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4stargeneralbulldog
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Joined: 26 Aug 2012
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 Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| marga86 wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The facts would disagree with that assessment. In 1966, 42% of African Americans in the ghetto lived in poverty. Today that figure is just a hair under 27%. That didn't happen without people "seeking out opportunity". It's the largest decrease in poverty level for any demographic from generation to generation in American history. And when more Hispanics are able to live out in the open instead of being forced to hide in the shadows due to our silly immigration rules, their poverty numbers will get better as well. But of course that's not something that get's mentioned on the TV so it's not widely known . The "Too Lazy to fend for ones self" meme is just too delicious to regurgitate and few bother to look at the facts.
American Poverty |
Again -- i speak from my personal real life experiences, not statistics. Not saying you are wrong, but some people have skewed perspectives of what "the ghetto" is like, yet they never lived in it..
There were plenty of smart people in Compton High, but how many let that opportunity go to waste? Countless.. what was it? I wouldn't be able to exactly put my finger on it -- there were a lot of moving parts.. Opportunity though, that wasnt missing. There was a debate team, plenty of AP classes, Steve Harvey donated [at the time] state of the art equipment for every SINGLE CLASSROOM which was vandalized in 2 months, plenty of teachers who cared..
I got an invite from Stanford to tour the campus, a girl under me actually got into Harvard, several were admitted into Cal the year after, etc.
My point is that opportunity is there.
I can sit here and give you my facts and what i saw/went through, but it won't hold vs "research".
The number one question i get asked by people who were raised in prominent neighborhoods is how come more people don't make it out of Compton. I think it's improved over the years, but part of it is due to the changing of the guard (1st generation to second generation, for mexicans at least), where kids actually start from kindergarden, not 7th or 8th grade like many immigrants did back in the late 80s/early 90s.
At the end of the day, everyone has a personal responsibility to try and better themselves -- not everyone will be a doctor or a lawyer, but with the hand that WE were dealt, we need to lay the groundwork for OUR kids, OUR future generations. Me sitting here crying and moaning about how unfair the system is won't do much for me, i only know one way out and it's through hard work. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I've been fortunate enough to see the fruits of my labor pay dividends.. |
Here's a sociological experiment to back up your other post where you said, "You can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
An excerpt of the article:
| Quote: | In 1985 a federal district judge took partial control over the troubled Kansas City, Missouri, School District (KCMSD) on the grounds that it was an unconstitutionally segregated district with dilapidated facilities and students who performed poorly. In an effort to bring the district into compliance with his liberal interpretation of federal law, the judge ordered the state and district to spend nearly $2 billion over the next 12 years to build new schools, integrate classrooms, and bring student test scores up to national norms.
It didn't work. When the judge, in March 1997, finally agreed to let the state stop making desegregation payments to the district after 1999, there was little to show for all the money spent. Although the students enjoyed perhaps the best school facilities in the country, the percentage of black students in the largely black district had continued to increase, black students' achievement hadn't improved at all, and the black-white achievement gap was unchanged The situation in Kansas City was both a major embarrassment and an ideological setback for supporters of increased funding for public schools. From the beginning, the designers of the district's desegregation and education plan openly touted it as a controlled experiment that, once and for all, would test two radically different philosophies of education. For decades critics of public schools had been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." Educators and advocates of public schools, on the other hand, had always responded by saying, "No one's ever tried."
In Kansas City they did try. A sympathetic federal judge invited district educators literally to "dream"--forget about cost, let their imaginations soar, put together a list of everything they might possibly need to increase the achievement of inner-city blacks--and he, using the extraordinarily broad powers granted judges in school desegregation cases, would find a way to pay for it.
By the time the judge took himself off the case in the spring of 1997, it was clear to nearly everyone, including the judge, that the experiment hadn't worked. Even so, some advocates of increased spending on public schools were still arguing that Kansas City's only problem was that it never got enough money or had enough time. But money was never the issue in Kansas City. The KCMSD got more money per pupil than any of 280 other major school districts in the country, and it got it for more than a decade. The real issues went way beyond mere funding. Unfortunately, given the current structure of public education in America, they were a lot more intractable, too. |
It's a good read, but a sobering read that money and opportunities cannot ensure that a student succeed. The sociological experiment was an abject failure. |
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lakerjoshua
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Joined: 28 Nov 2007
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Location: Bay Area
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The facts would disagree with that assessment. In 1966, 42% of African Americans in the ghetto lived in poverty. Today that figure is just a hair under 27%. That didn't happen without people "seeking out opportunity". It's the largest decrease in poverty level for any demographic from generation to generation in American history. And when more Hispanics are able to live out in the open instead of being forced to hide in the shadows due to our silly immigration rules, their poverty numbers will get better as well. But of course that's not something that get's mentioned on the TV so it's not widely known . The "Too Lazy to fend for ones self" meme is just too delicious to regurgitate and few bother to look at the facts.
