does randle really need to be draymond greene?
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paolomagma
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:13 am    Post subject:

Darth Los Angeles wrote:
I'd be happy if he developed into something similar to Kenyon Martin and Boris Diaw.


Those two are complete opposites of each other.
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:16 am    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
I'd be happy if he developed into something similar to Kenyon Martin and Boris Diaw.


Those two are complete opposites of each other.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject:

Darth Los Angeles wrote:
paolomagma wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
I'd be happy if he developed into something similar to Kenyon Martin and Boris Diaw.


Those two are complete opposites of each other.

If you mean something between Kenyon Martin and Boris Diaw then you're not being specific. Those two have literally no skill in common.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:19 pm    Post subject:

Guess this thread is asking if Julius needs to develop into an all league defender in order to have value? No, he doesn't. He has the profile of a late lottery pick - enough talent to make it in the league, but not enough skill.

Julius is a poor shooter, a bad finisher around the rim and generally out of control on the offensive end. He has slow feet and bad instincts defensively and too short of a wingspan to makeup for his slow feet.

Positives are that he has great rebounding instincts, has a high motor, is very athletic and seems like a hard working high character guy.

Will he ever be an allstar? No
Will be ever make an all NBA team? No

since his defensive upside is limited by his arm length, he needs to develop his midrange game and he will have a nice 15-10 career. He's definitely good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship team. Draymond is the 2nd best and just a better player than Julius will.ever be.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:41 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Guess this thread is asking if Julius needs to develop into an all league defender in order to have value? No, he doesn't. He has the profile of a late lottery pick - enough talent to make it in the league, but not enough skill.

Julius is a poor shooter, a bad finisher around the rim and generally out of control on the offensive end. He has slow feet and bad instincts defensively and too short of a wingspan to makeup for his slow feet.

Positives are that he has great rebounding instincts, has a high motor, is very athletic and seems like a hard working high character guy.

Will he ever be an allstar? No
Will be ever make an all NBA team? No

since his defensive upside is limited by his arm length, he needs to develop his midrange game and he will have a nice 15-10 career. He's definitely good enough to be the 3rd or 4th best player on a championship team. Draymond is the 2nd best and just a better player than Julius will.ever be.


Julius has quick feet.
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Lakers_Jester
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 10:50 am    Post subject:

Well he did get that triple double that one game.
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waterman40
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 1:51 am    Post subject:

Randle still has time to develop, so we don't know really how good or how average he is going to be.

Randle might end up being sort of a Kurt Rambis player, hard nosed defensive player, a little undersized, but fit well with the Showtime Lakers, getting loose balls, rebounding, finishing on the break. What people didn't realize until he left was that Kurt was a money shot on the midrange game too.

I think as far as a defensive player, Randle has shown he can board, and I see him being used in matchups to try and deny PF, C, and some SF players from driving to the basket, then boxing out and either getting the board or getting back quickly in transition offense. If he can pass well out of a motion offense, he might add a Blake Griffin like dimension to his game.

Without a better outside shot, Randal will not be a great player, but if he can finish better at the rim, become a good free throw shooter and at least develop some good spots where he can shoot from consistently, he can become at least a good player.

The thing is, Nance is in the same race, we will see who does better in Luke's game plan this upcoming season.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 4:58 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
2019 wrote:
there are many many mannny things he can learn from Draymond but "need" to be him? No. Julius is actually far more gifted than Dray


Far more gifted than Dray? If he is, it's only physically. Dray, and for that matter Curry & Thompson, are extremely intelligent players. It's the main reason we need to stop comparing the two. Jules simply does not have Greene's feel for the game...at least I don't see it and don't expect to.

He's got to find, create, and all that, his own game. His best course is taking elements from DG's game, and maximizing his physical gifts by utilizing them for whatever the team needs most.


Randle's first year dominated Green's first year. No doubt about that. Comparing a rookie with a guy close to his prime is really a dumb thing to do.


Amen. Why is this comparison even attempted to be made?
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BynumForThree
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:44 am    Post subject:

If Randle develops a mid-range jumper he can be a poor man's Blake Griffin.

That's probably a low-end starter/high-end bench player type upside.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:08 pm    Post subject:

BynumForThree wrote:
If Randle develops a mid-range jumper he can be a poor man's Blake Griffin.

