract span would have been far smarter.
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And landed a player that wouldn't be nearly as good as Mosgov. The FO was trying to improve the team, not maintain a bottom 2 record. And they have the money, they don't need to shop at the 99 cents store. |
Well, the team is going nowhere this season - with Mozgov or with a cheaper, lesser alternative on a shorter contract. Let's not kid ourselves that Mozgov is talented enough to be a difference maker in two, three or four years down the pike. He's not. He's Lurch, a clod, a wannabe Luc Longley with bad feet. I doubt he will be healthy enough (read: durable enough) to play well for the club for four years. Big men and bad feet are just not compatible in this game. |
You lost me after the first sentence. Who has bad feet?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | KBH wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov or overestimating Zubac. Mozgov got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I don't think Zubac is ready physically or in terms of skill set to play starter's minutes over 82 games. Not all of our young guys need to be rushed to the starting lineup. I'd probably go with Black before Zu if we're talking about starting. |
Yeah. People are reading a bit too much into an impressive SPL performance. Make no mistake, teams will attack Zub off PnRs. He will have to get used to NBA speed, especially under those circumstances.
Give him time. I think Zub can be our starting center in 2-3 years, precisely when Moz's deal gets closer to expiration. |
Based on what I've always thought and what I've seen in GT's breakdowns. Mozgov and Zubac have the same weaknesses when guarding the pick and roll. Switches and hedges, both guys will leave the pick and roll ball handler plenty of space to hit midrange. They don't want to be blown by.
Of course Mozgov is better than Zubac. But in terms of translating into wins. I think long term, we could collect more wins giving Zubac a ton of minutes now, as opposed to the extra wins we'll collect in the short term with Mozgov. Our range is 20s-30s in terms of wins (this season) depending on which big we give minutes to IMO.
But this really isn't a debate. Mozgov will get the lion's share of minutes. And if Zubac undeniably outplays Mozgov down the road, their roles could switch.
FWIW, I think our P&R defense will be better with Randle or Nance playing small ball 5 as opposed to Mozgov or Zubac. Randle and Nance have the foot speed to perform all pick and roll coverages. |
Not that Moz was a perfect FA acquisition, but I see the nice decline/rise ratio b/w Moz/Zubac. As Moz declines, Zub will be more ready to take his minutes. Zub has a ways to start over Moz right now.
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70sdude
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: |
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I recall reading - around the time the Cavs acquired him - that Mozgov had broken his right foot at age seventeen or eighteen, before coming to the USA. Though I'm leery of any huge human being ever fully recovering from a serious foot injury, TM seems to move pretty well on court for a human being carrying near 300 pounds.
That said, the incident last Winter (surgical repair of the knee on the same leg as the break)and his lack of visibility during the Finals suggests something to me about fragility of that guy. If his body holds up well enough for 30 mpg as a starter for this team, missing only small windows of a season or two through ages 30-33 (the span of his current Laker contract), then I think he'll have exceeded my expectations for him durability-wise. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Moz has played:
13-14: 82 games
14-15: 81 games
15-16: 76 games.
Last season it wasn't the result of foot injuries, but a procedure to remove a cyst in his knee and the recovery that didn't go so well.
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:32 am Post subject: |
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| 70sdude wrote: | I recall reading - around the time the Cavs acquired him - that Mozgov had broken his right foot at age seventeen or eighteen, before coming to the USA. Though I'm leery of any huge human being ever fully recovering from a serious foot injury, TM seems to move pretty well on court for a human being carrying near 300 pounds.
That said, the incident last Winter (surgical repair of the knee on the same leg as the break)and his lack of visibility during the Finals suggests something to me about fragility of that guy. If his body holds up well enough for 30 mpg as a starter for this team, missing only small windows of a season or two through ages 30-33 (the span of his current Laker contract), then I think he'll have exceeded my expectations for him durability-wise. |
Not realistic to expect a guy who has only played over 22MPG once (25MPG) to play 30MPG. He will probably end up around 23-25MPG
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NBALakerLegends
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | 70sdude wrote: | I recall reading - around the time the Cavs acquired him - that Mozgov had broken his right foot at age seventeen or eighteen, before coming to the USA. Though I'm leery of any huge human being ever fully recovering from a serious foot injury, TM seems to move pretty well on court for a human being carrying near 300 pounds.