American Poverty |
Again -- i speak from my personal real life experiences, not statistics. Not saying you are wrong, but some people have skewed perspectives of what "the ghetto" is like, yet they never lived in it..
There were plenty of smart people in Compton High, but how many let that opportunity go to waste? Countless.. what was it? I wouldn't be able to exactly put my finger on it -- there were a lot of moving parts.. Opportunity though, that wasnt missing. There was a debate team, plenty of AP classes, Steve Harvey donated [at the time] state of the art equipment for every SINGLE CLASSROOM which was vandalized in 2 months, plenty of teachers who cared..
I got an invite from Stanford to tour the campus, a girl under me actually got into Harvard, several were admitted into Cal the year after, etc.
My point is that opportunity is there.
I can sit here and give you my facts and what i saw/went through, but it won't hold vs "research".
The number one question i get asked by people who were raised in prominent neighborhoods is how come more people don't make it out of Compton. I think it's improved over the years, but part of it is due to the changing of the guard (1st generation to second generation, for mexicans at least), where kids actually start from kindergarden, not 7th or 8th grade like many immigrants did back in the late 80s/early 90s.
At the end of the day, everyone has a personal responsibility to try and better themselves -- not everyone will be a doctor or a lawyer, but with the hand that WE were dealt, we need to lay the groundwork for OUR kids, OUR future generations. Me sitting here crying and moaning about how unfair the system is won't do much for me, i only know one way out and it's through hard work. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I've been fortunate enough to see the fruits of my labor pay dividends.. |
Here's a sociological experiment to back up your other post where you said, "You can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
An excerpt of the article:
| Quote: | In 1985 a federal district judge took partial control over the troubled Kansas City, Missouri, School District (KCMSD) on the grounds that it was an unconstitutionally segregated district with dilapidated facilities and students who performed poorly. In an effort to bring the district into compliance with his liberal interpretation of federal law, the judge ordered the state and district to spend nearly $2 billion over the next 12 years to build new schools, integrate classrooms, and bring student test scores up to national norms.
It didn't work. When the judge, in March 1997, finally agreed to let the state stop making desegregation payments to the district after 1999, there was little to show for all the money spent. Although the students enjoyed perhaps the best school facilities in the country, the percentage of black students in the largely black district had continued to increase, black students' achievement hadn't improved at all, and the black-white achievement gap was unchanged The situation in Kansas City was both a major embarrassment and an ideological setback for supporters of increased funding for public schools. From the beginning, the designers of the district's desegregation and education plan openly touted it as a controlled experiment that, once and for all, would test two radically different philosophies of education. For decades critics of public schools had been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." Educators and advocates of public schools, on the other hand, had always responded by saying, "No one's ever tried."
In Kansas City they did try. A sympathetic federal judge invited district educators literally to "dream"--forget about cost, let their imaginations soar, put together a list of everything they might possibly need to increase the achievement of inner-city blacks--and he, using the extraordinarily broad powers granted judges in school desegregation cases, would find a way to pay for it.
By the time the judge took himself off the case in the spring of 1997, it was clear to nearly everyone, including the judge, that the experiment hadn't worked. Even so, some advocates of increased spending on public schools were still arguing that Kansas City's only problem was that it never got enough money or had enough time. But money was never the issue in Kansas City. The KCMSD got more money per pupil than any of 280 other major school districts in the country, and it got it for more than a decade. The real issues went way beyond mere funding. Unfortunately, given the current structure of public education in America, they were a lot more intractable, too. |
It's a good read, but a sobering read that money and opportunities cannot ensure that a student succeed. The sociological experiment was an abject failure. |
I grew up in Carson, just a few blocks from Compton.
The issue is not education or opportunity. It's cultural poverty. Generations of oppression creating culture. Great grandfather was hung, grandfather went to prison, dad was murdered...kid don't wanna stay in school. Rinse, repeat over decades...a century. |
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32752
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The problem is cultural, in that there are values that persist within the broad underclass that inhibit development. Recent immigrants tend not to share those values; they may live within the ghetto, but many resist the ghetto self-defeatist culture. There are no easy solutions to overcoming the ghetto culture, in that trying to change a culture is like trying to fight a forest fire with a water spray gun. There are too many negative influences within the broad underclass culture that have to be addressed, and many of those influences cannot be solved or addressed by government. Government only addresses the diseased symptoms, not the root cultural causes. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The facts would disagree with that assessment. In 1966, 42% of African Americans in the ghetto lived in poverty. Today that figure is just a hair under 27%. That didn't happen without people "seeking out opportunity". It's the largest decrease in poverty level for any demographic from generation to generation in American history. And when more Hispanics are able to live out in the open instead of being forced to hide in the shadows due to our silly immigration rules, their poverty numbers will get better as well. But of course that's not something that get's mentioned on the TV so it's not widely known . The "Too Lazy to fend for ones self" meme is just too delicious to regurgitate and few bother to look at the facts.