That's probably a low-end starter/high-end bench player type upside.


If Randle becomes a solid 10/10 starter with good defense, we will live with that.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:44 pm    Post subject:

Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:04 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.


Great post.
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Gomur
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:00 am    Post subject:

Been hearing it all summer but still surprised at how critical people are of Julius, especially after his first (real) year under his belt.

People talking trade or waxing philosophic like his skills and tendencies are set in stone. Julius is one of the exciting players to watch this year IMO, seeing how he adapts and changes with the new system/players. Not to mention his own personal growth.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:22 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.


I set a pretty low bar granted - I have some concern if Randle has the mojo to play in a more structured system. But if he can do the basics well, without being a star, I think we can live with that - But 10/10 is not going to get you a max contract or a Clarkson contract, or convince the Lakers they have the right guy going forward as our long term PF starter...

15/12/3 with a decent jumper and at least average PF defense? I think we would say he was worth the 7th pick in the draft. That would be a solid win - I'd say that would make him basically even with Clarkson as far as talent and production. 18/12? Now we are basically talking prime Lamar or Gasol territory, that's a max contract player.

I hope he can do it, aside from Brown, who I think is gone after this year if he doesn't improve; Randle is the young guy I have most concern with. All the others - Clarkson, Russell, Ingram, and possibly Zubac and Nance I think are fine at this stage. The guy with the most to lose is Randle. If he goes Nick Young in his attitude and hasn't worked hard this summer, he may not reach the high hopes we all want him to attain.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 2:10 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.


I think he could average 15/10/3 if he got over 30 minutes per game but its not a question of statistics. Its a question of whether he is helping the team win games. He has to be dependable. I don't want him to be a "check my stats" kind of guy while we suck. There are countless guys in the NBA that put up good stats but really don't help their team play its best or are a good fit. Ask Luke Walton about David Lee and Monta Ellis. They had great stats. If I remember right David Lee was around 18/10. Hopefully Randle can get better while understanding what he needs to do to make the team better.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:14 am    Post subject:

defense wrote:
MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.


I think he could average 15/10/3 if he got over 30 minutes per game but its not a question of statistics. Its a question of whether he is helping the team win games. He has to be dependable. I don't want him to be a "check my stats" kind of guy while we suck. There are countless guys in the NBA that put up good stats but really don't help their team play its best or are a good fit. Ask Luke Walton about David Lee and Monta Ellis. They had great stats. If I remember right David Lee was around 18/10. Hopefully Randle can get better while understanding what he needs to do to make the team better.


I think where you're getting at is he has to not be a net negative on defense. Guys like David Lee, Al Jefferson put up some phenomenal offensive statistics during some years (20/10) but they also gave up just as much, if not more on the defensive end. As it currently appears, Okafor may be headed in that trajectory if he does not develop rim protecting properties, as he can't be played out of position due to mobility woes.

Don't even get me started on Lou Williams. Someone said he was the David Lee of guards and that's so ridiculously true.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:26 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.



Yep, you nail it. It's beyond me why some need Randle to be anything other than the best Randle he can be in Luke's new system.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:31 am    Post subject:

If saying Jules should look to be a good defender, passer, 3 point shooter, and good ball handler is somehow considered a pejorative I think we've become way too sensitive.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:47 am    Post subject:

The thing about Randle is that every story you hear about the guy will tout how good of a listener he is but as well as that how hard he works.

He seems and was shown to be the type of player that will do whatever is necessary to help his team win or what the coach asks him to do, and will try his best to master that. Kobe has said as much of him that he is a guy that wants to be great and near guaranteed that the next season Julius would have 3-4 things added to his game because he sees how hard he not only works at it but how badly he wants it.

I think Julius has the mentality/work ethic/talent to be all these things, it's just a matter of time on the basketball court in a live game to perfect them against that competition and against that pressure.

Stuff like Summer League I think helps Randle, and he seems to really REALLY love the way Luke handles practice as well as their coaching staff.

The Lakers have also brought in GREAT development talent, and a coach in Luke that was able to get to Draymond Green, and Randle and Draymond in terms of personality couldn't be more different. Randle is an introvert whose biggest emotion he shows is either when his team wins or whenever he sees his mom. Other than that you really don't see him broadcast or out too much. He isn't a social media guy, the trash he talks is on the court, he really doesn't look for trouble or to get into it.