That said, the incident last Winter (surgical repair of the knee on the same leg as the break)and his lack of visibility during the Finals suggests something to me about fragility of that guy. If his body holds up well enough for 30 mpg as a starter for this team, missing only small windows of a season or two through ages 30-33 (the span of his current Laker contract), then I think he'll have exceeded my expectations for him durability-wise. |
Not realistic to expect a guy who has only played over 22MPG once (25MPG) to play 30MPG. He will probably end up around 23-25MPG |
Which leaves half the game for the back up center spot. I could see a 18 mins distributed to Black and Zubac and maybe 6 minutes to Nance as a small ball 5 to give the Lakers their own death ball lineup. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:47 am Post subject: |
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I think Tarik will get a good amount of minutes. (15-16mpg range).
Then the remainder is split b/w Zubac/Nance/Randle.
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Fortysixn2
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| cKPayasoLoco wrote: | | Im pulling for every laker to succeed and every Fa that shuned us to fail |
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Pretty much this. If he can simply stay healthy and work with zubac over the next few years it won't be money wasted.
Reality is that Ingram and dlo won't be ready to make a playoff run for 3-4 years and won't be ready for a deep playoff run for 5-6 assuming they both turn into stars. The move really didn't hurt us and nobody else was gonna take the money so it's all good.
10-7-2 with a 1.5 blocks a game and having enough mobility to actually play defense is fine by me for Mosgov. He is just a placeholder for zubac or whatever stud FA we land when we are ready to peak anyways. |
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tox
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Re: the topic... who isn't? Even the doubters are, I'm sure. |
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unleasHell
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Moz has played:
13-14: 82 games
14-15: 81 games
15-16: 76 games.
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So he is trending downward:
16-17: 70 games
17-18: 62 games
18-19: 52 games
19-20: 41 games (end of Lakers contract)
------------------------------------------
20-21: 30 games
21-22: 21 games
22-23: 11 games
23-24: 2 games
2024: Retired...
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dont_be_a_wuss
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov. He got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I think it's possible he might actually take that starting job from Moz.. And I do believe it was a good signing, he will prove many wrong. |
Who exactly will he prove wrong? |
The 29 teams who passed in the first round because they didn't want to give him a guaranteed contract. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov. He got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I think it's possible he might actually take that starting job from Moz.. And I do believe it was a good signing, he will prove many wrong. |
Who exactly will he prove wrong? |
The 29 teams who passed in the first round because they didn't want to give him a guaranteed contract. |
You're saying Minnesota passed on drafting him 4th in the draft to take Kris Dunn because they didn't want to give Zubac a guaranteed contract and they will end up regretting this decision?
Would you trade Zubac for Kris Dunn? |
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Wino
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Posts: 9674
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| Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | dont_be_a_wuss wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | SocalDevin wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | I kinda wish we were starting Zubac instead of Mozgov this year.
Mozgov is a better player. But what is the win difference really?
Instead of 30-35 wins starting Moz, we win 25-30 starting Zubac?
I dunno. Maybe I'm underestimating Mozgov. He got that fat paycheck, so it's a moot point. No matter what, he'll be getting the lion's share of minutes at C. |
I think it's possible he might actually take that starting job from Moz.. And I do believe it was a good signing, he will prove many wrong. |
Who exactly will he prove wrong? |
The 29 teams who passed in the first round because they didn't want to give him a guaranteed contract. |
You're saying Minnesota passed on drafting him 4th in the draft to take Kris Dunn because they didn't want to give Zubac a guaranteed contract and they will end up regretting this decision?
Would you trade Zubac for Kris Dunn? |
Heeelllllll NOOOOOO!! Zublocka gonna be better than Dunn, he gonna be better than the Dream or Moses!!! He's going to become the NEXT great Laker center to rival Wilt, Shaq and Kareem!!!!
IN the end, he gonna be better than Magic and Kobe!!!
Hey, quit bogarting the bong man and Dave's not here!!!!
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