American Poverty |
Again -- i speak from my personal real life experiences, not statistics. Not saying you are wrong, but some people have skewed perspectives of what "the ghetto" is like, yet they never lived in it..
There were plenty of smart people in Compton High, but how many let that opportunity go to waste? Countless.. what was it? I wouldn't be able to exactly put my finger on it -- there were a lot of moving parts.. Opportunity though, that wasnt missing. There was a debate team, plenty of AP classes, Steve Harvey donated [at the time] state of the art equipment for every SINGLE CLASSROOM which was vandalized in 2 months, plenty of teachers who cared..
I got an invite from Stanford to tour the campus, a girl under me actually got into Harvard, several were admitted into Cal the year after, etc.
My point is that opportunity is there.
I can sit here and give you my facts and what i saw/went through, but it won't hold vs "research".
The number one question i get asked by people who were raised in prominent neighborhoods is how come more people don't make it out of Compton. I think it's improved over the years, but part of it is due to the changing of the guard (1st generation to second generation, for mexicans at least), where kids actually start from kindergarden, not 7th or 8th grade like many immigrants did back in the late 80s/early 90s.
At the end of the day, everyone has a personal responsibility to try and better themselves -- not everyone will be a doctor or a lawyer, but with the hand that WE were dealt, we need to lay the groundwork for OUR kids, OUR future generations. Me sitting here crying and moaning about how unfair the system is won't do much for me, i only know one way out and it's through hard work. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I've been fortunate enough to see the fruits of my labor pay dividends.. |
Here's a sociological experiment to back up your other post where you said, "You can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
An excerpt of the article:
| Quote: | In 1985 a federal district judge took partial control over the troubled Kansas City, Missouri, School District (KCMSD) on the grounds that it was an unconstitutionally segregated district with dilapidated facilities and students who performed poorly. In an effort to bring the district into compliance with his liberal interpretation of federal law, the judge ordered the state and district to spend nearly $2 billion over the next 12 years to build new schools, integrate classrooms, and bring student test scores up to national norms.
It didn't work. When the judge, in March 1997, finally agreed to let the state stop making desegregation payments to the district after 1999, there was little to show for all the money spent. Although the students enjoyed perhaps the best school facilities in the country, the percentage of black students in the largely black district had continued to increase, black students' achievement hadn't improved at all, and the black-white achievement gap was unchanged The situation in Kansas City was both a major embarrassment and an ideological setback for supporters of increased funding for public schools. From the beginning, the designers of the district's desegregation and education plan openly touted it as a controlled experiment that, once and for all, would test two radically different philosophies of education. For decades critics of public schools had been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." Educators and advocates of public schools, on the other hand, had always responded by saying, "No one's ever tried."
In Kansas City they did try. A sympathetic federal judge invited district educators literally to "dream"--forget about cost, let their imaginations soar, put together a list of everything they might possibly need to increase the achievement of inner-city blacks--and he, using the extraordinarily broad powers granted judges in school desegregation cases, would find a way to pay for it.
By the time the judge took himself off the case in the spring of 1997, it was clear to nearly everyone, including the judge, that the experiment hadn't worked. Even so, some advocates of increased spending on public schools were still arguing that Kansas City's only problem was that it never got enough money or had enough time. But money was never the issue in Kansas City. The KCMSD got more money per pupil than any of 280 other major school districts in the country, and it got it for more than a decade. The real issues went way beyond mere funding. Unfortunately, given the current structure of public education in America, they were a lot more intractable, too. |
It's a good read, but a sobering read that money and opportunities cannot ensure that a student succeed. The sociological experiment was an abject failure. |
I grew up in Carson, just a few blocks from Compton.
The issue is not education or opportunity. It's cultural poverty. Generations of oppression creating culture. Great grandfather was hung, grandfather went to prison, dad was murdered...kid don't wanna stay in school. Rinse, repeat over decades...a century. |
Yep,and that right there is the thing that's proving toughest to overcome. Those are experiences that people didn't get from watching a movie. they lived it. Kids talked to their grandparents who spent 30 years scrubbing floors and driving a Taxicab thinking they were purchasing a home only to find out that "The Guy" that sold it to them who said he'd pay the monthly mortgage and to just give him the money since no bank would allow them a mortgage directly. then at the end of 30 years find out they don't own squat and have just been robbed over a lifetime. Then if they were successful in getting heard in court seeing the court fine the thief a few hundred bucks and then not even tell the aggrieved "Sorry".