So with Randle the only thing he needs guidance on for the most part is what the team requires of him on the court. When you are a player that can do what Randle can do you need direction or your game is often all over the place.

Look at a guy like Lance Stephenson.. all the talent in the world, but his mentality and his game means if he isn't in or on a team that was structured, or system he was groomed within to know precisely what he is supposed to do in the offense and to help the team win, he's very erratic and often trying to do too much 99% of the time.

That's why it worked in Indiana and nowhere else, because in Indiana he had structure, and was groomed around that style and the players around him, so he knew where his strengths were and his weaknesses and could play to them very well and the entire team benefitted as he was a perfect fit because he was groomed there.

But thrown onto other teams where he has absolutely no growth with the surrounding core, and he is asked to just "do" he often looks like he is trying to do everything, and the result isn't pretty. The unfortunate thing is, he needs time to grow with a team, but most of his stops have been one year tryouts and then another team to tryout for. He will never find his form or the craft he had in Indiana unless he has 2 years or so to grow with a team, but he's never going to get THAT kind of chance again, which is why his career will suffer and why despite his talent he is still a free agent.

Still he's the exact type of player Phil likes to "mold" into that kind of structure, so don't be surprised if he winds up on the Knicks playing for his hometown. Let's just hope he doesn't Marbury it.


Anyway. back to Julius, he will have structure and the ability to grow within the role he'll have as well as a blueprint of all the things to focus working on with this team.

He gets more pick and roll opportunities as well as pick and pop opportunities which get him wide open most of the time in an identified role? Suddenly he's working on setting harder screens, properly rolling to the basket, and working on his jumper off a screen. See what I mean? stuff like that matters a LOT.
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LakerDYnasty72
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:45 am    Post subject:

Lowest Merion wrote:
MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.


Great post.


Yep. It was, and I loved how many times the word "scary" was used.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:51 am    Post subject:

deal wrote:
MJST wrote:
Randle was 12/11/2 in an offense with no structure or direction whatsoever.

He's a 15/12/3 player in an offense with it. By his prime he MAY be a 18/12/3 player which would be pretty darn good.

An added mid range jumper and at least a 35% from the 3 percentage and he has the potential to do even better than that and that's a scary prospect.


Some of ya'll act like he was an 8/7/0.5 player last year. Nope, he was a 12/11/2 in his rookie season with no structure or direction in the offense.

That's a pretty scary prospect when you think about what his upside can be with an actual structured offense and solid coaching direction.



Yep, you nail it. It's beyond me why some need Randle to be anything other than the best Randle he can be in Luke's new system.


Because they haven't seen Randle in Luke's new system. . I had to point out that in your statement was the answer.
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 8:03 am    Post subject:

One thing I will say is that Randle's dedication to Cal's system took away some of his fluidity. What I mean by that is, Randle was a guy who usually always looked in control, from high school through his first few games in Kentucky. It was the thing that made people think he could play the 3. Something you'd scarcely hear anyone say now unfortunately.

But one thing I remember about Julius was he always looked under control back then, and the way he finished at the basket and even his handle was more fluid and less jagged. Maybe that year off really really effected him though.

Hopefully this year we see more of the fluidity he used to have.

Blue Madness Highlights



For instance, watch the movie Julius does at 1:52(overall Julius in general looks more fluid and in control, he did early on too).

Then compare it to Randle making essentially the same move last year



Less fluid and less in control, I do think that year off effected not just his game, but the fluidity in his handle. So I hope that he can get back to it, and really wish he had played the summer league this year over the Drew League, but it is what it is, I'm glad he got Team USA time and tutoring from Pop.

Structured freedom and proper coaching should do wonders for him as he has the work ethic and mentality to listen and commit to whatever the coach asks. So It's vital you have a good coach that can build a foundation, Luke appears he is trying to do that, and we've got some great player development coaches to help with the rest.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 22, 2016 5:28 am    Post subject:

paolomagma wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
paolomagma wrote:
Darth Los Angeles wrote:
I'd be happy if he developed into something similar to Kenyon Martin and Boris Diaw.


Those two are complete opposites of each other.

If you mean something between Kenyon Martin and Boris Diaw then you're not being specific. Those two have literally no skill in common.


If your only recollection of Boris Diaw is the last few years, then you'd be right.
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