When you're hearing these stories from your own parents, grantparents, aunts, uncles, cousins,and neighbors over and over again, it's easy to see why so many just say "screw it". It's like two cars drag racing. One has it's parachute deployed and the other does not and then someone on the sideline is looking at the race and still asks "Why didn't the car with the parachute keep up? Well that parachute just started to get folded up in the 1960's and as more and more of the parachute get's folded, the predictable happens - the other car has been catching up. But 4 centuries of parachuting isn't going to be undone in a single generation. I'd say we'd be lucky if those efforts are pretty much erased in about half of that time, which would mean about another 150 years at this point. Turns out, applying the death penalty to the crime of literacy was pretty effin effective...
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Figures, people from Chicago are typically trash. |
Really!! Our President is from Chicago. |
That is why I would never vote for him. |
Yeah . . . um . . . that's pretty moronic reasoning, especially since Obama is not from Chicago. |
He was, and continues to be, part of the Chicago machine
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The facts would disagree with that assessment. In 1966, 42% of African Americans in the ghetto lived in poverty. Today that figure is just a hair under 27%. That didn't happen without people "seeking out opportunity". It's the largest decrease in poverty level for any demographic from generation to generation in American history. And when more Hispanics are able to live out in the open instead of being forced to hide in the shadows due to our silly immigration rules, their poverty numbers will get better as well. But of course that's not something that get's mentioned on the TV so it's not widely known . The "Too Lazy to fend for ones self" meme is just too delicious to regurgitate and few bother to look at the facts.
American Poverty |
Again -- i speak from my personal real life experiences, not statistics. Not saying you are wrong, but some people have skewed perspectives of what "the ghetto" is like, yet they never lived in it..
There were plenty of smart people in Compton High, but how many let that opportunity go to waste? Countless.. what was it? I wouldn't be able to exactly put my finger on it -- there were a lot of moving parts.. Opportunity though, that wasnt missing. There was a debate team, plenty of AP classes, Steve Harvey donated [at the time] state of the art equipment for every SINGLE CLASSROOM which was vandalized in 2 months, plenty of teachers who cared..
I got an invite from Stanford to tour the campus, a girl under me actually got into Harvard, several were admitted into Cal the year after, etc.
My point is that opportunity is there.
I can sit here and give you my facts and what i saw/went through, but it won't hold vs "research".
The number one question i get asked by people who were raised in prominent neighborhoods is how come more people don't make it out of Compton. I think it's improved over the years, but part of it is due to the changing of the guard (1st generation to second generation, for mexicans at least), where kids actually start from kindergarden, not 7th or 8th grade like many immigrants did back in the late 80s/early 90s.
At the end of the day, everyone has a personal responsibility to try and better themselves -- not everyone will be a doctor or a lawyer, but with the hand that WE were dealt, we need to lay the groundwork for OUR kids, OUR future generations. Me sitting here crying and moaning about how unfair the system is won't do much for me, i only know one way out and it's through hard work. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I've been fortunate enough to see the fruits of my labor pay dividends.. |
Here's a sociological experiment to back up your other post where you said, "You can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
An excerpt of the article:
| Quote: | In 1985 a federal district judge took partial control over the troubled Kansas City, Missouri, School District (KCMSD) on the grounds that it was an unconstitutionally segregated district with dilapidated facilities and students who performed poorly. In an effort to bring the district into compliance with his liberal interpretation of federal law, the judge ordered the state and district to spend nearly $2 billion over the next 12 years to build new schools, integrate classrooms, and bring student test scores up to national norms.
It didn't work. When the judge, in March 1997, finally agreed to let the state stop making desegregation payments to the district after 1999, there was little to show for all the money spent. Although the students enjoyed perhaps the best school facilities in the country, the percentage of black students in the largely black district had continued to increase, black students' achievement hadn't improved at all, and the black-white achievement gap was unchanged The situation in Kansas City was both a major embarrassment and an ideological setback for supporters of increased funding for public schools. From the beginning, the designers of the district's desegregation and education plan openly touted it as a controlled experiment that, once and for all, would test two radically different philosophies of education. For decades critics of public schools had been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." Educators and advocates of public schools, on the other hand, had always responded by saying, "No one's ever tried."
In Kansas City they did try. A sympathetic federal judge invited district educators literally to "dream"--forget about cost, let their imaginations soar, put together a list of everything they might possibly need to increase the achievement of inner-city blacks--and he, using the extraordinarily broad powers granted judges in school desegregation cases, would find a way to pay for it.
By the time the judge took himself off the case in the spring of 1997, it was clear to nearly everyone, including the judge, that the experiment hadn't worked. Even so, some advocates of increased spending on public schools were still arguing that Kansas City's only problem was that it never got enough money or had enough time. But money was never the issue in Kansas City. The KCMSD got more money per pupil than any of 280 other major school districts in the country, and it got it for more than a decade. The real issues went way beyond mere funding. Unfortunately, given the current structure of public education in America, they were a lot more intractable, too. |
It's a good read, but a sobering read that money and opportunities cannot ensure that a student succeed. The sociological experiment was an abject failure. |
From what I remember of that study (and my memory could be fuzzy) there was a competing study where no additional money was spent on the schools, but an agreement was made between the school and parents that they parents would be hands on in their kids education. In that situation, test scores increased dramatically.
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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marga86
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Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 3442
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Compton is more Hispanic than African American nowadays, a lot of African American families left for the IE and High Desert communities. This isn't the Compton we heard about back in the gangsta rap videos back in the 80's and 90's.... |
it's been like that for 10-15 years already. When i graduated from compton high in 2004 you could start seeing the shift. |
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marga86
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Joined: 30 Jun 2008
Posts: 3442
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| Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The problem is cultural, in that there are values that persist within the broad underclass that inhibit development. Recent immigrants tend not to share those values; they may live within the ghetto, but many resist the ghetto self-defeatist culture. There are no easy solutions to overcoming the ghetto culture, in that trying to change a culture is like trying to fight a forest fire with a water spray gun. There are too many negative influences within the broad underclass culture that have to be addressed, and many of those influences cannot be solved or addressed by government. Government only addresses the diseased symptoms, not the root cultural causes. |
I can agree with this.
Recently got into a discussion with a friend that insisted on racial oppression. My personal belief is that cultural oppression plays a determining factor in how on develops as a person.
Take a mexican family for example -- you grow up thinking pick up trucks on 22s will get you all the ladies, you want to be seen as a man, so you want the ladies, you get a full time job to get said truck, before you know it 10 years elapsed and you are 30 years old with a $14/hr job.
As i mentioned before, there are an array of things that need improvement, but a lot of it ultimately rests in one's hands. Personally, i've spoken at compton high and lynwood high a few times either on career days or alumni days. I always emphasize to the kids the importance of taking education seriously and looking ahead to how today's decisions will affect their future.
I feel my social views tend to be more on the conservative side -- but i'm well aware that a lot of this kids have unique situations/obstacles that are difficult for average people to overcome.
Side note -- my dream is to start a not for profit soccer club in compton which encourages kids to do well in school while using soccer as a medium to stay focused. Currently, club soccer is out of reach for inner city kids, i'd love to see some of these kids compete at a high level. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Their daughter was sick and they needed family around to help care for her, so JoAnne and Maanaan Sabir took an unexpected detour.
They had spent years blowing past mileposts: earning advanced degrees and six-figure incomes, buying a 2,500-square foot Victorian with hardwood floors. Yet here they were, both 37, moving to a corner of town pocked by empty lots, cramming into an apartment above Ms. Sabir’s mother, in the very duplex that Ms. Sabir’s grandparents had bought six decades earlier.
Their new dwelling was in a part of the Lindsay Heights neighborhood where more than one in three families lives in poverty; gunshots were too often a part of the nighttime soundtrack. They planned to leave once their daughter, Ameera, was healthy.
But then, reminding them of why they feel at home in communities like this one, their new neighbors started frequently checking on Ameera: Is she doing O.K.? And on their son, Taj: When’s his next basketball game? Mr. Sabir’s car stalled in the middle of the street one night, and it was the young men too often stereotyped as suspicious who helped him push it home. So many welcoming black faces like their own, they thought.
“It felt like that’s where we should be,” Ms. Sabir said.
Now, two years later, Ameera, 14, is healthy. And the Sabirs have not left. They have, in fact, only strengthened their resolve to stay after a fatal police shooting last weekend led to fiery unrest that was also fueled by frustrations over race and segregation. Rooted where they are, the Sabirs point to a broad yet little explored fact of American segregation: Affluent black families, freed from the restrictions of low income, often end up living in poor and segregated communities anyway.
It is a national phenomenon challenging the popular assumption that segregation is more about class than about race, that when black families earn more money, some ideal of post-racial integration will inevitably be reached.
In fact, a New York Times analysis of 2014 census figures shows that income alone cannot explain, nor would it likely end, the segregation that has defined American cities and suburbs for generations.
The choices that black families make today are inevitably constrained by a legacy of racism that prevented their ancestors from buying quality housing and then passing down wealth that might have allowed today’s generation to move into more stable communities. And even when black households try to cross color boundaries, they are not always met with open arms: Studies have shown that white people prefer to live in communities where there are fewer black people, regardless of their income.
In many of America’s largest metropolitan areas, including New York, Chicago and Los Angeles, black families making $100,000 or more are more likely to live in poorer neighborhoods than even white households making less than $25,000. This is particularly true in areas with a long history of residential segregation, like metropolitan Milwaukee.
In one neighborhood on Milwaukee’s predominantly black north side, that means the appearance of a new 4,000-square-foot home owned by a black energy executive and her husband, who host political fund-raisers with valet parking. Nearby, a financial adviser and his wife are stuck in the starter home they bought about 10 years ago, because it lost value and they couldn’t sell it. Up the street, there’s an engineer, living with her family, who said she stayed in the city for its amenities and to send the message, “We didn’t want to run away.” |
Excellent Article Continued Here
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Aussiesuede
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | The Milwaukee Police Department said Thursday that a police officer — whose fatal shooting of a man in August set off violent unrest there — has been arrested after being accused of sexual assault while the demonstrations were ongoing.
Officer Dominique Heaggan-Brown was arrested on Wednesday night after a police investigation that ended with the Milwaukee County district attorney filing criminal charges, the department said in a statement. Heaggan-Brown, 24, was charged with five counts, including two felony counts of second-degree sexual assault.
Heaggan-Brown shot Smith on a Saturday in mid-August, prompting an eruption of violence that stretched for hours that night and into early Sunday morning. According to the complaint, the man who said he was raped told police Heaggan-Brown had picked him up at the same time that the 18-year-old was shot near the protests. The two men went to a bar, where they “sat and watched television, as coverage of the Sherman Park protests.
When they went to the bar, the complaint said the officer had “bragged about being able to do whatever [he] wanted without repercussions.” . Surveillance video shows that the men spent a little more than an hour-and-a-half drinking at the bar. In a police interview described in the complaint, the man — who was not identified — told police that he had difficulty remembering what happened after he left the bar and described waking up to being assaulted. The man told police that he tried to move away and said no, but told authorities he felt drugged and threatened.
Hospital surveillance video showed that the two men arrived at the hospital at about 4:16 a.m. and that the officer left a little more than 20 minutes later. A nurse at the hospital who attended to the man said Heaggan-Brown had told her that this man “began to act weird and unresponsive” at the bar, which is why the officer said he brought him to the hospital. The nurse also told police that the man became very agitated, yelling that he had been raped by the person who took him to the hospital.
Later that morning Heaggan-Brown sent a text message to a sergeant who had mentored him. In the text, Heaggan-Brown described having “a separate situation” and saying he had messed up “big time,” adding: “But need to handle this the most secret and right way possible.”
The sergeant later met with Heaggan-Brown and, the officer described the sex as consensual but acknowledged that the man who said he was rapede “was drunk and had ‘medical issues.’
In addition to the assault charges, Heaggan-Brown has also been charged with prostitution, a misdemeanor, and accused of offering money to two people for sex. In addition, he was charged with a felony count of taking a nude photo of someone without their consent. |
Not Just a Murderer, But Also a Rapiste
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | A former police officer for the Milwaukee Police Department has been charged with homicide in the fatal shooting of a black man over the summer.
Milwaukee County District Attorney John Chisholm charged Dominique Heaggan-Brown with first-degree reckless homicide in the on-duty shooting of Sylville Smith.
The homicide charge against Heaggan-Brown is only the second filed against an on-duty Milwaukee police officer in modern history.
The criminal complaint says Heaggan-Brown's first shot hit Smith in the arm as Smith, 23, threw a gun over a fence.
The second shot, which hit Smith in the chest, was fired after Smith tossed the gun and fell to the ground with his hands near his head.
Smith's mother, Mildred Haynes, said she is happy with the decision to file charges but thinks they should have been more severe.
"He shot him in the arm and shot him again in the chest. ... To me, he shot to kill," she said.
If convicted, Heaggan-Brown, 24, faces a maximum penalty of 60 years in prison. |
Wisconsin Jury To Take It's Turn in Trying to Convict a Cop of Murder
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerjoshua wrote: | | 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The facts would disagree with that assessment. In 1966, 42% of African Americans in the ghetto lived in poverty. Today that figure is just a hair under 27%. That didn't happen without people "seeking out opportunity". It's the largest decrease in poverty level for any demographic from generation to generation in American history. And when more Hispanics are able to live out in the open instead of being forced to hide in the shadows due to our silly immigration rules, their poverty numbers will get better as well. But of course that's not something that get's mentioned on the TV so it's not widely known . The "Too Lazy to fend for ones self" meme is just too delicious to regurgitate and few bother to look at the facts.
American Poverty |
Again -- i speak from my personal real life experiences, not statistics. Not saying you are wrong, but some people have skewed perspectives of what "the ghetto" is like, yet they never lived in it..
There were plenty of smart people in Compton High, but how many let that opportunity go to waste? Countless.. what was it? I wouldn't be able to exactly put my finger on it -- there were a lot of moving parts.. Opportunity though, that wasnt missing. There was a debate team, plenty of AP classes, Steve Harvey donated [at the time] state of the art equipment for every SINGLE CLASSROOM which was vandalized in 2 months, plenty of teachers who cared..
I got an invite from Stanford to tour the campus, a girl under me actually got into Harvard, several were admitted into Cal the year after, etc.
My point is that opportunity is there.
I can sit here and give you my facts and what i saw/went through, but it won't hold vs "research".
The number one question i get asked by people who were raised in prominent neighborhoods is how come more people don't make it out of Compton. I think it's improved over the years, but part of it is due to the changing of the guard (1st generation to second generation, for mexicans at least), where kids actually start from kindergarden, not 7th or 8th grade like many immigrants did back in the late 80s/early 90s.
At the end of the day, everyone has a personal responsibility to try and better themselves -- not everyone will be a doctor or a lawyer, but with the hand that WE were dealt, we need to lay the groundwork for OUR kids, OUR future generations. Me sitting here crying and moaning about how unfair the system is won't do much for me, i only know one way out and it's through hard work. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I've been fortunate enough to see the fruits of my labor pay dividends.. |
Here's a sociological experiment to back up your other post where you said, "You can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
An excerpt of the article:
| Quote: | In 1985 a federal district judge took partial control over the troubled Kansas City, Missouri, School District (KCMSD) on the grounds that it was an unconstitutionally segregated district with dilapidated facilities and students who performed poorly. In an effort to bring the district into compliance with his liberal interpretation of federal law, the judge ordered the state and district to spend nearly $2 billion over the next 12 years to build new schools, integrate classrooms, and bring student test scores up to national norms.
It didn't work. When the judge, in March 1997, finally agreed to let the state stop making desegregation payments to the district after 1999, there was little to show for all the money spent. Although the students enjoyed perhaps the best school facilities in the country, the percentage of black students in the largely black district had continued to increase, black students' achievement hadn't improved at all, and the black-white achievement gap was unchanged The situation in Kansas City was both a major embarrassment and an ideological setback for supporters of increased funding for public schools. From the beginning, the designers of the district's desegregation and education plan openly touted it as a controlled experiment that, once and for all, would test two radically different philosophies of education. For decades critics of public schools had been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." Educators and advocates of public schools, on the other hand, had always responded by saying, "No one's ever tried."
In Kansas City they did try. A sympathetic federal judge invited district educators literally to "dream"--forget about cost, let their imaginations soar, put together a list of everything they might possibly need to increase the achievement of inner-city blacks--and he, using the extraordinarily broad powers granted judges in school desegregation cases, would find a way to pay for it.
By the time the judge took himself off the case in the spring of 1997, it was clear to nearly everyone, including the judge, that the experiment hadn't worked. Even so, some advocates of increased spending on public schools were still arguing that Kansas City's only problem was that it never got enough money or had enough time. But money was never the issue in Kansas City. The KCMSD got more money per pupil than any of 280 other major school districts in the country, and it got it for more than a decade. The real issues went way beyond mere funding. Unfortunately, given the current structure of public education in America, they were a lot more intractable, too. |
It's a good read, but a sobering read that money and opportunities cannot ensure that a student succeed. The sociological experiment was an abject failure. |
I grew up in Carson, just a few blocks from Compton.
The issue is not education or opportunity. It's cultural poverty. Generations of oppression creating culture. Great grandfather was hung, grandfather went to prison, dad was murdered...kid don't wanna stay in school. Rinse, repeat over decades...a century. |
I'd say that the biggest issue is parental involvement and engagement.
My son goes to a top rated school. I stopped in a few times and I've looked at what they're learning. The school itself isn't really exceptional. What is exceptional is the high level of commitment from a majority of the parents. There are always parents involved in things and they take teacher suggestions seriously. |
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Reflexx
Franchise Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 11163
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| Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | marga86 wrote: | How many people here are from the inner city?
I'm seriously tired of hearing people regurgitate the same 'ish every day just because they heard it in sociology 101.
Take it from someone who came from nothing. Literally a village with less than 1000 people and no running water. Crossed the border illegally at age 5 and finally got my green card at age 14. I went through the entire compton unified school district program, elementary to highschool. Wore payless shoes until age 16 when i was finally able to go to paramount swapmeet at 5am every freaking saturday and sunday to work 12 hr shifts for $20.
You know what i did? I realized education was the only way out -- no one told me; i just realized it. Graduated 2nd in my class and got into CSUF with some nice scholarships thanks to my good grades (still had some amount via loans, which i worked to pay off during college).. I could have gone to a better school, but didnt have the means... but hey, if you ask me i tried to make the best of my situation. Now i'm a CPA making a good living.
I can tell you from experience that very few people in the ghetto seek opportunity. I'm not here to judge, just to tell you what i saw. It goes deeper than just "opportunity" -- that won't solve everything. There is a reason why they say you can take someone out the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of someone.
/endrant |
The facts would disagree with that assessment. In 1966, 42% of African Americans in the ghetto lived in poverty. Today that figure is just a hair under 27%. That didn't happen without people "seeking out opportunity". It's the largest decrease in poverty level for any demographic from generation to generation in American history. And when more Hispanics are able to live out in the open instead of being forced to hide in the shadows due to our silly immigration rules, their poverty numbers will get better as well. But of course that's not something that get's mentioned on the TV so it's not widely known . The "Too Lazy to fend for ones self" meme is just too delicious to regurgitate and few bother to look at the facts.
American Poverty |
Again -- i speak from my personal real life experiences, not statistics. Not saying you are wrong, but some people have skewed perspectives of what "the ghetto" is like, yet they never lived in it..
There were plenty of smart people in Compton High, but how many let that opportunity go to waste? Countless.. what was it? I wouldn't be able to exactly put my finger on it -- there were a lot of moving parts.. Opportunity though, that wasnt missing. There was a debate team, plenty of AP classes, Steve Harvey donated [at the time] state of the art equipment for every SINGLE CLASSROOM which was vandalized in 2 months, plenty of teachers who cared..
I got an invite from Stanford to tour the campus, a girl under me actually got into Harvard, several were admitted into Cal the year after, etc.
My point is that opportunity is there.
I can sit here and give you my facts and what i saw/went through, but it won't hold vs "research".
The number one question i get asked by people who were raised in prominent neighborhoods is how come more people don't make it out of Compton. I think it's improved over the years, but part of it is due to the changing of the guard (1st generation to second generation, for mexicans at least), where kids actually start from kindergarden, not 7th or 8th grade like many immigrants did back in the late 80s/early 90s.
At the end of the day, everyone has a personal responsibility to try and better themselves -- not everyone will be a doctor or a lawyer, but with the hand that WE were dealt, we need to lay the groundwork for OUR kids, OUR future generations. Me sitting here crying and moaning about how unfair the system is won't do much for me, i only know one way out and it's through hard work. Maybe it's not the case for everyone, but I've been fortunate enough to see the fruits of my labor pay dividends.. |
Here's a sociological experiment to back up your other post where you said, "You can take the person out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the person."
http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html
An excerpt of the article:
| Quote: | In 1985 a federal district judge took partial control over the troubled Kansas City, Missouri, School District (KCMSD) on the grounds that it was an unconstitutionally segregated district with dilapidated facilities and students who performed poorly. In an effort to bring the district into compliance with his liberal interpretation of federal law, the judge ordered the state and district to spend nearly $2 billion over the next 12 years to build new schools, integrate classrooms, and bring student test scores up to national norms.
It didn't work. When the judge, in March 1997, finally agreed to let the state stop making desegregation payments to the district after 1999, there was little to show for all the money spent. Although the students enjoyed perhaps the best school facilities in the country, the percentage of black students in the largely black district had continued to increase, black students' achievement hadn't improved at all, and the black-white achievement gap was unchanged The situation in Kansas City was both a major embarrassment and an ideological setback for supporters of increased funding for public schools. From the beginning, the designers of the district's desegregation and education plan openly touted it as a controlled experiment that, once and for all, would test two radically different philosophies of education. For decades critics of public schools had been saying, "You can't solve educational problems by throwing money at them." Educators and advocates of public schools, on the other hand, had always responded by saying, "No one's ever tried."
In Kansas City they did try. A sympathetic federal judge invited district educators literally to "dream"--forget about cost, let their imaginations soar, put together a list of everything they might possibly need to increase the achievement of inner-city blacks--and he, using the extraordinarily broad powers granted judges in school desegregation cases, would find a way to pay for it.
By the time the judge took himself off the case in the spring of 1997, it was clear to nearly everyone, including the judge, that the experiment hadn't worked. Even so, some advocates of increased spending on public schools were still arguing that Kansas City's only problem was that it never got enough money or had enough time. But money was never the issue in Kansas City. The KCMSD got more money per pupil than any of 280 other major school districts in the country, and it got it for more than a decade. The real issues went way beyond mere funding. Unfortunately, given the current structure of public education in America, they were a lot more intractable, too. |
It's a good read, but a sobering read that money and opportunities cannot ensure that a student succeed. The sociological experiment was an abject failure. |
From what I remember of that study (and my memory could be fuzzy) there was a competing study where no additional money was spent on the schools, but an agreement was made between the school and parents that they parents would be hands on in their kids education. In that situation, test scores increased dramatically. |
Bingo. |
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